The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Bleed
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Honestly only one thing needs to be changed:
Undead are immune to bleeding damage
This is TES universe, and Undead have NEVER in the lore history of the game been vulnerable to bleeding damage. Undead literally have no blood to bleed. So if your vampire you should be immune to bleeding just like Argonians are immunue to the Diseased and Poisoned Status effect, Dark Elves are immune to the Burning Status effect, and Bosmer are immune to the Diseased and Poisoned Status effect.
If Vampires/Undead are going to be weak to fire and Dawnbreaker(which by lore is accurate) then they most certainly should be immune to bleeding.
That actually seems nice!Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual8 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerf bleeds? damn, i would buff them to hit through absorb shields too. How can a magical absorption shield cover the caster's body bleeding. Bleeds deal pretty low dmg too i think. Some good tank won't die from ur bleeds will just passively outheal them.
Your axe has to hit the body to cause bleeding in the first place
my axes wounds you first, you bleed 2 ticks, then you put the absorb shield, and the next ticks during the same dot don't deal damage anymore. Either allow the bleeds to apply through absorption shields, either make them deal damage if applied before.-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭I do wish they made the bleed application more active, instead of just a proc chance. Or an increased proc chance when you do a heavy attack of varying charges.
Other than that, I think any changes are just pointlessly convoluted. Once you start getting into 'it doesn't make SENSE' or 'this is how it works in RL', then you open a pretty big can of worms that's just...imo a waste of effort to deal with.
If you like, imagine that shields cover the body in a thin film, and thus staunch bleeding.0 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭Please, stop speaking like that having a purge solves dot problems. It doesn't.Boadrig, EU PC
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Anethum✭✭✭✭Yeah, bleed works too chaotic.
Ignoring resists, stupid work of bleeding on dual wields, where u or do not proc it at all or very rare, if axe is in offhand, no control of this effect in general...
I tryed to use bleeding builds and hadn't much problems with counter it.
But this is too easy for one classes and absurdly hard for others to counter bleeding.
My opinion that here is bad designed type of damage
@ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom what's the reason of how bleeding work (or not work) on offhand axe now?
P.s: And yeah, it's crap conceptually that mechanical, undead, no blood nature etc creatures can take bleeding damage. Or disease, poison and burning on mechanical etc etc...Edited by Anethum on February 24, 2018 9:20PM@Anethum from .ua0 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭
That should be the epitome of any low level or low skilled person who pvps.They add variety to builds and gameplay, so no. Bleeds aren't OP, though yes they can be very strong. The strongest builds in the game don't use bleeds, they are based around direct damage. Stop crying for nerfs for every thing you struggle against.
0 -
Mazbt✭✭✭✭No. Thank you.Mazari the Resurrected (AD)- PVP stamplar main
Maz the Druid - PVP group stam warden
- many others
____________
Fantasia0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »No -- There Will Be Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5d9BrLN5K4
Pro tip for magplars, your class purge removes more effects than the total number of bleeds that exist in this game, and it should be on your bar already anyway. Just sayin - you have a button for this buddy.
That cleanse costs more then any stamina ability i can think of
Wait, are you trying to say cleanse is bad or something?
Seriously is that what you try to imply?3 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭IZZESparkling wrote: »Given the trend, it should be brought in line with other DoTs by make it affected by resistances. And would not be surprised if this will be the case. Lol. Just like power lash change, suddenly becoming a glitch to fix
In comparison to Power-Lash being un-dodgeable (I suppose it´s that you mean by the "glitch"), bleed ignoring physical resistance isn´t a glitch. And there´re a number of ways to mitigate or counter bleed-damage.
* CP: Putting points into thick-skinned (not viable for no-CP though)
* Using shields: Harness magicka, Hardened Ward, Healing Ward. Bleed-damage doesn´t ignore shields.
* Applying Minor/Major protection to yourself
* Applying minor/major maim to your enemy
* Having a friend using guard (alliance war skilline) on you
* Using cloak, while in cloak you´ll supress the bleed-dot
* Purge the DoT
Bleed-damage ignore physical resistance and can´t be mitigate by block. However, bleed-damage doesn´t ignore critical resistance. Bleed-damage is a direct counter to tanky builds that utilizes block as their main defense. Making bleed being mitigated by resistance would just buff the already overperforming mitigation in PvP.
Gotta keep the consistency you know. Gotta bring everything in line, in accordance to their own balancing philosophy. Most people assumed that power lash being undodgeable was also not a glitch after they made changes to lash's initial hit to be dodgeable. Power lash was left alone for a while. Then it was suddenly made a glitch to fix. I actually wouldn't be surprised that bleed will become the same anyways. You might see one day, "Bug fix: Bleeding effect has been not affected physical resistance stat. To bring it in line with other damage over time effects, it is now affected by physical resistance properly as intended." Lol that will be the day no one will use axes.
For the record, I am not so sure if it is over the top but it does make other weapons unused. Never felt it was too OP in Cyrodiil. Nonetheless, would not be surprised to see ZOS adjust it in the future.Edited by IZZEFlameLash on February 20, 2018 10:42PMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll just chime in and say cleanse isn't always effective when it comes to purging what you want, especially with the plethora of negative effects in the game. And spamming it will leave you with no resources.
Bleeds and dot builds are good but I don't think they need a nerf.2 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭All I've taken from this thread is that there are a lot of people that can't do basic math and most of them are running at least 1 axe on a dueling build.
There were a lot of people saying L2P back when proc sets could crit. Not surprising that many of those same people are defending bleeds.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No. Sincerely someone who plays a blocky (sometimes) DK.
Purge, heal, etc. They deal around the same level damage as a normal dot unless you play a high resist build, which is exactly what they counter. You can't go around and say, omg, look at FM ignoring all my roots. Because that is the point.Edited by ak_pvp on February 21, 2018 3:20AMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.6 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
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Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard5 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭IZZESparkling wrote: »Given the trend, it should be brought in line with other DoTs by make it affected by resistances. And would not be surprised if this will be the case. Lol. Just like power lash change, suddenly becoming a glitch to fix
In comparison to Power-Lash being un-dodgeable (I suppose it´s that you mean by the "glitch"), bleed ignoring physical resistance isn´t a glitch. And there´re a number of ways to mitigate or counter bleed-damage.
* CP: Putting points into thick-skinned (not viable for no-CP though)
* Using shields: Harness magicka, Hardened Ward, Healing Ward. Bleed-damage doesn´t ignore shields.
* Applying Minor/Major protection to yourself
* Applying minor/major maim to your enemy
* Having a friend using guard (alliance war skilline) on you
* Using cloak, while in cloak you´ll supress the bleed-dot
* Purge the DoT
Bleed-damage ignore physical resistance and can´t be mitigate by block. However, bleed-damage doesn´t ignore critical resistance. Bleed-damage is a direct counter to tanky builds that utilizes block as their main defense. Making bleed being mitigated by resistance would just buff the already overperforming mitigation in PvP.
Don't forget that OP is a magplar main, I don't even know why he's [snip] about bleeds to begin with. But then again, that's skander's MO - cry about things that are beating you.
Because contrary to popular belief, purge doesn't always catch the bleeds. And with no viable shield to justify slotting with similar cost BoL, bleeds kinda hurt.
Im tired of people assuming purge will always clease the debuffs and DOTs you want gone. afaik its random. Shizz will purge entropy but not Talons, maelstrom 2h dot, but not bleed. There needs to br a priority purge. Same thing gose for Inefficient purge in the support line, im tired of purging 4 times just to get a mark off me as a magblade.
[Edited to remove profanity]Edited by ZOS_KatP on February 21, 2018 8:02PMXB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
I agree with this. I have yet to encounter very strong DoT build personally but they are there. I just haven't face them yet because everyone's focused on the burst. At this stage, I feel pretty neutral about it as mostly mDK playerEdited by IZZEFlameLash on February 21, 2018 4:07AMImperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.5 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.
Devil’s Advocate
Since bleed has special properties, it shouldnt be just lumped into ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Its in the same category as Oblivion damage imo. You counter others sources of damage with resistance and/or blocking. This doesnt counter bleed so it cant be defended against the same way other damage types can.
Wether or not the player sacrifices something to acheive high bleed damage does not take away from the fact that its still different from other damage types.
The question i have is, why does bleed need to go unmitigated verses other dots? Is there a magicka equivalent? If not, then why not? If so, does it have valid counter-play?
“ I dont like bleeds so how can I minimize this damage type as much as possible?”
“In the event that i run into a high bleed damage build, How can i deal with this person?”
“ I spec my build to be strong against dots, why does bleed still hit really hard?”
How would you answer these questions if it was what OP had posted.
XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Speed_Kills wrote: »Slot rapid regen if you can't handle bleeds with extended ritual alone.
I won't change my build becouse something isn't balanced
This comment is perfect summary showing why it's worthless to even talk with OP. He doesnt want to adapt he just want to play as he wants and everything around beeing adapted to his playstyle.
It's not adaptation. it's unfairness
Well lets maybe talk then about unfaif combo of extended ritual+Honor the Dead ? Dont You think it's much bigger unfairness how immortal You can be because of that even if someone is constantly applying bleeds ? And if You are not then it's just L2P issue.
Also how can You tell it's not about adaptation if You didnt tried to adapt preffering instead whining ?
Let's count:
3.5k (optimal cost of cleansing)+ 2k (optimal with the mag return) heal
vs
Free spammable bleed.
Whatcha say?
Have You also considered that 5 other players can apply those bleeds on You and You can cleanse them all and overheal health los with 1 button ?...
Stop avoiding reality. You have stupidly strong tools on your build yet You're crying about everything that You cannot deal with not even because it's strong but because You dont know how to play against that ? You know what ok lets nerf bleeds but also lets nerf 5 negative effects removal from extended ritual down to 1. Are You ok with that ?3 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's take this another direction.
Please list methods of bleed mitigation for non-Templar classes outside of spamming efficient purge & running yourself out of resources.Member of:
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.
Devil’s Advocate
Since bleed has special properties, it shouldnt be just lumped into ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Its in the same category as Oblivion damage imo. You counter others sources of damage with resistance and/or blocking. This doesnt counter bleed so it cant be defended against the same way other damage types can.
Wether or not the player sacrifices something to acheive high bleed damage does not take away from the fact that its still different from other damage types.
The question i have is, why does bleed need to go unmitigated verses other dots? Is there a magicka equivalent? If not, then why not? If so, does it have valid counter-play?
“ I dont like bleeds so how can I minimize this damage type as much as possible?”
“In the event that i run into a high bleed damage build, How can i deal with this person?”
“ I spec my build to be strong against dots, why does bleed still hit really hard?”
How would you answer these questions if it was what OP had posted.Let's take this another direction.
Please list methods of bleed mitigation for non-Templar classes outside of spamming efficient purge & running yourself out of resources.
Think I already wrote a response to this but I´ll give it another go
* Shields:
- Harness Magicka: Available for all magicka setups
- Hardened Ward (and the other morph ofc): Exclusive for magsorcs
- Healing Ward: Available for mag-setups
- Igneous Shield: Maybe not super-useful but will still mitigate the bleed
* "Semi-purge": Warden´s Betty Netch, sure it´s only 1 effect at the time but still.....
* Using other sources of mitigation:
- Minor/Major protection: Accessible if running together or as a warden.
- Minor/Major maim: Very strong debuffs against enemies. Nightblades get it from using one of the fear-morphs or using shade. Wizard´s Riposte is probably the best source of minor maim and isn´t an unusual set for mag-setups. Stambuilds can use heroic slash for minor maim. As a warden you´ve the option to use the skills from winter´s embrace skilline to proc the chilled status effect which applies minor maim (but usually as a warden you´ve so many sources of healing that you should in most cases be able to outheal the bleed). MagDK´s can use Choking Talon´s to proc minor maim.
Using Cloak:
Cloak will not remove the bleed-dot, but it will supress it for the cloak duration. Sure cloak can be a bit buggy sometimes but it´s still a viable way to counter bleeds.
So in general there´re many way of countering a bleed-build without using purge-mechanics. Now, I´ve no idea what build/setup OP is using. But if bleed-builds is the only way, or one of few ways, other players can counter your build, isn´t that somewhat balanced?Edited by Qbiken on February 21, 2018 9:11AM4 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.
Devil’s Advocate
Since bleed has special properties, it shouldnt be just lumped into ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Its in the same category as Oblivion damage imo. You counter others sources of damage with resistance and/or blocking. This doesnt counter bleed so it cant be defended against the same way other damage types can.
Wether or not the player sacrifices something to acheive high bleed damage does not take away from the fact that its still different from other damage types.
The question i have is, why does bleed need to go unmitigated verses other dots? Is there a magicka equivalent? If not, then why not? If so, does it have valid counter-play?
“ I dont like bleeds so how can I minimize this damage type as much as possible?”
“In the event that i run into a high bleed damage build, How can i deal with this person?”
“ I spec my build to be strong against dots, why does bleed still hit really hard?”
How would you answer these questions if it was what OP had posted.Let's take this another direction.
Please list methods of bleed mitigation for non-Templar classes outside of spamming efficient purge & running yourself out of resources.
Think I already wrote a response to this but I´ll give it another go
* Shields:
- Harness Magicka: Available for all magicka setups
- Hardened Ward (and the other morph ofc): Exclusive for magsorcs
- Healing Ward: Available for mag-setups
- Igneous Shield: Maybe not super-useful but will still mitigate the bleed
* "Semi-purge": Warden´s Betty Netch, sure it´s only 1 effect at the time but still.....
* Using other sources of mitigation:
- Minor/Major protection: Accessible if running together or as a warden.
- Minor/Major maim: Very strong debuffs against enemies. Nightblades get it from using one of the fear-morphs or using shade. Wizard´s Riposte is probably the best source of minor maim and isn´t an unusual set for mag-setups. Stambuilds can use heroic slash for minor maim. As a warden you´ve the option to use the skills from winter´s embrace skilline to proc the chilled status effect which applies minor maim (but usually as a warden you´ve so many sources of healing that you should in most cases be able to outheal the bleed). MagDK´s can use Choking Talon´s to proc minor maim.
Using Cloak:
Cloak will not remove the bleed-dot, but it will supress it for the cloak duration. Sure cloak can be a bit buggy sometimes but it´s still a viable way to counter bleeds.
So in general there´re many way of countering a bleed-build without using purge-mechanics. Now, I´ve no idea what build/setup OP is using. But if bleed-builds is the only way, or one of few ways, other players can counter your build, isn´t that somewhat balanced?
He can just stop holding block until he can't break free anymore, then he'd easily be able to stay on his feet and press Purify.PC EU0 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is what’s wrong with forums. Instead of saying it doesnt need a nerf , baiting him, Insulting his skill, intelligence, and telling him to “GIT GUD”. How about we be constructive and list VALID(Not build sacrificing) counters. I, for one rarley run into bleed builds but when i do they’re VERY oppressive. I would love to hear some valid bleed counters.
If you can’t think of any, then maybe there is actually a conversation to be had here.
Im neither for nor against nerfing it YET, but i try to keep an open mind about everything except invisibility. :-)
All they are is a source of damage. You counter it the way you counter any source of damage. Not very complicated. Do ppl complain about dots in general and ask how to counter them? Bleeds are just dots with some special properties.
Those properties exist to serve crucial functions in both PvE and in countering tank builds. Also, If you wanna be scientific about it, you can’t regard bleeds in a vacuum. The reason bleeds builds are so oppressive is that they tend to be very high damage set ups. Not simply cus bleeds are OP.
Where is the balance? A stam build running dual wield will in most cases pair that with a two hander. In doing so, they have to sacrifice at tremendous opportunity cost block mitigation. Which in its own right is no less powerful than bleeds.
As someone who plays bleed and burst stam builds, bleeds are not imbalanced. They are just right. Nerf it and everyone will be running 2h/sword and board set ups except for possibly stamblade a.
Devil’s Advocate
Since bleed has special properties, it shouldnt be just lumped into ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Its in the same category as Oblivion damage imo. You counter others sources of damage with resistance and/or blocking. This doesnt counter bleed so it cant be defended against the same way other damage types can.
Wether or not the player sacrifices something to acheive high bleed damage does not take away from the fact that its still different from other damage types.
The question i have is, why does bleed need to go unmitigated verses other dots? Is there a magicka equivalent? If not, then why not? If so, does it have valid counter-play?
“ I dont like bleeds so how can I minimize this damage type as much as possible?”
“In the event that i run into a high bleed damage build, How can i deal with this person?”
“ I spec my build to be strong against dots, why does bleed still hit really hard?”
How would you answer these questions if it was what OP had posted.Let's take this another direction.
Please list methods of bleed mitigation for non-Templar classes outside of spamming efficient purge & running yourself out of resources.
Think I already wrote a response to this but I´ll give it another go
* Shields:
- Harness Magicka: Available for all magicka setups
- Hardened Ward (and the other morph ofc): Exclusive for magsorcs
- Healing Ward: Available for mag-setups
- Igneous Shield: Maybe not super-useful but will still mitigate the bleed
* "Semi-purge": Warden´s Betty Netch, sure it´s only 1 effect at the time but still.....
* Using other sources of mitigation:
- Minor/Major protection: Accessible if running together or as a warden.
- Minor/Major maim: Very strong debuffs against enemies. Nightblades get it from using one of the fear-morphs or using shade. Wizard´s Riposte is probably the best source of minor maim and isn´t an unusual set for mag-setups. Stambuilds can use heroic slash for minor maim. As a warden you´ve the option to use the skills from winter´s embrace skilline to proc the chilled status effect which applies minor maim (but usually as a warden you´ve so many sources of healing that you should in most cases be able to outheal the bleed). MagDK´s can use Choking Talon´s to proc minor maim.
Using Cloak:
Cloak will not remove the bleed-dot, but it will supress it for the cloak duration. Sure cloak can be a bit buggy sometimes but it´s still a viable way to counter bleeds.
So in general there´re many way of countering a bleed-build without using purge-mechanics. Now, I´ve no idea what build/setup OP is using. But if bleed-builds is the only way, or one of few ways, other players can counter your build, isn´t that somewhat balanced?
WHERE HAVE YOU PEOPLE BEEN!?!?!
CLOAK HAS NOT SUPRESSED DOTS FOR ALMOST A YEAR, STOP CLAIMING THIS!!!Member of:
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kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now that, that's out of the way...
You listed plenty of methods for MAGIC users to attempt to counter bleeds but what about stam users???
So minor maim seems the only potential counter.
Has anyone even tested this to ensure it works properly and reduces bleed ticks?
Also, bleeds EAT shields, how many times can a bleed tick?
I'm use to seeing that 4th or 5th tick being OVER 10kEdited by kaithuzar on February 21, 2018 10:20AMMember of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Now that, that's out of the way...
You listed plenty of methods for MAGIC users to attempt to counter bleeds but what about stam users???
So minor maim seems the only potential counter.
Has anyone even tested this to ensure it works properly and reduces bleed ticks?
Also, bleeds EAT shields, how many times can a bleed tick?
I'm use to seeing that 4th or 5th tick being OVER 10k
Regarding cloak: I can be wrong about it "supressing" bleeds, in that case I take that one back.
The werewolf bleed-dot, Twin-blade and blunt bleed and the 2handed bleed-passive ticks once every 2 seconds (that I´m almost 100% sure of). Only few occasions I´ve seen a single bleed-tick doing over 10k is with vMA dual-wield empowered bleed but those are rare if you ask me. Regarding if maim reduces bleed-tick damage:
I´ve tried it with the werewolf light attack bleed and it does reduce my damage. So unless other sources of bleed is bugged I don´t see why they shouldn behave differently.
Stamina in general: Your best way to counter bleed is to out-heal it.
- Vigor
- Rally/Forward momentum
- Trollking (Not to un-common on stamina builds these days if you ask me)
- Potions (Vitaliy/lingering pots are really strong)
So what ways do stamina setups of the different classes have counter bleed? Lets say we can´t use purge-mechanics but we´ve access to the general arsenal of stamina-based heals as mentioned above + minor maim from heroic slash.
Stamina Templar:
- Rune Focus: Gives us minor protection and minor vitality. Minor protection will reduce incoming bleed-damage and minor vitality will increase your healing received.
Stamina Sorc:
- Hurricane + Critsurge: On it´s own not going to carry you against a DoT-build, but on top of other sources of heal it helps.
Stamina DK:
- Only option I can think of here is to utilize Green Dragonblood + Dragonic power passives. Very expensive but it helps you boost your sources of heals (which takes us back to the general way for stambuilds to counter bleeds: Outheal it). So stamDK´s can have trouble with bleed-builds. Also trying to synergies your heals with major mending from Igneous Shield is an option even on a staminaDK
Stamina nightblade:
- Mass hysteria + Shade for minor maim: Both are used on stamblades as well, at least Mass hysteria is. But as a nightblade using vigor into cloak and then pop rally will cause all those heals to crit-heal while you´re in stealth. Last time I played nightblade I wasn´t instantly pulled out of cloak while having a bleed/dot on me.
Stamina Warden:
- Probably the easiest class to play if you want to outheal a DoT build. Cheap ultimate, easy access to major mending. Easy access to minor protection through Ice Fortress.
So I would say stamDK and somewhat stamblade is the stamsetups that have the hardest time dealing with bleed/dot builds. But try to look at it this way: Bleed is the way to counter these extremely tanky builds (and very often they´re stamina DK´s). For me it´s balanced that some setups/classes have counters.
Edited by Qbiken on February 21, 2018 10:54AM2 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bleeds are literally free. Free.
You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds
When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.
At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.
See ya in bgs folksI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bleeds are literally free. Free.
You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds
When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.
At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.
See ya in bgs folks
There´re 2 bleeds in this game that are considered "free" and those are the two you mention. I´m not considering the WW light attack bleed "free" since I´ve to transform into a WW to do so.
Bleeds are not un-mitigatable. Read your own thread. The average bleed tick from a non-werewolf player will sit at around 1,5-2k (non crit). That´s 1-2k DPS at most. If you as a Templar can´t outheal 1-2k DPS in PvP I don´t even know.......
5 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bleeds are literally free. Free.
You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds
When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.
At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.
See ya in bgs folks
There´re 2 bleeds in this game that are considered "free" and those are the two you mention. I´m not considering the WW light attack bleed "free" since I´ve to transform into a WW to do so.
Bleeds are not un-mitigatable. Read your own thread. The average bleed tick from a non-werewolf player will sit at around 1,5-2k (non crit). That´s 1-2k DPS at most. If you as a Templar can´t outheal 1-2k DPS in PvP I don´t even know.......
Besides CP (oh, those don't work in non cp) you can't mitigate them.I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bleeds are literally free. Free.
You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds
When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.
At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.
See ya in bgs folks
There´re 2 bleeds in this game that are considered "free" and those are the two you mention. I´m not considering the WW light attack bleed "free" since I´ve to transform into a WW to do so.
Bleeds are not un-mitigatable. Read your own thread. The average bleed tick from a non-werewolf player will sit at around 1,5-2k (non crit). That´s 1-2k DPS at most. If you as a Templar can´t outheal 1-2k DPS in PvP I don´t even know.......
Besides CP (oh, those don't work in non cp) you can't mitigate them.
What parts of my earlier posts did you fail to read?
P.S: I forgot to mention you can slot mistform and reduce the damage of the bleed even further.......
And if you play with a buddy, he/she can apply guard (alliance war skilline) on you and mitigate all sources of damage on you by 30% (including bleed-damage)0