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Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.
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wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭So essentially, Bosmer "speed" passive should read: Burn x amount of stamina to dodge roll and go 10% faster, while every other race can burn the same amount of stamina and go 30% faster by sprinting.
Wow, this is getting worse by the day!
Technically, I think the 10% bonus would affect sprinting as well, so we'd still go faster. It's just we'd get tired more quickly because we burned way more stamina rolling than we'd have spent sprinting for 6 seconds.
Also, Orcs get a permanent 10% sprint speed buff so they'd be able to keep up with us. And they get a 12% sprint cost reduction, so after we're on the side of the road gasping for breath (cause you know, stamina race), they'd be way down the road laughing.5 -
Eiron77✭✭✭✭Proposed New Hunter's Eye description:
Level 1: Spend one skill point to reduce your available skill points by 1
Level 2: Spend one skill point to reduce your available skill points by 2
Level 3: Spend one skill point to reduce your available skill points by 3
I've been trying to tell ZOS this fact for a couple months now that Hunters Eye=3 free skill points.
But this racial description is the most accurate I've seen so far.
10 -
Eiron77✭✭✭✭More like Falmer, actually. Give me my pet chaurus and we'll go protect Tamriel from the threat of hidden stealth, wherever it may be.
Might actually have been their plan all along.2 -
Eiron77✭✭✭✭
And the rest of Hunters Eye is confirmed for Falmer here: "Although a typical Falmer may appear small and emaciated, they can be surprisingly quick on their feet and deliver quick, powerful blows." https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Falmer8 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It's certainly more accurate than what's there now.
Proposed New Hunter's Eye description:
Level 1: Spend one skill point to reduce your available skill points by 1
Level 2: Spend one skill point to reduce your available skill points by 2
Level 3: Spend one skill point to reduce your available skill points by 3
And the rest of Hunters Eye is confirmed for Falmer here: "Although a typical Falmer may appear small and emaciated, they can be surprisingly quick on their feet and deliver quick, powerful blows." https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Falmer
Told you there's no Bosmer anymore. We've found the Falmer and they is us.Edited by Cundu_Ertur on March 12, 2019 9:37PMTaking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.10 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »You can't even buy the tickets yet: those come at the end of the month.
I miss my stealthy bosmer, the 3m detection bonus simply isn't worth anything, not even in PvP where you can use much better skills to find players. By the time you see the players, they're already on top of you, so what's the point?
The dodge roll is iffy. I've been utilizing it as I do dungeons and quests in DLC, but it's not an easy thing to use in a lot of places honestly.
Everything else they've given us is okay, we can live with it, but I really wish they'd revert their change to stealth instead of giving us another useless passive.
I'm sure many of you remember when they gave us that fall damage reduction. Guess this means we can just roll ourselves off cliffs faster.
What if they increased the range?
It could be 3 miles and it would still be completely useless in PVE. And it still isn't what Bosmer are about.
Fair point4 -
Archmadios✭✭✭While I do not play a Bosmer (I’m an argonian lover) I fully support you all in your campaign. All races shol be something unique10
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Jeremiah12LGeek✭✭✭I appreciate the effort you guys made to fix this problem before it affected console players. I'm sad that you didn't succeed.
I'm uninstalling and returning ESO. My favourite characters are ruined, and I don't want to play the game anymore. I had no idea this was coming, but I doubt knowing about it would have changed anything.
This was a terrible change. It was pointless, and ruining my favourite characters accomplished nothing except making me quit the game.13 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS is not going to give you stealth back. They seem content with their plans and removing the Bosmer stealth passive was one of them.
I know you are complaining for two months now and you're mostly right but it's time to move on and get over it. I know I will get bombarded with comments how dare I saying this but this is just the truth and reality.
Get used to your new Bosmer, they were changed in a game that's under constant development and where change is inevitable, good and bad.Edited by Seraphayel on March 12, 2019 10:36PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »ZOS is not going to give you stealth back. They seem content with their plans and removing the Bosmer stealth passive was one of them.
I know you are complaining for two months now but it's time to move on and get over it. I know I will get bombarded with comments how dare I saying this but this is just the truth and reality. Get used to your new Bosmer, they changed in a game that's under constant development and where change is inevitable, good and bad.
They.
Are.
Not.
Bosmer.
Unless you can come up with ANY lore to support Bosmer being the 5th best archers in all of Tamriel, and best suited to being guards with not the slightest aptitude for thievery (which, spoiler alert, you can't do) then we are WELL within our rights to continue to agitate for this abomination to be undone. This isn't just about this one game, it is about 25 years of Elder Scrolls. This was a garbage change. It is a garbage change. It will never stop being a garbage change.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.17 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »ZOS is not going to give you stealth back. They seem content with their plans and removing the Bosmer stealth passive was one of them.
I know you are complaining for two months now and you're mostly right but it's time to move on and get over it. I know I will get bombarded with comments how dare I saying this but this is just the truth and reality.
Get used to your new Bosmer, they were changed in a game that's under constant development and where change is inevitable, good and bad.
[snip] otherwise we will continue to complain and search for new ways to get back what is ours, we will be a constant reminder of how plain and disappointing are U21 changes, not only for bosmer but for majority of races. If somebody is happy that he got extra 1k of resource from this instead of diversity and race uniqueness which was initially advertised.. well, it's ok, but that doesn't mean that everybody should just calmly accept it.
[Edit for baiting.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on March 13, 2019 12:57AM15 -
Jeremiah12LGeek✭✭✭Question:
Why the change at all?
I'm not sticking around for an answer. I have the experience to know that the appropriate response is to uninstall and move on. I've already uninstalled, and by tomorrow morning the game will have been returned, never to be played again. Congratulations Bethesda/Zenimax, I accepted your decision.
But why the decision? Was effective stealth so offensive to the developers that they had to drive players away to get rid of it?Were elves over-represented in telemetric data, so extreme measures were taken to drive elf fans away?
Rhetorical, obviously, except maybe for those sticking around to find out.14 -
Eiron77✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »ZOS is not going to give you stealth back. They seem content with their plans and removing the Bosmer stealth passive was one of them.
I know you are complaining for two months now and you're mostly right but it's time to move on and get over it. I know I will get bombarded with comments how dare I saying this but this is just the truth and reality.
Get used to your new Bosmer, they were changed in a game that's under constant development and where change is inevitable, good and bad.
[snip] You're welcome to move on from this thread. You said nothing we weren't already aware of.
And besides, console player's just got hit with the change, gotta give them their time to complain and voice their discontent to wiping Bosmers from the game.
[snip]
[Edit for bait.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on March 13, 2019 12:45AM15 -
Shardaxx✭✭✭✭✭Well I got on briefly tonight to check out the changes. The loss of the sneaking radius was noticeable in the dark brotherhood assassination daily, lost my sneak damage. Gained a little bit of stam regen, and a speed buff from rolling. Doesn't feel right to me. I'm gonna try pvp but think I'll use a token to change to a khajiit for a bit, see how that plays.PS4 - Europe - Shardaxx - Wood Elf Nightblade - Aldmeri Dominion5 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jeremiah12LGeek wrote: »Question:
Why the change at all?
I'm not sticking around for an answer. I have the experience to know that the appropriate response is to uninstall and move on. I've already uninstalled, and by tomorrow morning the game will have been returned, never to be played again. Congratulations Bethesda/Zenimax, I accepted your decision.
But why the decision? Was effective stealth so offensive to the developers that they had to drive players away to get rid of it?Were elves over-represented in telemetric data, so extreme measures were taken to drive elf fans away?
Rhetorical, obviously, except maybe for those sticking around to find out.
Well, my feeling is that it went something like this.
We got a new guy who is in charge of the races and he wanted to mold the game. To put his mark on it.
He then came up with the idea that one of the first things he will do is redo all of the racials, AND make all the races feel unique.
He had some ideas for a few races. But when it got to bosmers they basically ran out of ideas. They remembered an armor set that was not used very much and shoe horned it into the bosmers. "They live in trees but they tumble alot! Done."
And then the with the stealth racial they said; "Well Kahjits have stealth and we can't let them BOTH have that because "uniqueness", so give Bosmers stealth detect!" And promptly moved on.
They really did not give much thought into the passive because they did not WANT to put much though into the passive.
Even when it was pointed out to them in that the community probably would not like the change they said the infamous quote.
"Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1
Basically either a "We'll fix it later" hand wave response, or its a "craft some armor" response.
Nothing about the Bosmer changes feels well though out. It all feels a bit slapdash, because (I feel) it was a bit slapdash.
Even the whole argonian/bosmer resistance mix up. All of it feels like the work of people who just wanted it off their table as fast as they could.
The TLDR is; Zos wanted unique races. And since Kahjit has a stealth bonus bosmers had theirs taken away.Edited by BlueRaven on March 12, 2019 11:35PM19 -
Jeremiah12LGeek✭✭✭Jeremiah12LGeek wrote: »Question:
Why the change at all?
I'm not sticking around for an answer. I have the experience to know that the appropriate response is to uninstall and move on. I've already uninstalled, and by tomorrow morning the game will have been returned, never to be played again. Congratulations Bethesda/Zenimax, I accepted your decision.
But why the decision? Was effective stealth so offensive to the developers that they had to drive players away to get rid of it?Were elves over-represented in telemetric data, so extreme measures were taken to drive elf fans away?
Rhetorical, obviously, except maybe for those sticking around to find out.
Well, my feeling is that it went something like this.
We got a new guy who is in charge of the races and he wanted to mold the game. To put his mark on it.
He then came up with the idea that one of the first things he will do is redo all of the racials, AND make all the races feel unique.
He had some ideas for a few races. But when it got to bosmers they basically ran out of ideas. They remembered an armor set that was not used very much and shoe horned it into the bosmers. "They live in trees but they tumble alot! Done."
And then the with the stealth racial they said; "Well Kahjits have stealth and we can't let them BOTH have that because "uniqueness", so give Bosmers stealth detect!" And promptly moved on.
They really did not give much thought into the passive because they did not WANT to put much though into the passive.
Even when it was pointed out to them in that the community probably would not like the change they said the infamous quote.
"Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1
Basically either a "We'll fix it later" hand wave response, or its a "craft some armor" response.
Nothing about the Bosmer changes feels well though out. It all feels a bit slapdash, because (I feel) it was a bit slapdash.
Even the whole argonian/bosmer resistance mix up. All of it feels like the work of people who just wanted it off their table as fast as they could.
The TLDR is; Zos wanted unique races. And since Kahjit has a stealth bonus bosmers had theirs taken away.
Whether your assessment is accurate or not, it certainly does a great job of pointing out the flaws with the potential reasoning.
But at the end of the day, the question to Bethesda/Zenimax pretty much remains the same:
Why are you punishing Wood Elf fans for playing Wood Elves? What purpose does punishing your playerbase serve?15 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So essentially, Bosmer "speed" passive should read: Burn x amount of stamina to dodge roll and go 10% faster, while every other race can burn the same amount of stamina and go 30% faster by sprinting.
Wow, this is getting worse by the day!
Technically, I think the 10% bonus would affect sprinting as well, so we'd still go faster. It's just we'd get tired more quickly because we burned way more stamina rolling than we'd have spent sprinting for 6 seconds.
Yes, but if it takes you 1 or 2 seconds to roll dodge, at 10% you are still behind someone who mashed the sprint button from the get-go and is moving away at 30%. Will your 40% allow you to catch up within the six seconds? I'm not that great with mafths, so I'll just guess it's probably a wash. However, if you have more CP into Tumbling than Sprinting, you will burn more stamina than the guy who has more in Sprinting over the course of the six seconds. So there isn't any real advantage, other than the fact that you might roll out of a root, if there's one present. But the straight sprinter could be out of range while you are still within reach... etc etc.
Point being.... the roll dodge speed buff is hardly an advantage, the stealth detection is totally worthless for most people, and the loss of stealth, when it is the main reason many (if not most) people choose Bosmer in the first place: still makes it a lose/lose situation.
12 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all,
We understand that some are happy with the racial passives and how others are not. Debating the changes is completely acceptable. However, baiting and flaming other members of the community, as well as bashing, are all violations of the rules that we have in place. Moving forward, we ask that all posts be kept civil and constructive, as well as with in the rules. If there may be any question in regards to the rules, please do feel free to review them here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site6 -
ibeprofun✭✭✭I just signed up on the forums just so I could vent about this.
I've been a bosmer since I started 2 years ago, I enjoyed it. Really really disappointed about losing this passive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(I could keep going)
I do not want to play as a catman. Not interested. Do not want a tail.
This change is UNNECESSARY. [snip] WHY??!?!!??!
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 16, 2025 5:29PM18 -
Jeremiah12LGeek✭✭✭ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »Greetings all,
We understand that some are happy with the racial passives and how others are not. Debating the changes is completely acceptable. However, baiting and flaming other members of the community, as well as bashing, are all violations of the rules that we have in place. Moving forward, we ask that all posts be kept civil and constructive, as well as with in the rules. If there may be any question in regards to the rules, please do feel free to review them here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-
How does this help?
Honest question. I can't see a single reason for this post. It's not appealing for calm, it's asking people not to complain, in context. I don't understand the goal at all. Unless you really just want people to go away.5 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just signed up on the forums just so I could vent about this.
I've been a bosmer since I started 2 years ago, I enjoyed it. Really really disappointed about losing this passive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(I could keep going)
I do not want to play as a catman. Not interested. Do not want a tail.
This change is UNNECESSARY. [snip] WHY??!?!!??!
Well we have been asking this question for a while now, and all we get is crickets. So I don't know what to tell you, it's very discouraging.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 16, 2025 5:29PM6 -
anadandy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Has there been any change with the inconsistency and wonkiness of stealth detection with the latest patch? Because if we're going to be stuck with a PVP only passive, it'd be nice if it actually worked in PVP.5 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Jeremiah12LGeek wrote: »How does this help?
Honest question. I can't see a single reason for this post. It's not appealing for calm, it's asking people not to complain, in context. I don't understand the goal at all. Unless you really just want people to go away.
He's just a mod, so he can't speak to ZOS's thoughts. However there have been some posts removed due to tone. Honestly I'm not surprised since many of us feel strongly about these changes. So this post was just a warning to keep it civil.4 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jeremiah12LGeek wrote: »ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »Greetings all,
We understand that some are happy with the racial passives and how others are not. Debating the changes is completely acceptable. However, baiting and flaming other members of the community, as well as bashing, are all violations of the rules that we have in place. Moving forward, we ask that all posts be kept civil and constructive, as well as with in the rules. If there may be any question in regards to the rules, please do feel free to review them here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-
How does this help?
Honest question. I can't see a single reason for this post. It's not appealing for calm, it's asking people not to complain, in context. I don't understand the goal at all. Unless you really just want people to go away.
I haven't really seen any baiting, flaming, or bashing in this thread at all.... it seems remarkably civil, at least when compared to some of the PvP debate threads, lol.
I guess what they're asking is for us to not question the wisdom of the racial rebalancers? Because the posters have been quite respectful of each other?7 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's back?
I was very shocked when I saw the thread was closed. Crisis averted I guess. Phew!Edited by Ratzkifal on March 13, 2019 1:27AMThis Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.2 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭I've seen a few that have gotten a little heated, but nothing I would have really thought was worth deleting.
I'm pretty sure no one is questioning the wisdom of the racial rebalances. You cannot question that which does not exist.11 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well.... yeah. Apparently at the moment, as long as no one really goes ballistic again? I dunno. Either they can shut everyone down, or they can allow people who are annoyed and upset and BALLISTIC about the situation to post - or they can censor it.
Censorship is a bad decision period. Cleaning up stuff that falls into the "soap meet mouth" thing - fine. Otherwise.... bad decision.3 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jeremiah12LGeek wrote: »ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »Greetings all,
We understand that some are happy with the racial passives and how others are not. Debating the changes is completely acceptable. However, baiting and flaming other members of the community, as well as bashing, are all violations of the rules that we have in place. Moving forward, we ask that all posts be kept civil and constructive, as well as with in the rules. If there may be any question in regards to the rules, please do feel free to review them here.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-
How does this help?
Honest question. I can't see a single reason for this post. It's not appealing for calm, it's asking people not to complain, in context. I don't understand the goal at all. Unless you really just want people to go away.
I haven't really seen any baiting, flaming, or bashing in this thread at all.... it seems remarkably civil, at least when compared to some of the PvP debate threads, lol.
I guess what they're asking is for us to not question the wisdom of the racial rebalancers? Because the posters have been quite respectful of each other?
Well some of it wasn't very pretty, especially the way some people reacted towards opposing opinions. I gotta admit, reading those sentences makes my blood boil really fast, but you gotta keep calm and polite.
Even got kicked out of a guild because I was feeding into the trolls who were telling me that it's a buff and I shouldn't complain and that the removal of stealth passives does not stop me from rollplaying
Just look at the older comments that have been edited now.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.4
This discussion has been closed.