Bleed

Kolache

+downvote

I'd much rather nerf a list of TTL boosting stuff than TTK boosting stuff. Is the "bleed is OP crowd" the same as the "CP in BGs is fun" crowd?

Skander

Qbiken wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Bleeds are literally free. Free.

You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds

When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.

At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.


See ya in bgs folks

There´re 2 bleeds in this game that are considered "free" and those are the two you mention. I´m not considering the WW light attack bleed "free" since I´ve to transform into a WW to do so.

Bleeds are not un-mitigatable. Read your own thread. The average bleed tick from a non-werewolf player will sit at around 1,5-2k (non crit). That´s 1-2k DPS at most. If you as a Templar can´t outheal 1-2k DPS in PvP I don´t even know.......

Besides CP (oh, those don't work in non cp) you can't mitigate them.

What parts of my earlier posts did you fail to read?

P.S: I forgot to mention you can slot mistform and reduce the damage of the bleed even further.......
And if you play with a buddy, he/she can apply guard (alliance war skilline) on you and mitigate all sources of damage on you by 30% (including bleed-damage)

Literally everything that counters bleed isn't a counter, becouse it costs magicka. Mist form is a good way to suicide.

Skander

Skander wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Bleeds are literally free. Free.

You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.
Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds

When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.

At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.


See ya in bgs folks

There´re 2 bleeds in this game that are considered "free" and those are the two you mention. I´m not considering the WW light attack bleed "free" since I´ve to transform into a WW to do so.

Bleeds are not un-mitigatable. Read your own thread. The average bleed tick from a non-werewolf player will sit at around 1,5-2k (non crit). That´s 1-2k DPS at most. If you as a Templar can´t outheal 1-2k DPS in PvP I don´t even know.......

Besides CP (oh, those don't work in non cp) you can't mitigate them.

What parts of my earlier posts did you fail to read?

P.S: I forgot to mention you can slot mistform and reduce the damage of the bleed even further.......
And if you play with a buddy, he/she can apply guard (alliance war skilline) on you and mitigate all sources of damage on you by 30% (including bleed-damage)

Literally everything that counters bleed isn't a counter, becouse it costs magicka or stamina. Mist form is a good way to suicide.

Demra

Maybe try imagining eso pvp as a rock paper scissors game? You'll do some, some will do you. There is somebody for everybody. Perhaps such thinking will relieve your stress.

Skander

Demra wrote: »

Maybe try imagining eso pvp as a rock paper scissors game? You'll do some, some will do you. There is somebody for everybody. Perhaps such thinking will relieve your stress.

Then duels have no reason to exist

Demra

Skander wrote: »

Demra wrote: »

Maybe try imagining eso pvp as a rock paper scissors game? You'll do some, some will do you. There is somebody for everybody. Perhaps such thinking will relieve your stress.

Then duels have no reason to exist

How did you conclude that? That sounds weird. There are 8 classes so you can always duel at least a few on your level and there will always will be somebody who you will have hard time against but not impossible. You sound very mad, notjust from this post but from all around. Is it the game or personal stuff?

Qbiken

Demra wrote: »

Maybe try imagining eso pvp as a rock paper scissors game? You'll do some, some will do you. There is somebody for everybody. Perhaps such thinking will relieve your stress.

Thank you!

Drakkdjinn

Skander wrote: »

Bleeds are literally free. Free.

No, they are not.

You can proc them by bashing, light attacking and using weapons abilities of DW.

8-16% of the time

Also you can proc bleed per axe you have, so. DW axes+ TH axe= 2 immitigable bleeds

8-16% of the time on attacks on each bar for each, if you have both on you that's one lucky dude -- fortunately you have a button to negate most damage from of their rotation when that happens.

When purge will be free i'll say yes. Purge counters bleed.

1v1 a single purge has the ability to remove every bleed that exists in this game if it was even possible that someone could stack them on you before you kill. That's a damn good counter for bleeds imo

At the moment is free damage that's too high and needs to be tune down.

Your templar is going to take damage in PvP, and someone with a DoT build might kill you even though you're a magplar. Get over it.

See ya in bgs folks

Cya there, I'll look for the magplar sitting in spawn spam-hate telling everyone who killed him.

Subversus

Just don't try to argue with him. He's an average player with crooked opinions. Can't expect anything from him, he used to claim 7th legion heal was straight out broken in duels (it wasn't, it shined in 1vX).

Skander

If a game wants to be competitive or serious, must be balanced yo.
Just waiting for the next patch notes, k bye

Subversus

Skander wrote: »

If a game wants to be competitive or serious, must be balanced yo.
Just waiting for the next patch notes, k bye

The game will never be balanced. Why do I have to play my light armor shieldstack nightblade PERFECTLY, literally no mistakes, while a stamina troll king tank weaving heavy attacks between every ability for sustain can make as many mistakes as he wants while having immense damage?

I apply my shields 1 single GCD too late and I get 1 hit. Stamina chars mess up sustain? It's k, heavy attack. Mess up with healing? It's k, TK gotchu.

Everyone has their own pet peeves with the game. You vs bleeds is just one of the many problems this game has. Don't act as if fixing bleeds will suddenly make the game balanced.

Skander

Subversus wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

If a game wants to be competitive or serious, must be balanced yo.
Just waiting for the next patch notes, k bye

The game will never be balanced. Why do I have to play my light armor shieldstack nightblade PERFECTLY, literally no mistakes, while a stamina troll king tank weaving heavy attacks between every ability for sustain can make as many mistakes as he wants while having immense damage?

I apply my shields 1 single GCD too late and I get 1 hit. Stamina chars mess up sustain? It's k, heavy attack. Mess up with healing? It's k, TK gotchu.

Everyone has their own pet peeves with the game. You vs bleeds is just one of the many problems this game has. Don't act as if fixing bleeds will suddenly make the game balanced.

"the game never will balanced" isn't a good excuse to not nerf bleed. It needs a tune down

Subversus

Skander wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

If a game wants to be competitive or serious, must be balanced yo.
Just waiting for the next patch notes, k bye

The game will never be balanced. Why do I have to play my light armor shieldstack nightblade PERFECTLY, literally no mistakes, while a stamina troll king tank weaving heavy attacks between every ability for sustain can make as many mistakes as he wants while having immense damage?

I apply my shields 1 single GCD too late and I get 1 hit. Stamina chars mess up sustain? It's k, heavy attack. Mess up with healing? It's k, TK gotchu.

Everyone has their own pet peeves with the game. You vs bleeds is just one of the many problems this game has. Don't act as if fixing bleeds will suddenly make the game balanced.

"the game never will balanced" isn't a good excuse to not nerf bleed. It needs a tune down

To be fair, I could care less if they get nerfed. If anything it would be a buff to me as I've exclusively played msorc/magblade since like March last year. That's however not a reason to nerf them. They aren't "overperforming", they're simply strong if you build around them. A bleed on it's own is trash. When you stack them, that's when they're strong. A bleed build will also be squishy af; there's your counter.

As I said, I've not had problems in duels with bleed builds since like homestead patch, and I'm almost positive I've dueled far more than you

Destruent

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

No -- There Will Be Blood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5d9BrLN5K4

Pro tip for magplars, your class purge removes more effects than the total number of bleeds that exist in this game, and it should be on your bar already anyway. Just sayin - you have a button for this buddy.

That cleanse costs more then any stamina ability i can think of

Wait, are you trying to say cleanse is bad or something?

Seriously is that what you try to imply?

On top of that: extended ritual: 3780 magicka (without modifiers)

trap: 3780 stamina
circe of protection: 5400 stamina
bone shield: 3780 stamina
Elude (medium armor hing) 4320 stamina

+ caltrops, vigor and some more which cost like 200 stam less...

Seems like OP doesn't even know those skills

Skander

Destruent wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

No -- There Will Be Blood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5d9BrLN5K4

Pro tip for magplars, your class purge removes more effects than the total number of bleeds that exist in this game, and it should be on your bar already anyway. Just sayin - you have a button for this buddy.

That cleanse costs more then any stamina ability i can think of

Wait, are you trying to say cleanse is bad or something?

Seriously is that what you try to imply?

On top of that: extended ritual: 3780 magicka (without modifiers)

trap: 3780 stamina
circe of protection: 5400 stamina
bone shield: 3780 stamina
Elude (medium armor hing) 4320 stamina

+ caltrops, vigor and some more which cost like 200 stam less...

Seems like OP doesn't even know those skills

All those skills aren't even class skills.

Destruent

Skander wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

No -- There Will Be Blood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5d9BrLN5K4

Pro tip for magplars, your class purge removes more effects than the total number of bleeds that exist in this game, and it should be on your bar already anyway. Just sayin - you have a button for this buddy.

That cleanse costs more then any stamina ability i can think of

Wait, are you trying to say cleanse is bad or something?

Seriously is that what you try to imply?

On top of that: extended ritual: 3780 magicka (without modifiers)

trap: 3780 stamina
circe of protection: 5400 stamina
bone shield: 3780 stamina
Elude (medium armor hing) 4320 stamina

+ caltrops, vigor and some more which cost like 200 stam less...

Seems like OP doesn't even know those skills

All those skills aren't even class skills.

Stamina uses mostly non-class-skills....so i don't get your point...

BaylorCorvette

Demra wrote: »

Maybe try imagining eso pvp as a rock paper scissors game? You'll do some, some will do you. There is somebody for everybody. Perhaps such thinking will relieve your stress.

This.

Skander

The point is: Defending bleed is moronic, becouse they are overperforming. Nerf them making nthem scale on physical resistance.

Thanks

Subversus

Skander wrote: »

The point is: Defending bleed is moronic, becouse they are overperforming. Nerf them making nthem scale on physical resistance.

Thanks

Bleeds alone are not overperforming. They are a mediocre dot at best. They are STRONG (not that I did not use "overperforming"; only a sith deals in absolutes!) if you build around them. They are not overperforming. Just because you can't beat a bleed build doesn't mean they're suddenly op.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Subversus wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The point is: Defending bleed is moronic, becouse they are overperforming. Nerf them making nthem scale on physical resistance.

Thanks

Bleeds alone are not overperforming. They are a mediocre dot at best. They are STRONG (not that I did not use "overperforming"; only a sith deals in absolutes!) if you build around them. They are not overperforming. Just because you can't beat a bleed build doesn't mean they're suddenly op.

Please explain to me how to counter and kill a skilled player using a bleed build in a duel on any class of your choosing.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Skander wrote: »

The point is: Defending bleed is moronic, becouse they are overperforming. Nerf them making nthem scale on physical resistance.

Thanks

Seems like a reasonable suggestion. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Skander

Subversus wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The point is: Defending bleed is moronic, becouse they are overperforming. Nerf them making nthem scale on physical resistance.

Thanks

Bleeds alone are not overperforming. They are a mediocre dot at best. They are STRONG (not that I did not use "overperforming"; only a sith deals in absolutes!) if you build around them. They are not overperforming. Just because you can't beat a bleed build doesn't mean they're suddenly op.

Decide which.

And no, being a proc with a free cost (you actually get stamina back if you proc it by heavy attacking which is laughable at best). It is the best dot in the game atm

Bajlk

You must be either unskilled or unskilled and died to a bleed.

Skander

Bajlk wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Please explain to me how to counter and kill a skilled player using a bleed build in a duel on any class of your choosing.

Hansaplast wrote:

Scrapes, cuts and grazes will be forgotten in a flurry of snowflakes with these cool plasters featuring their favourite characters

False quote: I didn't write that.

Qbiken

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The point is: Defending bleed is moronic, becouse they are overperforming. Nerf them making nthem scale on physical resistance.

Thanks

Seems like a reasonable suggestion. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Three things overperforming in PvP:
- Healing
- Healing Debuffs
- Damage mitigation (This thread explains it very well https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1 )

Bleed is a way to deal with these extremely tanky targets that otherwise wouldn't´t go down. Those "permablockers" or "healbots" that people go absolutely nuts over, would love to see bleed-damage get a nerf. Bleed damage isn´t strong on it´s own. A single DoT is never strong. Many DoT´s and high pressure together with healing debuffs and poisons is strong. How OP comes to the conclusion that bleeds are overperforming is a case for Patrick Jane........

OP haven´t posted any evidence or come up with ANY reasonable argument or proof that they´re overperforming. OP acts like bleed is an Oblivion damage DoT (which it isn´t). Bleed-damage can be mitigated, not by physical resistance but with other sources of mitigation (I´m not writing them all again just scroll back and you´ll see my other replies).

Heck I main as a werewolf in PvP and I seems to have easier time handling bleeds than OP. And as a Werewolf I have literally 0 sources to handle bleed-damage if running solo. OP even plays a Templar and complains about bleed......

Azurya

two nights in PvP(Cyrodil & BG)
watching and writing down what killed me
.......................
died never on a bleed

shall ask now for a nerf to all that killed me instead????
or should I take it the way it is??

I take it the way it is
and I think @Skander should do that too
cause there are no arguments to justify a nerf to bleed
perhaps he should play Hellokitty-online

Subversus

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The point is: Defending bleed is moronic, becouse they are overperforming. Nerf them making nthem scale on physical resistance.

Thanks

Bleeds alone are not overperforming. They are a mediocre dot at best. They are STRONG (not that I did not use "overperforming"; only a sith deals in absolutes!) if you build around them. They are not overperforming. Just because you can't beat a bleed build doesn't mean they're suddenly op.

Please explain to me how to counter and kill a skilled player using a bleed build in a duel on any class of your choosing.

You kill them. Bleed builds have terrible survivability and usually only survive cause of troll king. As I said, I haven't lost to a bleed build since homestead, some of them being extremely experienced players. Burst them and they're done. I don't even know why I have to explain this to you, it should be common knowledge to someone that's not bad.

If you call for a nerf I expect you should know how to counter said ability, not just blindly nerf something because you're too garbage to beat it.

kaithuzar

Qbiken wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The point is: Defending bleed is moronic, becouse they are overperforming. Nerf them making nthem scale on physical resistance.

Thanks

Seems like a reasonable suggestion. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Three things overperforming in PvP:
- Healing
- Healing Debuffs
- Damage mitigation (This thread explains it very well https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1 )

Bleed is a way to deal with these extremely tanky targets that otherwise wouldn't´t go down. Those "permablockers" or "healbots" that people go absolutely nuts over, would love to see bleed-damage get a nerf. Bleed damage isn´t strong on it´s own. A single DoT is never strong. Many DoT´s and high pressure together with healing debuffs and poisons is strong. How OP comes to the conclusion that bleeds are overperforming is a case for Patrick Jane........

OP haven´t posted any evidence or come up with ANY reasonable argument or proof that they´re overperforming. OP acts like bleed is an Oblivion damage DoT (which it isn´t). Bleed-damage can be mitigated, not by physical resistance but with other sources of mitigation (I´m not writing them all again just scroll back and you´ll see my other replies).

Heck I main as a werewolf in PvP and I seems to have easier time handling bleeds than OP. And as a Werewolf I have literally 0 sources to handle bleed-damage if running solo. OP even plays a Templar and complains about bleed......

How can you say "bleed is a way of dealing with extremely tanky targets" & also say "one of the 3 things over performing in pvp is heal debuffing"
Both are mechanisms for killing tanky targets but you praise one & complain about another???

Bleed is the way stamina deals with tanky targets? So it's ok if they melt everyone else just so long as they're dealing with tanks right?

I actually don't want bleeds to be nerfed but I do want the hypocrisy to end.

Qbiken

How can you say "bleed is a way of dealing with extremely tanky targets" & also say "one of the 3 things over performing in pvp is heal debuffing"
Both are mechanisms for killing tanky targets but you praise one & complain about another???

"Praise" is a little over-exaggerate. Only thing I´ve done in this thread is giving examples of ways to deal with bleed damage and using that as an argument why they aren´t overperforming. Reason I´m not talking about healing-debuffs is because the thread is about bleeds and not defiles.......Trying to stick to subject you know....
And more people than me can agree that defiles (and especially the befoul CP) overperform in PvP...... And you´ve more sources of countering bleed-damage than you´ve to counter defile debuffs.......

Bleed is the way stamina deals with tanky targets? So it's ok if they melt everyone else just so long as they're dealing with tanks right?
I actually don't want bleeds to be nerfed but I do want the hypocrisy to end.

What part of my earlier posts in this thread did you fail to read? Go back and re-read different sources to handle/mitigate bleed damage and try again.......

If you´re going to call someone out for hypocrisy at least know what you´re doing.......

Zbigb4life

Skander wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

They add variety to builds and gameplay, so no. Bleeds aren't OP, though yes they can be very strong. The strongest builds in the game don't use bleeds, they are based around direct damage. Stop crying for nerfs for every thing you struggle against.

Nah, bleeds are over the top atm.

I say bring in the evidence...