Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that mag Dks think it's fine to have an undodgeable super strong dot, undodgeable stunn, undodgeable powerlash, undodgeable ultimate, undodgeable gapcloser and undodgeable proc set.

PvE is different tho, I agree on the concerns from mag Dks there. The PvP complaints are hilarious tho.

Last i checked, all dots are undodgable because they are on the actual person, last i checked, nearly all the classes have access to an undodgable stun, last i checked every aoe ultimate in the game is undodgable however leap has the problem of someone moving out of the range while the DK is mid flight which leads to no damage registering which isn't something that all the other aoe ultimates have, last i checked a class doesn't have it's own proc set, i believe you are referring to skoria which can be used by ANYONE.

All dots are undodgeable? The only other undodgeable dot that comes to my mind is the Warden dot (and Soul Trap which is garbage).

the_Beard wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that mag Dks think it's fine to have an undodgeable super strong dot, undodgeable stunn, undodgeable powerlash, undodgeable ultimate, undodgeable gapcloser and undodgeable proc set.

PvE is different tho, I agree on the concerns from mag Dks there. The PvP complaints are hilarious tho.

Last I checked, people rarely die from a magDK's dots. What game are you playing???

They do, they just don't see it in the recap. People who think that pressure is worth nothing in PvP live in the past.

the_Beard wrote: »

For the people saying that magDK excel at 1v1 duels, and deserve the cooldown to whip and it being dodgeable, you are absolutely out of your mind if you think that should be the basis for balance in this game. The dueling community makes up what percentage of this game? Go watch the legend tournaments. There's not all that many people in there compared to weekly leaderboards for pve trials. Pull your head out of the sand and realize that there are other parts of the game than just 1v1 fights.

Edit: nothing against the dueling community, but some of these comments are absurd.

If duels don't matter, what the *** are you complaining about then? That the kind of builds which are free ap for a mag Dk will survive 10 seconds longer now that Powerlash can be dodged? You also ignore the fact that mag Dk is also very strong in Battlegrounds and in smallscale groups it's not bad either. You can't have everything, no class is top tier in everything.

so much of this.

MagDK is the most ridicilous thing to face as a medium armor build.

Even magicka wardens I can deal with, but not the bloody magDks with their 10k undodgeable power lash that also heal them to full.

now pve mDks need help, no lies about that. but pvp mDk... that is a different case.

Even magicka wardens I can deal with, but not the bloody magDks with their 10k undodgeable power lash that also heal them to full.

Even magicka wardens I can deal with, but not the bloody magDks with their 10k undodgeable power lash that also heal them to full.

Even magicka wardens I can deal with, but not the bloody magDks with their 10k undodgeable power lash that also heal them to full.

Hmm...

BohnT wrote: »

Even more NB Buffs? No love for DK and Zaan is still completely overperfoming in pvp.

It's not much of a buff to NB's

Why is power lash being nerfed when power lash wasn't what got buffed to begin with?

Offbalance needed to be nerfed ON PLAYERS. C'mon ZOS.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that mag Dks think it's fine to have an undodgeable super strong dot, undodgeable stunn, undodgeable powerlash, undodgeable ultimate, undodgeable gapcloser and undodgeable proc set.

PvE is different tho, I agree on the concerns from mag Dks there. The PvP complaints are hilarious tho.

Last i checked, all dots are undodgable because they are on the actual person, last i checked, nearly all the classes have access to an undodgable stun, last i checked every aoe ultimate in the game is undodgable however leap has the problem of someone moving out of the range while the DK is mid flight which leads to no damage registering which isn't something that all the other aoe ultimates have, last i checked a class doesn't have it's own proc set, i believe you are referring to skoria which can be used by ANYONE.

All dots are undodgeable? The only other undodgeable dot that comes to my mind is the Warden dot (and Soul Trap which is garbage).

the_Beard wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I can't believe that mag Dks think it's fine to have an undodgeable super strong dot, undodgeable stunn, undodgeable powerlash, undodgeable ultimate, undodgeable gapcloser and undodgeable proc set.

PvE is different tho, I agree on the concerns from mag Dks there. The PvP complaints are hilarious tho.

Last I checked, people rarely die from a magDK's dots. What game are you playing???

They do, they just don't see it in the recap. People who think that pressure is worth nothing in PvP live in the past.

the_Beard wrote: »

For the people saying that magDK excel at 1v1 duels, and deserve the cooldown to whip and it being dodgeable, you are absolutely out of your mind if you think that should be the basis for balance in this game. The dueling community makes up what percentage of this game? Go watch the legend tournaments. There's not all that many people in there compared to weekly leaderboards for pve trials. Pull your head out of the sand and realize that there are other parts of the game than just 1v1 fights.

Edit: nothing against the dueling community, but some of these comments are absurd.

If duels don't matter, what the *** are you complaining about then? That the kind of builds which are free ap for a mag Dk will survive 10 seconds longer now that Powerlash can be dodged? You also ignore the fact that mag Dk is also very strong in Battlegrounds and in smallscale groups it's not bad either. You can't have everything, no class is top tier in everything.

so much of this.

MagDK is the most ridicilous thing to face as a medium armor build.

Even magicka wardens I can deal with, but not the bloody magDks with their 10k undodgeable power lash that also heal them to full.

now pve mDks need help, no lies about that. but pvp mDk... that is a different case.

As someone that main'd a med Argonian stam DK in pvp all I can say is you might wanna try Cooking Mama, that sounds like your speed if they were that much trouble.

Im pretty sure my magDk will destroy your argonian sDk any day and any time. I can even bet my account on it.
I can easily get ridicilous crits on my power lash, I do have proof to my claims. and what about you?

Where is your super strong argonian medium armor stamDk that magically manages to beat top dog magDks?
I'm pretty sure you would get a lot of respect coming up with a medium armor open world build and beating a magDk.

So what stops you then?
Why aren't you beating *** up in duel tournaments huh?

could it be... could it be that you have no idea?

Wanted to revive my magDK for pve this patch, hoping the sustain might be bearable, but this looks really bad. Having that cooldown lets you have 1 or 2 whips when off balance procs every ~20 seconds? Dont know how long the duration for a single off balance proc is, but this is definetely devastating pve wise.

And please do not forget that magwarden is still worse than other classes in pve dps.

Soul Assault changes are the best thing that I could have asked for.

It was just too OP. Not being able to bash it (stupid as change to make it not bashable), cc immune (that is just crazy), along with the 70% snare. This skill made magicka classes easy mode.

Now with the snare gone will add some counter play to this most hated skill. Ideally I would have preferred it to be bashable and have the snare stay.

Oh and finally THE MOST OVER USED XV1 SKILL

Shyly raises a paw....

I still like magic dragon knights, even on pts my heavy attacks alone clear twenty four thousand, they can hit thirty with a group buff, never liked whip, didn’t use it realy as I don’t like the animation and the sound is realy poor

KhajiitHasSkooma wrote: »

Nerfing Flame Lash is such a lazy way of dealing with the terrible, terrible proposed off balance system. The new system doesn't add anything "strategic" to combat. It just slows DPS. No PVE players is going to have time to deal with all the stuns, roots, immobilization mechanics the new dungeons throw at them and think, "oh the boss is off balance, I should heavy attack now."

So funny hearing Wrobel pontificate on how strategic combat was going to be with people noticing the boss was off balance and taking the opportunity to heavy just then to get double resource back. It will be so strategic.

1) Nobody will see it. There are a million particle effects going on and, given the history of tells for when you should proc an ability (like a slight glow on the hands for crystal frags) nobody will see it.

2) Half the players do only full heavies with the auto que cancel already because it is just easier to full heavy / DOT than to try a weave with the huge timing variations between different abilities, light attacks, and heavy attacks. This all runs the risk of a dreaded medium attack.

3) Supposing you see the boss off balance animation it will still often be the case that you have mechanics that prevent you from a full heavy slow attack at that time.

4) It will not be worth changing up where you are in a rotation and loosing DPS with DOTS going down to get the double return.

5) Cheat engine takes care of any resource problems for half the players out there anyway.

Hearing Wrobel talk about all this and how dynamic (in our full heavy attack world nothing is dynamic) it is going to make things feel I felt like I was hearing a 12 year old's book report on just how combat felt in WWII. It was just so disconnected.

My opinion is that whole off balance thing has been a Wrobel mess from day 1. You took this minor mechanic that really only mattered for DK lashes and interfaced it with a CP star (an inconvenient one for a lot of builds I might add) as well as another DPS buff. It became a major factor in group DPS leading to a lot of finagling of builds to maximize up-time. Up-time differences lead to lots more DPS divergence between groups. Groups got good enough at up-time that it contributed to run away DPS numbers that were supposed to go down with that update but went up instead. mDK's got totally banned from group for their effect on off balance time (you were totally warned about this on PTS.) Now you nerf the thing with a cooldown that first worked like other cooldowns (ie. it doesn't kick in unless the ability should trigger it ends.) So you fix that cooldown (you have never fixed the CC cooldown so that it always works despite that causing hell in PVP and vMA for years but this gets fixed right quick mostly because it makes your change look stupid even though 99% of players will never notice.) Now you have dreams of making the off balance thing be about opportunistic resource return because of how stupid it made you look when it was about damage.

Man, you have got to get out of your head imagining ridiculous complex new combat tactics and start playing some. Go to battlegrounds first and get rick rolled by any of the huge number of 4 man full on CE groups whose health bars won't move when you hit them while the mow you. That might start your priorities in line the right direction (that direction of thinking might solve your PVE dps issue as well and bring more players into your empty PVP land). The time that has been spent on this whole off balance mess is ridiculous.

Faint_One wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

RIP Magicka DKs in PvE for now. Honestly, at some point i gotta wonder whether you guys dont play your game. Magicka DK damage is tied to off-balance and how do you expect them to sustain? how do you want them to be included in any group?

16% off-balance at maximum. Power lash cooldown is ridiculous as well for PvE.

I can already predict that off-balance will be erased from raids. Guaranteed.

They might meant you should use molten whip for PVE，Zero cost and bonus dmg even healing is more op.If they can buff molten A little and solve sustain issue ：/

Molten whip is literally 800 magicka per second used in the correct rotation. No amount of small tweaking that zos usually do for these skills will make it viable. MagDK PvE has been absolutely terrible since Morrowind along with magplar.

Didgerion wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Nightblade

• Assassination
  • Grim Focus: The stacks you build toward the bow proc for this ability and its morphs will now remain if you recast the ability early, or if the ability expires. The partial stack will be removed if you exit combat.

No proc expiration when fully charged?

Here you go - a new gang one shot build incoming - Blob's already working on it.

And I guess sorcs will cry to preserve their frag proc too now.

So Wrobel...... Let me guess, you tried to make the grim focus thing a little higher dps for NB's but not too much higher so you let it proc a few times but didn't let it proc for an extra attack. The combination of all the full heavies now needed (PVE) and the difficulty nb's in PVP already had getting a proc up, lead to less, not more, players using it (you were amply warned about this on PTS). Now you look silly because you were trying to make it better and you had more players drop using it than increase use (your beloved internal metrics which you actually listen to told you this).
1) Still would have been better to have a proc also be a recast instead of the multi-proc per cast thing. This is what literally everybody suggested.
2) I will see a little improvement in it for my PVE with this change and still won't slot it for PVP because it just takes too much time to charge and is therefore not worth the slot.

Nifty2g wrote: »

So for PvE doesn't off balance last 4 seconds and power lash cooldown is 3 seconds, so now dragonknights get to have 2 free casts every 15-20 seconds or you can choose if you want to heavy attack

oh boi i'm gonna go grind one up right now, it's way too powerful.

Amazing what such a terrible patch Morrowind turned out to be and ruined the game in many aspects that has taken up to almost a year now to correct, and one class is still unplayable in PvE so it's not even fixed yet. It's going to take over a damn year.

Shut your mouth on that morrowind patch..... It totally brought down dps as intended, lead to a more even balance of classes and stam v. mag in trials, decreased dps divergence, multiplied the number of people doing endgame content, and was universally loved and admired by all casual players while they died to overland mobs while desperately pounding their biggest heal key without the resources to cast it.

Well, morrowind did lower AOE caps in PVP and make fire ring a useful ranged AOE to hit ball zergs with. The rest was tosh though. I can't believe we are still wasting time trying to save this whole off balance boondoggle.

Alcast wrote: »

People just do not learn, do they. First test the things and then comment on the changes. Not the other way around (QQ first and then test).
ZOS also repeatedly said that they will take a look at class balance NEXT patch, not this one.

Thats what i usually say as well, but I've put a lot of testing into Magicka DK on the PTS because it is one of my favourite toons, and I've already tested what a low off-balance uptime means for them by just using a fire blockade and its unbearable. Power lash+off-balance was the only thing that made them viable damagewise and enabled them to sustain at all.

First it sounded promising when they said that they want to make off-balance more useful for everyone, but this does exactly the opposite.

Joy_Division wrote: »

It would be great if damage wasn't the only thing classes brought to the table, but that seems to be the way of things.

Remember when NB's had meaningful off-heals with refreshing path and funnel health.
Remember when the mitigation ultimates veil, nova, and corrosive were a thing.
Remember when there were actually DPS's in trials that could run resto back bars because virtually all your DPS wasn't DOT's.
Remember when all the mobs in trials wern't always CC immune and people could chain adds in for better AOE burns. Remember when deaths were a bigger deal than DPS because you had a limited number of them, your score was greatly effected by them, and most of the mechanics weren't being broken with DPS.
Remember when the entire leaderboard for the trial of the week would fill because that many guilds were running it despite a subscription and lower game population.
Remember when the differences between classes did not feel like they added up roughly to a few different names on DOT's.
Remember when weapon abilities filled in for a few weaknesses in class abilities instead of class abilities adding a few nuances to a basically weapon dominated world.
Remember a world with no cheat engine where when somebody owned you in PVP your first thought was "man, I got to figure out what he is doing" instead of "man, I know what he is running."
Remember ultimates as a meaningful part of your PVE character build and timing them a meaningful part of trials not just a DPS skill you hit every once in a long while.

Damn, you really set me thinking about some of the epic fights back in the day. There really used to be some fun endgame stuff despite how little endgame stuff we really had to play.