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Heavy Attack Builds
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Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Ignoring the dps site, can someone that defends oalensoul come up with a reason why a dps player should get all the different tank buffs? This is really the biggest strength of oakensoul. The empower you can just get from mages guild. I can tank vet trials doing 100k dps atm.
Accesibility!
Not the noob/bad player one. The ppl with disabilities one. And for them a bit more defense is crucial. Dead players do no damage..
Microsoft bought zenimax. And MS is pretty hardcore on accessibility. They have website and believe even hotline for it.
Just count the nunber of accessivikity improvements that got added UI and otherwise since the vuyout. Not a coincidence.
Directive came from up top. Like above boss zos top. And every top level end game player quitting wont change it. Neither will thousandss of posts in this and other threads...
Company policy. Best make peace with it.
Accessibility is not a reason to upend the game balance. One also cannot make it so only disabled people use the "accessibility option" even if it was for disabilities so it would inevitably tank the game balance as we've seen since a large numbers of players will use the easy button if given the option resulting in inevitable nerfs to that accessibility option as the devs struggle to re-establish balance so they do not lose players. An imbalanced game loses players and money which goes directly against Microsoft's first priority - making its investors money. So losing players is not a viable course of action for ZoS or MS as any executive who does lose money pursuing such endeavors will be replaced and a more competent executive hired to make money since neither ZoS nor MS are charities.
That being said accessibility as ZoS uses in its communications to the players is not specific to disabilities it's specific to ease of access to content for all players. I'm also curious as to what your sources are for the claims you made in the second portion of your post, are you a Microsoft or ZoS employee, did it come from press releases as I've been a Microsoft enthusiast between PC gaming and Xbox gaming for 25 years and haven't seen such specific statements about upending game balance for accessibility policies?
upend game balance?
exagerating much? top dogs before are still top dogs.. by quite a margin..
Exactly.
The HA build is a solid second place dps build, but it’s not a “far distant” enough second place build for these particular high end players.
But when second place can still do 90% of all content and is 90% less sweaty, why would anyone other than score pushers ever attempt the "first place" LA builds?
I think you all are focusing way too much at the top. Just because LA builds have the highest DPS potential, doesn't mean anything when only 5% of players can even get there! MOST players fall in the middle, under 100k. And in that realm, HA builds are far more simple, achieving their maximum potential dps with minimal effort.
I have experience in this. I run 10+ Vet dungeons every day as Tank. At least 90% of the time, both DPS and the Healer are HA builds with Lightning Staff. There is absolutely no need to run anything else! Between the AOE cleave, the 0-80k damage, and the range, the current HA builds absolutely dominate the middle of the game.6 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Ignoring the dps site, can someone that defends oalensoul come up with a reason why a dps player should get all the different tank buffs? This is really the biggest strength of oakensoul. The empower you can just get from mages guild. I can tank vet trials doing 100k dps atm.
Accesibility!
Not the noob/bad player one. The ppl with disabilities one. And for them a bit more defense is crucial. Dead players do no damage..
Microsoft bought zenimax. And MS is pretty hardcore on accessibility. They have website and believe even hotline for it.
Just count the nunber of accessivikity improvements that got added UI and otherwise since the vuyout. Not a coincidence.
Directive came from up top. Like above boss zos top. And every top level end game player quitting wont change it. Neither will thousandss of posts in this and other threads...
Company policy. Best make peace with it.
Accessibility is not a reason to upend the game balance. One also cannot make it so only disabled people use the "accessibility option" even if it was for disabilities so it would inevitably tank the game balance as we've seen since a large numbers of players will use the easy button if given the option resulting in inevitable nerfs to that accessibility option as the devs struggle to re-establish balance so they do not lose players. An imbalanced game loses players and money which goes directly against Microsoft's first priority - making its investors money. So losing players is not a viable course of action for ZoS or MS as any executive who does lose money pursuing such endeavors will be replaced and a more competent executive hired to make money since neither ZoS nor MS are charities.
That being said accessibility as ZoS uses in its communications to the players is not specific to disabilities it's specific to ease of access to content for all players. I'm also curious as to what your sources are for the claims you made in the second portion of your post, are you a Microsoft or ZoS employee, did it come from press releases as I've been a Microsoft enthusiast between PC gaming and Xbox gaming for 25 years and haven't seen such specific statements about upending game balance for accessibility policies?
upend game balance?
exagerating much? top dogs before are still top dogs.. by quite a margin..
Exactly.
The HA build is a solid second place dps build, but it’s not a “far distant” enough second place build for these particular high end players.
But when second place can still do 90% of all content and is 90% less sweaty, why would anyone other than score pushers ever attempt the "first place" LA builds?
why should they have to?
those who want and enjoy that kinda challenge still can and will be top dogs.
No need to gatekeep the others from a lot of the content..
As for me.. I have 6 tanks and 4 healers. And tall papa be praised. The percentage of utter shite dps pugs has gone down dramatically. Soo nice!
Edited by remosito on May 1, 2023 6:16PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭Billium813 wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Ignoring the dps site, can someone that defends oalensoul come up with a reason why a dps player should get all the different tank buffs? This is really the biggest strength of oakensoul. The empower you can just get from mages guild. I can tank vet trials doing 100k dps atm.
Accesibility!
Not the noob/bad player one. The ppl with disabilities one. And for them a bit more defense is crucial. Dead players do no damage..
Microsoft bought zenimax. And MS is pretty hardcore on accessibility. They have website and believe even hotline for it.
Just count the nunber of accessivikity improvements that got added UI and otherwise since the vuyout. Not a coincidence.
Directive came from up top. Like above boss zos top. And every top level end game player quitting wont change it. Neither will thousandss of posts in this and other threads...
Company policy. Best make peace with it.
Accessibility is not a reason to upend the game balance. One also cannot make it so only disabled people use the "accessibility option" even if it was for disabilities so it would inevitably tank the game balance as we've seen since a large numbers of players will use the easy button if given the option resulting in inevitable nerfs to that accessibility option as the devs struggle to re-establish balance so they do not lose players. An imbalanced game loses players and money which goes directly against Microsoft's first priority - making its investors money. So losing players is not a viable course of action for ZoS or MS as any executive who does lose money pursuing such endeavors will be replaced and a more competent executive hired to make money since neither ZoS nor MS are charities.
That being said accessibility as ZoS uses in its communications to the players is not specific to disabilities it's specific to ease of access to content for all players. I'm also curious as to what your sources are for the claims you made in the second portion of your post, are you a Microsoft or ZoS employee, did it come from press releases as I've been a Microsoft enthusiast between PC gaming and Xbox gaming for 25 years and haven't seen such specific statements about upending game balance for accessibility policies?
upend game balance?
exagerating much? top dogs before are still top dogs.. by quite a margin..
Exactly.
The HA build is a solid second place dps build, but it’s not a “far distant” enough second place build for these particular high end players.
But when second place can still do 90% of all content and is 90% less sweaty, why would anyone other than score pushers ever attempt the "first place" LA builds?
why should they have to?
those who want and enjoy that kinda challenge still can and will be top dogs.
No need to gatekeep the others from a lot of the content..
I never said they should "have to". I want players to have reasonable options and alternatives. HA builds are are great alternative damage builds! But they are way too simple compared to their damage output and accessibility. Players in the middle of the field HAVE NO REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE.
There has to be a happy middle ground here. Players that can't reach 80k with LA builds, no matter how hard they try, can instantly get to 80k with HA builds. The accessibility to content is great, but the price being paid is that most players are just equipping HA builds and thats it. There is absolutely NO reason for them to ever do anything else. HA builds will complete almost all the content out there with minimal resource commitment. So we have almost every single player in the middle, running the same build, using the same weapon, with the same sets, doing the same actions. Its BORING!
again, you are focusing way too much on "top dogs" and who is "first place". That is incredibly narrow minded and totally dismisses 90% of all players.Edited by Billium813 on May 1, 2023 6:32PM4 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Ignoring the dps site, can someone that defends oalensoul come up with a reason why a dps player should get all the different tank buffs? This is really the biggest strength of oakensoul. The empower you can just get from mages guild. I can tank vet trials doing 100k dps atm.
Accesibility!
Not the noob/bad player one. The ppl with disabilities one. And for them a bit more defense is crucial. Dead players do no damage..
Microsoft bought zenimax. And MS is pretty hardcore on accessibility. They have website and believe even hotline for it.
Just count the nunber of accessivikity improvements that got added UI and otherwise since the vuyout. Not a coincidence.
Directive came from up top. Like above boss zos top. And every top level end game player quitting wont change it. Neither will thousandss of posts in this and other threads...
Company policy. Best make peace with it.
Accessibility is not a reason to upend the game balance. One also cannot make it so only disabled people use the "accessibility option" even if it was for disabilities so it would inevitably tank the game balance as we've seen since a large numbers of players will use the easy button if given the option resulting in inevitable nerfs to that accessibility option as the devs struggle to re-establish balance so they do not lose players. An imbalanced game loses players and money which goes directly against Microsoft's first priority - making its investors money. So losing players is not a viable course of action for ZoS or MS as any executive who does lose money pursuing such endeavors will be replaced and a more competent executive hired to make money since neither ZoS nor MS are charities.
That being said accessibility as ZoS uses in its communications to the players is not specific to disabilities it's specific to ease of access to content for all players. I'm also curious as to what your sources are for the claims you made in the second portion of your post, are you a Microsoft or ZoS employee, did it come from press releases as I've been a Microsoft enthusiast between PC gaming and Xbox gaming for 25 years and haven't seen such specific statements about upending game balance for accessibility policies?
upend game balance?
exagerating much? top dogs before are still top dogs.. by quite a margin..
Exactly.
The HA build is a solid second place dps build, but it’s not a “far distant” enough second place build for these particular high end players.
But when second place can still do 90% of all content and is 90% less sweaty, why would anyone other than score pushers ever attempt the "first place" LA builds?
why should they have to?
those who want and enjoy that kinda challenge still can and will be top dogs.
No need to gatekeep the others from a lot of the content..
I never said they should "have to". I want players to have reasonable options and alternatives. HA builds are are great alternative damage builds! But they are way too simple compared to their damage output and accessibility. Players in the middle of the field HAVE NO REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE.
There has to be a happy middle ground here. Players that can't reach 80k with LA builds, no matter how hard they try, can instantly get to 80k with HA builds. The accessibility to content is great, but the price being paid is that most players are just equipping HA builds and thats it. There is absolutely NO reason for them to ever do anything else. HA builds will complete almost all the content out there with minimal resource commitment. So we have almost every single player in the middle, running the same build, using the same weapon, with the same sets, doing the same actions. Its BORING!
again, you are focusing way too much on "top dogs" and who is "first place". That is incredibly narrow minded and totally dismisses 90% of all players.
[snip]
you talk about ppl having options and alternatives. In a HA build thread. HA builds that actually gave more people an option in the first place. You say the price is ppl are just equipping HA builds and that's it. Well before there was nothing for a lot of them.
And if ppl want to progress further they still can. They just aren't forced to by excessive gate-keeping. The "that's it" is their choice! What's it to you if they dont want to go further. Why does it bother you? I tank too. I dont care what people run as long as they pull their weight in the group. More ppl are pulling their weight dps now than ever.
And how the heck am I focused on top dogs and dismiss 90% of all players. I am most certainly the exact opposite! I care about the whatever percentage of ppl for whom HA opened up possbilities they didnt have or enjoyed before. If ever I have total disregard for the 10% top dogs that are now upset because players they consider lesser can do content that was restricted to them before.
It's you who only cares about the top percent LA weavers. Seeing how you are against HA builds. And want to go back to gatekeeping the plebs out of content by removing them. Or maybe I missed all your proposals how to give the mid more options they can actually handle and enjoy... because without proposals and wanting HA builds destroyed. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 7, 2023 6:48PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
Yazrz✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »There has to be a happy middle ground here. Players that can't reach 80k with LA builds, no matter how hard they try, can instantly get to 80k with HA builds. The accessibility to content is great, but the price being paid is that most players are just equipping HA builds and thats it. There is absolutely NO reason for them to ever do anything else. HA builds will complete almost all the content out there with minimal resource commitment. So we have almost every single player in the middle, running the same build, using the same weapon, with the same sets, doing the same actions. Its BORING!
Isn't the answer obvious? This is clearly an issue with the LA build scaling, and lack of diversity in LA builds!0 -
Schared✭✭✭
Your prolly right, they are not willing to listen to their consumers and Iam likely shouting into the void. But as Dylan Thomas said "Do not go gently into that good night, .... , Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
well.. there are plenty in the other camp that are for HA being decent... probavly way more actually..
Likely correct cuz most people just deal with their own, which is absolutely fair. I however would again mention the reduced player count and the minimal boost covid gave the game compared to other mmos. Point being - perhaps they are wrong.cleared AA once i know what iam doing0 -
Schared✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Ignoring the dps site, can someone that defends oalensoul come up with a reason why a dps player should get all the different tank buffs? This is really the biggest strength of oakensoul. The empower you can just get from mages guild. I can tank vet trials doing 100k dps atm.
Accesibility!
Not the noob/bad player one. The ppl with disabilities one. And for them a bit more defense is crucial. Dead players do no damage..
Microsoft bought zenimax. And MS is pretty hardcore on accessibility. They have website and believe even hotline for it.
Just count the nunber of accessivikity improvements that got added UI and otherwise since the vuyout. Not a coincidence.
Directive came from up top. Like above boss zos top. And every top level end game player quitting wont change it. Neither will thousandss of posts in this and other threads...
Company policy. Best make peace with it.
Accessibility is not a reason to upend the game balance. One also cannot make it so only disabled people use the "accessibility option" even if it was for disabilities so it would inevitably tank the game balance as we've seen since a large numbers of players will use the easy button if given the option resulting in inevitable nerfs to that accessibility option as the devs struggle to re-establish balance so they do not lose players. An imbalanced game loses players and money which goes directly against Microsoft's first priority - making its investors money. So losing players is not a viable course of action for ZoS or MS as any executive who does lose money pursuing such endeavors will be replaced and a more competent executive hired to make money since neither ZoS nor MS are charities.
That being said accessibility as ZoS uses in its communications to the players is not specific to disabilities it's specific to ease of access to content for all players. I'm also curious as to what your sources are for the claims you made in the second portion of your post, are you a Microsoft or ZoS employee, did it come from press releases as I've been a Microsoft enthusiast between PC gaming and Xbox gaming for 25 years and haven't seen such specific statements about upending game balance for accessibility policies?
upend game balance?
exagerating much? top dogs before are still top dogs.. by quite a margin..
Exactly.
The HA build is a solid second place dps build, but it’s not a “far distant” enough second place build for these particular high end players.
But when second place can still do 90% of all content and is 90% less sweaty, why would anyone other than score pushers ever attempt the "first place" LA builds?
I think you all are focusing way too much at the top. Just because LA builds have the highest DPS potential, doesn't mean anything when only 5% of players can even get there! MOST players fall in the middle, under 100k. And in that realm, HA builds are far more simple, achieving their maximum potential dps with minimal effort.
I have experience in this. I run 10+ Vet dungeons every day as Tank. At least 90% of the time, both DPS and the Healer are HA builds with Lightning Staff. There is absolutely no need to run anything else! Between the AOE cleave, the 0-80k damage, and the range, the current HA builds absolutely dominate the middle of the game.
You can achieve anything in old world content with about 40k dps and dlc with around 60-70k depeding on the release date. The argument here is for tuning not for removal.cleared AA once i know what iam doing0 -
Schared✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »There has to be a happy middle ground here. Players that can't reach 80k with LA builds, no matter how hard they try, can instantly get to 80k with HA builds. The accessibility to content is great, but the price being paid is that most players are just equipping HA builds and thats it. There is absolutely NO reason for them to ever do anything else. HA builds will complete almost all the content out there with minimal resource commitment. So we have almost every single player in the middle, running the same build, using the same weapon, with the same sets, doing the same actions. Its BORING!
Isn't the answer obvious? This is clearly an issue with the LA build scaling, and lack of diversity in LA builds!
Even though someone argued against it already - the combat system in eso is a happy little accident. The lack of diversity as you call it is not linked to damage its linked to procs and buffs applying with action. And as long the GCD is one second - any rotation approaching that marker or the "maximum actions possible" will likely be the best.
Most mmo's feature a far slower combat with up to 2,5s gcds like in FF. Personally I always believed that the fast combat is the nishe eso fills and the reason why it maintains player count - and now that steps are taken against it those players are lost.cleared AA once i know what iam doing2 -
Tradewind✭✭✭✭Is anyone offering rides for sale here? It doesn't matter if Zenimax nerfs the build, all we need to know is who to pay. Please step forward and state the price.
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