Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Heists actually aren't that much worse, but only because the lantern guys are immune to stealth anyways. They suck more now (and they sucked before since they valued speed not stealth), but ironically they're not much changed.
Seem to be a lot worse to me. The regular denizens are spotting us much more easily, and cutting our time down a lot faster. Not even worth trying to sneak around, I just load up the werewolf ulti and slaughter everybody. I get a lesser reward, but I still get an event ticket, and no more wasting time trying to stealth through it.
9 -
BlueViolet✭✭✭✭✭Heists actually aren't that much worse, but only because the lantern guys are immune to stealth anyways. They suck more now (and they sucked before since they valued speed not stealth), but ironically they're not much changed.
Seem to be a lot worse to me. The regular denizens are spotting us much more easily, and cutting our time down a lot faster. Not even worth trying to sneak around, I just load up the werewolf ulti and slaughter everybody. I get a lesser reward, but I still get an event ticket, and no more wasting time trying to stealth through it.
This was the issue I felt I had. I was spotted by the Argonian in the sewer tenement ( ? ) almost as soon as I was in the first area, and I wasn't anywhere near her. Previously, I would practically have been able to climb over her without her noticing, but this time she spotted me immediately.
Few times more after that with regular NPC's easily spotting my char, and my heist time evaporated so I just slaughtered everyone in the vicinity, something I have NEVER done before. I just couldn't even be bothered trying anymore after that. It just feels like the fun has been sucked right out of it.
I've never done any heists, or assassinations etc on a character without stealth bonuses, so I can't say exactly how it is meant to be on a non-stealth bonus character, though I suppose I got a taste of it the other day during this heist. And it was horrible.
EU / NA / PC11 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Something a guildmate pointed out to me (who isn’t a Bosmer and isn’t interested in ever being one) is that we have to spend Stamina doing an ACTION in order to get our PASSIVE.
I said that it irked me yes, but so many rolypoly players love it, I’d get no support if I called for change. If it was me, I’d have the extra penetration on all the time, no roll dodge required. But I’ve hesitated to bring it up and muddy the waters.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom13 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Something a guildmate pointed out to me (who isn’t a Bosmer and isn’t interested in ever being one) is that we have to spend Stamina doing an ACTION in order to get our PASSIVE.
I said that it irked me yes, but so many rolypoly players love it, I’d get no support if I called for change. If it was me, I’d have the extra penetration on all the time, no roll dodge required. But I’ve hesitated to bring it up and muddy the waters.
I can agree with this. I look at it this way, the whole roll/sprint/armor pen mechanic basically replaced the "10% bonus damage from stealth" bit. And I give them the same weight in importance to me (not a lot).
I really just want the stealth back.
Edited by BlueRaven on March 14, 2019 2:25PM8 -
NoTimeToWait✭✭✭✭✭Actually, it feels like ZOS made changes across the board. I can't move past while crouching with my Khajiit in places where I used to move easily before. My gear setup hasn't changed, but I get detected a lot more than before. So, basically, I have all Medium Night Terror and Night Mothers sets and khajiit passive (basically all possible stacks on enemy stealth detection reduction), and can't get closer than 1 meter to any NPC, 1.5 meters if they have any light source nearby (in best cases, in worst I get detected even from quite a long distance). It makes me think, that either stealth is currently bugged, or ZOS made unannounced changes to NPC detectionEdited by NoTimeToWait on March 14, 2019 2:05PM8 -
Alucardmike✭✭✭Has anyone here said, that we want back the stealth?
No?
So I do it.
Give us our stealth.The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.7 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Something a guildmate pointed out to me (who isn’t a Bosmer and isn’t interested in ever being one) is that we have to spend Stamina doing an ACTION in order to get our PASSIVE.
I said that it irked me yes, but so many rolypoly players love it, I’d get no support if I called for change. If it was me, I’d have the extra penetration on all the time, no roll dodge required. But I’ve hesitated to bring it up and muddy the waters.
A few races have to use actions to active their passives. Orcs and Redguard have to attack with a weapon/deal direct damage, and Altmer have to use a class ability.
What makes the Bosmer one uniquely bad is that the other races would normally be doing their actions anyways. Orcs and Redguard are always going to be attacking, not to mention that even a light attack will trigger the proc. But even if you limited it to weapon abilities, that's something they're doing regardless. Same with Altmer, they're going to be using class abilities pretty constantly such that it works out to be an extra 215 stam recovery (compared to the Bosmer 258, it's just the Altmer don't need it).
Bomser on the other hand, outside of PvP are rarely dodge rolling. We don't just have to use an action, we have to pretty much waste 3000 stamina to activate our ability but the damage we get is minuscule. As a stamblade, I would get more damage with the Altmer's passive and using it to cast Soul Trap than I would from Hunter's Eye boosting my stamina damage.
To your rolypoly friends, you should ask why the love it so much when- If (for some reason), you're a magicka Bosmer, the Breton Spell Atunement passive is 54% (2310 resistance vs 1500 pen) stronger with 100% free uptime compared to Hunter's Eye (208% stronger if they're burning/chilled/concussed)
- Orc's weapon damage is, at least 1.5% stronger all the time for free based on 3000 base weapon damage, it's a ~6% increase, vs Bomser's pen bonus being a 4.5% effective increase at best (enemy has exactly pen cap and Hunter's eye is only source pen, it only gets weaker from there). Orc's also have same max stam bouns and the sprint buffs make that part better than Hunter's Eye too
- Altmer's Elemental Talent is the same as Orcs but for their spells.
- Nord's Rugged trait is 164% stronger than Hunter's Eye for both physical and spell damage.
- Dunmer's Ruination is the same as Orcs but for both weapon and spell
- Redguard have same stamina buff, cheaper weapon abilities, and higher sustain
- Argonian's healing buff can more than counter any extra damage caused by Hunter's Eye and still have buff healing left over
- Imperials, if you're generous, get the equivalent ~208 magicka/stamina recovery on top of ~83 health recovery. This is based on 83 resource recovery from Red Diamond and the 3% cost reduction (one ability usage a second that costs 2066 is 62 a second which saving as much as 124 stamina recovery(
There is literally no reason to choose Bosmer if you're trying to min/max because Orcs are OP (racial passively speaking) and Redguard are just almost identical to Bosmer except better (cheaper weapon abilities and better sustain is worth way more than burning all your stamina for a tiny damage increase). Even the mess that is the Khajiit passives are better than Bosmer.
And from a lore perspective, Bosmer don't have any in-game abilities that match their lore. Learning the bow slightly faster isn't the same as being expert archers.
So unless you're someone who thinks Bosmer are cute, taking one is bad from both a gameplay standpoint and from a lore perspective. So why are the rolypolys happy?13 -
Wildbloom✭✭✭✭Here's what I would do.
10% speed for 6 seconds, increased stam recovery by X for 6 seconds. Also increases stealth by 3 yards.
If we're going to be the kings of stam recovery as our main perk, this would make rolling much easier and serve as a more useful stat than penetration. The increase in stealth would just be giving us back what we lost, which has been discussed and explained to death, so I wont bother.
That's just my idea!"Hello, Skellington Pal! How are you today? Bone dry, you say? I’d offer you a glass of water, but it’d all fall through! I need more coffee."
ZOS_GinaBruno, patch 5.0.1 PTS patch notes, 4/22/20196 -
wedgebert✭✭✭✭✭Here's what I would do.
10% speed for 6 seconds, increased stam recovery by X for 6 seconds. Also increases stealth by 3 yards.
If we're going to be the kings of stam recovery as our main perk, this would make rolling much easier and serve as a more useful stat than penetration. The increase in stealth would just be giving us back what we lost, which has been discussed and explained to death, so I wont bother.
That's just my idea!
I would put points into that skill line (assuming you mean decerases stealth radius by 3m) Th
Hell, you could even change it to "Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 1/2/3m. Reduces the cost of roll dodge by X/Y/Z (% or flat rate). Increases speed by whocares for 6 seconds after roll dodging" and it'd be much more useful and lore friendly than it is now.6 -
Wildbloom✭✭✭✭Here's what I would do.
10% speed for 6 seconds, increased stam recovery by X for 6 seconds. Also increases stealth by 3 yards.
If we're going to be the kings of stam recovery as our main perk, this would make rolling much easier and serve as a more useful stat than penetration. The increase in stealth would just be giving us back what we lost, which has been discussed and explained to death, so I wont bother.
That's just my idea!
I would put points into that skill line (assuming you mean decerases stealth radius by 3m) Th
Hell, you could even change it to "Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 1/2/3m. Reduces the cost of roll dodge by X/Y/Z (% or flat rate). Increases speed by whocares for 6 seconds after roll dodging" and it'd be much more useful and lore friendly than it is now.
Yes, decreasing stealth radius is what I mean. Same as pre-Wrathstone.
I think decreasing roll dodge cost would be too much, since it would make the roll-fatigue with frequent rolling much less of an issue for bosmer, and I think that would be OP. I don't see why we can't get a hair of stam regen after rolling, even if it's like 30 or 40."Hello, Skellington Pal! How are you today? Bone dry, you say? I’d offer you a glass of water, but it’d all fall through! I need more coffee."
ZOS_GinaBruno, patch 5.0.1 PTS patch notes, 4/22/20193 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I hope they address some of these weird lore-twisting racial changes tomorrow during ESO Live.6 -
Shalktonin✭✭✭The salt in this thread alone i could start a well positioned salt mine for the next 30 years. very nice.3 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I hope they address some of these weird lore-twisting racial changes tomorrow during ESO Live.
I'd bet my meager savings that they will not.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.10 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.
Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.Edited by Koronach on March 14, 2019 3:52PM8 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.
So we are going from;
"Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997/class-reps-update-meeting-notes-jan-30-2019/p1
To "Done and we shall never speak of it again" now?4 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.
Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.
Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.Edited by Seraphayel on March 14, 2019 3:57PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.
Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.
Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.
No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?Edited by Koronach on March 14, 2019 3:59PM11 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.
Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.
Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.
No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?
Yeah I thought so too but you're all (like the ten guys that comment here mostly) just repeating the same arguments for over 30 pages now so I can do it too. Especially when some statements here are not true and full of exaggerations.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.
Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.
Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.
No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?
Yeah I thought so too but you're all (like the ten guys that comment here mostly) just repeating the same arguments for over 30 pages now so I can do it too. Especially when some statements here are not true and full of exaggerations.
Most people don't even bother to join the forums. Just because it's the same people on here doesn't mean a lot of other people don't care as well.12 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Several people in my guild chat were talking about how Bosmer got screwed over. I haven't seen them post here. So there's talk out and about concerning this that isn't reflected here.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.11 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Several people in my guild chat were talking about how Bosmer got screwed over. I haven't seen them post here. So there's talk out and about concerning this that isn't reflected here.
I'm in all Argonian guild and they weren't too thrilled with the changes for us. They really hated the poison because it breaks the games lore and it removes some of our identity. They scratched their heads at the Bosmer stealth change, couldn't understand why Khajiit should be the only natural stealth race.Edited by Koronach on March 14, 2019 4:22PM8 -
A_Silverius✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Except there is, because giving sneak detection as a solution to their statement: "since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!)" is a poor choice and a mistake on their part and it does not benefit players who enjoyed sneaking in PvE. We've already established the fact that Bosmers were never the top choice for min max players, so we can deduce from it that people who do choose to roll a Bosmer before the patch were for PvE reasons. Hence it is important that we get a passive which also benefits our PvE playstyle.
Having some clarity over the changes can help players understand why they did it. So yes, there is a good reason why a developer should address this change and/or others. I should let you know as well that you really have a bad habit of speaking for ZOS my friend, you're not doing them nor yourself any good at all and your remarks ends up coming across as arrogant.All over Tamriel, theres a sudden spike in Bosmers getting caught for their crimes. A sad day indeed... #FightForYourRite Give Bosmers back our stealth!10 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Something a guildmate pointed out to me (who isn’t a Bosmer and isn’t interested in ever being one) is that we have to spend Stamina doing an ACTION in order to get our PASSIVE.
I said that it irked me yes, but so many rolypoly players love it, I’d get no support if I called for change. If it was me, I’d have the extra penetration on all the time, no roll dodge required. But I’ve hesitated to bring it up and muddy the waters.
Not only are we burning resources, but they are requiring us to do something that is widely ostracized in the PvP section here. I’ve seen these roly poly builds, usually with Eternal Hunt and Morihaus or Senche’s Bite, described as cancer, proctards, etc. They expect us to be tumbling around like drunken clowns, while everybody else is engaging in swordplay or casting spells. So, not only have they stolen our stealth, but they expect us to give up our dignity as well and roll around in the dirt like dogs to see any benefit from our racial passives.
13 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A_Silverius wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Except there is, because giving sneak detection as a solution to their statement: "since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!)" is a poor choice and a mistake on their part and it does not benefit players who enjoyed sneaking in PvE. We've already established the fact that Bosmers were never the top choice for min max players, so we can deduce from it that people who do choose to roll a Bosmer before the patch were for PvE reasons. Hence it is important that we get a passive which also benefits our PvE playstyle.
Having some clarity over the changes can help players understand why they did it. So yes, there is a good reason why a developer should address this change and/or others. I should let you know as well that you really have a bad habit of speaking for ZOS my friend, you're not doing them nor yourself any good at all and your remarks ends up coming across as arrogant.
Be honest: it doesn't matter what they say about the change, you all will not like their answer as long as it doesn't contain the words "we will give Bosmer back their Stealth bonus".
Again, they talked about the changes. Several times. You chose to not like what they say and keep doing so until they say exactly what you want to hear. Don't act like it's just about a clarification on why they did this because it's not. You already have that.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.
Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.
Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.
No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?
Yeah I thought so too but you're all (like the ten guys that comment here mostly) just repeating the same arguments for over 30 pages now so I can do it too. Especially when some statements here are not true and full of exaggerations.
Most people don't even bother to join the forums. Just because it's the same people on here doesn't mean a lot of other people don't care as well.
How goes the saying? The dissatisfied people usually go to the forums to vent their anger, the satisfied don't. Based on that the amount of dissatisfied people (Bosmer in this case) seems to be tiny because, as I said, this thread is driven by just a handful of people (plus me now).Edited by Seraphayel on March 14, 2019 4:26PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Koronach✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.
Oops, I'm back again.
Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.
Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.
No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?
Yeah I thought so too but you're all (like the ten guys that comment here mostly) just repeating the same arguments for over 30 pages now so I can do it too. Especially when some statements here are not true and full of exaggerations.
Most people don't even bother to join the forums. Just because it's the same people on here doesn't mean a lot of other people don't care as well.
How goes the saying? The dissatisfied people usually go to the forums to vent their anger, the satisfied don't. Based on that the amount of dissatisfied people (Bosmer in this case) seems to be tiny because, as I said, this thread is driven by just a handful of people (plus me now).
You do realize signing up on these forums isn't always a walk in the park right? A lot of people just won't bother specially if they never got a code after purchase like I did.6
This discussion has been closed.