And to that, i say - sload is meh. About halfway beween the really strong and the really weak DOTS i commonly get hit by. Poison injection, burning embers, bleeds, yada yada - sload is nothing special compared to the majority, damage-wise.
The only reason why sload is so controversial is the fact it bypasses shields. Otherwise, noone would even bat an eyelash.
No, i mean for a character without shields. My stam DK could not care less whether the 800/tick he is getting hit by comes from sload or from burning embers, poison injection, whatever.
Also I cant believe I need to say this but unmitigated damage should not stack.
A shielded character with multiple sloads on it isn't any worse off than an unshielded character with multiple normal dots on it, so i don't see why the former should not stack when with the latter stacking is fine.
You dont see the difference between normal dmg and oblivion dmg?
For a character without shields, there is no practical difference between being affected by a normal DOT and an oblivion DOT.
SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »If my stamina DK can be affected by multiple vipers ticking for ~800 each, i don't see why a sorc should not be affected by multiple sloads ticking for ~800 each.
Having a shield does not make one special.
The difference is that Sload's is irresistible. There's nothing whatsoever you can do about it but die if too much gets stacked onto you. Resistible damage is categorically different from a design perspective. One can choose to invest in resistance strategies to mitigate it. It takes MUCH more of that kind of damage for death to become inevitable. Making those mitigation investments (shields or armor or defensive buffs or CP or whatever) comes at a cost, making it balanced and acceptable that such damage can stack. You can either acknowledge the objective difference or you can play denial games. The facts won't change: these two things are different and nobody benefits from pretending that they are the same when they obviously aren't.
So distilled down, your argument is that sload's damage can not be lessened by investing into resistance.
To this, i reply: Sload hits for roughly the same as viper *after* resistances have been taken into account for viper.
In other words, the "resistance" to sload is already built-in into the base damage of the ability.
The important thing is not whether you can reduce sload's damage or not, the important thing is how does its damage compare to other DOTs that your character will commonly be hit by in PvP. If it does not do significantly more damage, then it does not really matter whether it is "irresistible" or not - it is not any more threatening than your average "resistible" dot.
And to that, i say - sload is meh. About halfway beween the really strong and the really weak DOTS i commonly get hit by. Poison injection, burning embers, bleeds, yada yada - sload is nothing special compared to the majority, damage-wise. The only reason why sload is so controversial is the fact it bypasses shields. Otherwise, noone would even bat an eyelash.
Also I cant believe I need to say this but unmitigated damage should not stack.
A shielded character with multiple sloads on it isn't any worse off than an unshielded character with multiple normal dots on it, so i don't see why the former should not stack when with the latter stacking is fine.
You dont see the difference between normal dmg and oblivion dmg?
For a character without shields, there is no practical difference between being affected by a normal DOT and an oblivion DOT.
Not true, oblivion dmg isnt effected but champion points of blocking either, less they scale down the dmg on it but in most cases it ends up being higher. For example the dmg proc for proc of caluurion is outclasses by sloads over the same time frame. It also isnt effected by battle spirit, so the dmg isnt halfed
Also I cant believe I need to say this but unmitigated damage should not stack.
A shielded character with multiple sloads on it isn't any worse off than an unshielded character with multiple normal dots on it, so i don't see why the former should not stack when with the latter stacking is fine.
You dont see the difference between normal dmg and oblivion dmg?
For a character without shields, there is no practical difference between being affected by a normal DOT and an oblivion DOT.
Not true, oblivion dmg isnt effected but champion points of blocking either, less they scale down the dmg on it but in most cases it ends up being higher. For example the dmg proc for proc of caluurion is outclasses by sloads over the same time frame. It also isnt effected by battle spirit, so the dmg isnt halfed
<sigh>
Do you know why battle spirit exists? It is because trial bosses require such insane damage output to defeat that if you let this into PvP, players would be instagibbing each other. So you need to reduce their damage in PvP to a more manageable level. That's what battle spirit does.
Oblivion damage on the other hand is primarily a PvP thing. Since it is not used to defeat trial bosses, its damage does not need to be huge, and then reduced for PvP - it can be set to the desired PvP value to begin with. That's why it is not affected by battle spirit: there is no need.
SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I agree. In the very post you replied to I clearly stated "the problem with Sload's is not the damage.
...
Wrong. As I just told you, I don't even run shields in PvP and I see the problem. The reason it's a problem is that it bypasses EVERYTHING -- all kinds of damage mitigation.
Still tho, if you take into consideration battle spirit, resistance, and champion points viper hits for less than sloads in the same time frame. If you go with each set only procing once its worse with viper coming it at 54% of the damage sloads can do.
SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I agree. In the very post you replied to I clearly stated "the problem with Sload's is not the damage.
...
Wrong. As I just told you, I don't even run shields in PvP and I see the problem. The reason it's a problem is that it bypasses EVERYTHING -- all kinds of damage mitigation.
You say the problem with sload is not damage. Then you say the problem is that you can not reduce said damage. If the damage is not a problem, then you do not need to reduce it, thus the fact it can not be reduced is meaningless.
SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I agree. In the very post you replied to I clearly stated "the problem with Sload's is not the damage.
...
Wrong. As I just told you, I don't even run shields in PvP and I see the problem. The reason it's a problem is that it bypasses EVERYTHING -- all kinds of damage mitigation.
You say the problem with sload is not damage. Then you say the problem is that you can not reduce said damage. If the damage is not a problem, then you do not need to reduce it, thus the fact it can not be reduced is meaningless.
no they damage is fine in a single instance of sloads, the problem that have is when multiple sloads are applied to the same person because the damage of starts adding up more than sets, like viper, that can be resisted. Sloads doing more dmg that say viper in a single instance is fine and 2k difference between them isnt noticeable but then you get more the extra starts adding up. Even tho the one viper is close to one sload, 2 sloads starts to equal the same amount at 3.5 vipers and it keeps building
Still tho, if you take into consideration battle spirit, resistance, and champion points viper hits for less than sloads in the same time frame. If you go with each set only procing once its worse with viper coming it at 54% of the damage sloads can do.
Sure - if we conveniently ignore the fact that you need only one hit to proc viper reliably, but multiple hits to proc sload(which means the fight can last several seconds without a sload proc). Also, if we ignore the fact that sload is a hybrid set, and thus has bonuses that do nothing for damage dealing (it gives magicka to stamina toons etc.), which means your character's other abilities will do less dmage on average if you wear sload instead of viper.
PvP is not a lab environment where you can cherry pick one element and "omg look it is more powerful".
SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »I agree. In the very post you replied to I clearly stated "the problem with Sload's is not the damage.
...
Wrong. As I just told you, I don't even run shields in PvP and I see the problem. The reason it's a problem is that it bypasses EVERYTHING -- all kinds of damage mitigation.
You say the problem with sload is not damage. Then you say the problem is that you can not reduce said damage. If the damage is not a problem, then you do not need to reduce it, thus the fact it can not be reduced is meaningless.
no they damage is fine in a single instance of sloads, the problem that have is when multiple sloads are applied to the same person because the damage of starts adding up more than sets, like viper, that can be resisted. Sloads doing more dmg that say viper in a single instance is fine and 2k difference between them isnt noticeable but then you get more the extra starts adding up. Even tho the one viper is close to one sload, 2 sloads starts to equal the same amount at 3.5 vipers and it keeps building
There are DOTs in PvP that do more damage than sload.
And another thing: Since sload does always the same damage, a PvP dev does not have to wonder whether he overlooked some wild combo that would make the set overpowered (like, say, elf bane does with zaan) - he knows exactly how much the DOT will tick for, everytime.
Thus, you could say oblivion damage is a kind of measuring stick for developer intentions. It tells you "this is how much damage the devs want DOTs to tick for in PvP".
I'd say you would have a better case if you plead with the devs to increase viper damage, than to decrease sload's.
and like i said your trading 2 bonuses that dont benefit you for 1
the first and third bonus on viper give you neither weapon dmg or stam either
Story Time
I am a PvE player. I haven't PvP'd for 1 - 2 years. With the event coming up, I decided to make a PvP build. So I just went for what everyone is crying about: Sloads + Caluurion + Zaan. Alternatively, Durok's instead of Calu.
Then, to practice, I went to the dueling area and, over the next 6 hours or so, got my ass handed to me. None of the professional PvPers wear Sloads. It's bad. Lich and Axiom or Shacklebreaker are a lot better. With that, I was actually able to hold my ground and win duels. Also, if any of the professional PvPers would've worn Sloads, I would've rekt them hard.
Seriously, this set is such garbage. It doesn't provide you with any means to hold your ground in PvP and ditch out sufficient burst at the same time. Whoever is crying about it probably won't dodge my Assassin's Will bow either. Why not cry about that?
Story Time
I am a PvE player. I haven't PvP'd for 1 - 2 years. With the event coming up, I decided to make a PvP build. So I just went for what everyone is crying about: Sloads + Caluurion + Zaan. Alternatively, Durok's instead of Calu.
Then, to practice, I went to the dueling area and, over the next 6 hours or so, got my ass handed to me. None of the professional PvPers wear Sloads. It's bad. Lich and Axiom or Shacklebreaker are a lot better. With that, I was actually able to hold my ground and win duels. Also, if any of the professional PvPers would've worn Sloads, I would've rekt them hard.
Seriously, this set is such garbage. It doesn't provide you with any means to hold your ground in PvP and ditch out sufficient burst at the same time. Whoever is crying about it probably won't dodge my Assassin's Will bow either. Why not cry about that?
What happens is you get in zerg vs Zerg , especially if the event ever happens; and you have a bunch of people spamming it from range.
You say the problem with sload is not damage. Then you say the problem is that you can not reduce said damage. If the damage is not a problem, then you do not need to reduce it, thus the fact it can not be reduced is meaningless.
SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »You say the problem with sload is not damage. Then you say the problem is that you can not reduce said damage. If the damage is not a problem, then you do not need to reduce it, thus the fact it can not be reduced is meaningless.
So you didn't learn how multiplication works in elementary school?
Not a problem * multiple people = a problem
Also I cant believe I need to say this but unmitigated damage should not stack.
A shielded character with multiple sloads on it isn't any worse off than an unshielded character with multiple normal dots on it, so i don't see why the former should not stack when with the latter stacking is fine.
You dont see the difference between normal dmg and oblivion dmg?
For a character without shields, there is no practical difference between being affected by a normal DOT and an oblivion DOT.
Also I cant believe I need to say this but unmitigated damage should not stack.
A shielded character with multiple sloads on it isn't any worse off than an unshielded character with multiple normal dots on it, so i don't see why the former should not stack when with the latter stacking is fine.
You dont see the difference between normal dmg and oblivion dmg?
For a character without shields, there is no practical difference between being affected by a normal DOT and an oblivion DOT.
There is no practical difference between a dot that ignores all resistances, mitigations, block etc and normal dot? Are you serious now?
The_Protagonist wrote: »Quite interesting to see that a certain part of the ESO community decide by themselves who is good and who is a scrub. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I find that this thing about sloads is dragging a little too long now. If someone wears sloads they are a scrub, if someone wore viper back in 1T, they were a scrub.
It makes me wonder, that these 'good' players are no different to new players who were not used to dying and complaining.
If we go by the standards of these 'good' players, then we should never have any deaths in PvP, and all we will see is players heavy attacking each other for all eternity.
To be honest it is sickening to see these repeated sloads threads. Please stop.
Also I cant believe I need to say this but unmitigated damage should not stack.
A shielded character with multiple sloads on it isn't any worse off than an unshielded character with multiple normal dots on it, so i don't see why the former should not stack when with the latter stacking is fine.
You dont see the difference between normal dmg and oblivion dmg?
For a character without shields, there is no practical difference between being affected by a normal DOT and an oblivion DOT.
There is no practical difference between a dot that ignores all resistances, mitigations, block etc and normal dot? Are you serious now?
Shadowmaster wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »how many of these threads you going to make?
as many as it takes for his sorc to be unkillable 1v1 again
Also I cant believe I need to say this but unmitigated damage should not stack.
A shielded character with multiple sloads on it isn't any worse off than an unshielded character with multiple normal dots on it, so i don't see why the former should not stack when with the latter stacking is fine.
You dont see the difference between normal dmg and oblivion dmg?
For a character without shields, there is no practical difference between being affected by a normal DOT and an oblivion DOT.
There is no practical difference between a dot that ignores all resistances, mitigations, block etc and normal dot? Are you serious now?
From a practical standpoint, how i deal with sload is no different from how i deal with any other DOT.
So yes, there is no practical difference for my stam DK whether he is affected by sload DOT, or just any other type of DOT.
As for the "but it ignores all resistances!!!" mantra: remember it also ignores most damage buffs. In the end, it does not matter what it ignores or not, the only important thing is how much damage it does. And in that department, sload is nothing special.
Story Time
I am a PvE player. I haven't PvP'd for 1 - 2 years. With the event coming up, I decided to make a PvP build. So I just went for what everyone is crying about: Sloads + Caluurion + Zaan. Alternatively, Durok's instead of Calu.
Then, to practice, I went to the dueling area and, over the next 6 hours or so, got my ass handed to me. None of the professional PvPers wear Sloads. It's bad. Lich and Axiom or Shacklebreaker are a lot better. With that, I was actually able to hold my ground and win duels. Also, if any of the professional PvPers would've worn Sloads, I would've rekt them hard.
Seriously, this set is such garbage. It doesn't provide you with any means to hold your ground in PvP and ditch out sufficient burst at the same time. Whoever is crying about it probably won't dodge my Assassin's Will bow either. Why not cry about that?
Kinda like shields, eh? Except reversed, of course - those are useless in only one situation, OP in all others.
If that kind of design is no issue for you, then please give us similar sets for other classes. That is: sets that completely wreck that class within 10 secs by only spamming light attacks.
You are aware that any competent sorc will kill your light attack spamming behind twice over in the same time period, yes?
"Completely wreck" indeed...
You just don't have any idea what you are talking about.
You aren't using the most stupid opponent there is someone who should never ever be a threat to an exceptional player yet this set gives everyone, even a 65k health tank the opportunity to apply 3.5k oblivion dps on an enemy that is actively defending himself with the tools his class is build around.
"He should never be a threat". And why, exactly, should he not be a threat?
Gotta love these "rules" players invent for themselves and then get mad when others don't follow them.