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Sloads..................
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Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭And what uptime do you assume for other stuff? I have tested Sloads a bit in both duels and open world PvP and checked combat metrix reports after fights and Sloads was on top as the most damaging "ability" almost always, at average accounting for 20-30% of my total dmg. Other Dots - which have higher dps on paper when assuming 100% uptime - always ended up lower than Sloads in practise. So those 100% uptime calculations might actually let Sloads appear to be weaker than it is.
Now pls name a single other set which buffs my dmg by 20-30%.
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Fun fact: Valkyn Skoria did more than twice the DPS of sload in that test. Nerf Skoria?
Fun fact: Skoria's "DPS" would get halfed via battlespirit while Sload's doesn't.
In b4 "but it still does more damage": it can be blocked, reduced by % mitigation buffs (yes, also buffed) and has worse proc conditions. Yet people argue if Skoria on itself is OP.
No comment on the "they calculated sload as having 100% uptime" fallacy?
But yea. Fair point. With battle spirit, a 2-piece set bonus would actually do slightly less DPS than a 5-piece set bonus.
Other sets don't have 100% uptime as well. Skoria often get's accused to proc "back to back", while it has 8% on DoTs only, so 10% on everything should have far higher uptime. Which uptimes do you assume for vipers, surge etc?0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've had combat parses where sload did the most damage to me, i've also had parses where it barely tickled me.
A 10% proc chance will do that.
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Those comparisons assume 100% uptime on everything, to make calculations easier. Ofc actual uptimes can vary a lot, but usually a high uptime on Sloads is much easier to achieve than high uptimes on other stuff, because it procs on everything.
You make the calculation easier, but also grossly inaccurate. "It procs on everything therefore the uptime will be near 100!" is what i read everywhere. Look at that parse above. Four dots, plus spammables on top of that, and the set still only has a 59% uptime.
And that's with a target that just stands there and lets you bombard it with everything you got! (we know how often that happens in PvP, yes?) People act like all you need is to hit and enemy once in PvP and 100% sload uptime is guaranteed. Bollocks.
Comparing 59% uptime on a 3m dummy to a 1v1 or even a 1vX makes 0 Sense tbh
It makes 0 sense because opponents in PvP won't let you beat on them like a target dummy does, so the actual uptime in PvP will be even lower than the 59% on the screenshot...
Fun fact: Valkyn Skoria did more than twice the DPS of sload in that test. Nerf Skoria?
Skoria is affected by battle spirit, dmg, block and cp mitigation. What are you even talking about.
even in that dumb biased scenario in an attempt to make sload look weak by ignoring literally all its utility and a pathetic uptime it still beats Skoria which is one of the strongest monster sets in the game.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Fun fact: Valkyn Skoria did more than twice the DPS of sload in that test. Nerf Skoria?
Fun fact: Skoria's "DPS" would get halfed via battlespirit while Sload's doesn't.
In b4 "but it still does more damage": it can be blocked, reduced by % mitigation buffs (yes, also buffed) and has worse proc conditions. Yet people argue if Skoria on itself is OP.
No comment on the "they calculated sload as having 100% uptime" fallacy?
But yea. Fair point. With battle spirit, a 2-piece set bonus would actually do slightly less DPS than a 5-piece set bonus.
Other sets don't have 100% uptime as well. Skoria often get's accused to proc "back to back", while it has 8% on DoTs only, so 10% on everything should have far higher uptime. Which uptimes do you assume for vipers, surge etc?
I don't assume anything (unlike a certain test referenced earlier).1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Those comparisons assume 100% uptime on everything, to make calculations easier. Ofc actual uptimes can vary a lot, but usually a high uptime on Sloads is much easier to achieve than high uptimes on other stuff, because it procs on everything.
You make the calculation easier, but also grossly inaccurate. "It procs on everything therefore the uptime will be near 100!" is what i read everywhere. Look at that parse above. Four dots, plus spammables on top of that, and the set still only has a 59% uptime.
And that's with a target that just stands there and lets you bombard it with everything you got! (we know how often that happens in PvP, yes?) People act like all you need is to hit and enemy once in PvP and 100% sload uptime is guaranteed. Bollocks.
Comparing 59% uptime on a 3m dummy to a 1v1 or even a 1vX makes 0 Sense tbh
It makes 0 sense because opponents in PvP won't let you beat on them like a target dummy does, so the actual uptime in PvP will be even lower than the 59% on the screenshot...
Fun fact: Valkyn Skoria did more than twice the DPS of sload in that test. Nerf Skoria?
Skoria is affected by battle spirit, dmg, block and cp mitigation. What are you even talking about.
even in that dumb biased scenario in an attempt to make sload look weak by ignoring literally all its utility and a pathetic uptime it still beats Skoria which is one of the strongest monster sets in the game.
Skoria is a 2-piece set. Sload is a 5-piece set. The latter beat the former. News at eleven.2 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I also wonder why you defending this set like a mother her Kids.
Let me make a guess: You golded it out?1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Those comparisons assume 100% uptime on everything, to make calculations easier. Ofc actual uptimes can vary a lot, but usually a high uptime on Sloads is much easier to achieve than high uptimes on other stuff, because it procs on everything.
You make the calculation easier, but also grossly inaccurate. "It procs on everything therefore the uptime will be near 100!" is what i read everywhere. Look at that parse above. Four dots, plus spammables on top of that, and the set still only has a 59% uptime.
And that's with a target that just stands there and lets you bombard it with everything you got! (we know how often that happens in PvP, yes?) People act like all you need is to hit and enemy once in PvP and 100% sload uptime is guaranteed. Bollocks.
Comparing 59% uptime on a 3m dummy to a 1v1 or even a 1vX makes 0 Sense tbh
It makes 0 sense because opponents in PvP won't let you beat on them like a target dummy does, so the actual uptime in PvP will be even lower than the 59% on the screenshot...
Fun fact: Valkyn Skoria did more than twice the DPS of sload in that test. Nerf Skoria?
Skoria is affected by battle spirit, dmg, block and cp mitigation. What are you even talking about.
even in that dumb biased scenario in an attempt to make sload look weak by ignoring literally all its utility and a pathetic uptime it still beats Skoria which is one of the strongest monster sets in the game.
Skoria is a 2-piece set. Sload is a 5-piece set. The latter beat the former. News at eleven.
Monster sets aren't generally weaker than 5p sets. In fact, it tends to be the other way arround.Edited by Rianai on July 16, 2018 12:26PM3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I also wonder why you defending this set like a mother her Kids.
Let me make a guess: You golded it out?
I am not using sload at all. Shacklebreaker/salvation on DK, shackle/senche on nb, and automaton/shieldbreaker on my templar.
What i am opposing is general forum stupidity unreasonableness (is that a word?). As usual.4 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I also wonder why you defending this set like a mother her Kids.
Let me make a guess: You golded it out?
I am not using sload at all. Shacklebreaker/salvation on DK, shackle/senche on nb, and automaton/shieldbreaker on my templar.
What i am opposing is general forum stupidity unreasonableness (is that a word?). As usual.
So a true forum warrior. Thats gonna be a pointless discussion. A Lot of ppl already proofed that sloads is overperforming even with numbers and you still defending it.
I am out, have fun.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I also wonder why you defending this set like a mother her Kids.
Let me make a guess: You golded it out?
I am not using sload at all. Shacklebreaker/salvation on DK, shackle/senche on nb, and automaton/shieldbreaker on my templar.
What i am opposing is general forum stupidity unreasonableness (is that a word?). As usual.
So a true forum warrior. Thats gonna be a pointless discussion. A Lot of ppl already proofed that sloads is overperforming even with numbers and you still defending it.
I am out, have fun.
The only "proofing with numbers that sload is overperforming" i saw was the thread which assumed sload has a 100% uptime.
So much for proofing.
Have fun, too.
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Those comparisons assume 100% uptime on everything, to make calculations easier. Ofc actual uptimes can vary a lot, but usually a high uptime on Sloads is much easier to achieve than high uptimes on other stuff, because it procs on everything.
You make the calculation easier, but also grossly inaccurate. "It procs on everything therefore the uptime will be near 100!" is what i read everywhere. Look at that parse above. Four dots, plus spammables on top of that, and the set still only has a 59% uptime.
And that's with a target that just stands there and lets you bombard it with everything you got! (we know how often that happens in PvP, yes?) People act like all you need is to hit and enemy once in PvP and 100% sload uptime is guaranteed. Bollocks.
Comparing 59% uptime on a 3m dummy to a 1v1 or even a 1vX makes 0 Sense tbh
It makes 0 sense because opponents in PvP won't let you beat on them like a target dummy does, so the actual uptime in PvP will be even lower than the 59% on the screenshot...
Fun fact: Valkyn Skoria did more than twice the DPS of sload in that test. Nerf Skoria?
Skoria is affected by battle spirit, dmg, block and cp mitigation. What are you even talking about.
even in that dumb biased scenario in an attempt to make sload look weak by ignoring literally all its utility and a pathetic uptime it still beats Skoria which is one of the strongest monster sets in the game.
Skoria is a 2-piece set. Sload is a 5-piece set. The latter beat the former. News at eleven.
Monster sets are weaker? Wait wut?0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭To anyone saying Sload is a "weak DoT", I highly recommend reading this thread down below:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/421134/math-sloads-vs-masters-dual-wield-a-perspective-on-balance/p1
TL:DR for those who doesn´t bother reading:In a CP environment, between two similarly-built, max-CP players (ie. a fair fight) Sload's is dealing 102% to 140% more DPS than Master's Dual-Wield!In no-CP, where bleeds become relatively stronger, this margin drops to 93-129%. And in the third scenario (a wild outlier where the target was exceptionally low on defenses, thus heavily favouring Master's DW), Sload's still outperforms by 47-74%
I´ve never been advocating against or in favor for Sload´s, but math doesn´t lie.
Sload damage has been reduced by 15% since then.
Dps is still same. Its damage per second and its still 6 times 853 oblivion damage with 6 seconds cooldown. So basicly 100 % uptime.
Not quite. I'd say it's up 75% of the time. But it works so well in combination with otheDotr proc sets, that it'll feel like it's proccing on you constantly.
That's the real issue in my opinion. It just works too well with other cancerous sets, and AOE dots. My warden's max health scaling gripping shards is now on par with rune cage thanks to the skoria/sload procs that erupt when I activate it in the middle of a crowd of players, then throw caltrops on them, before immobilizing them as second time with gripping shards.
1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Those comparisons assume 100% uptime on everything, to make calculations easier. Ofc actual uptimes can vary a lot, but usually a high uptime on Sloads is much easier to achieve than high uptimes on other stuff, because it procs on everything.
You make the calculation easier, but also grossly inaccurate. "It procs on everything therefore the uptime will be near 100!" is what i read everywhere. Look at that parse above. Four dots, plus spammables on top of that, and the set still only has a 59% uptime.
And that's with a target that just stands there and lets you bombard it with everything you got! (we know how often that happens in PvP, yes?) People act like all you need is to hit and enemy once in PvP and 100% sload uptime is guaranteed. Bollocks.
Comparing 59% uptime on a 3m dummy to a 1v1 or even a 1vX makes 0 Sense tbh
It makes 0 sense because opponents in PvP won't let you beat on them like a target dummy does, so the actual uptime in PvP will be even lower than the 59% on the screenshot...
Fun fact: Valkyn Skoria did more than twice the DPS of sload in that test. Nerf Skoria?
Skoria is affected by battle spirit, dmg, block and cp mitigation. What are you even talking about.
even in that dumb biased scenario in an attempt to make sload look weak by ignoring literally all its utility and a pathetic uptime it still beats Skoria which is one of the strongest monster sets in the game.
SKoria gets the highest parses of all monster sets on my stam warden werewolf while running sloads. It's the only monster set that beats out kena in WW form from my testing, at least of the ones I have. Sure it gets its damage reduced by several factors, but it procs off dots which means that its more prone to bursts of successive procs and the total damage is high, especially against shielded players (because only CP and battle spirit effect the damage) and medium armor wearers (because it protects so little anyway).0 -
Extinct_Solo_Player✭✭✭✭✭@Sharee maybe learn how to play instead of crutching on a scrub set bypassing all type of mitigation and maybe then you will understand that defending a set that helps you kills a class you otherwise would die to isn't good for the game.2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I use sloads on two characters, my stam dk and my stam nightblade.
I can say both setups are strong, but at same time is it overpowered?
I find the stam dk ends up being comparable to my magicka Templar, and it doesn’t mean it’ll kill everything either. I’ve watched some nightblades and stam sorcs straight up heal through the damage.
Both setups rely heavily on keeping a healing debuff on the target. I honestly don’t think the setup will work on the stamina dk after the patch as reverb bash becomes *** tier and will no long be used in pvp by anyone with a brain. It should still work on the nightblade though.
Thing is while I like both setups neither compare right now to how powerful a sorc (both stam and mag) and stamina warden are. Those setups straight up brutalize people.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos5 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Those comparisons assume 100% uptime on everything, to make calculations easier. Ofc actual uptimes can vary a lot, but usually a high uptime on Sloads is much easier to achieve than high uptimes on other stuff, because it procs on everything.
You make the calculation easier, but also grossly inaccurate. "It procs on everything therefore the uptime will be near 100!" is what i read everywhere. Look at that parse above. Four dots, plus spammables on top of that, and the set still only has a 59% uptime.
And that's with a target that just stands there and lets you bombard it with everything you got! (we know how often that happens in PvP, yes?) People act like all you need is to hit and enemy once in PvP and 100% sload uptime is guaranteed. Bollocks.
Comparing 59% uptime on a 3m dummy to a 1v1 or even a 1vX makes 0 Sense tbh
It makes 0 sense because opponents in PvP won't let you beat on them like a target dummy does, so the actual uptime in PvP will be even lower than the 59% on the screenshot...
Fun fact: Valkyn Skoria did more than twice the DPS of sload in that test. Nerf Skoria?
Skoria is affected by battle spirit, dmg, block and cp mitigation. What are you even talking about.
even in that dumb biased scenario in an attempt to make sload look weak by ignoring literally all its utility and a pathetic uptime it still beats Skoria which is one of the strongest monster sets in the game.
SKoria gets the highest parses of all monster sets on my stam warden werewolf while running sloads. It's the only monster set that beats out kena in WW form from my testing, at least of the ones I have. Sure it gets its damage reduced by several factors, but it procs off dots which means that its more prone to bursts of successive procs and the total damage is high, especially against shielded players (because only CP and battle spirit effect the damage) and medium armor wearers (because it protects so little anyway).
Oh, so skoria procs with dots. That must be good. If only sloads could do that. Oh wait, it has a higher proc chance and it procs on everything including the dots that proc skoria.
You think skoria is good against shields because it puts pressure on them? Sloads entirely ignores them. It doesnt give a s*** about ur shields, ur resistances, ur cp, ur block, ur dodge. It just doesnt care. It ignores everything. Skoria is affected by shields, dmg, block and cp mitigation. And its still doing less dmg.
So what are you even talking about.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anyone that can survive long enough against 4+ players to have sload tick all 7 times....
Well they're doing pretty well as is and I can't help but feel would have shaken off all 4+ players without it.
If said build wasn't seemingly immortal, I'd be more hard pressed to get sloads further nerfed0 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Anyone that can survive long enough against 4+ players to have sload tick all 7 times....
Well they're doing pretty well as is and I can't help but feel would have shaken off all 4+ players without it.
If said build wasn't seemingly immortal, I'd be more hard pressed to get sloads further nerfed
I think that's kind of what this is all about. Some people feel entitled to be 100% safe in "normal" combat conditions, and they don't appreciate that they can be suddenly killed by noobs in cheese gear (understandable to an extent). Others who die to Sloads hear these "elites" complaining about Sloads and think that they have carte blanche complaining about Sloads. Since they are so dismissive of anyone who isn't calling for the set to be nerfed into the ground.
Let's start a list of OP mechanics, skills, and sets in the game. Chances are most people are using a lot of, if not most of them. But Sload's is the only problem apparently. Didn't see a lot of these same people complaining about people using multiple mundus stones. In fact, I remember at least some of the QQers using multiple mundus themselves. Go figure
Am I really supposed to feel bad when I pack up a NB with Sloads and recieve hate whispers? Then nothing but silence when I respond with "How about all those times you stealthed and switched to shieldbreaker to fight me?" Maybe if my magicka templar gets buffed he will put away his purple Sloads gear
PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP1 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭In my experience Sload's is only broken in Non-CP environments. I know that Sload's Ignores all forms of mitigation, but you have to factor in the extra healing power, max stam/mag gained from CP as well.
My suggested fix to sloads would be one of the 2 following.
1- As mentioned by others, Sload's would no longer stack, and any attempt to stack would simply refresh the duration.
2- Sload's could still stack, but would no longer refresh the duration on stack, and all stacks would be lost when the effect ended.
I do believe either of these would fix the issue with Sload's in Non-CP environments.
I wish I had the chance to screenshot it before my last battleground ended, but I didn't. I had a total of 15k just in Sload's on my death recap. lol
(Until this is fixed, simply join the meta. Sload's+Torug's+Infused+Oblivion DMG Enchant)
Feed the fire until Zenimax realizes the fire needs to be dowsed! *Grabs pitchfork*0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »In my experience Sload's is only broken in Non-CP environments. I know that Sload's Ignores all forms of mitigation, but you have to factor in the extra healing power, max stam/mag gained from CP as well.
My suggested fix to sloads would be one of the 2 following.
1- As mentioned by others, Sload's would no longer stack, and any attempt to stack would simply refresh the duration.
2- Sload's could still stack, but would no longer refresh the duration on stack, and all stacks would be lost when the effect ended.
I do believe either of these would fix the issue with Sload's in Non-CP environments.
I wish I had the chance to screenshot it before my last battleground ended, but I didn't. I had a total of 15k just in Sload's on my death recap. lol
(Until this is fixed, simply join the meta. Sload's+Torug's+Infused+Oblivion DMG Enchant)
Feed the fire until Zenimax realizes the fire needs to be dowsed! *Grabs pitchfork*
It is still a problem in CP environment. Any damages that stack and has no cooldown while ignoring every single defense is a problem.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »kypranb14_ESO wrote: »In my experience Sload's is only broken in Non-CP environments. I know that Sload's Ignores all forms of mitigation, but you have to factor in the extra healing power, max stam/mag gained from CP as well.
My suggested fix to sloads would be one of the 2 following.
1- As mentioned by others, Sload's would no longer stack, and any attempt to stack would simply refresh the duration.
2- Sload's could still stack, but would no longer refresh the duration on stack, and all stacks would be lost when the effect ended.
I do believe either of these would fix the issue with Sload's in Non-CP environments.
I wish I had the chance to screenshot it before my last battleground ended, but I didn't. I had a total of 15k just in Sload's on my death recap. lol
(Until this is fixed, simply join the meta. Sload's+Torug's+Infused+Oblivion DMG Enchant)
Feed the fire until Zenimax realizes the fire needs to be dowsed! *Grabs pitchfork*
It is still a problem in CP environment. Any damages that stack and has no cooldown while ignoring every single defense is a problem.
I don't play to much CP PVP, so my experience is limited and I will trust you on this one.
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i don't think its overpowered in CP, its probably overpowered in Non CP simply because most proc sets are.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Anyone that can survive long enough against 4+ players to have sload tick all 7 times....
Well they're doing pretty well as is and I can't help but feel would have shaken off all 4+ players without it.
If said build wasn't seemingly immortal, I'd be more hard pressed to get sloads further nerfed
I think that's kind of what this is all about. Some people feel entitled to be 100% safe in "normal" combat conditions, and they don't appreciate that they can be suddenly killed by noobs in cheese gear (understandable to an extent). Others who die to Sloads hear these "elites" complaining about Sloads and think that they have carte blanche complaining about Sloads. Since they are so dismissive of anyone who isn't calling for the set to be nerfed into the ground.
Let's start a list of OP mechanics, skills, and sets in the game. Chances are most people are using a lot of, if not most of them. But Sload's is the only problem apparently. Didn't see a lot of these same people complaining about people using multiple mundus stones. In fact, I remember at least some of the QQers using multiple mundus themselves. Go figure
Am I really supposed to feel bad when I pack up a NB with Sloads and recieve hate whispers? Then nothing but silence when I respond with "How about all those times you stealthed and switched to shieldbreaker to fight me?" Maybe if my magicka templar gets buffed he will put away his purple Sloads gear
Most of those bad players didn't deserve to kill the skilled player easily but sloads, a skilless set made it easier for the unskilled to take down a skilled player1 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭i don't think its overpowered in CP, its probably overpowered in Non CP simply because most proc sets are.
By 1 proc, it isn't much of a threat unless paired with Bleeds and/or Defile. But it still stacks in CP and CP cannot stop it from doing full famage. And stacking is a problem when 2+ effects ticks for constant 853 each.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭To anyone saying Sload is a "weak DoT", I highly recommend reading this thread down below:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/421134/math-sloads-vs-masters-dual-wield-a-perspective-on-balance/p1
TL:DR for those who doesn´t bother reading:In a CP environment, between two similarly-built, max-CP players (ie. a fair fight) Sload's is dealing 102% to 140% more DPS than Master's Dual-Wield!In no-CP, where bleeds become relatively stronger, this margin drops to 93-129%. And in the third scenario (a wild outlier where the target was exceptionally low on defenses, thus heavily favouring Master's DW), Sload's still outperforms by 47-74%
I´ve never been advocating against or in favor for Sload´s, but math doesn´t lie.
Sload damage has been reduced by 15% since then.
no it hasnt just compensated for removing the last tic
also that only equals 130 less dmgEdited by ezio45 on July 17, 2018 5:23AM0
