Sloads..................

LadyNalcarya

Just remove the stacking please. The proc itself isnt that problematic imo when there's only one, but 2-3+...
A cooldown would be nice, too.

Emma_Overload

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...for my DK...what i care about...

Well that certainly settles every question about how the entire game should be balanced, doesn't it?

Really, this is a stunning level of self-centeredness and personal bias. ESO is not a solo game populated with nothing but NPC's as far as the eye can see. There are other people in the universe. Balance matters.

Sharee wrote: »

Because there is no practical difference between sload and another DOT

Yes, there is. It has been clearly explained to you, but you simply refuse to accept the facts.

Sharee wrote: »

if my DK can get hit by four bleeds, there is no reason why your sorc shouldn't get hit by four sloads.

Yes, there is. Sorcs invest in a mitigation strategy that imposes an opportunity cost onto them. They pay for their defenses with constant GCD costs and resource drain. As a result, they should have some defensive advantages over your DK. Sload's can be a good 1v1 counterplay to bypass those defenses. But it should NOT stack. Suffering from 1 Sload stack is fine, but multiple stacks should not be imposed on a character that is paying for their defenses in ways that you do not. You, who do not pay the opportunity costs of defense, SHOULD be able to suffer multiple bleeds/DOTs/whatever. The whole point of investing in defensive strategies (shields, armor, buffs, etc) is that they should reduce incoming damage. Irresistible damage stacking contradicts the whole purpose of defensive strategies, leaving the players who made such investments at a distinct disadvantage against those who did not and suffer none of the opportunity costs. Preventing stacking levels the playing field. Their defensive investment would not stop all damage, since 1 stack gets through, but it would protect them from something that you rightfully should suffer since you're not paying the opportunity costs that they pay. Seeing Sload's and Viper/bleeds/etc as equivalent is a privilege that you enjoy as a non-defensive player. To others who have paid dearly to reduce incoming damage, Sload stacking destroys an entire playstyle.

(The same logic holds true for those investing in high armor resistances, slotting defensive buffs, and other mitigations strategies "your DK" does not use. Sorc shields just seem to be the one you're obsessed over.)

And for the record, I've never taken a mag sorc into PvP aside from a quick skill leveling.

Thank you for this logical explanation. I was just going to start hurling expletives.

Xsorus

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

i don't think its overpowered in CP, its probably overpowered in Non CP simply because most proc sets are.

By 1 proc, it isn't much of a threat unless paired with Bleeds and/or Defile. But it still stacks in CP and CP cannot stop it from doing full famage. And stacking is a problem when 2+ effects ticks for constant 853 each.

All dots stack; if you can’t handle two sloads you couldn’t handle two of pretty much every single dot in the game. The only people who seem to be upset about it stacking are magicka sorcs who have not actually had to deal with any stacking dots in this game like virtually every other class has.

Xsorus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...for my DK...what i care about...

Well that certainly settles every question about how the entire game should be balanced, doesn't it?

Really, this is a stunning level of self-centeredness and personal bias. ESO is not a solo game populated with nothing but NPC's as far as the eye can see. There are other people in the universe. Balance matters.

Sharee wrote: »

Because there is no practical difference between sload and another DOT

Yes, there is. It has been clearly explained to you, but you simply refuse to accept the facts.

Sharee wrote: »

if my DK can get hit by four bleeds, there is no reason why your sorc shouldn't get hit by four sloads.

Yes, there is. Sorcs invest in a mitigation strategy that imposes an opportunity cost onto them. They pay for their defenses with constant GCD costs and resource drain. As a result, they should have some defensive advantages over your DK. Sload's can be a good 1v1 counterplay to bypass those defenses. But it should NOT stack. Suffering from 1 Sload stack is fine, but multiple stacks should not be imposed on a character that is paying for their defenses in ways that you do not. You, who do not pay the opportunity costs of defense, SHOULD be able to suffer multiple bleeds/DOTs/whatever. The whole point of investing in defensive strategies (shields, armor, buffs, etc) is that they should reduce incoming damage. Irresistible damage stacking contradicts the whole purpose of defensive strategies, leaving the players who made such investments at a distinct disadvantage against those who did not and suffer none of the opportunity costs. Preventing stacking levels the playing field. Their defensive investment would not stop all damage, since 1 stack gets through, but it would protect them from something that you rightfully should suffer since you're not paying the opportunity costs that they pay. Seeing Sload's and Viper/bleeds/etc as equivalent is a privilege that you enjoy as a non-defensive player. To others who have paid dearly to reduce incoming damage, Sload stacking destroys an entire playstyle.

(The same logic holds true for those investing in high armor resistances, slotting defensive buffs, and other mitigations strategies "your DK" does not use. Sorc shields just seem to be the one you're obsessed over.)

And for the record, I've never taken a mag sorc into PvP aside from a quick skill leveling.

Thank you for this logical explanation. I was just going to start hurling expletives.

Only it’s not a logical explanation. Its a sad whine that he shouldn’t be subject to what every class in the game deals with. Sorcs seem to be fine with stacking shields but stacking dots or anything in general that goes through shields is a big no no. Bleeds stack... bleeds completely ignore my physical defense.. how many sorcs you see posting about bleeds lately? None... because it doesn’t effect them.

I view this whine the same as I view all the people who rely on heals crying about defile. It’s silly... and asking for the one dot that effects your specific class to ignore the basic mechanics of every other dot in the game is downright hilarious.

IZZEFlameLash

Xsorus wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

i don't think its overpowered in CP, its probably overpowered in Non CP simply because most proc sets are.

By 1 proc, it isn't much of a threat unless paired with Bleeds and/or Defile. But it still stacks in CP and CP cannot stop it from doing full famage. And stacking is a problem when 2+ effects ticks for constant 853 each.

All dots stack; if you can’t handle two sloads you couldn’t handle two of pretty much every single dot in the game. The only people who seem to be upset about it stacking are magicka sorcs who have not actually had to deal with any stacking dots in this game like virtually every other class has.

Sure, tell me how your Vigor handles it just fine. Or any other of your heals that are not AoE damage based heals that hit more than 3 people. I will be waiting. Normal Vigor ticks for 1.1k~1.5k and 2 Sload's ticking is easily 1.6k while bleed also goes for 1.5k. Add in defile, you get 700~1.2k Vigor ticks. Every single dots except for bleed has to go through calculation of your own penetration, enemy resistances, and CPs. Bleed ignores resistance but has to go through CP checks and defense skills. Sload's don't and it stacks. Surely, you have to admit that it is a problem.

pieratsos

Xsorus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...for my DK...what i care about...

Well that certainly settles every question about how the entire game should be balanced, doesn't it?

Really, this is a stunning level of self-centeredness and personal bias. ESO is not a solo game populated with nothing but NPC's as far as the eye can see. There are other people in the universe. Balance matters.

Sharee wrote: »

Because there is no practical difference between sload and another DOT

Yes, there is. It has been clearly explained to you, but you simply refuse to accept the facts.

Sharee wrote: »

if my DK can get hit by four bleeds, there is no reason why your sorc shouldn't get hit by four sloads.

Yes, there is. Sorcs invest in a mitigation strategy that imposes an opportunity cost onto them. They pay for their defenses with constant GCD costs and resource drain. As a result, they should have some defensive advantages over your DK. Sload's can be a good 1v1 counterplay to bypass those defenses. But it should NOT stack. Suffering from 1 Sload stack is fine, but multiple stacks should not be imposed on a character that is paying for their defenses in ways that you do not. You, who do not pay the opportunity costs of defense, SHOULD be able to suffer multiple bleeds/DOTs/whatever. The whole point of investing in defensive strategies (shields, armor, buffs, etc) is that they should reduce incoming damage. Irresistible damage stacking contradicts the whole purpose of defensive strategies, leaving the players who made such investments at a distinct disadvantage against those who did not and suffer none of the opportunity costs. Preventing stacking levels the playing field. Their defensive investment would not stop all damage, since 1 stack gets through, but it would protect them from something that you rightfully should suffer since you're not paying the opportunity costs that they pay. Seeing Sload's and Viper/bleeds/etc as equivalent is a privilege that you enjoy as a non-defensive player. To others who have paid dearly to reduce incoming damage, Sload stacking destroys an entire playstyle.

(The same logic holds true for those investing in high armor resistances, slotting defensive buffs, and other mitigations strategies "your DK" does not use. Sorc shields just seem to be the one you're obsessed over.)

And for the record, I've never taken a mag sorc into PvP aside from a quick skill leveling.

Thank you for this logical explanation. I was just going to start hurling expletives.

Only it’s not a logical explanation. Its a sad whine that he shouldn’t be subject to what every class in the game deals with. Sorcs seem to be fine with stacking shields but stacking dots or anything in general that goes through shields is a big no no. Bleeds stack... bleeds completely ignore my physical defense.. how many sorcs you see posting about bleeds lately? None... because it doesn’t effect them.

I view this whine the same as I view all the people who rely on heals crying about defile. It’s silly... and asking for the one dot that effects your specific class to ignore the basic mechanics of every other dot in the game is downright hilarious.

That bolded statement is prety much the definition of irony. That dot already ignores the basic mechanics of every dot in the game. Thats the whole freaking point. Hilarious indeed.

Malamar1229

Put oblivion dmg on a minor/major system and viola! No more stacking.
Minor oblivion and major oblivion.

technohic

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Put oblivion dmg on a minor/major system and viola! No more stacking.
Minor oblivion and major oblivion.

That would do it for DOTs but direct damage abilities not so much.

I’m still not sold on stacking alone being the issue or even the damage alone. My beef with this along with other procs of the past is that it’s free damage without specking for it. See too many groups of 30k + health with no concern for sustain carried by garaunteed damage from light/heavy attacks and procs

Wish procs cost resources when they triggered and offensive ones scaled fro stats to where you’d have to be pretty invested to reach the current tooltip. Players that 1vx without procs put themselves at risk for damage or go defensive and risk taking too long to get zerged down. Proc users just get it both ways. It won’t carry anyone alone but the effort is less

IZZEFlameLash

I mean, Sload's should be disease damage more than anything. They created a plague, not Oblivion gates all over the place like Worm Cults and Mythic Dawn. 0 sense that this is Oblivion damage to begin with.

Gnortranermara

technohic wrote: »

it’s free damage without specking for it

There's no such thing. It's not "free". It carries the opportunity cost of not running another set that would give damage in other ways. Wearing the set, instead of something else, IS speccing for it.

IZZEFlameLash

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

it’s free damage without specking for it

There's no such thing. It's not "free". It carries the opportunity cost of not running another set that would give damage in other ways. Wearing the set, instead of something else, IS speccing for it.

If we want to delve into technicalities, there's no free things, yes. But relative cost of LA is much cheaper than using skills which costs 2~5k of any given resources. So, compared to others, Sload's easy proc condition makes it a lot cheaper to the point that it is near free of cost.

But then, this is a game. And technicalities are more or less not really good argument for defending Sload's. Irresistable damage that forces the resource drain that will result in death at dirt cheap cost and little to no efforts compared to otherwise, I'd say it is a free damage in comparison. Receiving end does have to pay much heavier price in resources and efforts than Sload's user. So yeah, it is like free damage.

Emma_Overload

Xsorus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...for my DK...what i care about...

Well that certainly settles every question about how the entire game should be balanced, doesn't it?

Really, this is a stunning level of self-centeredness and personal bias. ESO is not a solo game populated with nothing but NPC's as far as the eye can see. There are other people in the universe. Balance matters.

Sharee wrote: »

Because there is no practical difference between sload and another DOT

Yes, there is. It has been clearly explained to you, but you simply refuse to accept the facts.

Sharee wrote: »

if my DK can get hit by four bleeds, there is no reason why your sorc shouldn't get hit by four sloads.

Yes, there is. Sorcs invest in a mitigation strategy that imposes an opportunity cost onto them. They pay for their defenses with constant GCD costs and resource drain. As a result, they should have some defensive advantages over your DK. Sload's can be a good 1v1 counterplay to bypass those defenses. But it should NOT stack. Suffering from 1 Sload stack is fine, but multiple stacks should not be imposed on a character that is paying for their defenses in ways that you do not. You, who do not pay the opportunity costs of defense, SHOULD be able to suffer multiple bleeds/DOTs/whatever. The whole point of investing in defensive strategies (shields, armor, buffs, etc) is that they should reduce incoming damage. Irresistible damage stacking contradicts the whole purpose of defensive strategies, leaving the players who made such investments at a distinct disadvantage against those who did not and suffer none of the opportunity costs. Preventing stacking levels the playing field. Their defensive investment would not stop all damage, since 1 stack gets through, but it would protect them from something that you rightfully should suffer since you're not paying the opportunity costs that they pay. Seeing Sload's and Viper/bleeds/etc as equivalent is a privilege that you enjoy as a non-defensive player. To others who have paid dearly to reduce incoming damage, Sload stacking destroys an entire playstyle.

(The same logic holds true for those investing in high armor resistances, slotting defensive buffs, and other mitigations strategies "your DK" does not use. Sorc shields just seem to be the one you're obsessed over.)

And for the record, I've never taken a mag sorc into PvP aside from a quick skill leveling.

Thank you for this logical explanation. I was just going to start hurling expletives.

Only it’s not a logical explanation. Its a sad whine that he shouldn’t be subject to what every class in the game deals with. Sorcs seem to be fine with stacking shields but stacking dots or anything in general that goes through shields is a big no no. Bleeds stack... bleeds completely ignore my physical defense.. how many sorcs you see posting about bleeds lately? None... because it doesn’t effect them.

I view this whine the same as I view all the people who rely on heals crying about defile. It’s silly... and asking for the one dot that effects your specific class to ignore the basic mechanics of every other dot in the game is downright hilarious.

LOL @ "ignore the basic mechanics..."

You do realize the topic of this thread deals with Oblivion damage, which ignores ALL the mechanics of the rest of the game?

Defile and bleeds are strong, and they DO affect Sorcs at some point. Most of the crying about these two issues could easily be solved if they simply nerfed the Befoul CP and the Master's axes.

Oblivion damage, however, is massively overpowered by design. Nothing else in the game compares to it. In my opinion, Oblivion damage should not be available to players at all.

Xsorus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...for my DK...what i care about...

Well that certainly settles every question about how the entire game should be balanced, doesn't it?

Really, this is a stunning level of self-centeredness and personal bias. ESO is not a solo game populated with nothing but NPC's as far as the eye can see. There are other people in the universe. Balance matters.

Sharee wrote: »

Because there is no practical difference between sload and another DOT

Yes, there is. It has been clearly explained to you, but you simply refuse to accept the facts.

Sharee wrote: »

if my DK can get hit by four bleeds, there is no reason why your sorc shouldn't get hit by four sloads.

Yes, there is. Sorcs invest in a mitigation strategy that imposes an opportunity cost onto them. They pay for their defenses with constant GCD costs and resource drain. As a result, they should have some defensive advantages over your DK. Sload's can be a good 1v1 counterplay to bypass those defenses. But it should NOT stack. Suffering from 1 Sload stack is fine, but multiple stacks should not be imposed on a character that is paying for their defenses in ways that you do not. You, who do not pay the opportunity costs of defense, SHOULD be able to suffer multiple bleeds/DOTs/whatever. The whole point of investing in defensive strategies (shields, armor, buffs, etc) is that they should reduce incoming damage. Irresistible damage stacking contradicts the whole purpose of defensive strategies, leaving the players who made such investments at a distinct disadvantage against those who did not and suffer none of the opportunity costs. Preventing stacking levels the playing field. Their defensive investment would not stop all damage, since 1 stack gets through, but it would protect them from something that you rightfully should suffer since you're not paying the opportunity costs that they pay. Seeing Sload's and Viper/bleeds/etc as equivalent is a privilege that you enjoy as a non-defensive player. To others who have paid dearly to reduce incoming damage, Sload stacking destroys an entire playstyle.

(The same logic holds true for those investing in high armor resistances, slotting defensive buffs, and other mitigations strategies "your DK" does not use. Sorc shields just seem to be the one you're obsessed over.)

And for the record, I've never taken a mag sorc into PvP aside from a quick skill leveling.

Thank you for this logical explanation. I was just going to start hurling expletives.

Only it’s not a logical explanation. Its a sad whine that he shouldn’t be subject to what every class in the game deals with. Sorcs seem to be fine with stacking shields but stacking dots or anything in general that goes through shields is a big no no. Bleeds stack... bleeds completely ignore my physical defense.. how many sorcs you see posting about bleeds lately? None... because it doesn’t effect them.

I view this whine the same as I view all the people who rely on heals crying about defile. It’s silly... and asking for the one dot that effects your specific class to ignore the basic mechanics of every other dot in the game is downright hilarious.

LOL @ "ignore the basic mechanics..."

You do realize the topic of this thread deals with Oblivion damage, which ignores ALL the mechanics of the rest of the game?

Defile and bleeds are strong, and they DO affect Sorcs at some point. Most of the crying about these two issues could easily be solved if they simply nerfed the Befoul CP and the Master's axes.

Oblivion damage, however, is massively overpowered by design. Nothing else in the game compares to it. In my opinion, Oblivion damage should not be available to players at all.

Says the Sorc, that relies on Shields that Oblivion Damage ignores.

You think anyone not using a shield cares if they take 800 poison damage or 800 Oblivion damage? no we do not.

pieratsos wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...for my DK...what i care about...

Well that certainly settles every question about how the entire game should be balanced, doesn't it?

Really, this is a stunning level of self-centeredness and personal bias. ESO is not a solo game populated with nothing but NPC's as far as the eye can see. There are other people in the universe. Balance matters.

Sharee wrote: »

Because there is no practical difference between sload and another DOT

Yes, there is. It has been clearly explained to you, but you simply refuse to accept the facts.

Sharee wrote: »

if my DK can get hit by four bleeds, there is no reason why your sorc shouldn't get hit by four sloads.

Yes, there is. Sorcs invest in a mitigation strategy that imposes an opportunity cost onto them. They pay for their defenses with constant GCD costs and resource drain. As a result, they should have some defensive advantages over your DK. Sload's can be a good 1v1 counterplay to bypass those defenses. But it should NOT stack. Suffering from 1 Sload stack is fine, but multiple stacks should not be imposed on a character that is paying for their defenses in ways that you do not. You, who do not pay the opportunity costs of defense, SHOULD be able to suffer multiple bleeds/DOTs/whatever. The whole point of investing in defensive strategies (shields, armor, buffs, etc) is that they should reduce incoming damage. Irresistible damage stacking contradicts the whole purpose of defensive strategies, leaving the players who made such investments at a distinct disadvantage against those who did not and suffer none of the opportunity costs. Preventing stacking levels the playing field. Their defensive investment would not stop all damage, since 1 stack gets through, but it would protect them from something that you rightfully should suffer since you're not paying the opportunity costs that they pay. Seeing Sload's and Viper/bleeds/etc as equivalent is a privilege that you enjoy as a non-defensive player. To others who have paid dearly to reduce incoming damage, Sload stacking destroys an entire playstyle.

(The same logic holds true for those investing in high armor resistances, slotting defensive buffs, and other mitigations strategies "your DK" does not use. Sorc shields just seem to be the one you're obsessed over.)

And for the record, I've never taken a mag sorc into PvP aside from a quick skill leveling.

Thank you for this logical explanation. I was just going to start hurling expletives.

Only it’s not a logical explanation. Its a sad whine that he shouldn’t be subject to what every class in the game deals with. Sorcs seem to be fine with stacking shields but stacking dots or anything in general that goes through shields is a big no no. Bleeds stack... bleeds completely ignore my physical defense.. how many sorcs you see posting about bleeds lately? None... because it doesn’t effect them.

I view this whine the same as I view all the people who rely on heals crying about defile. It’s silly... and asking for the one dot that effects your specific class to ignore the basic mechanics of every other dot in the game is downright hilarious.

That bolded statement is prety much the definition of irony. That dot already ignores the basic mechanics of every dot in the game. Thats the whole freaking point. Hilarious indeed.

The dot doesn't ignore the basic mechanics of every dot, Oblivion damage is an actual mechanic of this game.

Dots themselves are mechanics of this game...Asking this one specific dot to not follow the rules of every other dot, in that it stacks because you dislike Oblivion damage is silly.

If this was say...Poison damage, and it ignored shields...that would be ignoring the mechanics of every other Poison Ability in this game...however since this mechanic is Oblivion damage, it follows the mechanics of Oblivion damage.

King_Thelon

That feeling when you wake up and realize you spent the whole night on the forums defending Sloads

Gnortranermara

Xsorus wrote: »

Only it’s not a logical explanation. Its a sad whine that he shouldn’t be subject to what every class in the game deals with.

As stated multiple times already, I don't run a sorc and I don't use shields in PvP. Everything else you said is already addressed and refuted in this thread so I'm not going to bother since you clearly can't be bothered to actually read the things you reply to, anyway.

Gnozo

Xsorus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...for my DK...what i care about...

Well that certainly settles every question about how the entire game should be balanced, doesn't it?

Really, this is a stunning level of self-centeredness and personal bias. ESO is not a solo game populated with nothing but NPC's as far as the eye can see. There are other people in the universe. Balance matters.

Sharee wrote: »

Because there is no practical difference between sload and another DOT

Yes, there is. It has been clearly explained to you, but you simply refuse to accept the facts.

Sharee wrote: »

if my DK can get hit by four bleeds, there is no reason why your sorc shouldn't get hit by four sloads.

Yes, there is. Sorcs invest in a mitigation strategy that imposes an opportunity cost onto them. They pay for their defenses with constant GCD costs and resource drain. As a result, they should have some defensive advantages over your DK. Sload's can be a good 1v1 counterplay to bypass those defenses. But it should NOT stack. Suffering from 1 Sload stack is fine, but multiple stacks should not be imposed on a character that is paying for their defenses in ways that you do not. You, who do not pay the opportunity costs of defense, SHOULD be able to suffer multiple bleeds/DOTs/whatever. The whole point of investing in defensive strategies (shields, armor, buffs, etc) is that they should reduce incoming damage. Irresistible damage stacking contradicts the whole purpose of defensive strategies, leaving the players who made such investments at a distinct disadvantage against those who did not and suffer none of the opportunity costs. Preventing stacking levels the playing field. Their defensive investment would not stop all damage, since 1 stack gets through, but it would protect them from something that you rightfully should suffer since you're not paying the opportunity costs that they pay. Seeing Sload's and Viper/bleeds/etc as equivalent is a privilege that you enjoy as a non-defensive player. To others who have paid dearly to reduce incoming damage, Sload stacking destroys an entire playstyle.

(The same logic holds true for those investing in high armor resistances, slotting defensive buffs, and other mitigations strategies "your DK" does not use. Sorc shields just seem to be the one you're obsessed over.)

And for the record, I've never taken a mag sorc into PvP aside from a quick skill leveling.

Thank you for this logical explanation. I was just going to start hurling expletives.

Only it’s not a logical explanation. Its a sad whine that he shouldn’t be subject to what every class in the game deals with. Sorcs seem to be fine with stacking shields but stacking dots or anything in general that goes through shields is a big no no. Bleeds stack... bleeds completely ignore my physical defense.. how many sorcs you see posting about bleeds lately? None... because it doesn’t effect them.

I view this whine the same as I view all the people who rely on heals crying about defile. It’s silly... and asking for the one dot that effects your specific class to ignore the basic mechanics of every other dot in the game is downright hilarious.

LOL @ "ignore the basic mechanics..."

You do realize the topic of this thread deals with Oblivion damage, which ignores ALL the mechanics of the rest of the game?

Defile and bleeds are strong, and they DO affect Sorcs at some point. Most of the crying about these two issues could easily be solved if they simply nerfed the Befoul CP and the Master's axes.

Oblivion damage, however, is massively overpowered by design. Nothing else in the game compares to it. In my opinion, Oblivion damage should not be available to players at all.

Says the Sorc, that relies on Shields that Oblivion Damage ignores.

You think anyone not using a shield cares if they take 800 poison damage or 800 Oblivion damage? no we do not.

pieratsos wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

...for my DK...what i care about...

Well that certainly settles every question about how the entire game should be balanced, doesn't it?

Really, this is a stunning level of self-centeredness and personal bias. ESO is not a solo game populated with nothing but NPC's as far as the eye can see. There are other people in the universe. Balance matters.

Sharee wrote: »

Because there is no practical difference between sload and another DOT

Yes, there is. It has been clearly explained to you, but you simply refuse to accept the facts.

Sharee wrote: »

if my DK can get hit by four bleeds, there is no reason why your sorc shouldn't get hit by four sloads.

Yes, there is. Sorcs invest in a mitigation strategy that imposes an opportunity cost onto them. They pay for their defenses with constant GCD costs and resource drain. As a result, they should have some defensive advantages over your DK. Sload's can be a good 1v1 counterplay to bypass those defenses. But it should NOT stack. Suffering from 1 Sload stack is fine, but multiple stacks should not be imposed on a character that is paying for their defenses in ways that you do not. You, who do not pay the opportunity costs of defense, SHOULD be able to suffer multiple bleeds/DOTs/whatever. The whole point of investing in defensive strategies (shields, armor, buffs, etc) is that they should reduce incoming damage. Irresistible damage stacking contradicts the whole purpose of defensive strategies, leaving the players who made such investments at a distinct disadvantage against those who did not and suffer none of the opportunity costs. Preventing stacking levels the playing field. Their defensive investment would not stop all damage, since 1 stack gets through, but it would protect them from something that you rightfully should suffer since you're not paying the opportunity costs that they pay. Seeing Sload's and Viper/bleeds/etc as equivalent is a privilege that you enjoy as a non-defensive player. To others who have paid dearly to reduce incoming damage, Sload stacking destroys an entire playstyle.

(The same logic holds true for those investing in high armor resistances, slotting defensive buffs, and other mitigations strategies "your DK" does not use. Sorc shields just seem to be the one you're obsessed over.)

And for the record, I've never taken a mag sorc into PvP aside from a quick skill leveling.

Thank you for this logical explanation. I was just going to start hurling expletives.

Only it’s not a logical explanation. Its a sad whine that he shouldn’t be subject to what every class in the game deals with. Sorcs seem to be fine with stacking shields but stacking dots or anything in general that goes through shields is a big no no. Bleeds stack... bleeds completely ignore my physical defense.. how many sorcs you see posting about bleeds lately? None... because it doesn’t effect them.

I view this whine the same as I view all the people who rely on heals crying about defile. It’s silly... and asking for the one dot that effects your specific class to ignore the basic mechanics of every other dot in the game is downright hilarious.

That bolded statement is prety much the definition of irony. That dot already ignores the basic mechanics of every dot in the game. Thats the whole freaking point. Hilarious indeed.

The dot doesn't ignore the basic mechanics of every dot, Oblivion damage is an actual mechanic of this game.

Dots themselves are mechanics of this game...Asking this one specific dot to not follow the rules of every other dot, in that it stacks because you dislike Oblivion damage is silly.

If this was say...Poison damage, and it ignored shields...that would be ignoring the mechanics of every other Poison Ability in this game...however since this mechanic is Oblivion damage, it follows the mechanics of Oblivion damage.

Just image 4 dks with 60k hp chasing you with chains and putting sloads on you.

You wont survive, you wont kill anyone of them.

Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.

Balance

Sharee

Gnozo wrote: »

Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.

Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.

By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.

Feanor

@Sharee

You don’t see a problem with someone being able to build tanky and have sufficient damage to get kills on his own?

Sharee

Feanor wrote: »

@Sharee

You don’t see a problem with someone being able to build tanky and have sufficient damage to get kills on his own?

If a 60K hp tank who is not able to damage you with anything except sload can kill your magicka sorc ON HIS OWN, then you have bigger problems than sload.

Besides: you don't see the irony of a magsorc complaining about someone else being tanky and have sufficient damage to get kills on his own?

Gnozo

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.

Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.

By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.

60k hp Tanks have how much stamina? 15k? Weapon damage like 1.5k? Ofc the damage is low. Thats Not intented by the players, thats part of the game design.

Want to be tanky? Stack into health and Resist.

Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.

Dont know why anyone would say this is not true. Honestly, do you even play the game?

Sharee

Gnozo wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.

Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.

By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.

Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.

Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:

"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)

Gnozo

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.

Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.

By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.

Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.

Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:

"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)

I am talking about the skills they use. Like dizzy, heroic, Ransack or anything else. It wont hit hard. It would only tickle. Thats what i mean, how can you not see this?

Sharee

Gnozo wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.

Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.

By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.

Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.

Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:

"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)

I am talking about the skills they use. Like dizzy, heroic, Ransack or anything else. It wont hit hard. It would only tickle. Thats what i mean, how can you not see this?

What i see is someone who believes if an enemy can not do damage with dizzy or heroic, he absolutely must not be able to do damage in any other way either. That's not how this game works.

Feanor

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Sharee

You don’t see a problem with someone being able to build tanky and have sufficient damage to get kills on his own?

If a 60K hp tank who is not able to damage you with anything except sload can kill your magicka sorc ON HIS OWN, then you have bigger problems than sload.

Besides: you don't see the irony of a magsorc complaining about someone else being tanky and have sufficient damage to get kills on his own?

The Sload’s is just the icing on the cake in these builds. Of course it’s garnered with all other proc cheese available. You don’t even have to go full tank - just take @Lexxypwns NB build that goes with Troll King + Sload’s + Durok’s Bane and Willpower.

3,6 k HP Regen on top of Healing Ward while the damage is sufficient because Major Defile is so strong: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415388/clockwork-sload-no-stealth-mageblade-meta-harder-max-cheese/p1

Besides, Sorcs aren’t tanky - I don’t see any that could tank 5+ competent players these days.

Gnozo

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Even tho, they chose to be a full Tank and supposed to have 0 damage by game design cause Tanks are for tanking not for killing.

Here we go again: Players inventing rules and then getting mad when others don't follow them.

By game design, how much damage a player does depends on what build/equipment he uses, not on what label you decide to stick on him.

Want to do damage? Stack in magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage.

Here we go again. Player-invented rule #2:

"If a player wants to do damage, he MUST stack magicka or stamina and weapon or spell damage, REGARDLESS of what equipment he uses!" (otherwise i'll get mad)

I am talking about the skills they use. Like dizzy, heroic, Ransack or anything else. It wont hit hard. It would only tickle. Thats what i mean, how can you not see this?

What i see is someone who believes if an enemy can not do damage with dizzy or heroic, he absolutely must not be able to do damage in any other way either. That's not how this game works.

Isnt this part of any type of game balance? Players who can take more damage then other players are balanced that they do less damage. Thats basic knowledge of balance.

And the classes are built like this. Thats why damage ABILITIES scale from stamina/magicka and spell/weapon damage.

Now zenimax comes and puts sets in the game that do damage itself so you dont need to care about your offensive stats anymore to kill players cause all it takes are these sets. Wasnt like this before. So ofc we complain about where this game goes cause its the opposite of where it used to be.

The general mechanic of the game was to invest in your offensive STATS to do damage. Now this has changed completly and you can happily put all in defensive and the damage you do is coming from the armor sets you put on. This doesnt require a well designed rotation and ressource Management anymore. Proc conditions can be achived by left click spam and this and the proc itself doesnt cost you any ressource anymore. So why even care about?
This game changed from a competetive pvp experience to proc set vs proc set.

This is just said and needs to be said so devs will eventually rethink their decisions.

Sharee

Feanor wrote: »

Besides, Sorcs aren’t tanky - I don’t see any that could tank 5+ competent players these days.

So a sorc is not considered tanky unless he can tank at least 6 competent players at once. The world sorcerers live in these days...

Feanor

Sharee wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Besides, Sorcs aren’t tanky - I don’t see any that could tank 5+ competent players these days.

So a sorc is not considered tanky unless he can tank at least 6 competent players at once. The world sorcerers live in these days...

Well. I see plenty of DKs and Templars who can.

Sharee

Gnozo wrote: »

The general mechanic of the game was to invest in your offensive STATS to do damage.

The general mechanic of the game is that if you want to do damage, you build your character for it. And a build includes both stats and equipment.

Koensol

Sharee wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

If my stamina DK can be affected by multiple vipers ticking for ~800 each, i don't see why a sorc should not be affected by multiple sloads ticking for ~800 each.

Having a shield does not make one special.

The difference is that Sload's is irresistible. There's nothing whatsoever you can do about it but die if too much gets stacked onto you. Resistible damage is categorically different from a design perspective. One can choose to invest in resistance strategies to mitigate it. It takes MUCH more of that kind of damage for death to become inevitable. Making those mitigation investments (shields or armor or defensive buffs or CP or whatever) comes at a cost, making it balanced and acceptable that such damage can stack. You can either acknowledge the objective difference or you can play denial games. The facts won't change: these two things are different and nobody benefits from pretending that they are the same when they obviously aren't.

So distilled down, your argument is that sload's damage can not be lessened by investing into resistance.

To this, i reply: Sload hits for roughly the same as viper *after* resistances have been taken into account for viper.
In other words, the "resistance" to sload is already built-in into the base damage of the ability.

Honestly, the only thing I can say to this is: LMFAO.

If viper/sheer venom are hitting for the same on you, lets say about 800, that means you literally have 0 resistance and damage reduction. 6400 damage over 4 seconds --> 6400/4 = 1600, divided by 2 (battlespirit) = 800. After that, stuff like maim, protection and resistances come into mind. On any normal and competent target using buffs and debuffs and has good resistance, viper dot will hit for like 350-400 max. Sloads hits at least 2 times as hard. You are just so wrong, my eyes are bleeding.

Gnozo

Sharee wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

The general mechanic of the game was to invest in your offensive STATS to do damage.

The general mechanic of the game is that if you want to do damage, you build your character for it. And a build includes both stats and equipment.

If you would read my statement again i said:

Gnozo wrote: »

The general mechanic of the game was to invest in your offensive STATS to do damage.

Saying that you used to put on sets that increased your offensive stats so you have more damage on your abilities. And is not the case anymore. sure you can still do it But You wont be efficient as a build wich utilize damage proc sets.

And thats my main complain point. With all these instant damage proc sets it doesnt require as much skill and knowledge about your class and mechanic as it used to be. The game gets more and more casual.