Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

BlueRaven

A_Silverius wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

I've got bad news for you, Captain Marvel reviews aren't that great https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154664/ If the movie is truly mediocre, you might end up thinking about Bosmer stealth and get depressed again. Not to mention that the Skrulls are also pointy eared and have natural stealth abilities just like the Bosmeri. https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Skrull

I like Marvel movies, and I am going with friends who don't know anything about Elves beyond Tolkien or Warhammer.
I think a lot of the bad press is just people upset about a female lead (which does not bother me at all).

To be honest this whole Bosmer thing has really cooled me on ESO. I have started playing skyrim again, and who knows, I may even take a second look at Fallout 76 (of just play FO4). I think my plans will truly be set after my experiences in Boston.

A_Silverius

BlueRaven wrote: »

Warhammer.

To be honest this whole Bosmer thing has really cooled me on ESO. I have started playing skyrim again, and who knows, I may even take a second look at Fallout 76 (of just play FO4). I think my plans will truly be set after my experiences in Boston.

Speaking of warhammer, I just started a character on the Warhammer Online: Return of Reckoning private server and I'm having a blast Its still in the alpha phase so a handful of quests are quite buggy but its f2p, non-p2w, decent population and the world pvp is probably the best that ever existed in the mmo genre despite it being a private server. Maybe try that until ZOS gives back our stealth?

BlueRaven

@A_Silverius Oh! I was talking about Warhammer the table top war game not a video game. lol

(We also fool around with the Total War version as well though.)

Hand_Bacon

@A_Silverius

Warhammer was such a missed opportunity and what a great IP, too bad they let Blizzard have it to start the Warcraft IP instead of running with it themselves. I played the IP's miniature game back in the 80's and 90's. I still paint for commissions when I'm bored.

A big group of us from Dark Age of Camelot and WoW were ready to go with Warhammer...but then they screwed the endgame so badly...

Arato

A_Silverius wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

THE Question: Wouldn't it be a good thing to encourage the use of "band-aids" to help people handicapped by this change, either until its changed again or at least to continue to enjoy that part of the game?

Thanks for the suggestion, but this "band-aid" solution means nothing if you were already stacking reduced stealth radius sets with the racial passive. Bosmers till screwed

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus. So it's pretty insulting when people try to suggest using the stealth set bonuses that we were already using. I know these people don't MEAN to be insulting but that's how it comes across. Like if an escalator stops working someone leans over and says "you know you can still walk up them like stairs!" Yeah gee thanks buddy I never would have figured that out without your expert advice.

Makes you want to slap the taste out of someone's mouth.

Jaraal

Arato wrote: »

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus.

Yes, it's not like you can reach the stealth cap with racial bonus only. All my thieves (both Bosmer and Khajiit) had to purchase the medium armor stealth passive, the racial passive, and wear one armor set (3 pc bonus from Night Terror) to reach the detection cap. With the new nerf, my Bosmer has to give up his second armor set (Remove sneak speed penalty bonus from Night's Silence set) and wear a 5 pc set of Night Mother's Embrace. So no, I'm not going to steal at half speed just because somebody at ZOS decided Bosmer lore was not important. My Bosmer main is permanently retired from the Thieves Guild active roster, and spends his days cleaning toilets and mopping floors in the Thieves Den in Hew's Bane.

Ratzkifal

BlueRaven wrote: »

To be honest this whole Bosmer thing has really cooled me on ESO. I have started playing skyrim again, and who knows, I may even take a second look at Fallout 76 (of just play FO4). I think my plans will truly be set after my experiences in Boston.

Same. Since I already got 10 tickets, I was thinking of skipping this event. Daily log in rewards won't keep me playing either as my tank has to burn through 700 crown tri-stat potions first and that won't happen when I am not playing anyway. I dropped Elder Scrolls Legends because I really disliked the new theme, but at least it's not lore breaking - just breaking the feeling of the game. I might return to that and Skyrim or perhaps buy Anno 1800 once it releases and play that. I'll stay for now and maybe flesh out our comprehensive list of arguments further. The lore part is not really done yet and I haven't even added the Thousand Benefits of Hiding source in it I think.

All that because ZOS insisted on paying no attention to their community!

Edit: Btw, I got no answer on my support ticket. That's what I get for putting it under "feedback".

Hand_Bacon

Arato wrote: »

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus. So it's pretty insulting when people try to suggest using the stealth set bonuses that we were already using. I know these people don't MEAN to be insulting but that's how it comes across. Like if an escalator stops working someone leans over and says "you know you can still walk up them like stairs!" Yeah gee thanks buddy I never would have figured that out without your expert advice.

Makes you want to slap the taste out of someone's mouth.

lol Insulting? Slap somebody? Put the Bosmer down and walk away slowly...

Its not only a suggestion, its the reality now until further notice so "gettin' yer dander up" over it is kinda silly.


EDIT: Although I like your analogy, if I see somebody sit down halfway up a stuck escalator, pouting or fretting that they won't reach the top...I'll let them know they can walk up the rest of the way. Maybe their principle is that since its now IMPOSSIBLE to make it to the top, management should come carry them.

BlueRaven

Arato wrote: »

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus.

I was one of those people.

I played my Bosmer as a hero, and while I started the theives guild and assassins guild quests on her, I ended up doing the full quest chains on other characters.

I remember killing that random person on the Gold Coast with her and immediately regretting it (and having my guild mates laughing at my long sigh in discord).

Now for my assassin and my thief I did make special gear for them, but my Bosmer relied on her natural stealthiness.

Why?

A ) I am not a fan of carrying multiple sets.

B ) The natural stealth of bosmers was perfect for me. It gave me the extra defense for my rare forays into Cyrodiil. And it let me explore delves and public dungeons, while having the power to burn things down if I needed it. (She is a bit of a glass cannon.)

I am not sure what I am going to do now. She is definitely my main, but the things I loved to do with her in solo play has been seriously crippled.

I don’t know, I am highly disappointed.

Cundu_Ertur

I used Night Silence for moving in stealth, since vampire is a change in form and so against the pact; and played around with other craftable sets to find something that worked with it. I didn't want to grind for anything. So I just had the 3m Bosmer stealth bonus.

Now I'm forced to grind for sets to make up for losing what Bosmer should always have. Currently running Night Silence+NME weapons and jewels; Alessia bulwark head and shoulder, on the off chance I ever get a monster set; thinking about shacklebreaker instead. I'll eventually have Hunding's+Spriggan's weapons and jewels for backup; just finished grinding the spriggans (though I may keep looking for a blue or purple ring to replace the green one I have), need to make the Hunding's at some point once my tempers recover.

I have yet to have had any situation where the useless new garbage passive would have been useful, so those 3 skill points still sit, unused.

Eiron77

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

BlueRaven

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

Cundu_Ertur

BlueRaven wrote: »

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

In my not-all-all-humble opinion it should be a completely new passive: Stealthy F'n Archer: 1/2/3m hiding bonus, +32/64/128 damage with bows, 2/3/4% reduced cost for bow abilities.

That's half the redguard bonus (which is for all weapons) and half the Orc/Dunmer weapon bonus (for all weapons), but only for bows. Right now Bosmer don't have ANY ability that the lore says they should have. Bosmer are supposed to be the best archers, and that's not the case -- Orcs, Dunmer, and even Redguards are better. Bosmer are supposed to be stealthy and that's not the case. Honestly, this game no longer has any Bosmer in it at all.

Eiron77

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

Right. And in your guild where you're not attempting top tier content and racial choice shouldn't matter, you were still hounded a bit about by being a Bosmer for stamina DPS. My main concern is this becoming a trend. Hopefully it doesn't, because that sucks for those players in those situations. The masses can get mean at times about race/class reputation parsing low, even if it is not by much.

Hunter's Eye had so much potential to be something great, without it being a DPS trait. And because it's not, you're right. Bosmers are not getting any boost from 1 of 3 traits (with the exception of Dark Elf). I think they really need something that empowers their skill with bow and/or ranged attacks. Right now we have Imperials sneaking better than Bosmers, and Redguards essentially have better skill with bows because reduced cost of weapon attacks--which includes bows.

So here's what I think would've been the best tweaks to the current patch:

- Altmers keep their restoration to Magicka after using a class ability (or at the very least restore both Mag/Stam, maybe a reduced amount for balance)
- Nords gain Ultimate from dealing damage, instead of taking damage (to not pigeon-hole them completely into a tank only race)
- Khajits keep their bonus to Crit chance (instead of damage to crits)
- Bosmers Hunter's Eye: Reduced detection radius while in stealth, damage/healing to crits increased, roll dodge increases movement speed temporarily. (Maybe for balancing limit the crit bonus to ranged wpn/spl attacks only. Heck, you could even keep the stealth detection bonus + sneak bonus in this case, because the extra crit damage wouldnt happen at 3m).

It would've kept these races close to the originals, stayed in line with the first patch release that more players were happy with, not pigeon-holed Bosmers' into a PvP race, and stayed within ZOS' goals for the racial rebalancing.

BlueRaven

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

Right. And in your guild where you're not attempting top tier content and racial choice shouldn't matter, you were still hounded a bit about by being a Bosmer for stamina DPS. My main concern is this becoming a trend. Hopefully it doesn't, because that sucks for those players in those situations. The masses can get mean at times about race/class reputation parsing low, even if it is not by much.

Hunter's Eye had so much potential to be something great, without it being a DPS trait. And because it's not, you're right. Bosmers are not getting any boost from 1 of 3 traits (with the exception of Dark Elf). I think they really need something that empowers their skill with bow and/or ranged attacks. Right now we have Imperials sneaking better than Bosmers, and Redguards essentially have better skill with bows because reduced cost of weapon attacks--which includes bows.

So here's what I think would've been the best tweaks to the current patch:

- Altmers keep their restoration to Magicka after using a class ability (or at the very least restore both Mag/Stam, maybe a reduced amount for balance)
- Nords gain Ultimate from dealing damage, instead of taking damage (to not pigeon-hole them completely into a tank only race)
- Khajits keep their bonus to Crit chance (instead of damage to crits)
- Bosmers Hunter's Eye: Reduced detection radius while in stealth, damage/healing to crits increased, roll dodge increases movement speed temporarily. (Maybe for balancing limit the crit bonus to ranged wpn/spl attacks only. Heck, you could even keep the stealth detection bonus + sneak bonus in this case, because the extra crit damage wouldnt happen at 3m).

It would've kept these races close to the originals, stayed in line with the first patch release that more players were happy with, not pigeon-holed Bosmers' into a PvP race, and stayed within ZOS' goals for the racial rebalancing.

Hounded is not quite the term I would use, it was more like a group of people offering advice even though I was not asking for it.

Have you ever met older relatives who start giving you advice about your job or money, then start talking to each other about your situation as if you were not sitting right there? It was more like that.

Friendly advice that is not asked for.

I am hoping all this will pass by Saturday,
I had asked the trial leader tonight if my staying a Bosmer would be an issue and they said of course not.

However, I think the meta that everyone seems to be adopting is that bosmers are on the lower end of the dps scale.

But will it become like WoW where they would boot people from a dungeon because they were an arms warrior or something like that? No, probably not.

MartiniDaniels

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

So six 35k dps parses in BiS gear somehow prove... nothing? And Imperial on first place while orc on last...
If we will name things honestly, bosmer received quite good buff as stamina dps in comparison to murkmire. Why? Because redguard was relatively nerfed (2000 stam << 9%) and bosmer relatively buffed (258 recovery >> then 21% until your recovery reaches 2.5-3k) and if not for orc 4.3.2 buff all stamina races would be in near ideal balance (from PVE dps view)

BlueRaven

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

So six 35k dps parses in BiS gear somehow prove... nothing? And Imperial on first place while orc on last...
If we will name things honestly, bosmer received quite good buff as stamina dps in comparison to murkmire. Why? Because redguard was relatively nerfed (2000 stam << 9%) and bosmer relatively buffed (258 recovery >> then 21% until your recovery reaches 2.5-3k) and if not for orc 4.3.2 buff all stamina races would be in near ideal balance (from PVE dps view)

I am not 100% following what you are saying. You seem to be objecting to something I said and I am not sure why.
I think you saw the average dps parse (where bosmers came in 5th) and stopped, if you keep going you can see their full conclusion.

Basically the video claims the best stam dps races are orc and dark elf. But they also went on to say unless you are in a cutting edge guild, choose what you want.
Which is what I was trying to say.

I am not saying that bosmers did not get a dps boost, they did. And I am not saying that their dps is awful, it is not.
I feel Bosmer dps is just ok. It still trails, but it’s fine.

I am just relating a story about what happened during a trial group.

(Also before we get off track this is a thread about stealth. )

What I am trying to say is that there is nothing “WOW!” about bosmers. Before any failings could be offset with the fact that at least bosmers had great stealth. Now that is gone and without stealth the race feels flat,

MartiniDaniels

BlueRaven wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

So six 35k dps parses in BiS gear somehow prove... nothing? And Imperial on first place while orc on last...
If we will name things honestly, bosmer received quite good buff as stamina dps in comparison to murkmire. Why? Because redguard was relatively nerfed (2000 stam << 9%) and bosmer relatively buffed (258 recovery >> then 21% until your recovery reaches 2.5-3k) and if not for orc 4.3.2 buff all stamina races would be in near ideal balance (from PVE dps view)

I am not 100% following what you are saying. You seem to be objecting to something I said and I am not sure why.
I think you saw the average dps parse (where bosmers came in 5th) and stopped, if you keep going you can see their full conclusion.

Basically the video claims the best stam dps races are orc and dark elf. But they also went on to say unless you are in a cutting edge guild, choose what you want.
Which is what I was trying to say.

I am not saying that bosmers did not get a dps boost, they did. And I am not saying that their dps is awful, it is not.
I feel Bosmer dps is just ok. It still trails, but it’s fine.

I am just relating a story about what happened during a trial group.

(Also before we get off track this is a thread about stealth. )

What I am trying to say is that there is nothing “WOW!” about bosmers. Before any failings could be offset with the fact that at least bosmers had great stealth. Now that is gone and without stealth the race feels flat,

I just mean that video is not representative because it has low number of parses and dps in this parses is mediocre for BiS gear used. Bosmers are ok as stamdps now, while in Murkmire they were much weaker then redguards and khajiits.

Did bosmer lost racial identity with lack of stealth? Yes.
Bosmer healers and tanks received nothing? Yes.
Was PVP bosmer or PVE stamdps bosmer nerfed or is stagnating in wrathstone? No, they were buffed if they were not gank-snipers.

Uryel

Mpf. Event based on stealth just after we lost stealth. That's a low blow, ZOS

At least my wife will no longer live 300 km away, I don't have to play every evening now. Losing my favorite gameplay on my favorite character did certainly do something to make me want to play less.

Sure, with the new gear I can sneak, somewhat. But it does feel off, and I don't like it

Korlian

And another thing. I was looking forward to this Thieves Guild / Dark Brotherhood event. These things was difficult enough with the stealth bonus. Now, without it... I don't feel like even doing it. In fact, I've been playing other games instead despite wanting to play ESO just cause I'm so bummed out this turned my playstyle upside down and I'm not having fun on my character anymore. And... I'm not having as much fun in those either because I actually do want to play ESO xD

"But you can race change to a Khajiit". I don't want to be one? I don't like being one, nor do I like tails. I happen to want to play my Bosmer that I've grown so attached to, thank you very much and no amount of race change tokens can change that.

"Learn to adapt to the new playstyle then." Well, that's like trying to force yourself to be something you're not. Tried it already, even in ESO, and plenty of other games. I just can't, I'm a stealth guy, it's just who I am, I'm sorry?

Fun fact: If it wasn't for Bosmers, I probably might not have played this game as much as I do. In fact, I probably would only have played it briefly and then quit despite being a huge TES fan in general. Bosmer and Khajiit were the two stealth options, and lucky for me there was an option. Had it been Khajiit only, yeah, I probably would not have played this game due to something as silly as I just can't handle the tail thing, nor to be an animal race either I guess. Strange how big of an impact these seemingly small things can have on someones playstyle and enjoyment of something.

BlueRaven

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

So six 35k dps parses in BiS gear somehow prove... nothing? And Imperial on first place while orc on last...
If we will name things honestly, bosmer received quite good buff as stamina dps in comparison to murkmire. Why? Because redguard was relatively nerfed (2000 stam << 9%) and bosmer relatively buffed (258 recovery >> then 21% until your recovery reaches 2.5-3k) and if not for orc 4.3.2 buff all stamina races would be in near ideal balance (from PVE dps view)

I am not 100% following what you are saying. You seem to be objecting to something I said and I am not sure why.
I think you saw the average dps parse (where bosmers came in 5th) and stopped, if you keep going you can see their full conclusion.

Basically the video claims the best stam dps races are orc and dark elf. But they also went on to say unless you are in a cutting edge guild, choose what you want.
Which is what I was trying to say.

I am not saying that bosmers did not get a dps boost, they did. And I am not saying that their dps is awful, it is not.
I feel Bosmer dps is just ok. It still trails, but it’s fine.

I am just relating a story about what happened during a trial group.

(Also before we get off track this is a thread about stealth. )

What I am trying to say is that there is nothing “WOW!” about bosmers. Before any failings could be offset with the fact that at least bosmers had great stealth. Now that is gone and without stealth the race feels flat,

I just mean that video is not representative because it has low number of parses and dps in this parses is mediocre for BiS gear used. Bosmers are ok as stamdps now, while in Murkmire they were much weaker then redguards and khajiits.

Did bosmer lost racial identity with lack of stealth? Yes.
Bosmer healers and tanks received nothing? Yes.
Was PVP bosmer or PVE stamdps bosmer nerfed or is stagnating in wrathstone? No, they were buffed if they were not gank-snipers.

Again I was not very clear, and I apologize. There is nothing incorrect about what you are saying. I just gave one example, the video, when I should have given multiple examples. But again I did not want this to stray too much into dps when this was a forum thread about stealth.

I think (again) I have also mischaracterized our group. We are traders first, I would character us as a middle ground between a casual (normal) trial group and a hard core vet trial group.

And I think I wanted to characterize what the perception is of bosmers and not the actual numbers right now. And to be honest the sample size (our trial group) is small. But this was the prevailing thought in the group, that I was making it harder on myself for playing a Bosmer.

A link that was sent to me in discord was for Alcast.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-race-guide-elder-scrolls-online/

Here is what their recommendations are;

”Stamina Damage Dealer

Best choice: Orc, Redguard, Dark Elf, Kahjiit

As a stamina damage dealer Orcs have the best stats, followed up by races like Redguards, Dark Elves and Khajiits. All are viable choices, so you can pick whichever race you like the most.”


Notice that bosmers are not even mentioned as a recommendation. But if you go to the Bosmer section it does not have anything bad to say about them.

Which again is what my feelings are about them. They are fine, and that is the best I can say about them.

Alcast is the page that was most referenced to that night. And is where most of us get our info from. I also think it’s through sites like this that there is a trickle down of perception of what is best.

anadandy

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

In my not-all-all-humble opinion it should be a completely new passive: Stealthy F'n Archer: 1/2/3m hiding bonus, +32/64/128 damage with bows, 2/3/4% reduced cost for bow abilities.

That's half the redguard bonus (which is for all weapons) and half the Orc/Dunmer weapon bonus (for all weapons), but only for bows. Right now Bosmer don't have ANY ability that the lore says they should have. Bosmer are supposed to be the best archers, and that's not the case -- Orcs, Dunmer, and even Redguards are better. Bosmer are supposed to be stealthy and that's not the case. Honestly, this game no longer has any Bosmer in it at all.

I totally agree, but I think the reason they won't do something like this is the rampant gankphobia. Archers=gankers, Stealth=gankers - drives me crazy. I mean I hate getting ganked as much as the next person, but crippling Bosmer isn't going to change that.

Hand_Bacon

As much as I agree with different points being made here, I don't see them changing it.

Remember all the outrage, some blatantly fake outrage, over Crown Crates and how there was going to be a mass exodus? Well, most of those people are still here and the game keeps on moving forward.

Night_Wolf2112

I totally play less already thanks to them ruining bosmers...... I most like will be gone once TES VI drops if stealth never comes back to the RACE, not just "easier access for everyone".

Cundu_Ertur

BlueRaven wrote: »

…
A link that was sent to me in discord was for Alcast.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-race-guide-elder-scrolls-online/

Here is what their recommendations are;

”Stamina Damage Dealer

Best choice: Orc, Redguard, Dark Elf, Kahjiit

As a stamina damage dealer Orcs have the best stats, followed up by races like Redguards, Dark Elves and Khajiits. All are viable choices, so you can pick whichever race you like the most.”


Notice that bosmers are not even mentioned as a recommendation. But if you go to the Bosmer section it does not have anything bad to say about them.

Which again is what my feelings are about them. They are fine, and that is the best I can say about them.

Alcast is the page that was most referenced to that night. And is where most of us get our info from. I also think it’s through sites like this that there is a trickle down of perception of what is best.

There's a simple reason why, they all have some kind of permanent bonus to damage or a reduced cost for abilities. Bosmer don't. Bosmer get a highly conditional boost to penetration.

MartiniDaniels

BlueRaven wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

So I had a depressing trial run last night.

(Background first: Our guild (and its sister guild) are primarily trading guilds that do social activities on the side. We also have housing contests, wb nights, trivia, and we have several trial groups.

One of the trial groups is a more experienced group. We do hard modes (CR+3 norm, etc) and vet trials.

We took a week off because of the weapon swapping issue and last night was our first time we all met up since the patch.)

Well my Bosmer became a big topic of conversation last night mostly because, well, she is still a Bosmer.

I had to sit through, well;
“Aren’t they a PvP race now?”
“Well I changed my Bosmer to...”
“Are bosmers BiS for anything PvE related?”
And “I am surprised you did not switch, want me to link you some sites so you can see what options you have?”

And then the conversation turned to stealth because we are a trading guild and a lot of people get their income via stealing.

So then the conversation became;
“I made my thief a kahjit.”
And how apparently there is now no other choice.

It was a long night.

Luckily we are not a hard core group and we managed to do some progress last night, but there was a lot of Bosmer talk in the down times. I don’t think they are going to require me to switch or anything. But I wonder how long I am going to have to sit through stuff like that.

Our next meet up is tomorrow, but luckily I have captain marvel tickets so I don’t have to sit through that again so soon. Hopefully by this Saturday the “novelty” of having a Bosmer will have gone away.

Regarding the bolded portion; I thought these racial changes were supposed to be balanced?

Sarcasm aside, if the bolded portion becomes a trend, then ZOS really failed the Bosmers and really did corner them to PvP content only. Hopefully that's not the case, so that those who do continue playing Bosmers can enjoy the content they want.

Ironically, I left WoW a couple months ago because of the similar thing Blizzard did to DPS druids. Got turned down for Mythics a lot, because I wasnt BiS DPS or even a CiS (Competitor in Slot--I just made that up). So, I came back to ZoS and was telling friends how nice it was to come back to ESO and my character was still the same after all these years (albeit a few tweaks and minor changes along the way).

To be fair I don't think the dps for Bosmers are that bad, just not remarkable, but I have yet to see a parse where they are either not last or close to last for PvE.

Here is an example;

https://youtu.be/Fy1OYOiOd98

(Results come about 17 min in.) Wood elves came in last out of the 6 stam races tested.

For what we (our guilds) do, it's fine. But I doubt you will see any bosmers in the cutting edge guilds. I think the issue is that the better dps parsing races have all three racials working for them, but bosmers (And Altmers) are really running on two out of three.

I am not saying hunters eye should be a dps boost, but it should be something useful that is in support of the other two.

So along with better stealth, maybe instead of the armor pen, it could be a cost reduction for the roll. This way bosmers can do it and still have the stamina for dps. (Just an off the top of my head suggestion.)
Then again this cost reduction would not help single target dps parses like the one shown in the video, so who knows.

So six 35k dps parses in BiS gear somehow prove... nothing? And Imperial on first place while orc on last...
If we will name things honestly, bosmer received quite good buff as stamina dps in comparison to murkmire. Why? Because redguard was relatively nerfed (2000 stam << 9%) and bosmer relatively buffed (258 recovery >> then 21% until your recovery reaches 2.5-3k) and if not for orc 4.3.2 buff all stamina races would be in near ideal balance (from PVE dps view)

I am not 100% following what you are saying. You seem to be objecting to something I said and I am not sure why.
I think you saw the average dps parse (where bosmers came in 5th) and stopped, if you keep going you can see their full conclusion.

Basically the video claims the best stam dps races are orc and dark elf. But they also went on to say unless you are in a cutting edge guild, choose what you want.
Which is what I was trying to say.

I am not saying that bosmers did not get a dps boost, they did. And I am not saying that their dps is awful, it is not.
I feel Bosmer dps is just ok. It still trails, but it’s fine.

I am just relating a story about what happened during a trial group.

(Also before we get off track this is a thread about stealth. )

What I am trying to say is that there is nothing “WOW!” about bosmers. Before any failings could be offset with the fact that at least bosmers had great stealth. Now that is gone and without stealth the race feels flat,

I just mean that video is not representative because it has low number of parses and dps in this parses is mediocre for BiS gear used. Bosmers are ok as stamdps now, while in Murkmire they were much weaker then redguards and khajiits.

Did bosmer lost racial identity with lack of stealth? Yes.
Bosmer healers and tanks received nothing? Yes.
Was PVP bosmer or PVE stamdps bosmer nerfed or is stagnating in wrathstone? No, they were buffed if they were not gank-snipers.

Again I was not very clear, and I apologize. There is nothing incorrect about what you are saying. I just gave one example, the video, when I should have given multiple examples. But again I did not want this to stray too much into dps when this was a forum thread about stealth.

I think (again) I have also mischaracterized our group. We are traders first, I would character us as a middle ground between a casual (normal) trial group and a hard core vet trial group.

And I think I wanted to characterize what the perception is of bosmers and not the actual numbers right now. And to be honest the sample size (our trial group) is small. But this was the prevailing thought in the group, that I was making it harder on myself for playing a Bosmer.

A link that was sent to me in discord was for Alcast.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-race-guide-elder-scrolls-online/

Here is what their recommendations are;

”Stamina Damage Dealer

Best choice: Orc, Redguard, Dark Elf, Kahjiit

As a stamina damage dealer Orcs have the best stats, followed up by races like Redguards, Dark Elves and Khajiits. All are viable choices, so you can pick whichever race you like the most.”


Notice that bosmers are not even mentioned as a recommendation. But if you go to the Bosmer section it does not have anything bad to say about them.

Which again is what my feelings are about them. They are fine, and that is the best I can say about them.

Alcast is the page that was most referenced to that night. And is where most of us get our info from. I also think it’s through sites like this that there is a trickle down of perception of what is best.

Yep, I live on Alcast's site and though i don't copy his builds to 100% but I always use them as base reference to start with so I read it all over ton of times. And before bosmer was not even in "secondary recommended" races for any build other then bow ganker PVP, now he is right there together with other 5 races.

I agree that bosmer lacks his "feature" and that roll-dodge thing is too narrow for majority of players. So as for now all we can do is continue to run 'Bosmer cornerclub' in this thread and maybe ZOS will see it when there will be 200 pages or similar

Korlian

Night_Wolf2112 wrote: »

I totally play less already thanks to them ruining bosmers...... I most like will be gone once TES VI drops if stealth never comes back to the RACE, not just "easier access for everyone".

It won't. TESVI is not made by the same company.

wedgebert

Korlian wrote: »

Night_Wolf2112 wrote: »

I totally play less already thanks to them ruining bosmers...... I most like will be gone once TES VI drops if stealth never comes back to the RACE, not just "easier access for everyone".

It won't. TESVI is not made by the same company.

No, it's made by the same people who made Fallout 76

KMarble

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Yeah I don't know of anyone who did stealth based gameplay who relied ONLY on the racial trait, almost everyone ran with at least one additional stealth set bonus. So it's pretty insulting when people try to suggest using the stealth set bonuses that we were already using. I know these people don't MEAN to be insulting but that's how it comes across. Like if an escalator stops working someone leans over and says "you know you can still walk up them like stairs!" Yeah gee thanks buddy I never would have figured that out without your expert advice.

Makes you want to slap the taste out of someone's mouth.

lol Insulting? Slap somebody? Put the Bosmer down and walk away slowly...

Its not only a suggestion, its the reality now until further notice so "gettin' yer dander up" over it is kinda silly.


EDIT: Although I like your analogy, if I see somebody sit down halfway up a stuck escalator, pouting or fretting that they won't reach the top...I'll let them know they can walk up the rest of the way. Maybe their principle is that since its now IMPOSSIBLE to make it to the top, management should come carry them.

You seem to have an interesting quirk that gives you selective reading so that you can claim that most of us here are behaving like spoiled brats throwing a fit.

Why do you (now - previously you're nitpicking on other details that you, unintentionally or not, misinterpreted) claim we are refusing to adapt? Or is it that the only way you think anyone playing a stealthy wood elf can adapt is to race change to Khajiit?

I have a NB Khajiit that was created a few months ago so that I could experience another way of being a thief. My wood elf had extra stealth, my Khajiit has extra sticky fingers. I was looking forward learning a different play style with the NB. (Ironically, my Khajiit, created before any announcement from ZOS, looks a lot like the one Khajiit in the trailer)

I do not want another Khajiit. I want the diversity we had before the patch. And again, because apparently this is hard to understand, I have no problem whatsoever with any other of the racial skills for wood elves. My (and all the others) complaint is about taking stealth away from wood elves.

Hand_Bacon

Talk about selective reading or not understanding...

KMarble wrote: »

You seem to have an interesting quirk that gives you selective reading so that you can claim that most of us here are behaving like spoiled brats throwing a fit.

Don't write things in a dramatic fashion if you don't want to be seen as dramatic.

KMarble wrote: »

Why do you (now - previously you're nitpicking on other details that you, unintentionally or not, misinterpreted) claim we are refusing to adapt? Or is it that the only way you think anyone playing a stealthy wood elf can adapt is to race change to Khajiit?

I wasn't saying anyone was refusing, I was saying that for now, I hope people continue to adapt so they can find away to continue to enjoy their characters in some fashion. I've repeatedly stated this. What could possibly be wrong with that? You can't live in the past if you want to play in the present. Do you just want everyone affected to feel the misery you all previously tried to project? I nitpicked over the top dramatic hyperbole.

KMarble wrote: »

I have a NB Khajiit that was created a few months ago so that I could experience another way of being a thief. My wood elf had extra stealth, my Khajiit has extra sticky fingers. I was looking forward learning a different play style with the NB. (Ironically, my Khajiit, created before any announcement from ZOS, looks a lot like the one Khajiit in the trailer)

I have one as well. I recently switched mine over to a mag NB to mess around in a different fashion and also go for speed on these dailies.

KMarble wrote: »

I do not want another Khajiit. I want the diversity we had before the patch. And again, because apparently this is hard to understand, I have no problem whatsoever with any other of the racial skills for wood elves. My (and all the others) complaint is about taking stealth away from wood elves.

I've never misunderstood that, in fact you all seem to be repeating the same thing over and over and over again as if the point hasn't been driven home yet. I've stated time and time and time again that I wouldn't mind the old bonus coming back, but I wasn't ready to necessarily throw in the towel on the new changes. What possible objection could you have to that?

The only thing that is hard to comprehend is that people take such an issue with any dissent about this change. Not even dissent really merely not wanting everyone to feel like has to be all 1's and 0's for Bosmer as some of you continue to state in essence, "There can be NO JOY unless we get this back!"

You've made your case and I will never peddle in misery. Most recently I stated the current reality and just like that...I'm a heretic.


Why don't you take issue with things that make no sense, like the analogy I was talking about? Is it because you're okay with nonsense as long as its in the affirmative of your position. @Ratzkifal has done a great job putting together a credible plea, but if you don't police the affirmative you weaken it.