The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
4.1.2 Rune cage change is a joke.
KingLogix
✭✭✭
I wont write much. To keep it short.... the damage from the rune cage is not the issue. the 0 counter play followed by a huge timed delayed burst is the issue.
This is no where near comparable to fossilize > dk burst.
This is no where near comparable to fossilize > dk burst.
48
-
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll still stand by my suggestion of having it place a 3m AoE underneath the target's feet that 'collapses' after 1s. Stunning one target through Block and Roll-dodge and Dealing Damage.Edited by Avran_Sylt on July 23, 2018 5:59PM4 -
Abhaya✭✭✭✭The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.Abhaya - PC NA - Ebonheart Pact
Stam Sorc 2-Hand / Bow Build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=16910316 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What is the purpose of this thread if you don't bring anything interesting ?
There is already a thousand nerf rune cage thread going at the same times:
They reduced the damage by 20% but with 4.1.2 they removed the damage ( It only deals damage if the stun lasts for its full duration... ). because there is a thousand thread going on the same issue and nobody agree on what make rune cage OP.
According to this thread the problem with rune cage is the damage. Some people even talk about the range.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424454/rune-cage-discussion/p1
According to this one, the problem is the animation, some talk about the damage.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424333/fix-rune-cage-this-is-so-bad-do-you-guys-even-test-this/p1
Here they talk about the lengh of the stun, the range and the unblockable/undodgable part
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424256/sorcs-are-no-longer-op/p1
Oh and there is even some talking about it being " cheap ".
Don't tell me the Whole skill is broken OP, it isn't, The stun duration and the damage are the problem.Edited by Apherius on July 23, 2018 5:48PM7 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Abhaya
That's not counter-play. That's a reaction.
Counter-Play would be seeing them perform the skill, and doing something to prevent it. (net loss for both sides)
Edit: (The difference is when the reaction occurs. Pre action compared to Post)Edited by Avran_Sylt on July 24, 2018 7:12AM19 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The revert change to runes damage means that it won't be slotted on most solo sorcs bars, since an only CC ability is quite a sacrifice, however its still a problem (and was when it was introduced) from groups pinning you with a buggy to break, 40m uncounterable CC.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
Dr.NRG✭✭✭✭Zos clearly stated that this skill is still being worked on during the pts but they need more testing done first. For example they are considering making the skill dogable and more visible inorder to enable counter play. So chillax for!;).1 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I believe the choice is interesting now:
Rune cage ~ 41 meters, cost 2984 magicka: Deal 0 damage + stun undodgeable/unblockable ( the 5 sec are not very useful, except if you don't break free ... in this case it's a L2P issue)
Clench ~ 41 meters, cost 3232 magicka : Deal X damage + X Damage overtime + Proc burn effect + can be used as a spammable instead force pulse + stun blockable/dodgeable/reflectable.
I really wanted this change.3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I believe the choice is interesting now:
Rune cage ~ 41 meters, cost 2984 magicka: Deal 0 damage + stun undodgeable/unblockable ( the 5 sec are not very useful, except if you don't break free ... in this case it's a L2P issue)
Clench ~ 41 meters, cost 3232 magicka : Deal X damage + X Damage overtime + Proc burn effect + can be used as a spammable instead force pulse + stun blockable/dodgeable/reflectable.
I really wanted this change.
So if the point was to have a choice between better (broken) cc + no dmg Vs dmg + worse cc then what the hell was the point of nerfing frags.3 -
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭The damage is never and HAS NEVER been the issue. The 5 second duration, the stupid range and the buggy as all hell CC break is!!!
What's another 3k of damage when they've queued 30k of damage on you when they apply it and your health is 23k???
Why does a sorc need to be able to CC someone who is WELL OUTSIDE of gap closer range, except to gain advantage for their burst?
Why do ZOS insist on having Sorcs as Giants putting their hands on the heads of every other class as dwarves and kicking the ever loving s*** out of them? It's literally like the head of combat design and balance mains a mag sorc.....
I mean, wtf do we have to do to get ZOS to actually address the issue?
FIX CC BREAK!!! and REDUCE THE RANGE!!! The damage nerf is literally gods damned worthless. When you have curse, endless/wrath queued up with a meteor and a frag on the way when the rune cage is applied the damage isn't worth anything and gives literally ZERO counterplay.
Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!15 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OP is absolutely right, reducing the damage at this point is moot because they're also increasing sorc burst in this patch with new itemization (Balorgh) by far more than what the Rune Cage damage was.
So in essence the unavoidable burst is even more than it was before, even if Cage itself deals no damage.
I.e. it'll still result in all but tank builds getting evaporated with no feasible counterplay or chance to react.The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.
Except you can't break free because you've already taken two light attacks, a frag & a curse (and possibly a Meteor as well) to the face before it is even physically possible to CC break, resulting in 20k+ damage instakill.Edited by DDuke on July 23, 2018 6:03PM15 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I believe the choice is interesting now:
Rune cage ~ 41 meters, cost 2984 magicka: Deal 0 damage + stun undodgeable/unblockable ( the 5 sec are not very useful, except if you don't break free ... in this case it's a L2P issue)
Clench ~ 41 meters, cost 3232 magicka : Deal X damage + X Damage overtime + Proc burn effect + can be used as a spammable instead force pulse + stun blockable/dodgeable/reflectable.
I really wanted this change.
So if the point was to have a choice between better (broken) cc + no dmg Vs dmg + worse cc then what the hell was the point of nerfing frags.
you mean, a choice between better (undodgeable/unbreakable) cc + no dmg Vs dmg + Worse CC + a Free bar slot.
Absolutely no reason nerfing frags, i believe they wanted to:
- make both crystal morph interesting
- though it would fix the sorc issue by forcing them to use another skill for stun ( if they chose crystal frag with no cc morph).
They were wrong, Crystal blast is still a potatoe and unused morph ( except for Overload gank ... ) and people keep complain about sorc skills.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep in mind on eso live they mentioned rune cage being dodgeable(and telegraphed), but that was just 2 days ago, probably did not make it into this PTS patch yet.1 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.
No other class can apply a timed explosion (Haunting Cuse), with an execute on auto pilot (Mages Fury), and drop an Ultimate (Meteor), at the same moment they hit u with a hard CC from 28 meters away. So even if your running away you still can be hit by that full combo from distance.
Magsorc shouldnt have Rune Cage as an offensive CC at all.
15 -
helios777✭✭✭✭I wont write much. To keep it short.... the damage from the rune cage is not the issue. the 0 counter play followed by a huge timed delayed burst is the issue.
This is no where near comparable to fossilize > dk burst.
As a DK I think rune cage is fine. Rune Cage was originally changed when sorc's lost CC of frags almost a year ago, several top tier sorcs were using it then and no one complained. Sorcs are ranged, they have a ranged unblockable cc, fits with the class. Sorry not sorryGrand Warlord HAXERUS. One of the last OG Mag DKs.
Mag DK through Thick and Thin.
Retired from Cyrodiil until they finally decide to fix the performance, which is probably never.3 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorcerer:
Rune Cage (morph): This ability now only deals damage if the stun lasts for its full duration.
Had me worried with that dodgeable nonsense
Edited by ChunkyCat on July 23, 2018 6:29PM1 -
Baz✭✭✭The thing is, rune cage is the last counter to rolly polly stamblade.
If it become dodgeable, stamblade would be god mode more than never.
Imo, the changes should be still does damage, but reduce the CC to 3sec instead of 5
I main magplar btw, rune cage is annoying for sure, but I don't want to see nightblade rolly polly godmode.
Rolly polly took an indirect buff by the Sload changes being a projectile, and they were already at the top of the food chainvAA : 150.350 WS StamBladeMostly retired from PvE ESO
vSO : 171.041 CwC StamSorc
vHRC : 155.895 DB Tank
vMoL : 159.672 CwC Stamplar
vHoF : 206.667 MkM StamNB
vAS : 111.272 MkM Magplar
vCR : 128.397 WS MagSorc
6 -
helios777✭✭✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »@Abhaya
That's not counter-play. That's a reaction.
Counter-Play would be seeing them perform the skill, and doing something to prevent it. (net loss for both sides)
NB and DK both have unblockable CC, fear and fossilize. It's an l2p issue if you can't learn to counter playGrand Warlord HAXERUS. One of the last OG Mag DKs.
Mag DK through Thick and Thin.
Retired from Cyrodiil until they finally decide to fix the performance, which is probably never.3 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »@Abhaya
That's not counter-play. That's a reaction.
Counter-Play would be seeing them perform the skill, and doing something to prevent it. (net loss for both sides)
NB and DK both have unblockable CC, fear and fossilize. It's an l2p issue if you can't learn to counter play
Playing devils advocate, both of those are melee ranged8 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I believe the choice is interesting now:
Rune cage ~ 41 meters, cost 2984 magicka: Deal 0 damage + stun undodgeable/unblockable ( the 5 sec are not very useful, except if you don't break free ... in this case it's a L2P issue)
Clench ~ 41 meters, cost 3232 magicka : Deal X damage + X Damage overtime + Proc burn effect + can be used as a spammable instead force pulse + stun blockable/dodgeable/reflectable.
I really wanted this change.
So if the point was to have a choice between better (broken) cc + no dmg Vs dmg + worse cc then what the hell was the point of nerfing frags.
you mean, a choice between better (undodgeable/unbreakable) cc + no dmg Vs dmg + Worse CC + a Free bar slot.
Absolutely no reason nerfing frags, i believe they wanted to:
- make both crystal morph interesting
- though it would fix the sorc issue by forcing them to use another skill for stun ( if they chose crystal frag with no cc morph).
They were wrong, Crystal blast is still a potatoe and unused morph ( except for Overload gank ... ) and people keep complain about sorc skills.
Undodgeable/unbreakable cc on a magicka sorc is stupid broken and i have played sorc for years even tho im playing the class less and less every update with these stupid changes they are doing to the class. What sorcs need is a normal ranged cc that works smoothly in their rotation without sacrificing the already limited GCDs and bar space they have. Aka, frag cc. Not the stupid rune cage that makes both sorcs complain cause (on the contrary of what clueless non sorcs actually believe) its not as easy to pull off that combo when ur burst windows are very small and everyone else on the receiving end of that combo cause its a stupid death sentence with no counterplay for over half of the population of cyrodiil.
We've already had this version of rune cage literally before summerset. We dont want it. Just restore frags cause no one ***** complained about that cc and base rune cage around defensive rune with different morph options whether this is dmg, dot, hot, debuff, buff or like any of a million different options they can actually try. Which is actually a damn good skill working smoothly for sorcs and synergizing perfectly with their toolkit adding a much needed secondary layer of defense besides shields potentially solving the issues of shieldstacking and playstyle diversity as well. There you go, thats a good direction everyone can get behind and willing to try different changes.
Not those stupid boring brainless random changes to cage. A skill that doesnt even belong in the sorc toolkit and no one ever asked for. They are just making random changes to the skill without having any clue about the way it operates for the sorc and against other people and they just hope that at some point they'll hit the jackpot and stop people from complaining.
Sorry if it sounded like a personal attack, it wasnt meant that way. I just got tired of this stupid skill.Edited by pieratsos on July 23, 2018 6:52PM3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It find it just ridiculous how in previous patches (where they changed warden's Dive skill and made it dodgeable and I think they also changed Nb's Soul Harvest ult to dodgeable) - they clearly said that all single target skills will be dodgeable... but somehow we have a special exception from this rule for sorcs... I don't get it...
Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on July 23, 2018 6:54PM6 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP is absolutely right, reducing the damage at this point is moot because they're also increasing sorc burst in this patch with new itemization (Balorgh) by far more than what the Rune Cage damage was.
So in essence the unavoidable burst is even more than it was before, even if Cage itself deals no damage.
I.e. it'll still result in all but tank builds getting evaporated with no feasible counterplay or chance to react.The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.
Except you can't break free because you've already taken two light attacks, a frag & a curse (and possibly a Meteor as well) to the face before it is even physically possible to CC break, resulting in 20k+ damage instakill.
Balorgh increase the all meteor combo by 340 spell damage, but spending a monster set for ultimate combo that happen every 56s can maybe not be that strong.
We need number comparation to really be sure.0 -
KingLogix✭✭✭Zos clearly stated that this skill is still being worked on during the pts but they need more testing done first. For example they are considering making the skill dogable and more visible inorder to enable counter play. So chillax for!;)
If i got a dollar for everytime I head ZOS was going to fix something, i would have bought them out and made the changes my self -.- jk jk.. but still, I wont rest on this topic until something actually gets changed.0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OP is absolutely right, reducing the damage at this point is moot because they're also increasing sorc burst in this patch with new itemization (Balorgh) by far more than what the Rune Cage damage was.
So in essence the unavoidable burst is even more than it was before, even if Cage itself deals no damage.
I.e. it'll still result in all but tank builds getting evaporated with no feasible counterplay or chance to react.The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.
Except you can't break free because you've already taken two light attacks, a frag & a curse (and possibly a Meteor as well) to the face before it is even physically possible to CC break, resulting in 20k+ damage instakill.
Balorgh increase the all meteor combo by 340 spell damage, but spending a monster set for ultimate combo that happen every 56s can maybe not be that strong.
We need number comparation to really be sure.
yeah and Bomblade will get 500 more sp with destro ultimate, but nobody talk about that :P0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP is absolutely right, reducing the damage at this point is moot because they're also increasing sorc burst in this patch with new itemization (Balorgh) by far more than what the Rune Cage damage was.
So in essence the unavoidable burst is even more than it was before, even if Cage itself deals no damage.
I.e. it'll still result in all but tank builds getting evaporated with no feasible counterplay or chance to react.The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.
Except you can't break free because you've already taken two light attacks, a frag & a curse (and possibly a Meteor as well) to the face before it is even physically possible to CC break, resulting in 20k+ damage instakill.
Balorgh increase the all meteor combo by 340 spell damage, but spending a monster set for ultimate combo that happen every 56s can maybe not be that strong.
We need number comparation to really be sure.
yeah and Bomblade will get 500 more sp with destro ultimate, but nobody talk about that :P
Actually it'll be 1k more spell dmg but it'll require to charge 650-750 ultimate between each bomb. Also it's not like bobmblades are extremly strong currently. Sets like Wizard Riposte , Earthgore etc lowered effectiveness of that build quite strongly.
Edited by Juhasow on July 23, 2018 7:13PM1 -
KingLogix✭✭✭OP is absolutely right, reducing the damage at this point is moot because they're also increasing sorc burst in this patch with new itemization (Balorgh) by far more than what the Rune Cage damage was.
So in essence the unavoidable burst is even more than it was before, even if Cage itself deals no damage.
I.e. it'll still result in all but tank builds getting evaporated with no feasible counterplay or chance to react.The counter play is to break free like you do with every other hard CC.
Except you can't break free because you've already taken two light attacks, a frag & a curse (and possibly a Meteor as well) to the face before it is even physically possible to CC break, resulting in 20k+ damage instakill.
Balorgh increase the all meteor combo by 340 spell damage, but spending a monster set for ultimate combo that happen every 56s can maybe not be that strong.
We need number comparation to really be sure.
yeah and Bomblade will get 500 more sp with destro ultimate, but nobody talk about that :P
Actually it'll be 1k more spell dmg but it'll require to charge 650 ultimate between each bomb. Also it's not like bobmblades are extremly strong currently. Sets like Wizard Riposte , Earthgore etc lowered effectiveness of that build quite strongly.
agreed. bomblades arent as effective as they used to be.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Removing damage from rune cage is a step in the right direction. Currently this ability leaves no counterplay since it basicly makes no difference many times will You break free or not. If You wont break free sorc will just burst You and You'll die , if You will break free You'll add additional 2-3k dmg to sorc burst which in most cases will be around 10 % of someones health resulting in bringing it closer to or even under 20% health which further results with mages fury proc. Many times people were just killing themselves because they were breaking free. It may be not perfect change but still better then previous 20% dmg reduction.1 -
Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭@KingLogix
Didn't even read the comments on this. Just want to give you insight. Two patches ago MagSorc was a medium to low tier PvP class. They became a high tier PvP class because Rune Cage gave them the needed extra damage and reliability to land burst which pushed some builds into execute range to finish them off. They are removing the change that pushed MagSorcs into a high tier PvP class and literally reverting them back to what they were 2 patches ago. Just to give you a little insight no one complained about MagSorcs damage 2 patches ago, and the only complaints were player who couldn't 1v1 a MagSorc because they turtled up and shield stacked.
MagSorcs added Rune Cage to their arsenal because it was better than Flame reach. This is no longer the case and MagSorcs will go back to that sub par easy to counter CC that will be instant break and decrease their chances of completing their burst.
Do I care? No. I was a MagSorc at release, I was a MagSorc when they have been at their best, their worst, and so on.
But let's not pretend that after this change that MagSorcs will still be over the top. If they weren't before they buffed Rune Cage then they won't be when they revert it with an increased 20% damage reduction (not that a damage reduction will matter considering the damage is even more unlikely to go off now trollololol).
Just let us be a medium to low tier PvP class who can't physically burst anyone with over 28k health, and melts as soon as 2 players touch their only defense mechanism (damage shields) and let us be.
P.S. the good MagSorcs will adapt, and bad ones will jump ship like every patch. Considering I'll be gaining a bar spot after I drop rune cage I have a plan to take the place of damage I'll be missing from it. Only thing this really does is make meteor useless to me once again... Sigh. It was fun having a decent ultimate while it lasted.
See you in cyrodiil Xbox NA
6 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I believe the choice is interesting now:
Rune cage ~ 41 meters, cost 2984 magicka: Deal 0 damage + stun undodgeable/unblockable ( the 5 sec are not very useful, except if you don't break free ... in this case it's a L2P issue)
Clench ~ 41 meters, cost 3232 magicka : Deal X damage + X Damage overtime + Proc burn effect + can be used as a spammable instead force pulse + stun blockable/dodgeable/reflectable.
I really wanted this change.
So if the point was to have a choice between better (broken) cc + no dmg Vs dmg + worse cc then what the hell was the point of nerfing frags.
There was no point in nerfing frag cc.
It was the worst out of the three you mentioned before. The only thing nerfing frags achieved was to reduce build diversity.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I believe the choice is interesting now:
Rune cage ~ 41 meters, cost 2984 magicka: Deal 0 damage + stun undodgeable/unblockable ( the 5 sec are not very useful, except if you don't break free ... in this case it's a L2P issue)
Clench ~ 41 meters, cost 3232 magicka : Deal X damage + X Damage overtime + Proc burn effect + can be used as a spammable instead force pulse + stun blockable/dodgeable/reflectable.
I really wanted this change.
So if the point was to have a choice between better (broken) cc + no dmg Vs dmg + worse cc then what the hell was the point of nerfing frags.
There was no point in nerfing frag cc.
It was the worst out of the three you mentioned before. The only thing nerfing frags achieved was to reduce build diversity.
Exactly, but apparently ZOS just refuses to revert that change which will solve the issue of sorc cc and they instead just keep bashing their heads against the wall making buffs and nerfs to rune cage every patch in the hope of balancing a skill which is hopelessly unbalanced.2