Still no official response on this? It's clear that the changes were wrong at this point....I've docked my bosmer toons since the change....waiting for a lgitimate response from ZoS before I use those race change tokens.

At this point I am questioning a lot of the race change passives.

I agree. It always seems weird to me now, thinking of a Bosmer as being more effectve in being a guard, than escaping one...

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am interested to see if there is a patch today and that the detect invisible target bug/feature survives.

Not mentioned. The deafening silence continues.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

I'm not saying anyone should accept something they don't like, but I do truly hope people who have grown to enjoy the characters they've created find a way to continue with them despite this change. It may feel like its all over for that character right now, but its not over, who knows what the future might bring.

For now, maybe your character is on a new life mission or something.

No thanks, I'll take back my stealth thank you very much. A Bosmer without stealth is a Bosmer doom to be a Guard with an arrow in its knee.

A_Silverius wrote: »

No thanks, I'll take back my stealth thank you very much. A Bosmer without stealth is a Bosmer doom to be a Guard with an arrow in its knee.

Okay...

Until then, I guess...happy misery?

Jaraal wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

So.... the thought that comes to my mind is that the devs have done this whole stupid "*** on the lore" thing because they don't want TG and DB to give so many tickets that the next event or so won't be bothered with.

You know, that hadn't even occurred to me, but now that you mention it..... they did say that event tickets would be available for purchase in the crown store. Perhaps this upcoming event will be the one? That would be a terrible coincidence. Please tell me it's not planned that way!

Arato wrote: »

Try doing heists or sacraments where you're actually timed and it matters whether you get detected or not. Try to get all objectives.

Exactly. They are hard enough to do perfectly with a maxed out stealth character, let alone one gimped because his stealth bonus was removed.

It is not planned that way.
- Khajiits still have sneaking abilities, and this went live before the DB event.
- Not only that but we were given - free of charge - 3 race change tokens. If one values the event tickets that much, one could change races before the event and have enough tokens left to change back to a wood elf after the event is over.
- we don't know yet which activities grant event tickets. There was talk about it being heists and sacraments, but I also saw posts reminding people that in the past, doing other activities also worked for this event.
- Even IF the only activities that grant tickets are heists and sacraments, turning in the quest will probably grant you the proper amount of tickets, just like turning in one of those even though we ran out of time still grants a reward and the completion of the quest.
- I've participated in every single event since the event tickets were introduced. I have yet to fail at getting a ticket due to being unable to complete the content because it was too hard. In every single event so far, there were activities that would suit every level player out there.

One last thing, regarding devs being unwilling to give away too many event tickets. I have one nascent Indrik, enough feathers for a second one and all the berry fragments issued so far. For at least the last two events I was able to get the berry before I did the first activity of the first day.
I went through most of the Morrowind celebration "wasting" my tickets so to speak, because I reached 12 and couldn't acquire more. The last event alone gave enough tickets to either buy two of the items from the Empresario (and have 4, IIRC, tickets left) or buy one item and have enough to skip the next event.

Arato wrote: »

wedgebert wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

What about adding 10% movement speed in stealth instead of penetration?

Useless, set bonuses from gear, vampirism passives, and a nightblade skill all outstrip that, meanwhile the racial stealth bonus is stronger than any set bonus, to give you a comparison for power.

Now if you made the bonus +30% speed in stealth, it'd be slightly faster than default move speed so slightly better than night's silence or other means of ignoring stealth's movement speed penalty, that would be comparable to -3 detect radius from the racial vs -2 detect radius from sets. I'd still rather have -3 stealth detect radius, but at least then it'd be somewhat comparable in power. Khajiit would still hide better, Bosmer would just be the fastest race in stealth.

I would be against this, mainly because I don't think you should ever be able to sneak faster than the default walk speed.

Well the idea is that the racial stealth bonus is more powerful than a 3 or 5 piece set bonus, so you shouldn't replace it with a bonus that is LESS than that.

I know. My resistance to that as a bonus stems from I don't think anything should let you sneak faster than you can walk.

Koronach wrote: »

If it comes down to lore I doubt they will do anything about it. They seem to throw lore to the side when making changes, I mean.

Koronach wrote: »

I’m guessing many of you will be interested to know more about the racial balance changes. While we aren’t ready to share specific details yet, here’s a peek at the goals driving the team’s effort:

When selecting a race, players should have multiple effective options for any given gameplay role. The combat power provided by each race should be more equalized. Players should feel a stronger sense of power progression through racial passives as they level up. The unique feeling and flavor each race provides should be retained and enhanced where possible, and remain faithful to established lore.

That's all for now. Feedback, as always, is welcome.

Sorry none of those are even close to true for Argonians. Also how is removing Argonian poison resistance staying faithful to established lore?



It's all over the actual in game lore from quest NPC's. Let's see we have the Bleakrock spider quest, Eastmarch Daril quest, Green-Venom-Tongue Shadowscale stating he got his name because he drank so much poison, his tongue is permanently stained green, Jee-Lar mentioning it in that poison sniffer lizard quest, and prob others I'm forgetting.
@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_Gilliam care to elaborate on this epic lore fail?

That's about as lore breaking as you can get, saying a race is resistant to something in game and removing it from them.

“But you can wear glyphs if you want to role play as poison resistant.” Is what forum dwellers would say if you pointed this out to them.

I agree and as I’ve said, they should have given stealth radius reduction to more races, Argonian and Dunmer need it too.

Tasear wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Marcus_Thracius wrote: »

Vote with your wallet - otherwise they ignore you

I think it was Rich Lambert who said “You know you don’t have to be here” in response to criticism. Somehow I think they’d rather feel “right” than acquiesce to “customers”. I found the quote. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3160562/#Comment_3160562

Besides they are counting on bringing in a bunch of Khajiit players to make up for anything lost. Cats appeal to the internet meme community (3rd person speech is basically Can Haz Cheezeburger), to people who don’t care about Elder Scrolls but like cats, to people who identify as furry/anthro, etc. They’re planning on raking it in with the flash in the pan gaming community. Those are also the people who are most likely to splurge on cosmetics to make their kitten unique.

That quote was taken out of context and reused in many places.

I provided the original context. The original quote was in response to a player saying “when are you going to fix your busted game”. As cheeky and insulting as that question was, there are plenty of alternative ways to respond that are wiser.

Anyway it doesn’t matter. If I was in charge of a video game I’d do whatever I like with few exceptions. one exception happens to be leaving things that have been established for over 20 years and have been established for 5 years in the specific game I run.

That’s just me though. I know it’s not everyone.

max_only wrote: »

“But you can wear glyphs if you want to role play as poison resistant.” Is what forum dwellers would say if you pointed this out to them.

I agree and as I’ve said, they should have given stealth radius reduction to more races, Argonian and Dunmer need it too.

I think this argument of "Just wear an armor set!" is just really disingenuous. At that point what have any racials? We can just do "Build-A-Race" through armor sets.
The lore (and that includes racials) is what brings the depth to this and other ES games.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I think this argument of "Just wear an armor set!" is just really disingenuous.

Disingenuous? I made that suggestion and was sincere. For now, if you want that ability, what else can you do?

You are right, for now there is nothing else you can do, but that is being very dismissive about the problem at hand. That is what is meant by disingenuous. If you are playing a race that has a natural resistance to poison, you should not need to wear gear against poison to have that resistance. If these things can only be expressed by wearing the right gear, racial passives have no raison d'être. They would just be arbitrary buffs and if you want arbitrary buffs, then there is no reason to tie them to races at all.

@BlueRaven

A better analogy would be...

"I've got a flesh wound, guess I'll go ahead and cut my legs off, that'll show 'em"

or

"My leg is bleeding badly, but I won't put on that tourniquet!

My guess at this point is, they hear our feedback and intend to do something. It will likely be something we're not tossing around. My guess is an extension of legerdemian that would give us the same stealth we had before back, only everyone else can get it too. But that still means that bosmer are equal to most other races as far as their stealth goes...BUT if they let us trait into stealth via new traits enough, we'll be more than good enough at it without the need for a racial and they can keep the "invis peeking" racial we've been given to "keep them lore-friendly".

Would it be ideal? It depends on what kind of traits they toss in, if any. We could end up sneakier than before, along with everyone else, which I think would be great. We have 2 DLCs revolving around sneaking and right now we only have 1 race that can do it super well. They could fix this with Elswyr.

Pickpocketing all 3 items at once, better stealth, faster in stealth, things like that would make the sneakthief gameplay a lot more fun and accessible for those of us that are willing to dump about 15 more skill points into it.


Or they can leave stealth as-is and and only the flavor-of-the-month race (khajit) would be happy, which would not be so good.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

No sorry, that's a terrible analogy and it is missing the point entirely. I'm not saying his was better, but it came definitely closer.

You've put forth a very well thought out and organized objection.

The problem with rejecting help like armor sets because its not what an individual may prefer, even in the short term undermines all your work.

Its important to have integrity and appear rational, even if the changes drive you crazy.

1. People have claimed that the stealth bonus is very important to them and what they do in PvE.
2. Some people claim this is why they rolled a Bosmer. Once again very important aspect of the game to them.
3. The change doesn't help them at all as the stealth bonus is what really helped them.
4. The change has been made, for now at least, maybe forever.

THE Question: Wouldn't it be a good thing to encourage the use of "band-aids" to help people handicapped by this change, either until its changed again or at least to continue to enjoy that part of the game?

One answer is rational and the other is not.