Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

max_only

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/ah288b/as_a_bosmer_i_want_my_sneak_back/

A reddit thread, since I know Zos likes reddit more than their own forums for some things.

Ri_Khan

max_only wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/ah288b/as_a_bosmer_i_want_my_sneak_back/

A reddit thread, since I know Zos likes reddit more than their own forums for some things.

Like passive marketing?

Exousia

It's a shame. My main is a Bosmer who uses Spriggan and Archer's Mind. (Penetration + high Crit Damage)

I can do 34k Crits at a time and 45k Crit from Sneak.

With the new update, not only would I lose the 3meter Steath bonus, but the 10% damage from Stealth!

That being said, if ZoS HAS to take Stealth away, then make it so that Bosmers gets bonus damage for using Bows!

Say, 5% extra damage from Bows! Or heck, give us a passive 3 meter range increase for using bows. (Due away with Eagle Eye set) *The passive isn't called "Hunter's...." for nothing.

Least that would make sense in the lore.

None of the Bosmer racial passive change makes sense.

Ratzkifal

I was thinking about making a thread about what name The Elder Scrolls Online should have instead now that it's cutting its ties to its established lore. "The Online" comes to mind. "Three Banners War". "How to ignore your community 101"

Ratzkifal

Just asked my brother who doesn't play ESO, but who play Skyrim to summarize Woodelfs in a few words for me. I never talked to him about what ZOS has planned to release on monday so he is unbiased.
This is what he told me in order:
stealth, archers, cannibals and hippies.

Even someone who isn't very deep into the elder scrolls lore knows that Woodelfs are supposed to be stealthy!

anadandy

Just in case anyone still thinks Stealth Detection isn't useless in PVE - my Bosmer ran into a NPC NB today. In addition to being clearly visible when she first engaged him, even after he cloaks (and "disappears") this is what it looks like.



Wow - it's a good thing she's getting Stealth Detection or she never would have know where he was /s

Cundu_Ertur

I don't think the stealth detect would even work in that case anyways, I think that's the shadow cloak and not hiding.

anadandy

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

I don't think the stealth detect would even work in that case anyways, I think that's the shadow cloak and not hiding.

I believe you are correct. I was mostly being facetious and bitter

Left4Daud

Just chiming in to say that detection does counter invisibility / cloaking.

Still useless in PVE.

Edit: the detection that Bosmer get only effects visible enemies in stealth (as opposed to invisible enemies in stealth). My apologies.

Ratzkifal

Left4Daud wrote: »

Just chiming in to say that detection does counter invisibility / cloaking.

Still useless in PVE.

@Left4Daud It doesn't. The passive that Bosmer have is not the same as a detection potion or mage's light. It just increases the radius you spot sneaking enemies in. It does not work on cloak or invisibility.

Left4Daud

That’s weird, isn’t detection...detection? Why would an ability like Evil Hunter detect invisible enemies but Hunter’s Eye not?

Truthsnark

max_only wrote: »

Just change it to

Increases your stealth reduction radius by 3 meters
Increases your movement speed by 10% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 1500 for 6 seconds after you use Roll Dodge.

From

Increases your stealth detection radius by 3 meters
Increases your movement speed by 10% and your Physical and Spell Penetration by 1500 for 6 seconds after you use Roll Dodge.

One word will make all the difference. Please.

Yes, one word would make the difference! I have no hope it will actually happen though.

Ratzkifal

Left4Daud wrote: »

That’s weird, isn’t detection...detection? Why would an ability like Evil Hunter detect invisible enemies but Hunter’s Eye not?

@Left4Daud Yeah it's weird. Generally all detection forces hidden enemies to be revealed, but there are invisible hidden enemies and visible hidden enemies. Detection potions, mage light and evil hunter detect invisible enemies, walking close to someone who is sneaking only detects visible hidden enemies but not the invisible ones. Bosmer get 3m more of this sneak detection.

For better understanding, I would propose we refer to what potions, mage light and evil hunter grant as "truesight" and the other as detection, plain detection or sneak detection.

Edit: There is a red eye icon displayed over enemies that have truesight.

Left4Daud

@Ratzkifal

Thanks for breaking it down like that. I agree the tooltips could describe the layers of stealth and detection more clearly, the truesight idea makes much more sense.

Do you know if boosts to plain detection stack with truesight? So would a Bosmer with hunters eye / Way of Air get a little more truesight radius off a detect pot or would those boosts only effect their plain detection?

Ratzkifal

Left4Daud wrote: »

@Ratzkifal

Thanks for breaking it down like that. I agree the tooltips could describe the layers of stealth and detection more clearly, the truesight idea makes much more sense.

Do you know if boosts to plain detection stack with truesight? So would a Bosmer with hunters eye / Way of Air get a little more truesight radius off a detect pot or would those boosts only effect their plain detection?

@Left4Daud I don't think boosts to plain detection improve truesight effects. A detection potion adds 20m of plain detection and grants truesight in an area around you, which I would assume is a radius of 6m, the same as Inner Light and Expert Hunter. I haven't tested any of this, but I would assume these to have the same effect, with Radiant Mage Light being superior at a 12m truesight radius. Also 20m of truesight for 16 seconds sounds quite insane if you think about it and I don't remember being able to see cloaked NBs with detection pots from a shock clench's range distance away.

All in all we can say, Sentry, Way of the Air and the new Bosmer passive are quite weak and in case of the Bosmer even lorebreaking (given that it is meant to replace the sneak radius passive).

Uryel

teladoy wrote: »

I think the stealth detection is OP but if you think lore is more important...

Two things : it may have some situational use in PvP, but it has zero use in PvE ; and lore IS very important, yes. It defined the race for 3 decades and 5 games before this one, and defined Bosmers in this one for 5 years. Lore is the reason some people, including yours truly, created stealthy Bosmers to begin with.

And, even leaving lore aside, how can you justify to tell people who have been tuning their characters for years "hey, look, the very reason your character was created is now gone, deal with it or go Khajiit" ?

I mean, if suddenly your paladin in WoW was being told he will lose all his healing skills, would you like that ? Or your Ranger in Guild Wars 2 is now prohibited from using a bow ? Or, closer to us, if Altmers lost all bonus to magicka and magic damage and instead got, say, a bonus to damage when using sword and shield, because that's a setup that requires discipline to use efficently and Altmers are disciplined AF ? Not only would that be a pain in the arse for people who play Altmers, but the very reason would seem very, very shallow, wouldn't it ?

Let's just hope ZOS folks keep not reading what we say, because I might just have given them a fairly terrible idea.

teladoy

max_only wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

I think the stealth detection is OP but if you think lore is more important...

Have you tested it? It’s not stealth suppression like Magelight. It’s not against invisible enemies like nb’s Cloak. It’s only 3 meters which is melee range (jabs is 8x6 meters by comparison, Incap is 5 meters)

Is not?? I think it is...

Ratzkifal

teladoy wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

I think the stealth detection is OP but if you think lore is more important...

Have you tested it? It’s not stealth suppression like Magelight. It’s not against invisible enemies like nb’s Cloak. It’s only 3 meters which is melee range (jabs is 8x6 meters by comparison, Incap is 5 meters)

Is not?? I think it is...

@teladoy Nope, definitely not. Do you see any Nightblades rage in the forums over how OP the new Bosmer are? You can be sure if those 3m were invisibility detection (what I like to call "truesight" to avoid confusion), then the forum would be on fire and flooded with NB threads. Those 3m only work against sneaking and nothing else.

BlueRaven

teladoy wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

I think the stealth detection is OP but if you think lore is more important...

Have you tested it? It’s not stealth suppression like Magelight. It’s not against invisible enemies like nb’s Cloak. It’s only 3 meters which is melee range (jabs is 8x6 meters by comparison, Incap is 5 meters)

Is not?? I think it is...

I think you are mistaken.

This was my impression on the PTS, if I am understanding the mechanics correctly (and I might not be).

Magelight will bring a character out of stealth. As in literally everyone will see the character, and the character will not be able to go back to stealth.

The bosmer ability will let the player SEE a person in stealth, but the stealthed person will NOT be broken out of stealth. To everyone else they will still be in stealth. Characters that are invisible, will not be detected either.

(Edit: Just to repeat, my friends and I tried it out on the PTS and this was our impressions. But we could be wrong, we were really there to test the dungeons.)

MLGProPlayer

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I was thinking about making a thread about what name The Elder Scrolls Online should have instead now that it's cutting its ties to its established lore. "The Online" comes to mind. "Three Banners War". "How to ignore your community 101"

Next crown crate season is going to feature FO76 weapon and mount skins. Followed by a Wolfenstein theme.

We're also going to learn the Deadlands are actually located on Mars.

Ratzkifal

Tomorrow is the big day. Woohoo! I am so (not) excited!

Anyone wants to brainstorm ideas for protests ingame? Maybe a Bosmer party in Abah's Landing with thieves heists? Maybe a horde of Bosmer killing all killable NPCs in Alinor?

BlueRaven

I think the main action will be here on the forums. And action again in 2 weeks when the consoles get the patch.

It is very weird how many people do not know about this change. I posted the change on discord the other day and it really started up a conversation.

Also in the way stealth detect, and stealth reduction radius is worded I think a lot of bosmer players will still think they have the same passive as before. I am going to bet they will fill out bug reports or something on the change thinking they are suppose to have stealth.

Left4Daud

They can’t be that disconnected from the lore of their own series right guys? Right?

Ratzkifal

Left4Daud wrote: »

They can’t be that disconnected from the lore of their own series right guys? Right?

I'm afraid they can. Who cares if Bosmer have chameleon like skin. ZOS can't be bothered to animate that, so it just gets cut from the lore! After all, you can't make buildings from poetry.

BlueRaven

It's very weird. There s a lot of lore derivations I am seeing in this round of race changes.

Beyond the bosmer stealth loss theres;

1) That whole odd Altmer regen passive.

2) Argonians being immune to disease and Bosmer poisons, when I think that should be reversed.

3) Bosmers getting "Hunter's Eye" which implies a better eyesight, which again is a racial passive that Kahjits get normally. (Again, not that I want Kahjit players to get stuck with this awful passive.)

4) With the new passives, Imperials are getting a passive that directly improves their stealth capabilities while bosmers won't. So Imperials will now be better at stealth?

(Ok It seems most of the problems I found are about Bosmer race passives, but I am sure theres more.)

It's just really odd.

Left4Daud

I’m expecting the worst and I still think they’ll find a way to disappoint.

Like “We heard your feedback about Hunters Eye. This passive now gives 100 spell and physical penetration permanently instead of a larger amount after a roll dodge. Also we heard the concerns about the 10% speed boost still being too powerful in PVP so we’re just gonna remove that. Oh and no one wants or likes the increased radius to stealth detection so we’re just going to remove that too. But we’re not giving back the reduced detection radius because lol. Basically we reworked this passive so now you will always have that massive 100 point boost to penetration, and a 1%/2%/3% chance when killing animals to loot one additional meat or leather. Have fun killing squirrels in Valenwood suckers!”

Red_Feather

They should get a corpse consuming passive. Gaining resources from being such cannibal freaks!

BlueRaven

Red_Feather wrote: »

They should get a corpse consuming passive. Gaining resources from being such cannibal freaks!

At least that would be closer to the lore.

Ratzkifal

BlueRaven wrote: »

2) Argonians being immune to disease and Bosmer poisons, when I think that should be reversed.

@BlueRaven I don't think it should be reversed at all and it's an issue that personally doesn't bother me as both races have been immune to both but also been immune to only one as well. Argonians have been immune to disease and not to poison in Skyrim but to both in Oblivion and Morrowind (as it should be). Bosmer have had disease immunity in Morrowind and Oblivion but had both in Skyrim (as it should be), which makes sense considering the environment they live in.

Edit: Balance wise I also think giving them both both poison and disease resist would not hurt balance too much as fire and magic are already more common types of damage than disease is, making it almost a non-factor even if you consider major defile. From memory, even NB has only two disease damage skills.

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

2) Argonians being immune to disease and Bosmer poisons, when I think that should be reversed.

@BlueRaven I don't think it should be reversed at all and it's an issue that personally doesn't bother me as both races have been immune to both but also been immune to only one as well. Argonians have been immune to disease and not to poison in Skyrim but to both in Oblivion and Morrowind (as it should be). Bosmer have had disease immunity in Morrowind and Oblivion but had both in Skyrim (as it should be), which makes sense considering the environment they live in.

Alright fair enough, I will change it.