RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Honestly only one thing needs to be changed:
Undead are immune to bleeding damage
This is TES universe, and Undead have NEVER in the lore history of the game been vulnerable to bleeding damage. Undead literally have no blood to bleed. So if your vampire you should be immune to bleeding just like Argonians are immunue to the Diseased and Poisoned Status effect, Dark Elves are immune to the Burning Status effect, and Bosmer are immune to the Diseased and Poisoned Status effect.
If Vampires/Undead are going to be weak to fire and Dawnbreaker(which by lore is accurate) then they most certainly should be immune to bleeding.
nerf bleeds? damn, i would buff them to hit through absorb shields too. How can a magical absorption shield cover the caster's body bleeding. Bleeds deal pretty low dmg too i think. Some good tank won't die from ur bleeds will just passively outheal them.
Your axe has to hit the body to cause bleeding in the first place
That should be the epitome of any low level or low skilled person who pvps.They add variety to builds and gameplay, so no. Bleeds aren't OP, though yes they can be very strong. The strongest builds in the game don't use bleeds, they are based around direct damage. Stop crying for nerfs for every thing you struggle against.
Drakkdjinn wrote: »No -- There Will Be Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5d9BrLN5K4
Pro tip for magplars, your class purge removes more effects than the total number of bleeds that exist in this game, and it should be on your bar already anyway. Just sayin - you have a button for this buddy.
That cleanse costs more then any stamina ability i can think of
IZZESparkling wrote: »Given the trend, it should be brought in line with other DoTs by make it affected by resistances. And would not be surprised if this will be the case. Lol. Just like power lash change, suddenly becoming a glitch to fix
In comparison to Power-Lash being un-dodgeable (I suppose it´s that you mean by the "glitch"), bleed ignoring physical resistance isn´t a glitch. And there´re a number of ways to mitigate or counter bleed-damage.
* CP: Putting points into thick-skinned (not viable for no-CP though)
* Using shields: Harness magicka, Hardened Ward, Healing Ward. Bleed-damage doesn´t ignore shields.
* Applying Minor/Major protection to yourself
* Applying minor/major maim to your enemy
* Having a friend using guard (alliance war skilline) on you
* Using cloak, while in cloak you´ll supress the bleed-dot
* Purge the DoT
Bleed-damage ignore physical resistance and can´t be mitigate by block. However, bleed-damage doesn´t ignore critical resistance. Bleed-damage is a direct counter to tanky builds that utilizes block as their main defense. Making bleed being mitigated by resistance would just buff the already overperforming mitigation in PvP.
IZZESparkling wrote: »Given the trend, it should be brought in line with other DoTs by make it affected by resistances. And would not be surprised if this will be the case. Lol. Just like power lash change, suddenly becoming a glitch to fix
In comparison to Power-Lash being un-dodgeable (I suppose it´s that you mean by the "glitch"), bleed ignoring physical resistance isn´t a glitch. And there´re a number of ways to mitigate or counter bleed-damage.
* CP: Putting points into thick-skinned (not viable for no-CP though)
* Using shields: Harness magicka, Hardened Ward, Healing Ward. Bleed-damage doesn´t ignore shields.
* Applying Minor/Major protection to yourself
* Applying minor/major maim to your enemy
* Having a friend using guard (alliance war skilline) on you
* Using cloak, while in cloak you´ll supress the bleed-dot
* Purge the DoT
Bleed-damage ignore physical resistance and can´t be mitigate by block. However, bleed-damage doesn´t ignore critical resistance. Bleed-damage is a direct counter to tanky builds that utilizes block as their main defense. Making bleed being mitigated by resistance would just buff the already overperforming mitigation in PvP.
Don't forget that OP is a magplar main, I don't even know why he's [snip] about bleeds to begin with. But then again, that's skander's MO - cry about things that are beating you.
Because contrary to popular belief, purge doesn't always catch the bleeds. And with no viable shield to justify slotting with similar cost BoL, bleeds kinda hurt.
This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.
Speed_Kills wrote: »Slot rapid regen if you can't handle bleeds with extended ritual alone.
I won't change my build becouse something isn't balanced
This comment is perfect summary showing why it's worthless to even talk with OP. He doesnt want to adapt he just want to play as he wants and everything around beeing adapted to his playstyle.
It's not adaptation. it's unfairness
Well lets maybe talk then about unfaif combo of extended ritual+Honor the Dead ? Dont You think it's much bigger unfairness how immortal You can be because of that even if someone is constantly applying bleeds ? And if You are not then it's just L2P issue.
Also how can You tell it's not about adaptation if You didnt tried to adapt preffering instead whining ?
Let's count:
3.5k (optimal cost of cleansing)+ 2k (optimal with the mag return) heal
vs
Free spammable bleed.
Whatcha say?
This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.
Devil’s Advocate
Since bleed has special properties, it shouldnt be just lumped into ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Its in the same category as Oblivion damage imo. You counter others sources of damage with resistance and/or blocking. This doesnt counter bleed so it cant be defended against the same way other damage types can.
Wether or not the player sacrifices something to acheive high bleed damage does not take away from the fact that its still different from other damage types.
The question i have is, why does bleed need to go unmitigated verses other dots? Is there a magicka equivalent? If not, then why not? If so, does it have valid counter-play?
“ I dont like bleeds so how can I minimize this damage type as much as possible?”
“In the event that i run into a high bleed damage build, How can i deal with this person?”
“ I spec my build to be strong against dots, why does bleed still hit really hard?”
How would you answer these questions if it was what OP had posted.
Let's take this another direction.
Please list methods of bleed mitigation for non-Templar classes outside of spamming efficient purge & running yourself out of resources.
This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.
Devil’s Advocate
Since bleed has special properties, it shouldnt be just lumped into ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Its in the same category as Oblivion damage imo. You counter others sources of damage with resistance and/or blocking. This doesnt counter bleed so it cant be defended against the same way other damage types can.
Wether or not the player sacrifices something to acheive high bleed damage does not take away from the fact that its still different from other damage types.
The question i have is, why does bleed need to go unmitigated verses other dots? Is there a magicka equivalent? If not, then why not? If so, does it have valid counter-play?
“ I dont like bleeds so how can I minimize this damage type as much as possible?”
“In the event that i run into a high bleed damage build, How can i deal with this person?”
“ I spec my build to be strong against dots, why does bleed still hit really hard?”
How would you answer these questions if it was what OP had posted.Let's take this another direction.
Please list methods of bleed mitigation for non-Templar classes outside of spamming efficient purge & running yourself out of resources.
Think I already wrote a response to this but I´ll give it another go
* Shields:
- Harness Magicka: Available for all magicka setups
- Hardened Ward (and the other morph ofc): Exclusive for magsorcs
- Healing Ward: Available for mag-setups
- Igneous Shield: Maybe not super-useful but will still mitigate the bleed
* "Semi-purge": Warden´s Betty Netch, sure it´s only 1 effect at the time but still.....
* Using other sources of mitigation:
- Minor/Major protection: Accessible if running together or as a warden.
- Minor/Major maim: Very strong debuffs against enemies. Nightblades get it from using one of the fear-morphs or using shade. Wizard´s Riposte is probably the best source of minor maim and isn´t an unusual set for mag-setups. Stambuilds can use heroic slash for minor maim. As a warden you´ve the option to use the skills from winter´s embrace skilline to proc the chilled status effect which applies minor maim (but usually as a warden you´ve so many sources of healing that you should in most cases be able to outheal the bleed). MagDK´s can use Choking Talon´s to proc minor maim.
Using Cloak:
Cloak will not remove the bleed-dot, but it will supress it for the cloak duration. Sure cloak can be a bit buggy sometimes but it´s still a viable way to counter bleeds.
So in general there´re many way of countering a bleed-build without using purge-mechanics. Now, I´ve no idea what build/setup OP is using. But if bleed-builds is the only way, or one of few ways, other players can counter your build, isn´t that somewhat balanced?
This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.
Devil’s Advocate
Since bleed has special properties, it shouldnt be just lumped into ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Its in the same category as Oblivion damage imo. You counter others sources of damage with resistance and/or blocking. This doesnt counter bleed so it cant be defended against the same way other damage types can.
Wether or not the player sacrifices something to acheive high bleed damage does not take away from the fact that its still different from other damage types.
The question i have is, why does bleed need to go unmitigated verses other dots? Is there a magicka equivalent? If not, then why not? If so, does it have valid counter-play?
“ I dont like bleeds so how can I minimize this damage type as much as possible?”
“In the event that i run into a high bleed damage build, How can i deal with this person?”
“ I spec my build to be strong against dots, why does bleed still hit really hard?”
How would you answer these questions if it was what OP had posted.Let's take this another direction.
Please list methods of bleed mitigation for non-Templar classes outside of spamming efficient purge & running yourself out of resources.
Think I already wrote a response to this but I´ll give it another go
* Shields:
- Harness Magicka: Available for all magicka setups
- Hardened Ward (and the other morph ofc): Exclusive for magsorcs
- Healing Ward: Available for mag-setups
- Igneous Shield: Maybe not super-useful but will still mitigate the bleed
* "Semi-purge": Warden´s Betty Netch, sure it´s only 1 effect at the time but still.....
* Using other sources of mitigation:
- Minor/Major protection: Accessible if running together or as a warden.
- Minor/Major maim: Very strong debuffs against enemies. Nightblades get it from using one of the fear-morphs or using shade. Wizard´s Riposte is probably the best source of minor maim and isn´t an unusual set for mag-setups. Stambuilds can use heroic slash for minor maim. As a warden you´ve the option to use the skills from winter´s embrace skilline to proc the chilled status effect which applies minor maim (but usually as a warden you´ve so many sources of healing that you should in most cases be able to outheal the bleed). MagDK´s can use Choking Talon´s to proc minor maim.
Using Cloak:
Cloak will not remove the bleed-dot, but it will supress it for the cloak duration. Sure cloak can be a bit buggy sometimes but it´s still a viable way to counter bleeds.
So in general there´re many way of countering a bleed-build without using purge-mechanics. Now, I´ve no idea what build/setup OP is using. But if bleed-builds is the only way, or one of few ways, other players can counter your build, isn´t that somewhat balanced?
Now that, that's out of the way...
You listed plenty of methods for MAGIC users to attempt to counter bleeds but what about stam users???
So minor maim seems the only potential counter.
Has anyone even tested this to ensure it works properly and reduces bleed ticks?
Also, bleeds EAT shields, how many times can a bleed tick?
I'm use to seeing that 4th or 5th tick being OVER 10k
Bleeds are literally free. Free.
You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds
When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.
At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.
See ya in bgs folks
Bleeds are literally free. Free.
You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds
When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.
At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.
See ya in bgs folks
There´re 2 bleeds in this game that are considered "free" and those are the two you mention. I´m not considering the WW light attack bleed "free" since I´ve to transform into a WW to do so.
Bleeds are not un-mitigatable. Read your own thread. The average bleed tick from a non-werewolf player will sit at around 1,5-2k (non crit). That´s 1-2k DPS at most. If you as a Templar can´t outheal 1-2k DPS in PvP I don´t even know.......
Bleeds are literally free. Free.
You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds
When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.
At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.
See ya in bgs folks
There´re 2 bleeds in this game that are considered "free" and those are the two you mention. I´m not considering the WW light attack bleed "free" since I´ve to transform into a WW to do so.
Bleeds are not un-mitigatable. Read your own thread. The average bleed tick from a non-werewolf player will sit at around 1,5-2k (non crit). That´s 1-2k DPS at most. If you as a Templar can´t outheal 1-2k DPS in PvP I don´t even know.......
Besides CP (oh, those don't work in non cp) you can't mitigate them.