max_only wrote: »

Just change it to

Increases your stealth reduction radius by 3 meters
Increases your movement speed by 10% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 1500 for 6 seconds after you use Roll Dodge.

From

Increases your stealth detection radius by 3 meters
Increases your movement speed by 10% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 1500 for 6 seconds after you use Roll Dodge.

One word will make all the difference. Please.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@zos_gilliam

Seriously - it's literally this easy.

I can't see how is it balancing racials. its just nerfing some races and buffing others. Sad day for the bosmer, sad day indeed when they wake up and realised they just have been hit with the nerf hammer.


I hope it will change, but who knows.

Copying this over from a thread in PTS.

heaven13 wrote: »

If you compare the little racial blurbs in live to PTS, they've even gone in and changed those. Bosmer used to say they were good at stealth. Now it's limited to stealth detection, while adding in the "gifted hunters" bit to push the agenda. I'm sorry, but this is probably the change I am most upset about. I'll adapt to all the other changes but my Bosmer losing the core of her identity is not acceptable to me.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I've had some iteration of her since closed beta. She was made because of Bosmer lore: sneak thief archers. It's what I've always played. Now I'll need to rely on upcoming (soon™), undisclosed changes to stealth gameplay in general - which all races will have access to - and gear set bonuses to achieve a similar ability. Those that used the gear set bonuses on top of Bosmer passives to excel during heists and sacraments will either have to suck it up or become a furry. No thanks.

Stealth detection has no use in PVE. None. Even the developers have said as much. It's not even entirely useful in Cyrodiil due to the range, which people more knowledgeable than myself have covered. It's an asinine change that severely damages a core PVE aspect of this race with no reason especially given that it had limited use in actual group content (as far as I know, there wasn't an issue with Bosmer stealthing during a trial boss to do some kind of insane damage that other races couldn't compete with). IF the issue was the extra damage from stealth being too OP in Cyrodiil, reduce the damage done from stealth but leave the damn stealth radius in place.

I wonder how many more will quit come Feb 25th. People in game who don’t read the forums are in for a rude suprise.

If the Bosmer stealth nerf goes live it will show either an absolutely incredible disconnect (or just plain disregard) by ZOS to their players. Neither of which are traits you would look for when contemplating supporting a developer.

Well, they’re making it easier and easier for me to keep my sub off the table and ignore future purchases (don’t have Summerset or Elsweyr). I won’t quit over this, no, but I will continue to stress their servers and not give them any more money for the far forseeable future.

From initial racial balance notes:

A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other.

So Wood Elf drew the short straw, I guess. But was the removal of the stealth reduction really necessary to make the two races distinct? Aren't the rest of the changes, along with the renames, distinctive enough without gutting Bosmer identity? Is it so game breaking to revert Stealth Detection back to Stealth Reduction and give players options?

Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead.

Except they didn't. They built it into Khajiit passives (Feline Ambush) but Bosmer got saddled with Stealth Detection which directly contradicts the "since sneaking isn't a universal mechanic" reason. Stealth detection is even less of a universal mechanic - they even admit it - nothing sneaks in PVE.

4.3.2 Patch notes:

We heard your concerns of adding in a highly powerful movement speed bonus tied to Roll Dodging, as well as the performance of this passive in PvE versus PvP environments. We wanted players who are focused on damage to get a small boost out of this in situations where they dodge attacks, without adding more passive power to the race.

This is mostly ok, even if I personally dislike the roll dodge passive. It does not, however, address the concerns raised about Stealth Detection and its lack of utility outside of PVP. They mention looking at the roll dodge in these terms, so why was the problem with Stealth Detection ignored? How would having stealth reduction "add more passive power"?

Class rep meeting notes:

Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before.

First - I want to be clear that my frustration to the response is in no way directed at the class reps. That said, this response is essentially a non-answer. If some greater plan is coming for stealth, why did only Bosmer get the hammer? Why not remove it from both races (not advocating this) or leave it until the solution is ready?

You know what else would allow Bosmer to have the nice combat buff while still having avenues to be as stealthy as before? Change stealth detection back to the stealth radius bonus - boom, done.

Those are just the official remarks. Others I have heard are:

"Players who don't use stealth felt this was a useless passive"
Fair enough. But the solution is to replace it with something even more useless? And what, people who did find it useful can pound sand unless they PVP? Wouldn't the more equitable solution have been to add the roll dodge passive and leave the stealth reduction alone? That way people who find it useful are happy and people who don't get a damage/movement buff and are also happy. Win-win, right?

"Stealth is only used by gankers"
Yeah ok - I'll play along. So you remove stealth from Bosmer to stop gankers. Do people honestly think the die-hard gankers won't just switch to a Khajiit? What about other races wearing those oft-touted stealth sets? Gankers gonna gank - removing stealth reduction from Bosmer is not going to stop that.

TL;DR - I'm still feeding that elephant that no one wants to talk about.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

After the Murkmire drama I did not resub and had my enjoyment of the game so thoroughly drained that I never even set foot into the zone up to this day. I didn't buy the DLC, but I did get it from the rewards anyway.
The season of the Dragon looked so promising that I actually found my enjoyment for the game again, but this has the potential to suck it all out once more.
I was never a fan of dungeon DLCs anyway and only bought them when there was a discount on crowns - Dragonbones being the only exception. If this change goes live, chances are that I'll not purchase Wrathstone on launch, possibly even never. Resubbing to play through it is also unlikely at this rate.

PLEASE ZOS, DO NOT GO REPLACE THE SNEAK RADIUS REDUCTION WITH SOMETHING NOBODY WANTS!

Only one class rep, Joy Division, mentioned it.

Even something as simple as this would go a long way to building good will and... nothing.

teladoy wrote: »

I think the stealth detection is OP but if you think lore is more important...

Yep, stealth detection is massively OP; it's why the way of air sets are selling for mountains of gold from the guild traders. But giving up this incredible, overwhelmingly useful, and powerful ability is a sacrifice we are willing to make for the sake of being consistent with lore. We are just that magnanimous.