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Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.
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AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭This is rather amusing for me.
I have just decided to come back today after over a year of being away.
Was 30min into making a new toon and bam! Down for maintenance.
Then I find out about this little doozy... Bosmer being my preferred race and stamblade being my preferred class.
I was rather befuddled with the whole prospect.
There are worse things.
Most of my openers are ranged anyway.
Edited by AngelFires333 on March 12, 2019 10:28AM3 -
IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭This Friday a new ESO Live show is scheduled with the new Loremaster. Maybe we will hear some words about our poor Bosmer then, but I wouldn't bet on it ...8 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »This Friday a new ESO Live show is scheduled with the new Loremaster. Maybe we will hear some words about our poor Bosmer then, but I wouldn't bet on it ...
That's great! Although I doubt putting him on the spot to defend/attack what the balance team did is probably unfair. Still I'd like to know how he feels about Bosmer losing their stealthiness in the lastest patch.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.6 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oh, that's right, today is doomsday for Bosmer on XBone and PS4. Welcome to the party, pals!Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.9 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From what I understand a lot of content creators (you tubers, etc) and the like have had some access to the Elswyr chapter. And that the embargo for talking about it will drop on March 25, just before Pax East where it will be shown to the public. Hopefully then we can see what their plan is (if they have one) to open up stealth gameplay to the masses.
I am still planning to go to Pax East. I will try to report what I find out about bosmers & stealth as soon as I can.3 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.
Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Edited by AngelFires333 on March 12, 2019 12:37PM0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.
Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Well right now bosmers are about as stealthy as a nord or an Orc.
Kahjits still have the old stealth radius bonus AND Imperials have a passive that makes stealth cheaper for them, making them a more stealthy choice then bosmers believe it or not.
I don't know what your gameplay is like or what you are looking for in stealth gameplay, but if you are happy with that well good on you. But for me it drives me a bit crazy.
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AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.
Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Well right now bosmers are about as stealthy as a nord or an Orc.
Kahjits still have the old stealth radius bonus AND Imperials have a passive that makes stealth cheaper for them, making them a more stealthy choice then bosmers believe it or not.
I don't know what your gameplay is like or what you are looking for in stealth gameplay, but if you are happy with that well good on you. But for me it drives me a bit crazy.
I just came back from after a years break and spent 100 bucks on subbing and shiz.
Before I found out about this.
I'm trying to be positive...Edited by AngelFires333 on March 12, 2019 12:43PM4 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »AngelFires333 wrote: »I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.
Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Well right now bosmers are about as stealthy as a nord or an Orc.
Kahjits still have the old stealth radius bonus AND Imperials have a passive that makes stealth cheaper for them, making them a more stealthy choice then bosmers believe it or not.
I don't know what your gameplay is like or what you are looking for in stealth gameplay, but if you are happy with that well good on you. But for me it drives me a bit crazy.
I just came back from after a years break and spent 100 bucks on subbing and shiz.
I'm trying to be positive...
Well I was in the middle of a cruise to the Panama Canal when I heard about all of this and it ruined my internet time. I used the majority of it just trying to confirm it was actually happening and it was not some gigantic typo mistake.
So yeah, I am still a bit "miffed" about the whole thing.5 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »AngelFires333 wrote: »I'm such an idiot.
I was under the impression they were changing it so one was more detectable in stealth by others. lol...
As it stands...Apart from having a minor impact on my looting, I don't really see the big deal.
Yes It is stupid...Yes I wish they left it or thought of something a little more imaginative (that's what LSD was created for)
But in the end, it really could be worse.
What I have always wanted to see for Bosmer, is the cat crit passive.
That would be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Well right now bosmers are about as stealthy as a nord or an Orc.
Kahjits still have the old stealth radius bonus AND Imperials have a passive that makes stealth cheaper for them, making them a more stealthy choice then bosmers believe it or not.
I don't know what your gameplay is like or what you are looking for in stealth gameplay, but if you are happy with that well good on you. But for me it drives me a bit crazy.
I just came back from after a years break and spent 100 bucks on subbing and shiz.
I'm trying to be positive...
Well I was in the middle of a cruise to the Panama Canal when I heard about all of this and it ruined my internet time. I used the majority of it just trying to confirm it was actually happening and it was not some gigantic typo mistake.
So yeah, I am still a bit "miffed" about the whole thing.
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Jarndyce✭✭✭I am on the bandwagon now also. My brassy assassin Bosmer keeps getting caught while doing event ticket dailies in DB and TG event. 😑8 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@AngelFires333 Actually if you look at the information game, Bosmer are less stealthy than other races and easier to "detect", because they make the enemy aware of their presence before they even know an enemy is there.
The eye indicator goes from "hidden" to "danger" 3m sooner than that of the Bosmer, thus alerting only one side (aka the nonBosmer). Since we can't assume that players that pay attention move randomly, this puts Bosmer at a disadvantage pretty much all the time.
It's good that you are trying to stay positive though. Sustain was buffed a lot, so that's something to look forward to.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.9 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭@AngelFires333 Actually if you look at the information game, Bosmer are less stealthy than other races and easier to "detect", because they make the enemy aware of their presence before they even know an enemy is there.
The eye indicator goes from "hidden" to "danger" 3m sooner than that of the Bosmer, thus alerting only one side (aka the nonBosmer). Since we can't assume that players that pay attention move randomly, this puts Bosmer at a disadvantage pretty much all the time.
It's good that you are trying to stay positive though. Sustain was buffed a lot, so that's something to look forward to.
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, that reaction on brass assassin was fast. Probably mods are actually reading what we write here, and one of them may ask devs to return stealth to bosmers at some point, so they can stop reading same over and over
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Actually they'll be improved and only their stealth capabilities nerfed down to the level of every other race in game except Khajiit. The Bosmer DPS buff is more meaningful and important than keeping the stealth passive. They could have kept both without a problem but to say Bosmer didn't generally benefit by the changes is nonsense.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Actually they'll be improved and only their stealth capabilities nerfed down to the level of every other race in game except Khajiit. The Bosmer DPS buff is more meaningful and important than keeping the stealth passive. They could have kept both without a problem but to say Bosmer didn't generally benefit by the changes is nonsense.
Except they're being outperformed by Orcs in every measure. Even by the measure of Orcs have three useful passive skills while Bosmer have two useful and one that lowers DPS if you try to use it on purpose.6 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Actually they'll be improved and only their stealth capabilities nerfed down to the level of every other race in game except Khajiit. The Bosmer DPS buff is more meaningful and important than keeping the stealth passive. They could have kept both without a problem but to say Bosmer didn't generally benefit by the changes is nonsense.
Except they're being outperformed by Orcs in every measure. Even by the measure of Orcs have three useful passive skills while Bosmer have two useful and one that lowers DPS if you try to use it on purpose.
We can go back to the U20 Bosmer racials where Orcs would outperform even more but they can stealth a bit better. Deal? Guess not.
So yes, Orcs might be better in that regard but Bosmer have become way better for Stamina DPS in this update which often gets ignored by the crowd that complains about the stealth passive removal.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »
We've proposed the solution, repeatedly; return a racial bonus to hiding to the Bosmer. So, no.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.17 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭I'm still a little confused on the % change to numbers for stam.
Have we got a buff to both stam regen and max stam, or one or the other?
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AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭It's been so long.
I've nearly forgot everything involved.
Is Alcast still doin his thing?
Or anyone else you can point me towards for a solid and current Stamblade dps build please?0 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Actually they'll be improved and only their stealth capabilities nerfed down to the level of every other race in game except Khajiit. The Bosmer DPS buff is more meaningful and important than keeping the stealth passive. They could have kept both without a problem but to say Bosmer didn't generally benefit by the changes is nonsense.
Except they're being outperformed by Orcs in every measure. Even by the measure of Orcs have three useful passive skills while Bosmer have two useful and one that lowers DPS if you try to use it on purpose.
We can go back to the U20 Bosmer racials where Orcs would outperform even more but they can stealth a bit better. Deal? Guess not.
So yes, Orcs might be better in that regard but Bosmer have become way better for Stamina DPS in this update which often gets ignored by the crowd that complains about the stealth passive removal.
Bosmer did go from being 'strictly speaking could be used for Stamina DPS, but not really' below the bottom of the stamina barrel to 'maybe you can consider this on some builds, but it's still not top notch,' lower end of stamina play. And the differential between the top and bottom of the barrel is much smaller now. I've never denied this. In the other Bosmer thread about performance in combat, I honestly said it is better for me.
Doesn't change the fact that the detection passive is utter garbage. It breaks lore; it does absolutely nothing in 90% or more of the game, and in the 10% or less of the game where it could do something it is still useless and completely overshadowed by potions and magelight.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.10 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Actually they'll be improved and only their stealth capabilities nerfed down to the level of every other race in game except Khajiit. The Bosmer DPS buff is more meaningful and important than keeping the stealth passive. They could have kept both without a problem but to say Bosmer didn't generally benefit by the changes is nonsense.
Except they're being outperformed by Orcs in every measure. Even by the measure of Orcs have three useful passive skills while Bosmer have two useful and one that lowers DPS if you try to use it on purpose.
We can go back to the U20 Bosmer racials where Orcs would outperform even more but they can stealth a bit better. Deal? Guess not.
So yes, Orcs might be better in that regard but Bosmer have become way better for Stamina DPS in this update which often gets ignored by the crowd that complains about the stealth passive removal.
Here is what Alcast has to say about;
"Stamina Damage Dealer
Best choice: Orc, Redguard, Dark Elf, Kahjiit
As a stamina damage dealer Orcs have the best stats, followed up by races like Redguards, Dark Elves and Khajiits. All are viable choices, so you can pick whichever race you like the most."
https://alcasthq.com/eso-race-guide-elder-scrolls-online/
So the recommendation is to choose basically ANY other Stam based race outside of Imperial for a Stamina damage dealer.
So yes we got a dps boost, was it enough? Apparently not.
We still lag behind the other Stam races, but now the racial we made a bosmer for (aka The FUN racial)is gone.
And we are supposed to be grateful for this?Edited by BlueRaven on March 12, 2019 3:01PM7 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »AngelFires333 wrote: »
We've proposed the solution, repeatedly; return a racial bonus to hiding to the Bosmer. So, no.
It was more a general statement for the whole forum.
Every damn thread is a complaint.
It's ridiculous and draining.1 -
anadandy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Actually they'll be improved and only their stealth capabilities nerfed down to the level of every other race in game except Khajiit. The Bosmer DPS buff is more meaningful and important than keeping the stealth passive. They could have kept both without a problem but to say Bosmer didn't generally benefit by the changes is nonsense.
Their racial identity will be gutted, that is my point. I have never said Bosmer didn't benefit at all from the changes. My issue (and several others in this thread) is the removal of a core identifying racial passive (stealth radius) for zero in return (stealth detection - useless in PVE borderline useless in PVP) as well as lack of dev acknowledgment of this problem (PVP only passive, contradictory goals - "stealth isn't a universal skill, so we replaced it with an even less universal skill").
Edited by anadandy on March 12, 2019 2:56PM11 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »I'm still a little confused on the % change to numbers for stam.
Have we got a buff to both stam regen and max stam, or one or the other?
Decent buff to Max stam. Regen is maybe a slight buff, maybe a slight nerf, maybe a wash depending on your build.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »I'm still a little confused on the % change to numbers for stam.
Have we got a buff to both stam regen and max stam, or one or the other?
Max stam the same for your typical build. Virtually increased by changes to food, but changes to food apply to all races.
Stamina regen considerably increased for pve stam dps. Remained the same for stam recovery stacked PVP builds.
Stealth, disease resistance and damage from sneak gone for roll-dodge passive.
Stealth detection is not a passive and it's not a bonus and not even a free incentive card in supermarket. It's just useless thing which ZOS didn't know where to place, and since bosmer "box" looked emptier then others, it came it was placed there.7 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »AngelFires333 wrote: »I'm still a little confused on the % change to numbers for stam.
Have we got a buff to both stam regen and max stam, or one or the other?
Max stam the same for your typical build. Virtually increased by changes to food, but changes to food apply to all races.
Stamina regen considerably increased for pve stam dps. Remained the same for stam recovery stacked PVP builds.
Stealth, disease resistance and damage from sneak gone for roll-dodge passive.
Stealth detection is not a passive and it's not a bonus and not even a free incentive card in supermarket. It's just useless thing which ZOS didn't know where to place, and since bosmer "box" looked emptier then others, it came it was placed there.
I am convinced more than ever that the reason why bosmers don't have a stealth bonus is because Kahjits do. That is it.
And since they had to have something with the word "stealth" in it for Bosmers, they gave us stealth detection instead. It was a quick and lazy change, and I think it shows the rather disinterest the devs had for Bosmers in designing their racials.
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This discussion has been closed.