Bleed

Aiphaton

Well thanks ZOS
Lets enjoy the Proc-Glyph Meta and the best Bleed Meta ever...
Your decession are as always flawless.

WreckfulAbandon

Another bleed cry thread? Definitely a personal problem, but I can help troubleshoot for you:

Skander

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Another bleed cry thread? Definitely a personal problem, but I can help troubleshoot for you:

Bleed user detected

Thrain

Skander wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

Slot rapid regen if you can't handle bleeds with extended ritual alone.

I won't change my build becouse something isn't balanced

"I wont learn counterplay or even learn how to play just because something is in my death recap and that means it needs a nerf"
Sry mate but saying something isnt balanced and then you dont even try to counter it just because of your "playstile" is the acting of a little child you know?
Or maybe its just another troll thread.
Because of that thread i will enjoy my dot and bleed dk a little bit more as normal^^

raasdal

Nice necro

Anethum

actually, in murkmire patch, bleeds became op really with that torug's enchant spam on bleeds/ even on templar u have on you so much pressure, hell too much.
for shield relying classes (magsorc, magnb) with new shields mechanics bleeds are most pain in the ass now. Any mutagen can't negate this.
I see here disbalance and a gap to be fixed.
but my friends said few days ago that saw somewhere here at forum information that Zos planning to change this thing to enchants be able to proc only from direct damage, ground aoe and light/heavy attacks. In such case it will be more adequate again.

Skander

Thrain wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

Slot rapid regen if you can't handle bleeds with extended ritual alone.

I won't change my build becouse something isn't balanced

"I wont learn counterplay or even learn how to play just because something is in my death recap and that means it needs a nerf"
Sry mate but saying something isnt balanced and then you dont even try to counter it just because of your "playstile" is the acting of a little child you know?
Or maybe its just another troll thread.
Because of that thread i will enjoy my dot and bleed dk a little bit more as normal^^

The only way to counter bleeds is having more bleeds

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works

CyrusArya

We get it skander, you die a lot. Not all players struggle with bleeds like you do. The current glyph situation throws everything out of whack, but aside from that bleeds are not as overpowered as baddies like you make it seem. Could they be evaluated and possibly adjusted a bit? Sure. But for good players on just about any class, bleeds are not an instant death sentence or nearly as strong as some people exaggerate the issue to be.

Are bleeds strong? Yes. But so are a lot of things in ESO. If you can’t build to be effective and find success that’s 100% a l2p issue.

Edit: and before someone comes in here chiming in with “l2p without bleeds” I already have a long time ago. I play several classes and specs both utilizing bleeds and not, and find success on all of them in general and vs bleed specs. Forum whiners exaggerate the strength of bleeds to an obnoxious degree.

Skander

CyrusArya wrote: »

We get it skander, you die a lot. Not all players struggle with bleeds like you do. The current glyph situation throws everything out of whack, but aside from that bleeds are not as overpowered as baddies like you make it seem. Could they be evaluated and possibly adjusted a bit? Sure. But for good players on just about any class, bleeds are not an instant death sentence or nearly as strong as some people exaggerate the issue to be.

Are bleeds strong? Yes. But so are a lot of things in ESO. If you can’t build to be effective and find success that’s 100% a l2p issue.

Edit: and before someone comes in here chiming in with “l2p without bleeds” I already have a long time ago. I play several classes and specs both utilizing bleeds and not, and find success on all of them in general and vs bleed specs. Forum whiners exaggerate the strength of bleeds to an obnoxious degree.

I die a lot becouse i fight a lot.

And whoever defends bleeds probably doesn't have enough experience to talk of fair play and balance in this game

Thrain

Skander wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

We get it skander, you die a lot. Not all players struggle with bleeds like you do. The current glyph situation throws everything out of whack, but aside from that bleeds are not as overpowered as baddies like you make it seem. Could they be evaluated and possibly adjusted a bit? Sure. But for good players on just about any class, bleeds are not an instant death sentence or nearly as strong as some people exaggerate the issue to be.

Are bleeds strong? Yes. But so are a lot of things in ESO. If you can’t build to be effective and find success that’s 100% a l2p issue.

Edit: and before someone comes in here chiming in with “l2p without bleeds” I already have a long time ago. I play several classes and specs both utilizing bleeds and not, and find success on all of them in general and vs bleed specs. Forum whiners exaggerate the strength of bleeds to an obnoxious degree.

I die a lot becouse i fight a lot.

And whoever defends bleeds probably doesn't have enough experience to talk of fair play and balance in this game

I am defending bleeds cuz im still able with my magsorc in pve gear to kill bleed builds and magsorc is one of my weakest class in pvp.
So if bleeds is that op then tell me how i can win with no sustain set and you are not
Maybe you want to tell us your class and build so we can give you a little advice

Skander

Thrain wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

We get it skander, you die a lot. Not all players struggle with bleeds like you do. The current glyph situation throws everything out of whack, but aside from that bleeds are not as overpowered as baddies like you make it seem. Could they be evaluated and possibly adjusted a bit? Sure. But for good players on just about any class, bleeds are not an instant death sentence or nearly as strong as some people exaggerate the issue to be.

Are bleeds strong? Yes. But so are a lot of things in ESO. If you can’t build to be effective and find success that’s 100% a l2p issue.

Edit: and before someone comes in here chiming in with “l2p without bleeds” I already have a long time ago. I play several classes and specs both utilizing bleeds and not, and find success on all of them in general and vs bleed specs. Forum whiners exaggerate the strength of bleeds to an obnoxious degree.

I die a lot becouse i fight a lot.

And whoever defends bleeds probably doesn't have enough experience to talk of fair play and balance in this game

I am defending bleeds cuz im still able with my magsorc in pve gear to kill bleed builds and magsorc is one of my weakest class in pvp.
So if bleeds is that op then tell me how i can win with no sustain set and you are not
Maybe you want to tell us your class and build so we can give you a little advice

You have no idea of what you are saying

NupidStoob

Sure in CP PvP and 1v1 bleeds are fine, but in BGs they are nuts. They were an issue before the patch and just because enchants are stronger doesn't suddenly make bleeds balanced.

Damage that can't be mitigated and can be stacked is impossible to balance properly. We've seen that with with Sloads already and see it currently with oblivion enchants.

Theignson

Yes, especially that Gryphon in Vet CR.

Thrain

Skander wrote: »

Thrain wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

We get it skander, you die a lot. Not all players struggle with bleeds like you do. The current glyph situation throws everything out of whack, but aside from that bleeds are not as overpowered as baddies like you make it seem. Could they be evaluated and possibly adjusted a bit? Sure. But for good players on just about any class, bleeds are not an instant death sentence or nearly as strong as some people exaggerate the issue to be.

Are bleeds strong? Yes. But so are a lot of things in ESO. If you can’t build to be effective and find success that’s 100% a l2p issue.

Edit: and before someone comes in here chiming in with “l2p without bleeds” I already have a long time ago. I play several classes and specs both utilizing bleeds and not, and find success on all of them in general and vs bleed specs. Forum whiners exaggerate the strength of bleeds to an obnoxious degree.

I die a lot becouse i fight a lot.

And whoever defends bleeds probably doesn't have enough experience to talk of fair play and balance in this game

I am defending bleeds cuz im still able with my magsorc in pve gear to kill bleed builds and magsorc is one of my weakest class in pvp.
So if bleeds is that op then tell me how i can win with no sustain set and you are not
Maybe you want to tell us your class and build so we can give you a little advice

You have no idea of what you are saying

Hm i guess i know what im saying^^

raasdal

If you think that the 2H and DW Bleed Passive are too strong, then come with a suggestion. Do some math and SHOW how they are mathematically too OP.

The DW Passive as an example, is roughly 50% stronger than the Blood Craze / Rending DoT (Bleed) Skill. They do the same amount of damage. But while Rending does so over 9 seconds, the DW bleed does the same damage, over just 6 seconds. So it is a strong DoT, that is a "free" proc chance. Now, i am saying "free", because that is not technically true, since you are actually sacrificing 2.5% overall damage, by not running a Sword instead.

So. If you think that the DW Passives are OP for Axes, then how about being constructive and do some math to show how much damage YOU think it should be doing. Do some parses on a testdummy, to show how much of a percentage boost the passive is when it procs. Then compare that to the percentage lost by not using Swords. Then factor in the RNG chances. Calculate how much the proc increases overall damage as a burst, when you get the proc. Whatever you want to do.

Just stop whining about something, with "i get killed by it, therefore it is OP" as the only single argument. Bring some facts and numbers to the table ffs.

Salvas_Aren

Skander wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

We get it skander, you die a lot. Not all players struggle with bleeds like you do. The current glyph situation throws everything out of whack, but aside from that bleeds are not as overpowered as baddies like you make it seem. Could they be evaluated and possibly adjusted a bit? Sure. But for good players on just about any class, bleeds are not an instant death sentence or nearly as strong as some people exaggerate the issue to be.

Are bleeds strong? Yes. But so are a lot of things in ESO. If you can’t build to be effective and find success that’s 100% a l2p issue.

Edit: and before someone comes in here chiming in with “l2p without bleeds” I already have a long time ago. I play several classes and specs both utilizing bleeds and not, and find success on all of them in general and vs bleed specs. Forum whiners exaggerate the strength of bleeds to an obnoxious degree.

I die a lot becouse i fight a lot.

And whoever defends bleeds probably doesn't have enough experience to talk of fair play and balance in this game

Yeah, so true. Bleed builds are unfair because they exist for not being used by us. So true - not.

Feel free to complain like a little girl and post more demands, completely ignoring the ToS.

Burtan

Here is my view on bleeds from a PvP perspective. First lets look at the most common use of bleeds right now. Blood Craze can provide the following from the use of this skill alone.

• 1800 blood craze ticks
• 1500 Twin Blade and Blunt Bleed ticks
• 1k dmg poison ticks
• any other added proc(s) such as sloads for another 800 or even 1500 depending on procs.

There you have 5k dmg ticks all from casting one skill. You can add another 1500 dmg per tick by having a Battle-Axe on frontbar. This can then be followed up by a spammable or Incapacitating Strike which will empower ALL this dmg by 20% and remove all your healing thanks to befoul cp (This ultimate is also overperforming by a large margin right now in my opinion).

This pressure is applied far too easily and deals way too much dmg compared to other options. Burst dmg skills such as uppercut, surprise attack and power lash do not come close to these dmg ticks even when combined with more traditional dots such as Burning Embers or Poison Injection, which require much more effort to use.

Bleeds are also not really a counter to tanky builds since they deal just as much damage to light or medium users with smaller health pools and are arguably more dangerous against them

In summary, I think bleeds are too easy to apply and stack with other effects and are clearly not just a counter to tanky builds as people suggest.

NuarBlack

Bleeds don't exist in a vacuum as some on both sides of the argument seem to think.

1. Bleed builds still have high burst so saying that passive healing or hots counter bleeds is a non starter, that is one of the points of bleed builds, the bleeds eat up that healing or shields so the burst comes through stronger.

2. Bleeds are actually underpowered in pve or dw with back bar 2h would be a thing instead of bow being mandatory for max dps. Them not being mitigated by physical resistance doesn't matter since most pve setups reach max penetration of pve mobs.

So the reality is that a blanket nerf or buff will be the wrong way to go. Individual aspects need to be adjusted such as maybe master dw weapons and the free bleed procs from the weapon skill lines.

Or make bleeds affected by physical resistance and give maces/hammers some love since everyone seems so worried about high resist block builds as a reason to justify bleeds and maces right now are a joke. At first glance they seem like the obvious counter to such builds but pale in comparison to bleeds and therefore axes via the proc. Maybe make them ignore a higher percentage of armor and drain more stamina of perma blockers and bleeds wouldn't need to bypass physical resistance and could maybe even see a buff pve wise.

Burtan

NuarBlack wrote: »

Bleeds don't exist in a vacuum as some on both sides of the argument seem to think.

1. Bleed builds still have high burst so saying that passive healing or hots counter bleeds is a non starter, that is one of the points of bleed builds, the bleeds eat up that healing or shields so the burst comes through stronger.

2. Bleeds are actually underpowered in pve or dw with back bar 2h would be a thing instead of bow being mandatory for max dps. Them not being mitigated by physical resistance doesn't matter since most pve setups reach max penetration of pve mobs.

So the reality is that a blanket nerf or buff will be the wrong way to go. Individual aspects need to be adjusted such as maybe master dw weapons and the free bleed procs from the weapon skill lines.

Or make bleeds affected by physical resistance and give maces/hammers some love since everyone seems so worried about high resist block builds as a reason to justify bleeds and maces right now are a joke. At first glance they seem like the obvious counter to such builds but pale in comparison to bleeds and therefore axes via the proc. Maybe make them ignore a higher percentage of armor and drain more stamina of perma blockers and bleeds wouldn't need to bypass physical resistance and could maybe even see a buff pve wise.

Blood Craze itself is fine in my opinion, however I think Twin Blade and Blunt Bleeds should receive a small dmg decrease due to the fact that it easily outperforms all other dots in PvP right now. it is also far too easy to stack these bleeds with other effects and specifically with Incapacitating Strike (Empower all ticks by 20% and remove majority of victims healing) which is a death sentence if the user is experienced in any way. Incap + Bleeds = free kill with low effort.

I think that Twin Blade and Blunt bleeds should not be able to stack with Heavy Weapons Bleed and should also not be empowered by incap unless this ultimate gets the adjustment it so severely needs.

Waffennacht

Burtan wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Bleeds don't exist in a vacuum as some on both sides of the argument seem to think.

1. Bleed builds still have high burst so saying that passive healing or hots counter bleeds is a non starter, that is one of the points of bleed builds, the bleeds eat up that healing or shields so the burst comes through stronger.

2. Bleeds are actually underpowered in pve or dw with back bar 2h would be a thing instead of bow being mandatory for max dps. Them not being mitigated by physical resistance doesn't matter since most pve setups reach max penetration of pve mobs.

So the reality is that a blanket nerf or buff will be the wrong way to go. Individual aspects need to be adjusted such as maybe master dw weapons and the free bleed procs from the weapon skill lines.

Or make bleeds affected by physical resistance and give maces/hammers some love since everyone seems so worried about high resist block builds as a reason to justify bleeds and maces right now are a joke. At first glance they seem like the obvious counter to such builds but pale in comparison to bleeds and therefore axes via the proc. Maybe make them ignore a higher percentage of armor and drain more stamina of perma blockers and bleeds wouldn't need to bypass physical resistance and could maybe even see a buff pve wise.

Blood Craze itself is fine in my opinion, however I think Twin Blade and Blunt Bleeds should receive a small dmg decrease due to the fact that it easily outperforms all other dots in PvP right now. it is also far too easy to stack these bleeds with other effects and specifically with Incapacitating Strike (Empower all ticks by 20% and remove majority of victims healing) which is a death sentence if the user is experienced in any way. Incap + Bleeds = free kill with low effort.

I think that Twin Blade and Blunt bleeds should not be able to stack with Heavy Weapons Bleed and should also not be empowered by incap unless this ultimate gets the adjustment it so severely needs.

Though not really an argument I would actually try and prove (what I am about to write) but how about nerfing NB rather than weapon skill lines? Your post makes it sound as if DW is only over performing with NBs and their sickly good abilities and passives.

wheem_ESO

Nah, bleeds are straight up overpowered, it's not just Nightblades. The damage is way too high for how good they are; cheap cost + snare on Rending Slashes, no resource cost for the procs, stacks with everything (including copies of itself from other players) - it's just too much, and it's one part of why Stam is flat out better than Mag for offensive roles.

pieratsos

Thrain wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

We get it skander, you die a lot. Not all players struggle with bleeds like you do. The current glyph situation throws everything out of whack, but aside from that bleeds are not as overpowered as baddies like you make it seem. Could they be evaluated and possibly adjusted a bit? Sure. But for good players on just about any class, bleeds are not an instant death sentence or nearly as strong as some people exaggerate the issue to be.

Are bleeds strong? Yes. But so are a lot of things in ESO. If you can’t build to be effective and find success that’s 100% a l2p issue.

Edit: and before someone comes in here chiming in with “l2p without bleeds” I already have a long time ago. I play several classes and specs both utilizing bleeds and not, and find success on all of them in general and vs bleed specs. Forum whiners exaggerate the strength of bleeds to an obnoxious degree.

I die a lot becouse i fight a lot.

And whoever defends bleeds probably doesn't have enough experience to talk of fair play and balance in this game

I am defending bleeds cuz im still able with my magsorc in pve gear to kill bleed builds and magsorc is one of my weakest class in pvp.
So if bleeds is that op then tell me how i can win with no sustain set and you are not
Maybe you want to tell us your class and build so we can give you a little advice

Because you 've set ur bar of what "win" means very low. Too low. Way too low.

Burtan

Waffennacht wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Bleeds don't exist in a vacuum as some on both sides of the argument seem to think.

1. Bleed builds still have high burst so saying that passive healing or hots counter bleeds is a non starter, that is one of the points of bleed builds, the bleeds eat up that healing or shields so the burst comes through stronger.

2. Bleeds are actually underpowered in pve or dw with back bar 2h would be a thing instead of bow being mandatory for max dps. Them not being mitigated by physical resistance doesn't matter since most pve setups reach max penetration of pve mobs.

So the reality is that a blanket nerf or buff will be the wrong way to go. Individual aspects need to be adjusted such as maybe master dw weapons and the free bleed procs from the weapon skill lines.

Or make bleeds affected by physical resistance and give maces/hammers some love since everyone seems so worried about high resist block builds as a reason to justify bleeds and maces right now are a joke. At first glance they seem like the obvious counter to such builds but pale in comparison to bleeds and therefore axes via the proc. Maybe make them ignore a higher percentage of armor and drain more stamina of perma blockers and bleeds wouldn't need to bypass physical resistance and could maybe even see a buff pve wise.

Blood Craze itself is fine in my opinion, however I think Twin Blade and Blunt Bleeds should receive a small dmg decrease due to the fact that it easily outperforms all other dots in PvP right now. it is also far too easy to stack these bleeds with other effects and specifically with Incapacitating Strike (Empower all ticks by 20% and remove majority of victims healing) which is a death sentence if the user is experienced in any way. Incap + Bleeds = free kill with low effort.

I think that Twin Blade and Blunt bleeds should not be able to stack with Heavy Weapons Bleed and should also not be empowered by incap unless this ultimate gets the adjustment it so severely needs.

Though not really an argument I would actually try and prove (what I am about to write) but how about nerfing NB rather than weapon skill lines? Your post makes it sound as if DW is only over performing with NBs and their sickly good abilities and passives.

I think bleeds are overperforming in general for the reasons I stated but even more so when combined with Incapacitating Strike which is very overpowered by itself. I felt this needed to be brought up because it is by far the most devastating use of bleeds in PvP right now besides Torug/Enchant cheese which is already being adjusted.

usmguy1234

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Honestly only one thing needs to be changed:

Undead are immune to bleeding damage

This is TES universe, and Undead have NEVER in the lore history of the game been vulnerable to bleeding damage. Undead literally have no blood to bleed. So if your vampire you should be immune to bleeding just like Argonians are immunue to the Diseased and Poisoned Status effect, Dark Elves are immune to the Burning Status effect, and Bosmer are immune to the Diseased and Poisoned Status effect.

If Vampires/Undead are going to be weak to fire and Dawnbreaker(which by lore is accurate) then they most certainly should be immune to bleeding.

Very nice. Very nice indeed. Zenimax take notes.

usmguy1234

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Another bleed cry thread? Definitely a personal problem, but I can help troubleshoot for you:

Definite bleed user detected. Just like bleeds, you expect memes to do all the work for you without first learning the mechanics behind the system. If there's anything that annoys me more than someone using a meme out of context, it's someone who tries to justify cheese in this game.

WreckfulAbandon

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Definite bleed user detected. Just like bleeds, you expect memes to do all the work for you without first learning the mechanics behind the system. If there's anything that annoys me more than someone using a meme out of context, it's someone who tries to justify cheese in this game.

Enough things have been nerfed into oblivion already, it's seriously curbing the enthusiasm of myself and plenty of others for this game. The few things I care enough about anymore to comment on can be summed up in a meme, and rarely deserve more thought out responses than that.

The arguments against bleeds posited by people in this thread are simply not compelling. It's a 16% chance at best for each passive bleed. All bleeds tick every 2 seconds, not every 1 second. Proc sets proccing off bleeds mean bleeds are OP? Glyphs hitting off DoTs is a bleed issue? Double DoT poisons are a bleed issue? Incap boosting things by 20% is a bleed issue? There is no "free kill with no effort" against an opponent who is properly built and plays well. Purge and healing are both a thing. And while I recognize that bleeds coupled with befoul+defile is very strong, the amount of healing possible in this game make them necessary counters. It's not like an instagib from stealth, you can see what they are doing and have time to react to what's going on unlike LA+incap combos. And if you have no answer to bleeds, it's a L2Build or L2Play issue. Plenty of other things are viable and all I hear here are ppl whining to make yet another mechanic/playstyle useless.

Maces should be buffed a bit but no reason to nerf axes.

Feel free to impart your wisdom on game mechanics and how to meme correctly.

Elong

Bleeds by themselves are inherently weak, but when built around can become very strong.

Much like an Overload Sorc building around light attacks. Or a Stamplar stacking weapon damage. Or a DK Tank stacking health regen.

That's the whole point of min maxing. Bleeds can be countered, and will not be as strong next incremental patch when enchants are nerfed.

usmguy1234

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Definite bleed user detected. Just like bleeds, you expect memes to do all the work for you without first learning the mechanics behind the system. If there's anything that annoys me more than someone using a meme out of context, it's someone who tries to justify cheese in this game.

Enough things have been nerfed into oblivion already, it's seriously curbing the enthusiasm of myself and plenty of others for this game. The few things I care enough about anymore to comment on can be summed up in a meme, and rarely deserve more thought out responses than that.

The arguments against bleeds posited by people in this thread are simply not compelling. It's a 16% chance at best for each passive bleed. All bleeds tick every 2 seconds, not every 1 second. Proc sets proccing off bleeds mean bleeds are OP? Glyphs hitting off DoTs is a bleed issue? Double DoT poisons are a bleed issue? Incap boosting things by 20% is a bleed issue? There is no "free kill with no effort" against an opponent who is properly built and plays well. Purge and healing are both a thing. And while I recognize that bleeds coupled with befoul+defile is very strong, the amount of healing possible in this game make them necessary counters. It's not like an instagib from stealth, you can see what they are doing and have time to react to what's going on unlike LA+incap combos. And if you have no answer to bleeds, it's a L2Build or L2Play issue. Plenty of other things are viable and all I hear here are ppl whining to make yet another mechanic/playstyle useless.

Maces should be buffed a bit but no reason to nerf axes.

Feel free to impart your wisdom on game mechanics and how to meme correctly.

The problem that I see is that you are saying that the arguments made by other people in this thread are not compelling while staunchly asserting that yours is. I've been down that road with the shield issue and the one thing I learned from that is to not clutch on a certain playstyle because it could very well be ripped from your cold, dead fingers. Now, I play a setup that's so underwhelming that it even surprises me when I kill someone. Yeah, it's aggravating to be mowed down by a fotm player but his build could become more irrelevant than mine in the next pts cycle.

WreckfulAbandon

usmguy1234 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Definite bleed user detected. Just like bleeds, you expect memes to do all the work for you without first learning the mechanics behind the system. If there's anything that annoys me more than someone using a meme out of context, it's someone who tries to justify cheese in this game.

Enough things have been nerfed into oblivion already, it's seriously curbing the enthusiasm of myself and plenty of others for this game. The few things I care enough about anymore to comment on can be summed up in a meme, and rarely deserve more thought out responses than that.

The arguments against bleeds posited by people in this thread are simply not compelling. It's a 16% chance at best for each passive bleed. All bleeds tick every 2 seconds, not every 1 second. Proc sets proccing off bleeds mean bleeds are OP? Glyphs hitting off DoTs is a bleed issue? Double DoT poisons are a bleed issue? Incap boosting things by 20% is a bleed issue? There is no "free kill with no effort" against an opponent who is properly built and plays well. Purge and healing are both a thing. And while I recognize that bleeds coupled with befoul+defile is very strong, the amount of healing possible in this game make them necessary counters. It's not like an instagib from stealth, you can see what they are doing and have time to react to what's going on unlike LA+incap combos. And if you have no answer to bleeds, it's a L2Build or L2Play issue. Plenty of other things are viable and all I hear here are ppl whining to make yet another mechanic/playstyle useless.

Maces should be buffed a bit but no reason to nerf axes.

Feel free to impart your wisdom on game mechanics and how to meme correctly.

The problem that I see is that you are saying that the arguments made by other people in this thread are not compelling while staunchly asserting that yours is. I've been down that road with the shield issue and the one thing I learned from that is to not clutch on a certain playstyle because it could very well be ripped from your cold, dead fingers. Now, I play a setup that's so underwhelming that it even surprises me when I kill someone. Yeah, it's aggravating to be mowed down by a fotm player but his build could become more irrelevant than mine in the next pts cycle.

So to sum: "My build got massively screwed by whiners, so it's only fair if it happens to others too." Pretty much sums up the forums at this point. My magplar DoT build can put out just as much pressure as a bleed build. He smokes bleed builds 1v1. If you can't deal with bleeds then change your build or L2P. Some of the posts here are just downright stupid.The OP is on track to become a meme at this point.

Burtan

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Definite bleed user detected. Just like bleeds, you expect memes to do all the work for you without first learning the mechanics behind the system. If there's anything that annoys me more than someone using a meme out of context, it's someone who tries to justify cheese in this game.

Enough things have been nerfed into oblivion already, it's seriously curbing the enthusiasm of myself and plenty of others for this game. The few things I care enough about anymore to comment on can be summed up in a meme, and rarely deserve more thought out responses than that.

The arguments against bleeds posited by people in this thread are simply not compelling. It's a 16% chance at best for each passive bleed. All bleeds tick every 2 seconds, not every 1 second. Proc sets proccing off bleeds mean bleeds are OP? Glyphs hitting off DoTs is a bleed issue? Double DoT poisons are a bleed issue? Incap boosting things by 20% is a bleed issue? There is no "free kill with no effort" against an opponent who is properly built and plays well. Purge and healing are both a thing. And while I recognize that bleeds coupled with befoul+defile is very strong, the amount of healing possible in this game make them necessary counters. It's not like an instagib from stealth, you can see what they are doing and have time to react to what's going on unlike LA+incap combos. And if you have no answer to bleeds, it's a L2Build or L2Play issue. Plenty of other things are viable and all I hear here are ppl whining to make yet another mechanic/playstyle useless.

Maces should be buffed a bit but no reason to nerf axes.

Feel free to impart your wisdom on game mechanics and how to meme correctly.

The problem that I see is that you are saying that the arguments made by other people in this thread are not compelling while staunchly asserting that yours is. I've been down that road with the shield issue and the one thing I learned from that is to not clutch on a certain playstyle because it could very well be ripped from your cold, dead fingers. Now, I play a setup that's so underwhelming that it even surprises me when I kill someone. Yeah, it's aggravating to be mowed down by a fotm player but his build could become more irrelevant than mine in the next pts cycle.

So to sum: "My build got massively screwed by whiners, so it's only fair if it happens to others too." Pretty much sums up the forums at this point. My magplar DoT build can put out just as much pressure as a bleed build. He smokes bleed builds 1v1. If you can't deal with bleeds then change your build or L2P. Some of the posts here are just downright stupid.The OP is on track to become a meme at this point.

Your magplar isn't achieving that by using 1 skill for starters. Bleeds also may tick every 2 seconds but this is also partly what makes them so powerful. You can line up burst with these ticks to deal more dmg than most spammable abilities can when combined with other dots like poison arrow or embers. Bleeds are the main reason why the stupid Spin2Win playstyle has become so common.

Bleeds are acting as a sort of burst dmg without actually taking the time to line up burst combos. Just slap on blood craze and a battle-axe for easy burst damage with very little effort or timing. Bleeds have essentially become a free spammable every 2 seconds for free. There is little to no reason at all to run a greatsword or maul now for this exact reason.

My Stamsorc can out-dot a MagDK (a class built around dots) using 1 skill and axes. Fair? I think not.