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Any news about fix to shield stacking sorcs?
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Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its been my observation that most nerf-sorc threads come from console players.
They just eat a lot more frags, I guess. /cough miats /cough. And so still see sorcs as having a cannon, and therefore argue that they should be made of glass.
I feel sorry for them, because sorc is a shadow of what it once was. ZOS ruined everything with sorc when they ruined one of its most central abilities.
Anyone still calling for nerfs to this class, should instead look to themselves and assess their build/playstyle.5 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How to counter magsorcs = Become a werewolf and stack a lot of weapon damage.
Claw of Anguish --> Light attack x2 (proc kena) ----> Hircine´s Rage ----> Fear ----> Stun ---> Light attack until dead.
Jump on the sorc with your pounce/leap ability if the sorc tries to get away. Enjoy even more rage if you decide to go with shieldbreaker on your werewolf. Be warned tho that it might get too salty sometimes xD
0 -
Killset✭✭✭✭I'm not posting here because I'm losing to sorcs... I'm doing it because even I'm killing them, they are unbalanced, as permablockersChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics
Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...
Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??
Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...
*Facepalm...
Isn't it ironic that someone who doesn't even know that armor mitigation isn't applied to shields wants to lecture others...And to remember... Shields don't take more damage when target have it's armour broken, don't take more damage from crits... It's more defensive power than needed... And double or triple it... Now it's ridiculous...
I understand that sorcs depend on shields to survive... But the problem is the stacking of it and the low damage it receives overall...
What is wrong in what I said?
Sorcs doesn't have downsides when debuffed, shields don't take more or less damage based on resistances, that's the problems, because even using light armour, they make crit builds and penetration builds worthless, even when they have the most penetration against all non shielded oponents, by having light armour passives and staff and set passives...
And let us think a little more...
So... To have more defenses, sustain and damage what they need?
ONLY MAX MAGICA
I don't see permablockers having sustain by stacking max health, or more damage...
Neither mag NBS or Stam/mag dks...
Keep being cheese baby...
I know you like it, like wrobel...
Save your stupid attempts to insult and brighten up.
Shields don't take resistance into account. You don't have to debuff them. This is not a disadvantage for you. Get that into your head.
You save CP, set boni, munuds stunes on penetration or skill slots, resources and GCDs on applying debuffs. Simply because it is not necessary.
You can twist and turn how you like it. But instead of "crit and pen" you simply can invest all in max resources and raw spell/wpn dmg and still be effective against shields. Hell, there are even sets and enchants that ignore shields entirely.
But god forbid crit + pen isn't best at every giving opponent.
And please anlighten me how max magicka impacts magicka regeneration.
Permablocking functions on whole different mechanics. Through a mix of HA and class passives, broken ways to calculate block costs and Ultimates.
In this game everything isn't the same. Yet.
Keep being ignorant baby...
I know you like it, like every crybaby.
So what you say is that everybody should change theirs builds to be in equal to sorcs?
Alright...
You are telling me that even penetration, crits and helping debuffs, components of offensive part of every build should be ignored? And stacked to high values, more than any heal...
At the same time sorcs can keep high crit and high pen... Alright, alright... I give up...
I'm crying okay... I'm a cry baby...
Let me Save my time and stupid attempts to insult to brighten and look for hypocrites....
I didn't see you kill many shield stacking sorcs. I did see you struggle as DKs don't really have high spamable burst like sorc's/nbs. But what sorcs/nbs don't have is the ability to block or Regen resorces outside of Regen.
In the end, it comes down to CC attempts and draining a sorcs stamina. In your videos, I saw the CC early in nearly every fight. Combined with no points in shattering blows means your real opener attacks are predictable, easily negated by a mobile Sorc whose playing on your lack of range to their advantage.
Your mobilty is correct. Mist form into talons/take flight. But dual snb DK, in my opinion is outdated in this mobilty meta without a way to use snare/cost poisons from range.
New players or not, if a Sorc is beating you in that build, it's because they outplayed you. Mobility>dmg.
You can’t run Sorc (or any magic class) out of stamina anymore. I play both magic and stamina and I never run out of stam anymore on my magic toons with CP the way it is. This hasn’t been a problem for magic users in like forever.0 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SydneyGrey wrote: »They're forced to wear light armor if they want to do any sort of decent DPS, so they HAVE to be able to have shields. If you get rid of their ability to use shields, then ZOS needs to give them the ability to use medium or heavy armor effectively. Instead, ZOS just nerfed heavy armor some more.
The big problem is the extreme mobility of streak in conjunction with shield stacking... I can only assume you play a sorc to be ok with it...
It's possible to endure more damage than most of medium and heavy armor users and still have insane ranged damage and the best mobility skill in the game... Light armor users are meant to be squishy, not tank as a rock... We are used to it because it's common on eso now... But it shouldn't be like this...
No other games have it..
Strong Damage dealers need to have it's weakness... And mag sorcs have none...
Eh I call bs. I find sorcs wearing light armor all the time in pvp and they already shred like paper. Sounds like OP needs to git gudBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not posting here because I'm losing to sorcs... I'm doing it because even I'm killing them, they are unbalanced, as permablockersChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics
Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...
Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??
Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...
*Facepalm...
Isn't it ironic that someone who doesn't even know that armor mitigation isn't applied to shields wants to lecture others...And to remember... Shields don't take more damage when target have it's armour broken, don't take more damage from crits... It's more defensive power than needed... And double or triple it... Now it's ridiculous...
I understand that sorcs depend on shields to survive... But the problem is the stacking of it and the low damage it receives overall...
What is wrong in what I said?
Sorcs doesn't have downsides when debuffed, shields don't take more or less damage based on resistances, that's the problems, because even using light armour, they make crit builds and penetration builds worthless, even when they have the most penetration against all non shielded oponents, by having light armour passives and staff and set passives...
And let us think a little more...
So... To have more defenses, sustain and damage what they need?
ONLY MAX MAGICA
I don't see permablockers having sustain by stacking max health, or more damage...
Neither mag NBS or Stam/mag dks...
Keep being cheese baby...
I know you like it, like wrobel...
Save your stupid attempts to insult and brighten up.
Shields don't take resistance into account. You don't have to debuff them. This is not a disadvantage for you. Get that into your head.
You save CP, set boni, munuds stunes on penetration or skill slots, resources and GCDs on applying debuffs. Simply because it is not necessary.
You can twist and turn how you like it. But instead of "crit and pen" you simply can invest all in max resources and raw spell/wpn dmg and still be effective against shields. Hell, there are even sets and enchants that ignore shields entirely.
But god forbid crit + pen isn't best at every giving opponent.
And please anlighten me how max magicka impacts magicka regeneration.
Permablocking functions on whole different mechanics. Through a mix of HA and class passives, broken ways to calculate block costs and Ultimates.
In this game everything isn't the same. Yet.
Keep being ignorant baby...
I know you like it, like every crybaby.
So what you say is that everybody should change theirs builds to be in equal to sorcs?
Alright...
You are telling me that even penetration, crits and helping debuffs, components of offensive part of every build should be ignored? And stacked to high values, more than any heal...
At the same time sorcs can keep high crit and high pen... Alright, alright... I give up...
I'm crying okay... I'm a cry baby...
Let me Save my time and stupid attempts to insult to brighten and look for hypocrites....
I didn't see you kill many shield stacking sorcs. I did see you struggle as DKs don't really have high spamable burst like sorc's/nbs. But what sorcs/nbs don't have is the ability to block or Regen resorces outside of Regen.
In the end, it comes down to CC attempts and draining a sorcs stamina. In your videos, I saw the CC early in nearly every fight. Combined with no points in shattering blows means your real opener attacks are predictable, easily negated by a mobile Sorc whose playing on your lack of range to their advantage.
Your mobilty is correct. Mist form into talons/take flight. But dual snb DK, in my opinion is outdated in this mobilty meta without a way to use snare/cost poisons from range.
New players or not, if a Sorc is beating you in that build, it's because they outplayed you. Mobility>dmg.
You can’t run Sorc (or any magic class) out of stamina anymore. I play both magic and stamina and I never run out of stam anymore on my magic toons with CP the way it is. This hasn’t been a problem for magic users in like forever.
You still should be able to. Break free, even with 16% reduction is still over 4k per cast. And generally most mag builds run 14k stam. so 3 cc attempts means death.
That's why I say mobilty> most stats. The ability to reset fights offsets these weaknesses entirely. Why else is most of cyro a NB? Cloak+shade+major expedition (even sorc streak+sprint) is superior to purge spam/Ultimate jumping.
Standing in one place sucks. And it sucks even more if you target can move away if they run out of resources to Regen.Edited by Minno on November 9, 2017 3:30PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Killset✭✭✭✭I'm not posting here because I'm losing to sorcs... I'm doing it because even I'm killing them, they are unbalanced, as permablockersChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics
Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...
Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??
Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...
*Facepalm...
Isn't it ironic that someone who doesn't even know that armor mitigation isn't applied to shields wants to lecture others...And to remember... Shields don't take more damage when target have it's armour broken, don't take more damage from crits... It's more defensive power than needed... And double or triple it... Now it's ridiculous...
I understand that sorcs depend on shields to survive... But the problem is the stacking of it and the low damage it receives overall...
What is wrong in what I said?
Sorcs doesn't have downsides when debuffed, shields don't take more or less damage based on resistances, that's the problems, because even using light armour, they make crit builds and penetration builds worthless, even when they have the most penetration against all non shielded oponents, by having light armour passives and staff and set passives...
And let us think a little more...
So... To have more defenses, sustain and damage what they need?
ONLY MAX MAGICA
I don't see permablockers having sustain by stacking max health, or more damage...
Neither mag NBS or Stam/mag dks...
Keep being cheese baby...
I know you like it, like wrobel...
Save your stupid attempts to insult and brighten up.
Shields don't take resistance into account. You don't have to debuff them. This is not a disadvantage for you. Get that into your head.
You save CP, set boni, munuds stunes on penetration or skill slots, resources and GCDs on applying debuffs. Simply because it is not necessary.
You can twist and turn how you like it. But instead of "crit and pen" you simply can invest all in max resources and raw spell/wpn dmg and still be effective against shields. Hell, there are even sets and enchants that ignore shields entirely.
But god forbid crit + pen isn't best at every giving opponent.
And please anlighten me how max magicka impacts magicka regeneration.
Permablocking functions on whole different mechanics. Through a mix of HA and class passives, broken ways to calculate block costs and Ultimates.
In this game everything isn't the same. Yet.
Keep being ignorant baby...
I know you like it, like every crybaby.
So what you say is that everybody should change theirs builds to be in equal to sorcs?
Alright...
You are telling me that even penetration, crits and helping debuffs, components of offensive part of every build should be ignored? And stacked to high values, more than any heal...
At the same time sorcs can keep high crit and high pen... Alright, alright... I give up...
I'm crying okay... I'm a cry baby...
Let me Save my time and stupid attempts to insult to brighten and look for hypocrites....
I didn't see you kill many shield stacking sorcs. I did see you struggle as DKs don't really have high spamable burst like sorc's/nbs. But what sorcs/nbs don't have is the ability to block or Regen resorces outside of Regen.
In the end, it comes down to CC attempts and draining a sorcs stamina. In your videos, I saw the CC early in nearly every fight. Combined with no points in shattering blows means your real opener attacks are predictable, easily negated by a mobile Sorc whose playing on your lack of range to their advantage.
Your mobilty is correct. Mist form into talons/take flight. But dual snb DK, in my opinion is outdated in this mobilty meta without a way to use snare/cost poisons from range.
New players or not, if a Sorc is beating you in that build, it's because they outplayed you. Mobility>dmg.
You can’t run Sorc (or any magic class) out of stamina anymore. I play both magic and stamina and I never run out of stam anymore on my magic toons with CP the way it is. This hasn’t been a problem for magic users in like forever.
You still should be able to. Break free, even with 16% reduction is still over 4k per cast. And generally most mag builds run 14k stam. so 3 cc attempts means death.
That's why I say mobilty> most stats. The ability to reset fights offsets these weaknesses entirely. Why else is most of cyro a NB? Cloak+shade+major expedition (even sorc streak+sprint) is superior to purge spam/Ultimate jumping.
Standing in one place sucks. And it sucks even more if you target can move away if they run out of resources to Regen.
19% break free reduction. And you conveniently ignored stam regen and pots to prove your point. If you are dead after 3 cc breaks on your Mag classes I’m not sure what to tell you. Or maybe you are just shaping facts to support your narrative. I see that a lot around here.
1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not posting here because I'm losing to sorcs... I'm doing it because even I'm killing them, they are unbalanced, as permablockersChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics
Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...
Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??
Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...
*Facepalm...
Isn't it ironic that someone who doesn't even know that armor mitigation isn't applied to shields wants to lecture others...And to remember... Shields don't take more damage when target have it's armour broken, don't take more damage from crits... It's more defensive power than needed... And double or triple it... Now it's ridiculous...
I understand that sorcs depend on shields to survive... But the problem is the stacking of it and the low damage it receives overall...
What is wrong in what I said?
Sorcs doesn't have downsides when debuffed, shields don't take more or less damage based on resistances, that's the problems, because even using light armour, they make crit builds and penetration builds worthless, even when they have the most penetration against all non shielded oponents, by having light armour passives and staff and set passives...
And let us think a little more...
So... To have more defenses, sustain and damage what they need?
ONLY MAX MAGICA
I don't see permablockers having sustain by stacking max health, or more damage...
Neither mag NBS or Stam/mag dks...
Keep being cheese baby...
I know you like it, like wrobel...
Save your stupid attempts to insult and brighten up.
Shields don't take resistance into account. You don't have to debuff them. This is not a disadvantage for you. Get that into your head.
You save CP, set boni, munuds stunes on penetration or skill slots, resources and GCDs on applying debuffs. Simply because it is not necessary.
You can twist and turn how you like it. But instead of "crit and pen" you simply can invest all in max resources and raw spell/wpn dmg and still be effective against shields. Hell, there are even sets and enchants that ignore shields entirely.
But god forbid crit + pen isn't best at every giving opponent.
And please anlighten me how max magicka impacts magicka regeneration.
Permablocking functions on whole different mechanics. Through a mix of HA and class passives, broken ways to calculate block costs and Ultimates.
In this game everything isn't the same. Yet.
Keep being ignorant baby...
I know you like it, like every crybaby.
So what you say is that everybody should change theirs builds to be in equal to sorcs?
Alright...
You are telling me that even penetration, crits and helping debuffs, components of offensive part of every build should be ignored? And stacked to high values, more than any heal...
At the same time sorcs can keep high crit and high pen... Alright, alright... I give up...
I'm crying okay... I'm a cry baby...
Let me Save my time and stupid attempts to insult to brighten and look for hypocrites....
I didn't see you kill many shield stacking sorcs. I did see you struggle as DKs don't really have high spamable burst like sorc's/nbs. But what sorcs/nbs don't have is the ability to block or Regen resorces outside of Regen.
In the end, it comes down to CC attempts and draining a sorcs stamina. In your videos, I saw the CC early in nearly every fight. Combined with no points in shattering blows means your real opener attacks are predictable, easily negated by a mobile Sorc whose playing on your lack of range to their advantage.
Your mobilty is correct. Mist form into talons/take flight. But dual snb DK, in my opinion is outdated in this mobilty meta without a way to use snare/cost poisons from range.
New players or not, if a Sorc is beating you in that build, it's because they outplayed you. Mobility>dmg.
You can’t run Sorc (or any magic class) out of stamina anymore. I play both magic and stamina and I never run out of stam anymore on my magic toons with CP the way it is. This hasn’t been a problem for magic users in like forever.
You still should be able to. Break free, even with 16% reduction is still over 4k per cast. And generally most mag builds run 14k stam. so 3 cc attempts means death.
That's why I say mobilty> most stats. The ability to reset fights offsets these weaknesses entirely. Why else is most of cyro a NB? Cloak+shade+major expedition (even sorc streak+sprint) is superior to purge spam/Ultimate jumping.
Standing in one place sucks. And it sucks even more if you target can move away if they run out of resources to Regen.
19% break free reduction. And you conveniently ignored stam regen and pots to prove your point. If you are dead after 3 cc breaks on your Mag classes I’m not sure what to tell you. Or maybe you are just shaping facts to support your narrative. I see that a lot around here.
Not everyone plays CP campaigns.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭I have an idea, how about they just remove all stun effects on all skills for all classes when in pvp, then people wouldnt constantly be looking for the next cheap stun skill. Crystal frags feels find to me. Its evenryones dependence on stuns thats the problem.0
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ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Everyone also forgets how shields absorb all kind of damage bar unresistable ones. Ignores status effects (why?) and scales of a main stat that can't be debuted like any other type of defense can.
Sure CP can be said to cancel out. (in theory, not practice) and shield breaker exists. (having to run a set to counter is laughable) But there are so many less counters against shields than anything else.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone also forgets how shields absorb all kind of damage bar unresistable ones. Ignores status effects (why?) and scales of a main stat that can't be debuted like any other type of defense can.
Sure CP can be said to cancel out. (in theory, not practice) and shield breaker exists. (having to run a set to counter is laughable) But there are so many less counters against shields than anything else.
Translation: I don’t want to invest anything to be able to beat a Sorc with ease.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Everyone also forgets how shields absorb all kind of damage bar unresistable ones. Ignores status effects (why?) and scales of a main stat that can't be debuted like any other type of defense can.
Sure CP can be said to cancel out. (in theory, not practice) and shield breaker exists. (having to run a set to counter is laughable) But there are so many less counters against shields than anything else.
Translation: I don’t want to invest anything to be able to beat a Sorc with ease.
Translation: The CP doesn't affect equally. Since a shield scales of mag, it's easier to beef up whilst keeping damage. For a shattering blow user that isn't a shield user, there will be a split between def and offense. Thus making the damage scaling tree worse.
Make it reduce shield size by 25% for x sec like siphoner, then you have a fair counter.
And what other defense do you have to invest into a full set against to get a worthwhile counter. A stam only set too. Oblivion damage was nerfed and is no longer majorly useful.
The only build I can see that provides a proper counter to shields without sacrificing something against every other build is a bleed build.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not posting here because I'm losing to sorcs... I'm doing it because even I'm killing them, they are unbalanced, as permablockersChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics
Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...
Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??
Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...
*Facepalm...
Isn't it ironic that someone who doesn't even know that armor mitigation isn't applied to shields wants to lecture others...And to remember... Shields don't take more damage when target have it's armour broken, don't take more damage from crits... It's more defensive power than needed... And double or triple it... Now it's ridiculous...
I understand that sorcs depend on shields to survive... But the problem is the stacking of it and the low damage it receives overall...
What is wrong in what I said?
Sorcs doesn't have downsides when debuffed, shields don't take more or less damage based on resistances, that's the problems, because even using light armour, they make crit builds and penetration builds worthless, even when they have the most penetration against all non shielded oponents, by having light armour passives and staff and set passives...
And let us think a little more...
So... To have more defenses, sustain and damage what they need?
ONLY MAX MAGICA
I don't see permablockers having sustain by stacking max health, or more damage...
Neither mag NBS or Stam/mag dks...
Keep being cheese baby...
I know you like it, like wrobel...
Save your stupid attempts to insult and brighten up.
Shields don't take resistance into account. You don't have to debuff them. This is not a disadvantage for you. Get that into your head.
You save CP, set boni, munuds stunes on penetration or skill slots, resources and GCDs on applying debuffs. Simply because it is not necessary.
You can twist and turn how you like it. But instead of "crit and pen" you simply can invest all in max resources and raw spell/wpn dmg and still be effective against shields. Hell, there are even sets and enchants that ignore shields entirely.
But god forbid crit + pen isn't best at every giving opponent.
And please anlighten me how max magicka impacts magicka regeneration.
Permablocking functions on whole different mechanics. Through a mix of HA and class passives, broken ways to calculate block costs and Ultimates.
In this game everything isn't the same. Yet.
Keep being ignorant baby...
I know you like it, like every crybaby.
So what you say is that everybody should change theirs builds to be in equal to sorcs?
Alright...
You are telling me that even penetration, crits and helping debuffs, components of offensive part of every build should be ignored? And stacked to high values, more than any heal...
At the same time sorcs can keep high crit and high pen... Alright, alright... I give up...
I'm crying okay... I'm a cry baby...
Let me Save my time and stupid attempts to insult to brighten and look for hypocrites....
I didn't see you kill many shield stacking sorcs. I did see you struggle as DKs don't really have high spamable burst like sorc's/nbs. But what sorcs/nbs don't have is the ability to block or Regen resorces outside of Regen.
In the end, it comes down to CC attempts and draining a sorcs stamina. In your videos, I saw the CC early in nearly every fight. Combined with no points in shattering blows means your real opener attacks are predictable, easily negated by a mobile Sorc whose playing on your lack of range to their advantage.
Your mobilty is correct. Mist form into talons/take flight. But dual snb DK, in my opinion is outdated in this mobilty meta without a way to use snare/cost poisons from range.
New players or not, if a Sorc is beating you in that build, it's because they outplayed you. Mobility>dmg.
You can’t run Sorc (or any magic class) out of stamina anymore. I play both magic and stamina and I never run out of stam anymore on my magic toons with CP the way it is. This hasn’t been a problem for magic users in like forever.
You still should be able to. Break free, even with 16% reduction is still over 4k per cast. And generally most mag builds run 14k stam. so 3 cc attempts means death.
That's why I say mobilty> most stats. The ability to reset fights offsets these weaknesses entirely. Why else is most of cyro a NB? Cloak+shade+major expedition (even sorc streak+sprint) is superior to purge spam/Ultimate jumping.
Standing in one place sucks. And it sucks even more if you target can move away if they run out of resources to Regen.
19% break free reduction. And you conveniently ignored stam regen and pots to prove your point. If you are dead after 3 cc breaks on your Mag classes I’m not sure what to tell you. Or maybe you are just shaping facts to support your narrative. I see that a lot around here.
Well that starts to mud the argument. Because they did buff up siphoner to include potions then you also have cost poisons.
It's probably easier to drain their mag more than Stam, but then that would mean everyone hating on sorcs has no reason to get mad because it's easier to run cost poisons/siphoniner than it is to sheild stack lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everyone also forgets how shields absorb all kind of damage bar unresistable ones. Ignores status effects (why?) and scales of a main stat that can't be debuted like any other type of defense can.
Sure CP can be said to cancel out. (in theory, not practice) and shield breaker exists. (having to run a set to counter is laughable) But there are so many less counters against shields than anything else.
Translation: I don’t want to invest anything to be able to beat a Sorc with ease.
Translation: The CP doesn't affect equally. Since a shield scales of mag, it's easier to beef up whilst keeping damage. For a shattering blow user that isn't a shield user, there will be a split between def and offense. Thus making the damage scaling tree worse.
Make it reduce shield size by 25% for x sec like siphoner, then you have a fair counter.
And what other defense do you have to invest into a full set against to get a worthwhile counter. A stam only set too. Oblivion damage was nerfed and is no longer majorly useful.
The only build I can see that provides a proper counter to shields without sacrificing something against every other build is a bleed build.
Shields are not the problem. If anything CP is. You’d know that if you played any noCP.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not posting here because I'm losing to sorcs... I'm doing it because even I'm killing them, they are unbalanced, as permablockersChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics
Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...
Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??
Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...
*Facepalm...
Isn't it ironic that someone who doesn't even know that armor mitigation isn't applied to shields wants to lecture others...And to remember... Shields don't take more damage when target have it's armour broken, don't take more damage from crits... It's more defensive power than needed... And double or triple it... Now it's ridiculous...
I understand that sorcs depend on shields to survive... But the problem is the stacking of it and the low damage it receives overall...
What is wrong in what I said?
Sorcs doesn't have downsides when debuffed, shields don't take more or less damage based on resistances, that's the problems, because even using light armour, they make crit builds and penetration builds worthless, even when they have the most penetration against all non shielded oponents, by having light armour passives and staff and set passives...
And let us think a little more...
So... To have more defenses, sustain and damage what they need?
ONLY MAX MAGICA
I don't see permablockers having sustain by stacking max health, or more damage...
Neither mag NBS or Stam/mag dks...
Keep being cheese baby...
I know you like it, like wrobel...
Save your stupid attempts to insult and brighten up.
Shields don't take resistance into account. You don't have to debuff them. This is not a disadvantage for you. Get that into your head.
You save CP, set boni, munuds stunes on penetration or skill slots, resources and GCDs on applying debuffs. Simply because it is not necessary.
You can twist and turn how you like it. But instead of "crit and pen" you simply can invest all in max resources and raw spell/wpn dmg and still be effective against shields. Hell, there are even sets and enchants that ignore shields entirely.
But god forbid crit + pen isn't best at every giving opponent.
And please anlighten me how max magicka impacts magicka regeneration.
Permablocking functions on whole different mechanics. Through a mix of HA and class passives, broken ways to calculate block costs and Ultimates.
In this game everything isn't the same. Yet.
Keep being ignorant baby...
I know you like it, like every crybaby.
So what you say is that everybody should change theirs builds to be in equal to sorcs?
Alright...
You are telling me that even penetration, crits and helping debuffs, components of offensive part of every build should be ignored? And stacked to high values, more than any heal...
At the same time sorcs can keep high crit and high pen... Alright, alright... I give up...
I'm crying okay... I'm a cry baby...
Let me Save my time and stupid attempts to insult to brighten and look for hypocrites....
I didn't see you kill many shield stacking sorcs. I did see you struggle as DKs don't really have high spamable burst like sorc's/nbs. But what sorcs/nbs don't have is the ability to block or Regen resorces outside of Regen.
In the end, it comes down to CC attempts and draining a sorcs stamina. In your videos, I saw the CC early in nearly every fight. Combined with no points in shattering blows means your real opener attacks are predictable, easily negated by a mobile Sorc whose playing on your lack of range to their advantage.
Your mobilty is correct. Mist form into talons/take flight. But dual snb DK, in my opinion is outdated in this mobilty meta without a way to use snare/cost poisons from range.
New players or not, if a Sorc is beating you in that build, it's because they outplayed you. Mobility>dmg.
You can’t run Sorc (or any magic class) out of stamina anymore. I play both magic and stamina and I never run out of stam anymore on my magic toons with CP the way it is. This hasn’t been a problem for magic users in like forever.
You still should be able to. Break free, even with 16% reduction is still over 4k per cast. And generally most mag builds run 14k stam. so 3 cc attempts means death.
That's why I say mobilty> most stats. The ability to reset fights offsets these weaknesses entirely. Why else is most of cyro a NB? Cloak+shade+major expedition (even sorc streak+sprint) is superior to purge spam/Ultimate jumping.
Standing in one place sucks. And it sucks even more if you target can move away if they run out of resources to Regen.
19% break free reduction. And you conveniently ignored stam regen and pots to prove your point. If you are dead after 3 cc breaks on your Mag classes I’m not sure what to tell you. Or maybe you are just shaping facts to support your narrative. I see that a lot around here.
Not everyone plays CP campaigns.
And not everyone runs tri pots. Some classes run speed pots, which the cheapest one only gives a hot.
And how much Regen does a mag build actually run? I run around 1k with 14000 Stam. But sorcs? Probably 600 Stam Regen and the same Stam level. Either way that's 600 Stam every 2 seconds, and the Sorc isn't going to stand around while they get hit with CC attempts.
They are going to kite you till their range becomes an advantage. And all the videos I've seen are showing double snb bars on a non-mobility class; the sorcs straight up played against their disadvantage. And even if they got close, there was no attempt to take advantage of the 6 second duration or layer dots to help you save resources for burst attempts.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »And then whats next? Nerf cloak because they can dodge projectiles or reset a fight? Nerf bol so templars cant heal anymore? bury DKs in the ground removing their tankiness? Seriously, this "nerf mentality" is what makes people leave, no one like to have their class destroyed because people whine.
Any magicka class can stack 2 shields, and yes it is not hard to counter shield stacking, oblivion damage, shield breaker, knight slayer. You just cant wear shield destroying build and expect to perform well against non shield people, thats the way it is, its called "counter play", its no ones fault you wanna go yolo and play regular damage against shields and expect an easy life, the shield is the counterplay for you mega burst damage.
Yes you can be a DMG class without those sets, its called using a cc right when his shield is about to expire. If you YOLO on the cc attempt, then the Sorc decides when he can put up his shield.
Templars have a unique cc ability which, if you can catch the Sorc with his pants down, will do unblocked reflect DMG that count as a dot against his shield (5000 a pop) with another 5k after 4 seconds. With puryfing light, you'll have another burst after 6 seconds assuming the Sorc didn't go full YOLO when you cast unstable core, and you will have put pressure on the Sorc.
Don't believe me?
https://youtu.be/ZSRqw7w09zo
I really don't understand how anyone can still have issues with sorcs in 2017; I'm a terrible player and even I feel they are killable.
That vid you fought a templar not a sorc.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People saying sorcs are underpowered seriously?
So a high ranged unblockable stun/root, best defense and great mobility isn't enough?
They nerfed burst stupidly, but mag sorcs are still top 3 behind wardens.
I always thought permablocking was the best defence...Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Dots, on target burst damage like potl and ground targeted damage like shalk. Abilities that drop block. The constant nerfs to it. The sacrifice to create a block build that can kill people.
Nah. Block is less OP.
It's the combination of stuff like seventh and shield ult as well as other TTK messes that make block OP.Edited by ak_pvp on November 9, 2017 7:30PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
Horowonnoe✭✭✭✭✭Embrace
PC / NA
Templar Healer "False Eye"
Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"
Builds & Guides:
Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.
Notable Achievements:
- World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
- World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is so entertaining. It's merely about players that have not developed their PvP playing skill wanting the game's difficulty level brought to their playing level.
Wel, it's also about players pointing out that simple fact.
I can only guess that those complaining about sorcs are conveniently skimming past the posts from players saying it's easy for them to kill a shielding Sorc. It's inconvenient for them to acknowledge such a simple statement that runs contrary to thei complain.Edited by idk on November 9, 2017 7:34PM2 -
Zaldan✭✭✭✭✭hate to break it to you but as far as ZO$ is concerned they already fixed shields, they're not going to change their game design because the players disagree lol, can think of maybe two instances were ZO$ changed something because of player feedback and those took a long time1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This thread is so entertaining. It's merely about players that have not developed their PvP playing skill wanting the game's difficulty level brought to their playing level.
Wel, it's also about players pointing out that simple fact.
No. It's players. Predominantly sorcs claiming superiority without backing up with facts.
Quick recap.
Best scaling defense
Least fair counters
Least debuffs if any
OP.
Sorc: fine. Would have them be more burst and speed. After a shield nerf.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Everyone also forgets how shields absorb all kind of damage bar unresistable ones. Ignores status effects (why?) and scales of a main stat that can't be debuted like any other type of defense can.
Sure CP can be said to cancel out. (in theory, not practice) and shield breaker exists. (having to run a set to counter is laughable) But there are so many less counters against shields than anything else.
Translation: I don’t want to invest anything to be able to beat a Sorc with ease.
Translation: The CP doesn't affect equally. Since a shield scales of mag, it's easier to beef up whilst keeping damage. For a shattering blow user that isn't a shield user, there will be a split between def and offense. Thus making the damage scaling tree worse.
Make it reduce shield size by 25% for x sec like siphoner, then you have a fair counter.
And what other defense do you have to invest into a full set against to get a worthwhile counter. A stam only set too. Oblivion damage was nerfed and is no longer majorly useful.
The only build I can see that provides a proper counter to shields without sacrificing something against every other build is a bleed build.
Shields are not the problem. If anything CP is. You’d know that if you played any noCP.
I have. And shields are less strong there because no bastion and less sustain overall. Still a problem with shields in general, since the game is balanced around CP and it is OP there. if it were up to me CP would be all active like unchained/riposte.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »And then whats next? Nerf cloak because they can dodge projectiles or reset a fight? Nerf bol so templars cant heal anymore? bury DKs in the ground removing their tankiness? Seriously, this "nerf mentality" is what makes people leave, no one like to have their class destroyed because people whine.
Any magicka class can stack 2 shields, and yes it is not hard to counter shield stacking, oblivion damage, shield breaker, knight slayer. You just cant wear shield destroying build and expect to perform well against non shield people, thats the way it is, its called "counter play", its no ones fault you wanna go yolo and play regular damage against shields and expect an easy life, the shield is the counterplay for you mega burst damage.
Yes you can be a DMG class without those sets, its called using a cc right when his shield is about to expire. If you YOLO on the cc attempt, then the Sorc decides when he can put up his shield.
Templars have a unique cc ability which, if you can catch the Sorc with his pants down, will do unblocked reflect DMG that count as a dot against his shield (5000 a pop) with another 5k after 4 seconds. With puryfing light, you'll have another burst after 6 seconds assuming the Sorc didn't go full YOLO when you cast unstable core, and you will have put pressure on the Sorc.
Don't believe me?https://youtu.be/ZSRqw7w09zo
I really don't understand how anyone can still have issues with sorcs in 2017; I'm a terrible player and even I feel they are killable.
That vid you fought a templar not a sorc.
I fought both. You stopped watching after 15 seconds.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭Remove CP from PvP and #nerfsorcsPC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread is so entertaining. It's merely about players that have not developed their PvP playing skill wanting the game's difficulty level brought to their playing level.
Wel, it's also about players pointing out that simple fact.
No. It's players. Predominantly sorcs claiming superiority without backing up with facts.
Quick recap.
Best scaling defense
Least fair counters
Least debuffs if any
OP.
Sorc: fine. Would have them be more burst and speed. After a shield nerf.
And sorcs tanking 10 people, escaping whenever they want, bursting everyone, having sustained dmg and shields costing 2k are facts? Got it.Edited by pieratsos on November 9, 2017 8:55PM2 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭This thread is so entertaining. It's merely about players that have not developed their PvP playing skill wanting the game's difficulty level brought to their playing level.
Wel, it's also about players pointing out that simple fact.
No. It's players. Predominantly sorcs claiming superiority without backing up with facts.
Quick recap.
Best scaling defense
Least fair counters
Least debuffs if any
OP.
Sorc: fine. Would have them be more burst and speed. After a shield nerf.
And sorcs tanking 10 people, escaping whenever they want, bursting everyone, having sustained dmg and shields costing 2k are facts? Got it.
And (nightblades) (rolldodging) 10 people, escaping whenever they want, bursting everyone, having sustained dmg and (free invis crits) costing 2k are facts? Got it
+Now that I can't stun myself with my own crystal the reflect counters are a lot weaker. So glad Wrobel opted for less decisive game play.
(sarcasm)
@buffler dude finish the vid.Edited by Pinja on November 9, 2017 11:22PM0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This thread is so entertaining. It's merely about players that have not developed their PvP playing skill wanting the game's difficulty level brought to their playing level.
Wel, it's also about players pointing out that simple fact.
No. It's players. Predominantly sorcs claiming superiority without backing up with facts.
Quick recap.
Best scaling defense
Least fair counters
Least debuffs if any
OP.
Sorc: fine. Would have them be more burst and speed. After a shield nerf.
And sorcs tanking 10 people, escaping whenever they want, bursting everyone, having sustained dmg and shields costing 2k are facts? Got it.
I have already shown you videos of sorcs tanking many people, but you said hurr durr doesn't count because they use LOS, Which would automatically disqualify 90% of tank vids on youtube. I showed you a vid of sypher streaking 5x and gaining a lot of distance. (Turning back and fighting) Nope, doesn't count.
Never claimed sustained damage, or 2k shields, but the fact they can be up 100% is true and they did have good burst. (less so now since they all use clench)Edited by ak_pvp on November 9, 2017 11:22PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0
