Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

BlueRaven

Yeah Kahjits are in a nice place (I believe) the other AD mers, not so much.

Tasear

I hope the look adjusting elf races, especially bosmers

Nerouyn

BlueRaven wrote: »

Well the single player games DO have racials. In skyrim for example, when you make a character each race has bonuses to certain skill lines based on race. But it is done in a subtle way which is nice.

INCORRECT.

They have STARTING bonuses to certain skills. Once a skill is maxed in the single player games, every race is statistically identical.

The equivalent in ESO is Altmer learning destruction staff quicker. Those ones are fine.

It's the other racials which need to go. All of them.

BlueRaven

Nerouyn wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Well the single player games DO have racials. In skyrim for example, when you make a character each race has bonuses to certain skill lines based on race. But it is done in a subtle way which is nice.

INCORRECT.

They have STARTING bonuses to certain skills. Once a skill is maxed in the single player games, every race is statistically identical.

The equivalent in ESO is Altmer learning destruction staff quicker. Those ones are fine.

It's the other racials which need to go. All of them.

Well I would consider those racials, as the starting points of the different races are different, but I think we are just going to have an argument about semantics at this point.

Anyway, there is also this from skyrim;

Powers;

Altmer (High elf) - Highborn - Regenerate 25% of the character’s maximum magicka per second for 60 seconds.
Argonian - Histskin - Regenerate health 10 times faster for 60 seconds.
Bosmer (Wood Elf) - Command Animal - Make all surrounding animals your allies for 60 seconds.
Breton - Dragonskin - Absorb 50% of magicka from all incoming spells for 60 seconds.
Dunmer (Dark Elf) - Ancestor’s Wrath - Surrounds the character in fire for 60 seconds.
Imperial - Voice of the Emperor - Nearby people are Calmed for 30 seconds.
Khajiit - Night Eye - Improved Night Vision for 60 seconds (can be toggled multiple times per day).
Nord - Battle Cry - Nearby enemies are Frightened for 30 seconds.
Orsimer (Orc) - Berserker Rage - Take half damage and do double physical damage for 60 seconds.
Redguard - Adrenaline Rush - Regenerate stamina 10 times faster for 60 seconds.

And these...

Altmer: +50 Magicka
Argonian: 50% Disease Resistance, Waterbreathing
Bosmer: 50% Resistance to both Poison and Disease
Breton: 25% Resistance to Magic
Dunmer: 50% Resistance to Fire Damage
Imperial: Find more gold than usual
Khajiit: +15 Base Unarmed Damage
Nord: 50% Resistance to Frost Damage
Orsimer: None
Redguard: 50% Resistance to Poison

As you can see these are hardly balanced between the races (I had no idea until I looked it up that Orsimer had none of those racial effects, sheesh).

It's ironic that kahjits are the ones who have the improved sight in skyrim.

Jaraal

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

My only stealth character is a bosmer nightblade who I created to do the dark brotherhood and thieves guild quests.

After years of farting about she has finally maxed both of those skill lines, just in the nick of time it appears.

She does not pvp whatsoever so the new pathetically implemented bosmer racial is both pointless and useless to her.

If ZOS is going to force us into pvp-only passives then they are just being woefully ignorant.

I do not pvp, my characters do not pvp, stop hitting us with the pvp-hammer-of-stupidity.

They have a history of making PvP tweaks to the detriment of PvE focused players. Like killing speed to 'assist in targeting of players in PvP'. They could care less about explorers, material farmers, and questers (which make up the majority of their player base), and will blanket nerf everything to quiet the complaining of the vocal minority of PvP focused players.

So yeah, taking away stealth and replacing it with PvP only benefits is totally in line with their flawed logic.

Agobi

Good post

Think I'm gonna miss my sneaky little woodelf friend

starkerealm

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I made a Bosmer nightblade even before there was a justice system, anticipating that he would be useful for thieving at some point. And Thieves Guild turned out to be one of the better quest lines in the game.

Now, years later, I use the stealth mainly to speed through delves and the like, something I have done as recently as today, for the Morrowind event.

The character is based on one I made over 25 years ago, a D&D half elf. I'd really prefer not to change him to Khajit.

So, this is a bad time to point out, if you're emulating a half-elf, the racial pick in ESO is a Breton?

Incidentally, if you're wanting to make any character stealthy, my recomendation would be either Night Mother's Embrace (the Night Mother drop set, not the crafted one), and either Darkstride, Night Terror (for reduced detection radius), or Night's Silence (for full movement in stealth).

BlueRaven

starkerealm wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I made a Bosmer nightblade even before there was a justice system, anticipating that he would be useful for thieving at some point. And Thieves Guild turned out to be one of the better quest lines in the game.

Now, years later, I use the stealth mainly to speed through delves and the like, something I have done as recently as today, for the Morrowind event.

The character is based on one I made over 25 years ago, a D&D half elf. I'd really prefer not to change him to Khajit.

So, this is a bad time to point out, if you're emulating a half-elf, the racial pick in ESO is a Breton?

It does not quite work like that when you go from one game system to another. Value judgements may have to be made. Yes Bretons are part human and elf which lines up with half elf, but the way the character played may make the Bosmer racials fit better with the character (and bosmers are also elven so that helps). If this person’s D&D character was sneaky, a race that emphasizes stealth might be better pick.

As for myself my deep dive with my Bosmer can be traced back to WoW (a blood elf rogue). High elves would seem a natural fit in Skyrim where I recreated her, but I went Bosmer to emphasize the stealth. And all of this leads to eso.

FrancisCrawford

starkerealm wrote: »

Incidentally, if you're wanting to make any character stealthy, my recomendation would be either Night Mother's Embrace (the Night Mother drop set, not the crafted one), and either Darkstride, Night Terror (for reduced detection radius), or Night's Silence (for full movement in stealth).

Did you seriously think that somebody who makes as much of a fuss about stealthiness as I do didn't know that?

I've been playing the character for years wearing Night Terror and Night's Silence. I've been collecting Night Mother's Embrace since it was a heavy set, but it's just taking up bank space;I don't want to use both it and Night Terror, since I don't want to make my character a vampire, and hence do what him to have Night's Silence. Of course I have a lot of it stashed away now, since who hasn't farmed Deshaan dropped sets at some point? The original plan was to make a second stealthy character wearing it, but as much as I liked the Thieves Guild the first time, I haven't yet felt like repeating the quests. Besides, one of the big things I use sneaking for is generic mats farming (yes, I know there are other ways to do it), and having enough skill points for that, for thieving and for combat ... well, it's a lot of skill points.

TheMythicDawn

reps don't care about woodelf so they aren't pressuring zos to take community feedback on crappy roll dodge passive more seriously. zos promptly ignores the forums, so because reps are happy with woodelves they think everyone is.

max_only

Aliyavana wrote: »

People dont like the new racials because it isnt exactly much of an improvement. Penetration on dodge roll is laughable. i wont miss the stealth bonus if the replacement racials are good.

The replacement would have to be amazing. I mean, no longer bottom tier type of amazing.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Amazing post! Really well written!

Thanks, I explained the situation to someone who isn’t a gamer and they helped. Even just showing someone a lineup of the races and it’s obvious.

BlueRaven

I wonder if they are ever going to address this topic.

They have an eso live tonight, I hope it gets brought up.

max_only

Nerouyn wrote: »

I'd rather racials simply be scrapped so we could play whatever race we want how we want. Like in the single player games.

But if they're going to have racials, taking the stealth bonus away from Bosmer makes ZO liars.

They claim that one of the key goals for these changes is to give players more options when selecting a race. Supposedly they don't want every player who enjoys a particular play style to feel obliged to pick one race whose passives maximise that.

By taking the stealth bonus away from Bosmer and leaving it with Khajiit they're definitely going backwards.

Maybe the solution is to also take it away from Khajiit.

Well let’s not project onto the Khajiit, it’s their dlc after all, gotta sell those copies.

Shardaxx wrote: »

I agree. The stealth detection is utterly useless in pve, and too small to make any difference in pvp. AKA, its trash.

They are clearly trying to promote Khajeet because this is their DLC, but I'm annoyed this has come at the expense of my beloved wood elves.

I might try changing to Khajeet, and change back again if it annoys me too much. At least we're getting some free tokens. I wish they would stop messing around with stuff like this tho.

I agree. It’s really transparent that this is solely for Elsweyr sales. Until recently Khajiit was also top magicka dps on the PTS. They course corrected that, and maybe it’s because of how blatant it looked to have Khajiit good at every thing.

Left4Daud

At the end of the day, Bosmer should not be shoehorned into roly-poly stam builds. Look at what they did with Imperials, that was a good change. Instead of a cost reduction that shoehorned Imperials into a tanking roll via block/bash cost reduction, they were reworked to get a flat cost reduction for EVERYTHING. That is useful for EVERY Imperial, tanks, healers, the lot of them.

The Bosmer pen and speed after roll dodge is too niche and only really benefits PVP stamblades.

STOP PUSHING A PASSIVE THAT SHOEHORNS BOSMER INTO ONE TYPE OF ROLL. Sets like Senche and Air offer bonuses to this kind of play style and are hardly used for a reason. Offense after roll dodge is super clunky and counter intuitive. Not to mention entirely predictable once observed by an opponent in PVP (oh the Bosmer is rolling? Guess I block now), and entirely worthless in PVE (hey want to lose DPS? Spec a roll dodge meme build lol).

Hunters Eye should be reworked to be a viable and valuable passive for ALL Bosmer.

They’re obviously not incapable of making a change like this, just look at the Imperial improvement. So why are they being so stubborn with pushing such a hypocritical change?

This passive sticks out like a bloody sore thumb in this balance pass and the devs ignoring this is astounding.

Actually it’s more insulting than it is astounding.

BlueRaven

I think what’s most annoying about all of this is the wall of silence. No devs, no class reps, no one mentioning this.

If you are a dev and you want this change, at least own it. Say something along the lines that they heard the complaints but feel this is the way to go. And put it in a direct message, not bury it in a paragraph. Everything they have said so far feels like an afterthought or they are dodging the issue. Step up to the plate and address it directly.

And it really feels like the class reps are there to check dps for trials and PvP. There is no one there for normal QoL issues. I have no idea who the class reps are, why they were chosen as class reps, or what exactly is their function. At this point there does not seem to be much of a difference between them and regular devs. A cloistered group with little outreach to the community.

Ratzkifal

Why are people talking about class reps when the class reps neither have a say in these changes nor an actual authority on the matter? We don't have race reps. Sure, I think it sucks that none of them address Bosmer, but I think the reason that is is because nobody was playing Bosmer before. Certainly not class reps which are expected to play the most optimal builds, and Bosmer has never been "the most optimal" for anything.

If you take this issue seriously, then keep posting and give constructive criticism.

barney2525

Well, If they are going to give them stealth detection where there are no PVE characters that hide, we can help them out by adding Crit resistance in PVE.

8D

Jaraal

Maybe they'll be able to harvest Scuttleblooms without sneaking!

MartiniDaniels

barney2525 wrote: »

Well, If they are going to give them stealth detection where there are no PVE characters that hide, we can help them out by adding Crit resistance in PVE.

8D

Lol, seriously, my first cp160 crafted set was all impen hundings, because I liked reduced cost of repair and critical resistance number looked big, though i didn't know what it is at that time

mxxo

Bosmer should get some Magicka. This would be only fair. I dont see why Khajiit gets Magicka and Bosmer not. Both Races have a slight affinity to Magicka. I would happily trade the Rolling Clown Skill for that.

Ratzkifal

Something I just realized. After Wrathstone, Imperials will be a better sneaking race than Bosmer, because the 3% apply to sneak cost. What a world we are living in

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Something I just realized. After Wrathstone, Imperials will be a better sneaking race than Bosmer, because the 3% apply to sneak cost. What a world we are living in

Wait, is this right? I thought the imperial ability was for things like weapon abilities and spells. But are things like sprinting and stealth included as well?

Ratzkifal

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Something I just realized. After Wrathstone, Imperials will be a better sneaking race than Bosmer, because the 3% apply to sneak cost. What a world we are living in

Wait, is this right? I thought the imperial ability was for things like weapon abilities and spells. But are things like sprinting and stealth included as well?

@BlueRaven Yes, just as with Alteration Mastery and Battlefield Acrobat "all abilities" includes the cost of everything you have. Ults, sprinting, sneaking, breakfree, blocking, skills, dodgeroll. Everything with a cost gets reduced.

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Something I just realized. After Wrathstone, Imperials will be a better sneaking race than Bosmer, because the 3% apply to sneak cost. What a world we are living in

Wait, is this right? I thought the imperial ability was for things like weapon abilities and spells. But are things like sprinting and stealth included as well?

@BlueRaven Yes, just as with Alteration Mastery and Battlefield Acrobat "all abilities" includes the cost of everything you have. Ults, sprinting, sneaking, breakfree, blocking, skills, dodgeroll. Everything with a cost gets reduced.

What??? I mean, that can’t... What??!!

Edit: ok. Don’t answer. I am just going to go lie down for a bit.

Shadowasrial

I agree. Personally I would just leave Bosmer where it is currently on live servers. Crit from stealth and detection. Woodelves unlike the khajit are not magic oriented so if you want more of a hybrid stamina magic nb use the furry race. But for us archers and stam assassins keep things as they are.

Tasear

Jaraal wrote: »

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

My only stealth character is a bosmer nightblade who I created to do the dark brotherhood and thieves guild quests.

After years of farting about she has finally maxed both of those skill lines, just in the nick of time it appears.

She does not pvp whatsoever so the new pathetically implemented bosmer racial is both pointless and useless to her.

If ZOS is going to force us into pvp-only passives then they are just being woefully ignorant.

I do not pvp, my characters do not pvp, stop hitting us with the pvp-hammer-of-stupidity.

They have a history of making PvP tweaks to the detriment of PvE focused players. Like killing speed to 'assist in targeting of players in PvP'. They could care less about explorers, material farmers, and questers (which make up the majority of their player base), and will blanket nerf everything to quiet the complaining of the vocal minority of PvP focused players.

So yeah, taking away stealth and replacing it with PvP only benefits is totally in line with their flawed logic.

So be louder 🤔?

BlueRaven

Tasear wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

My only stealth character is a bosmer nightblade who I created to do the dark brotherhood and thieves guild quests.

After years of farting about she has finally maxed both of those skill lines, just in the nick of time it appears.

She does not pvp whatsoever so the new pathetically implemented bosmer racial is both pointless and useless to her.

If ZOS is going to force us into pvp-only passives then they are just being woefully ignorant.

I do not pvp, my characters do not pvp, stop hitting us with the pvp-hammer-of-stupidity.

They have a history of making PvP tweaks to the detriment of PvE focused players. Like killing speed to 'assist in targeting of players in PvP'. They could care less about explorers, material farmers, and questers (which make up the majority of their player base), and will blanket nerf everything to quiet the complaining of the vocal minority of PvP focused players.

So yeah, taking away stealth and replacing it with PvP only benefits is totally in line with their flawed logic.

So be louder 🤔?

The only way I can think of that we can be louder is to start dropping f-bombs in the thread titles. What are we doing wrong? How can we be louder?

mxxo

Shadowasrial wrote: »

I agree. Personally I would just leave Bosmer where it is currently on live servers. Crit from stealth and detection. Woodelves unlike the khajit are not magic oriented so if you want more of a hybrid stamina magic nb use the furry race. But for us archers and stam assassins keep things as they are.

Thats not true. Only a minority of the Khajiit has an affinity to magic. And all Bosmer had always an affinity to alteration, illusion, healing and alchemy.

Ratzkifal

I think it's enough if we keep the thread going. If ZOS closes it because it has "derailed" then we just have to make another. Everything has be said pretty much but it can't be stressed enough how important this issue is!

BlueRaven

They are going to pax east this year. It’s a bit far but I may make a special trip this year.