Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

Girl_Number8

This is tough. I really like the new woodelf racials, as I have made several builds for different classes in PvP using the bosmer and it really is working out. I feel for the PvE players and there have been a lot of changes and some more coming. Though with the dragons coming and if the game goes full skyrim, a lot of people will be happy and a lot will leave. For PvP I really do like the new bosmer but then again I mainly PvP and min max my characters for the harder content in PvE, so I change to what I need with no attachment.

Zoltan_117

Nerouyn wrote: »

I'd rather racials simply be scrapped so we could play whatever race we want how we want. Like in the single player games.

But if they're going to have racials, taking the stealth bonus away from Bosmer makes ZO liars.

They claim that one of the key goals for these changes is to give players more options when selecting a race. Supposedly they don't want every player who enjoys a particular play style to feel obliged to pick one race whose passives maximise that.

By taking the stealth bonus away from Bosmer and leaving it with Khajiit they're definitely going backwards.

Maybe the solution is to also take it away from Khajiit.

THIS!

WHAT SHOULD BE DONE and is realistic is that if you are going down the stealth path, you can catch up to a Bosmer, but they should have a bonus at the start and for non stealth classes they should always have a bonus stealth, but if you are a dunmer and you dedicate yourself you should be able to equal a bosmer.

A_Silverius

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

THE Question: Wouldn't it be a good thing to encourage the use of "band-aids" to help people handicapped by this change, either until its changed again or at least to continue to enjoy that part of the game?

Thanks for the suggestion, but this "band-aid" solution means nothing if you were already stacking reduced stealth radius sets with the racial passive. Bosmers till screwed

A_Silverius

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

This is tough. I really like the new woodelf racials, as I have made several builds for different classes in PvP using the bosmer and it really is working out. I feel for the PvE players and there have been a lot of changes and some more coming. Though with the dragons coming and if the game goes full skyrim, a lot of people will be happy and a lot will leave. For PvP I really do like the new bosmer but then again I mainly PvP and min max my characters for the harder content in PvE, so I change to what I need with no attachment.

Do you find the stealth detection racial passive useful in PvP?

Torbschka

New bosmer is really strong in PvP , awesome for me.

Swergdach

Torbschka wrote: »

New bosmer is really strong in PvP , awesome for me.

I can say for sure that this is not because new stealth detection. Anyway, PVPers never cares about game lore. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ratzkifal

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

This is tough. I really like the new woodelf racials, as I have made several builds for different classes in PvP using the bosmer and it really is working out. I feel for the PvE players and there have been a lot of changes and some more coming. Though with the dragons coming and if the game goes full skyrim, a lot of people will be happy and a lot will leave. For PvP I really do like the new bosmer but then again I mainly PvP and min max my characters for the harder content in PvE, so I change to what I need with no attachment.

Torbschka wrote: »

New bosmer is really strong in PvP , awesome for me.

@Girl_Number8 @Torbschka But is it the detection passive that makes it so good in PvP? I can't speak for all of us, but I think most people in here would be fine if the dodgeroll thing was kept as it is but the detection was reverted to being-detected radius reduction. I've done testing on this and 3meters sounds like much, because it is IRL, but it's nothing in ESO, especially when running around. You'll also never spot cloaked enemies with this just because the radius is impossibly small (half that of Mage Light, that's 75% less reveal area and you still can't target them.)

Hand_Bacon

Swergdach wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

New bosmer is really strong in PvP , awesome for me.

I can say for sure that this is not because new stealth detection. Anyway, PVPers never cares about game lore. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've had the stealth detection work in my favor although sparingly. I really wish it would be the same as magelight. I wouldn't necessarily say ALL pvp'ers don't care about lore, but I get what you're saying.

Alucardmike

"Insert crying Bosmer"

Khipu

"Insert another crying Bosmer"

Cundu_Ertur

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

This is tough. I really like the new woodelf racials, as I have made several builds for different classes in PvP using the bosmer and it really is working out. I feel for the PvE players and there have been a lot of changes and some more coming. Though with the dragons coming and if the game goes full skyrim, a lot of people will be happy and a lot will leave. For PvP I really do like the new bosmer but then again I mainly PvP and min max my characters for the harder content in PvE, so I change to what I need with no attachment.

The stamina change was great, it was a straight buff. The regen is about the same, maybe a bit better maybe a bit worse, depending on the exact build, I think. But what possible use have you had for Hunter's Eye? If you take your current build and take the 3 points out of Hunter's Eye, do you even notice the difference?

Tigerseye

Couldn't steal some decorative wax from a barrel in Murkmire today, without being seen; when I could normally steal from that barrel, before (albeit, with some difficulty).

Also, haven't seen one other Bosmer, today - not one.

ETA: Finally saw my first one, just now.

Wood Elves were never popular before, but they are now a total rarity.

Tigerseye

You know what would be nice?

If both Bosmer and Khajiit could choose whether they wanted increased stealth, or increased stealth detection.

Cundu_Ertur

Event tickets are tied to Heists this week. Looks like I need to brew up a bunch of invisibility + magicka buff pots (for NB cloak spamming).

Ratzkifal

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Event tickets are tied to Heists this week. Looks like I need to brew up a bunch of invisibility + magicka buff pots (for NB cloak spamming).

I'll do it on both my Khajiit and my Bosmer and then compare. I'll probably end up being able to do it undetected on both, but I am certain I'll be done with it way faster on my Khajiit (without using cloak).

Eiron77

Tigerseye wrote: »

You know what would be nice?

If both Bosmer and Khajiit could choose whether they wanted increased stealth, or increased stealth detection.

I could get onboard with this and I personally think it would be a great option. But I don't think ZOS wants to create a morph like effect for racials. Racial morphs could be really cool and open the doors for more roles with each race, but would become a lot more work to balance.

Kater_Murr

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Event tickets are tied to Heists this week. Looks like I need to brew up a bunch of invisibility + magicka buff pots (for NB cloak spamming).

Looks like I won't even bother logging at all, but I respect your struggle

P.S. Come to think of it, this upcoming event with its focus on sneaking activities is just a kick in the face for every player that made bosmer characters for this exact purpose.

anadandy

Kater_Murr wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Event tickets are tied to Heists this week. Looks like I need to brew up a bunch of invisibility + magicka buff pots (for NB cloak spamming).

Looks like I won't even bother logging at all, but I respect your struggle

P.S. Come to think of it, this upcoming event with its focus on sneaking activities is just a kick in the face for every player that made bosmer characters for this exact purpose.

Hey - maybe that's when they're going to reveal the great new stealth plan!

Man, I crack myself up.

Torbschka

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

This is tough. I really like the new woodelf racials, as I have made several builds for different classes in PvP using the bosmer and it really is working out. I feel for the PvE players and there have been a lot of changes and some more coming. Though with the dragons coming and if the game goes full skyrim, a lot of people will be happy and a lot will leave. For PvP I really do like the new bosmer but then again I mainly PvP and min max my characters for the harder content in PvE, so I change to what I need with no attachment.

Torbschka wrote: »

New bosmer is really strong in PvP , awesome for me.

@Girl_Number8 @Torbschka But is it the detection passive that makes it so good in PvP? I can't speak for all of us, but I think most people in here would be fine if the dodgeroll thing was kept as it is but the detection was reverted to being-detected radius reduction. I've done testing on this and 3meters sounds like much, because it is IRL, but it's nothing in ESO, especially when running around. You'll also never spot cloaked enemies with this just because the radius is impossibly small (half that of Mage Light, that's 75% less reveal area and you still can't target them.)

Hey, I wouldnt mind that either, since I ve never used bosmer for stealth at all. I do feel u lore/pve/rp guys though!

KMarble

Gibgarde wrote: »

My guess at this point is, they hear our feedback and intend to do something. It will likely be something we're not tossing around. My guess is an extension of legerdemian that would give us the same stealth we had before back, only everyone else can get it too. But that still means that bosmer are equal to most other races as far as their stealth goes...BUT if they let us trait into stealth via new traits enough, we'll be more than good enough at it without the need for a racial and they can keep the "invis peeking" racial we've been given to "keep them lore-friendly".

Would it be ideal? It depends on what kind of traits they toss in, if any. We could end up sneakier than before, along with everyone else, which I think would be great. We have 2 DLCs revolving around sneaking and right now we only have 1 race that can do it super well. They could fix this with Elswyr.

Pickpocketing all 3 items at once, better stealth, faster in stealth, things like that would make the sneakthief gameplay a lot more fun and accessible for those of us that are willing to dump about 15 more skill points into it.


Or they can leave stealth as-is and and only the flavor-of-the-month race (khajit) would be happy, which would not be so good.

I've been keeping an eye on this issue ever since the PTS for Warthstone was made available. IF they were planning on adding more stealth by means other than a racial skill line, they were disabused of the idea by the people who tested the 5m stealth on Khajiit (long story short, Khajiit's stealth was reduced to 3m on the second week because players were able to crouch in front of a guard, virtually stepping on their toes, and go undetected).

Giving Bosmers their stealth back by creating a new skill line which would be available to all races would bring the problem back - Khajiits who used skill points on this hypothetical skill would be undetectable.

I'm not a creative person, so it's possible that the devs will come up with some very creative way to deal with the stealth that was taken from the Bosmers in a way that isn't game-breaking. What I am good at is logic, and logic tells me that with the evidence and mechanics we have right now, a stealth skill line isn't a solution.

BlueRaven

KMarble wrote: »

Gibgarde wrote: »

My guess at this point is, they hear our feedback and intend to do something. It will likely be something we're not tossing around. My guess is an extension of legerdemian that would give us the same stealth we had before back, only everyone else can get it too. But that still means that bosmer are equal to most other races as far as their stealth goes...BUT if they let us trait into stealth via new traits enough, we'll be more than good enough at it without the need for a racial and they can keep the "invis peeking" racial we've been given to "keep them lore-friendly".

Would it be ideal? It depends on what kind of traits they toss in, if any. We could end up sneakier than before, along with everyone else, which I think would be great. We have 2 DLCs revolving around sneaking and right now we only have 1 race that can do it super well. They could fix this with Elswyr.

Pickpocketing all 3 items at once, better stealth, faster in stealth, things like that would make the sneakthief gameplay a lot more fun and accessible for those of us that are willing to dump about 15 more skill points into it.


Or they can leave stealth as-is and and only the flavor-of-the-month race (khajit) would be happy, which would not be so good.

I've been keeping an eye on this issue ever since the PTS for Warthstone was made available. IF they were planning on adding more stealth by means other than a racial skill line, they were disabused of the idea by the people who tested the 5m stealth on Khajiit (long story short, Khajiit's stealth was reduced to 3m on the second week because players were able to crouch in front of a guard, virtually stepping on their toes, and go undetected).

Giving Bosmers their stealth back by creating a new skill line which would be available to all races would bring the problem back - Khajiits who used skill points on this hypothetical skill would be undetectable.

I'm not a creative person, so it's possible that the devs will come up with some very creative way to deal with the stealth that was taken from the Bosmers in a way that isn't game-breaking. What I am good at is logic, and logic tells me that with the evidence and mechanics we have right now, a stealth skill line isn't a solution.

This is true and whole stumbling block of any future plans. How are they going to integrate any stealth change with the current racials, WITHOUT redoing the racials. It's a mystery.

Tasear

I

Seraphayel wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

No thanks, I'll take back my stealth thank you very much. A Bosmer without stealth is a Bosmer doom to be a Guard with an arrow in its knee.

Okay...

Until then, I guess...happy misery?

Until then, we give feedback until its fixed that's what.

Well then I hope you all have a very long breath to do this for months or even years. ZOS is very adamant when it comes about changes they settled with and Bosmer losing their Stealth racial seems like one. If you're clever you expect exactly nothing to happen in that regard (based on 5 years experience with ZOS).

🤔 We had racials change not even 2 years before. We have changes every quarter to different things as it's needed. So who knows how passionate people are.

Razorback174

Perfect timing for gutting Bosmer stealth with the thieves guild and dark brotherhood events.

"No stealth bonus? Can't do those heists as easily anymore with what used to be a thief character? That's ok! You can always just buy event tickets straight from the crown store now!"

Disgusting...

Alaya

You can't even buy the tickets yet: those come at the end of the month.

I miss my stealthy bosmer, the 3m detection bonus simply isn't worth anything, not even in PvP where you can use much better skills to find players. By the time you see the players, they're already on top of you, so what's the point?

The dodge roll is iffy. I've been utilizing it as I do dungeons and quests in DLC, but it's not an easy thing to use in a lot of places honestly.

Everything else they've given us is okay, we can live with it, but I really wish they'd revert their change to stealth instead of giving us another useless passive.

I'm sure many of you remember when they gave us that fall damage reduction. Guess this means we can just roll ourselves off cliffs faster.

BlueRaven

Alaya wrote: »

I'm sure many of you remember when they gave us that fall damage reduction. Guess this means we can just roll ourselves off cliffs faster.

This made me laugh. Thank you!

Yeah, I guess bosmers learned to mitigate their fall damage from all the times they rolled off their tree branches. After all if you leave in the trees there is always plenty of space to roll around.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Tigerseye wrote: »

Also, haven't seen one other Bosmer, today - not one.

.

Looks like their stealth is working then...

A_Silverius

More Bosmers are gonna start wishing they got their stealth back come the TG/DB event.

BlueRaven

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

anadandy

Ugh, that stinks.

I ran my Bosmer through VVardenfall to finish up the "Ancestral Tomb Hunter" achievement (I was a librarian in a former life, so having that title amuses me). I was able to do it but I have to say, it was much more irritating because every stupid nix hound and other trash saw me and I had to waste time killing them.

Yeah, first Tamriel problems but it just made me more annoyed about the whole thing than ever.

A_Silverius

BlueRaven wrote: »

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

I've got bad news for you, Captain Marvel reviews aren't that great https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154664/ If the movie is truly mediocre, you might end up thinking about Bosmer stealth and get depressed again. Not to mention that the Skrulls are also pointy eared and have natural stealth abilities just like the Bosmeri. https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Skrull