Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

wedgebert

You might be on to something.

While doing heists I'll often times lose 1:00 of time because I was spotted even though my stealth icon never stopped saying Hidden.

There must be a very stealthy person there seeing me and somehow communicating that to its friends!

Wildbloom

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Well, I probably found a place where new passive is good - VMA.
So I took together senche's and nocturnal's favor on my favorite DK WW tank, worked quite easy, even though nocturnal's favor felt like trash in half of arenas, while rocking in other half. And i'm not VMA master at all, it is usually world of pain on my magblade, and here on bosmer ww it was pretty casual, and those extra recovery and speed helps a lot.
Uptime of hunter's eye and senche was ~50% on last boss.

I second this. In vMA I dodge like a champ, and the 10% is surprisingly noticeable. I think the speed increase and stam recovery are our two big niches that make bosmer stand out, but the argument that stealth detect has no use is still valid.

What other race has a racial that's 50% useless 99% of the time? I really do miss the extra bump we had in staying hidden dearly, as sneaking just isn't the same without it. Possible, but not as fun and not nearly as easy.

max_only

OsManiaC wrote: »

First time from my side that I cannot get full rewards -- too many alerted / dropped time.

Oh I can detect the stealth mode NPCs.. if there are any..

I really would like to talk with the related person who thought this passive needs to be changed. What was he/she talking about?

It was presented by Gilliam, his boss is Brian Wheeler, and his boss is Rich Lambert iirc

There’s a form to leave feedback for the class representatives (players who Zos sometimes talks to, but their power is unknown)
Link : https://goo.gl/forms/gGFVynPcDcZn5yiH2

This is The official thread if you want to see all the Zos replies:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

Cundu_Ertur

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I wish I could do this on my Bosmer like I used to.

Your Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.

max_only wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

First time from my side that I cannot get full rewards -- too many alerted / dropped time.

Oh I can detect the stealth mode NPCs.. if there are any..

I really would like to talk with the related person who thought this passive needs to be changed. What was he/she talking about?

It was presented by Gilliam, his boss is Brian Wheeler, and his boss is Rich Lambert iirc

There’s a form to leave feedback for the class representatives (players who Zos sometimes talks to, but their power is unknown)
Link : https://goo.gl/forms/gGFVynPcDcZn5yiH2

This is The official thread if you want to see all the Zos replies comprehensive list of all ZOS replies on this subject:

FIFY

16BitForestCat

Sign me on as another player who's suuuuuuper angry that Bosmer lost their lore-friendly sneak. Five years, since beta days, I played a sneaky Dragonknight Bosmer as a main. Now all of a sudden, I'm being told, "Make them a Khajiit or forget about your fun days of sneaking on that character." If I'd wanted to make my main character a Khajiit, I'd have rolled a friggin' Khajiit for my main. I wanted a tiny sneaky elf as my main for OC canon lore reasons, so I made a tiny sneaky elf.

I've tried doing my usual murder-kill circuits on my Bosmer ever since this terrible change, and my poor main just can't do it now. I used to have tons of fun sneaking, killing, and looting, and now it's just not as enjoyable anymore. There's little more frustrating than traveling your well-loved paths and getting detected at every turn when you used to be able to slide right through. I spend more time crouching in one place waiting than I do actually engaging in the criminal content that was such a big part of my character's lore. I don't buy video games to sit around waiting for already glitchy NPC's to move away.

And now my Bosmer is less useful to other players as well--and we all know Bosmer haven't exactly been regarded as an in-demand top-tier race in ESO as it was. I used to be the one sent in to scout around group dungeons without aggroing enemies so my fellow casual players who don't do much group stuff could figure out our strategy; now I'm just good at...not dying as much as others when I fall off something? Don't get me wrong, that's a useful passive when you explore as much as I do and keep running off cliffs, but I'll take sneak over reduced fall damage any day, if I had to choose at all. And I never had to worry about choosing in the past five years! It was fantastic! And I wouldn't even mind if EVERY race had the opportunity to be as sneaky as Bosmer used to be (would love that, in fact, since I have many sneaky chars)...I just want my old sneakiness back. If you're not gonna let me have 120% Chameleon, at least let me have that!

I'm ugly laughing at how many pages this thread has gotten up to. There's no way it can be denied that this is a bad change when this many people in just one spot are complaining.

BlueRaven

Did the race changes go live yet for consoles?

anadandy

BlueRaven wrote: »

Did the race changes go live yet for consoles?

All those Bosmer get gutted tomorrow (March 12)

Cundu_Ertur

16BitForestCat wrote: »

I'm ugly laughing at how many pages this thread has gotten up to. There's no way it can be denied that this is a bad change when this many people in just one spot are complaining.

To be honest, there are a few of us with multiple posts. There weren't that many Bosmer to start with. A fair number of those are so happy with the improvements in the other two passives from the racial change that they don't want to rock the boat. There are some who think that the roll-dodge mechanic is great and don't want to rock the boat. Not many people come in here to try to say the detection part is great, mostly on account that it isn't useful in PVP (potions and Magelight have much better range) and cannot ever even proc in PVE.

If ZOS ever provided feedback (Ha!! as if), one interesting bit would be what the percentage of the playerbase each race represented. If Bosmer weren't at a lower percentage than imperials (who are behind a paywall) after this change I would be surprised. There are some hold-outs who are holding off on race-changing to Khajiit on the off chance that the devs will recognize their error and revert the change, but their hopes are dwindling and the number of Bosmer will likely continue to drop.
I'd also like to know what races have unpopular and untaken passives. It seems Bosmer and Altmer share a racial bonus of having 3 extra skill points.

wedgebert

Yeah, one nice thing about Blizzard is that they expose a lot of their information via publicly available APIs. So sites like https://realmpop.com can exist. It's a shame that they're not doing so great at game design in WoW (BFA was like a whole expansion worth of racial rebalances).

I'd love to know the racial and class distributions of ESO. If for no other reason that I picked my most played WoW alt by picking the least place race (excluding Pandas because I have self respect) and then the least played class for that race. Gnome Monk FTW!

Be fun to do something similar in ESO. Maybe pick some under used skill trees as well.

Jaraal

Maybe after they are done forcing people to convert their stealth characters to Khajiits ahead of the Khajiit chapter going live, they will make Bosmer relevant again. But I gave up hope of player input influencing their decisions long ago. They have a proven track record of making us deal with their unpopular and puzzling game changes, because their ever changing vision is far more important than happy players.

Tasear

Alaya wrote: »

You can't even buy the tickets yet: those come at the end of the month.

I miss my stealthy bosmer, the 3m detection bonus simply isn't worth anything, not even in PvP where you can use much better skills to find players. By the time you see the players, they're already on top of you, so what's the point?

The dodge roll is iffy. I've been utilizing it as I do dungeons and quests in DLC, but it's not an easy thing to use in a lot of places honestly.

Everything else they've given us is okay, we can live with it, but I really wish they'd revert their change to stealth instead of giving us another useless passive.

I'm sure many of you remember when they gave us that fall damage reduction. Guess this means we can just roll ourselves off cliffs faster.

What if they increased the range?

wedgebert

Tasear wrote: »

What if they increased the range?

The question is, why? This isn't something anybody asked for. Especially not Bosmer as a trade for our stealth. We lost a fun and useful PvE (non-endgame) trait and sorta useful PvP trait for something that is 99.9% useless in PvE (I thinks someone said it might work in vMA or something) and every so barely useful in PvP.

It'd be easier and better PR to just give it back than continue to double down on the mistake.

Truthsnark

I support all of my fellow Bosmers here and want my stealth radius reduction back. Nobody picked a Bosmer because they were lighting up the leaderboards, guys. They picked em because of the stealth benefit and they didn't want a tail. I am so annoyed that I now have to farm more gear and deal with clunky gear swapping to maintain both my stealth speed and my stealth radius reduction at a lower level than I had before.

No problem with the dodge roll whatever if that's your jam, but the stealth detection is completely useless. Thanks for taking a useful passive that a lot of people chose their characters for, telling us that NPCs don't stealth, then giving us stealth detection. Super great, awesome.

max_only

wedgebert wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

What if they increased the range?

The question is, why? This isn't something anybody asked for. Especially not Bosmer as a trade for our stealth. We lost a fun and useful PvE (non-endgame) trait and sorta useful PvP trait for something that is 99.9% useless in PvE (I thinks someone said it might work in vMA or something) and every so barely useful in PvP.

It'd be easier and better PR to just give it back than continue to double down on the mistake.

It doesn’t work in vMA. So you can change that to 100%

Cundu_Ertur

Tasear wrote: »

Alaya wrote: »

You can't even buy the tickets yet: those come at the end of the month.

I miss my stealthy bosmer, the 3m detection bonus simply isn't worth anything, not even in PvP where you can use much better skills to find players. By the time you see the players, they're already on top of you, so what's the point?

The dodge roll is iffy. I've been utilizing it as I do dungeons and quests in DLC, but it's not an easy thing to use in a lot of places honestly.

Everything else they've given us is okay, we can live with it, but I really wish they'd revert their change to stealth instead of giving us another useless passive.

I'm sure many of you remember when they gave us that fall damage reduction. Guess this means we can just roll ourselves off cliffs faster.

What if they increased the range?

It could be 3 miles and it would still be completely useless in PVE. And it still isn't what Bosmer are about.

AngelFires333

This is rather amusing for me.
I have just decided to come back today after over a year of being away.
Was 30min into making a new toon and bam! Down for maintenance.
Then I find out about this little doozy... Bosmer being my preferred race and stamblade being my preferred class.
I was rather befuddled with the whole prospect.

There are worse things.
Most of my openers are ranged anyway.

IwakuraLain42

This Friday a new ESO Live show is scheduled with the new Loremaster. Maybe we will hear some words about our poor Bosmer then, but I wouldn't bet on it ...

Ratzkifal

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

This Friday a new ESO Live show is scheduled with the new Loremaster. Maybe we will hear some words about our poor Bosmer then, but I wouldn't bet on it ...

That's great! Although I doubt putting him on the spot to defend/attack what the balance team did is probably unfair. Still I'd like to know how he feels about Bosmer losing their stealthiness in the lastest patch.

Cundu_Ertur

Oh, that's right, today is doomsday for Bosmer on XBone and PS4. Welcome to the party, pals!

BlueRaven

From what I understand a lot of content creators (you tubers, etc) and the like have had some access to the Elswyr chapter. And that the embargo for talking about it will drop on March 25, just before Pax East where it will be shown to the public. Hopefully then we can see what their plan is (if they have one) to open up stealth gameplay to the masses.


I am still planning to go to Pax East. I will try to report what I find out about bosmers & stealth as soon as I can.

AngelFires333

I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.

Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

BlueRaven

AngelFires333 wrote: »

I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.

Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Well right now bosmers are about as stealthy as a nord or an Orc.
Kahjits still have the old stealth radius bonus AND Imperials have a passive that makes stealth cheaper for them, making them a more stealthy choice then bosmers believe it or not.

I don't know what your gameplay is like or what you are looking for in stealth gameplay, but if you are happy with that well good on you. But for me it drives me a bit crazy.

AngelFires333

BlueRaven wrote: »

AngelFires333 wrote: »

I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.

Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Well right now bosmers are about as stealthy as a nord or an Orc.
Kahjits still have the old stealth radius bonus AND Imperials have a passive that makes stealth cheaper for them, making them a more stealthy choice then bosmers believe it or not.

I don't know what your gameplay is like or what you are looking for in stealth gameplay, but if you are happy with that well good on you. But for me it drives me a bit crazy.

I just came back from after a years break and spent 100 bucks on subbing and [snip]
Before I found out about this.
I'm trying to be positive...

[edited for profanity bypass]

BlueRaven

AngelFires333 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

AngelFires333 wrote: »

I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.

Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Well right now bosmers are about as stealthy as a nord or an Orc.
Kahjits still have the old stealth radius bonus AND Imperials have a passive that makes stealth cheaper for them, making them a more stealthy choice then bosmers believe it or not.

I don't know what your gameplay is like or what you are looking for in stealth gameplay, but if you are happy with that well good on you. But for me it drives me a bit crazy.

I just came back from after a years break and spent 100 bucks on subbing and [snip]
I'm trying to be positive...

Well I was in the middle of a cruise to the Panama Canal when I heard about all of this and it ruined my internet time. I used the majority of it just trying to confirm it was actually happening and it was not some gigantic typo mistake.

So yeah, I am still a bit "miffed" about the whole thing.

[edited to remove quote]

AngelFires333

BlueRaven wrote: »

AngelFires333 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

AngelFires333 wrote: »

I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.

Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Well right now bosmers are about as stealthy as a nord or an Orc.
Kahjits still have the old stealth radius bonus AND Imperials have a passive that makes stealth cheaper for them, making them a more stealthy choice then bosmers believe it or not.

I don't know what your gameplay is like or what you are looking for in stealth gameplay, but if you are happy with that well good on you. But for me it drives me a bit crazy.

I just came back from after a years break and spent 100 bucks on subbing and shiz.
I'm trying to be positive...

Well I was in the middle of a cruise to the Panama Canal when I heard about all of this and it ruined my internet time. I used the majority of it just trying to confirm it was actually happening and it was not some gigantic typo mistake.

So yeah, I am still a bit "miffed" about the whole thing.

Jarndyce

I am on the bandwagon now also. My brassy assassin Bosmer keeps getting caught while doing event ticket dailies in DB and TG event. 😑

Ratzkifal

@AngelFires333 Actually if you look at the information game, Bosmer are less stealthy than other races and easier to "detect", because they make the enemy aware of their presence before they even know an enemy is there.

The eye indicator goes from "hidden" to "danger" 3m sooner than that of the Bosmer, thus alerting only one side (aka the nonBosmer). Since we can't assume that players that pay attention move randomly, this puts Bosmer at a disadvantage pretty much all the time.

It's good that you are trying to stay positive though. Sustain was buffed a lot, so that's something to look forward to.

AngelFires333

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@AngelFires333 Actually if you look at the information game, Bosmer are less stealthy than other races and easier to "detect", because they make the enemy aware of their presence before they even know an enemy is there.

The eye indicator goes from "hidden" to "danger" 3m sooner than that of the Bosmer, thus alerting only one side (aka the nonBosmer). Since we can't assume that players that pay attention move randomly, this puts Bosmer at a disadvantage pretty much all the time.

It's good that you are trying to stay positive though. Sustain was buffed a lot, so that's something to look forward to.

MartiniDaniels

Wow, that reaction on brass assassin was fast. Probably mods are actually reading what we write here, and one of them may ask devs to return stealth to bosmers at some point, so they can stop reading same over and over

Seraphayel

anadandy wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Did the race changes go live yet for consoles?

All those Bosmer get gutted tomorrow (March 12)

Actually they'll be improved and only their stealth capabilities nerfed down to the level of every other race in game except Khajiit. The Bosmer DPS buff is more meaningful and important than keeping the stealth passive. They could have kept both without a problem but to say Bosmer didn't generally benefit by the changes is nonsense.