Any news about fix to shield stacking sorcs?

Pinja

Vesper_BR wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Any magicka class can stack 2 shields, and yes it is not hard to counter shield stacking, oblivion damage, shield breaker, knight slayer. You just cant wear shield destroying build and expect to perform well against non shield people, thats the way it is, its called "counter play", its no ones fault you wanna go yolo and play regular damage against shields and expect an easy life, the shield is the counterplay for you mega burst damage.

Shields aren't counter to high burst damage... They are counter to every damage... You think it's cool to force people to change theirs sets only to have a chance against sorceres when they have power to have insane burst, consistent damage, high sustain, ranged and non critable defenses? Templars and dks can sustain damage as much as shield stackers but they don't do high burst damage... Even more with high mobility...

Yesterday we tested the insanity of shield defense and my friend lv 19 was getting 6k shields and tanking alone one 660cp player easily... That's cool? And let's see the number of damage on shield can ensure... It's almost 7k each shield (mostly 20k all together if not more) in PvP with battle Spirit....
It's more than an average ultimates can do, and one shield that cost like 2k mag...
And sorcs can stack 3 of them...
at the same time his unblockable curse is hitting like a truck and his endless fury is waiting to proc in the same gcd as implosion to hitikill.... What's the counter play? You only talk about counter sets... That IMHO shouldn't exist if the shields were well designed and not overperforming... They created sets to counter shields... Lfmao! See how ridiculous it is?

I play eso Almost every day for like 5 to 8 hours and it's noticeable the difference of power when my friends play with theirs sorceres instead of another classes... Dueling or open world cirodill... It's became more ridiculous when I'm seeing almost 80% of my guild rolling sorcs to be competitive in PvP and pve... Due to the unbalanced distance in power to other classes....

Eso has its problems, everybody knows... Some persist for short time, other for more... But shielding has been around enough time to be addressed don't you think?

Of course if you keep spamming shields you wont die, if you go full block or full heal is the same, its an mmo, sets counter sets and skills, have you played a sorc against unstable core? I did, its utterly pathetic, but i dont come crying in the forums asking for nerfs, classes will always have advantages and disadvantages against one another, if you want true balance, duel against the same class, same spec, and of course, naked, there you go, perfect balance.

Okay now.. with this I can only assume you agreed with me. There's no argument to defend it...
Thanks!

<Looks Left> <Looks Right>

Well on that note its all about the build & variance i've seen a 660 sustatain mag sorc who beat my stam sorc loose a 6-5min 1v1 vs a ~360ish champ mag DK It was back & forth between burst & heals the whole fight & he 2 shot the sorc when his shields where at 12% with a dragon leap combo. Any how he'd been at max the fight would've been over sooner. Not like their impregnable, shield stack builds are sustain builds, so there's a damage loss. They rely is the ultimate which isn't cheap giving you time to vs their set up with one of you own.

Apache_Kid

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

And then whats next? Nerf cloak because they can dodge projectiles or reset a fight? Nerf bol so templars cant heal anymore? bury DKs in the ground removing their tankiness? Seriously, this "nerf mentality" is what makes people leave, no one like to have their class destroyed because people whine.

Any magicka class can stack 2 shields, and yes it is not hard to counter shield stacking, oblivion damage, shield breaker, knight slayer. You just cant wear shield destroying build and expect to perform well against non shield people, thats the way it is, its called "counter play", its no ones fault you wanna go yolo and play regular damage against shields and expect an easy life, the shield is the counterplay for you mega burst damage.

So I'm supposed to use a 5-piece set as a counter towards 1 specific build? What happens when I run into one of the 10+ types of builds where my character is now at a distinct disadvantage because I have a whole set that does nothing against that build?

Streak in conjunction with multiple shields is stacking extreme mobility on top of extreme damage mitigation that is also un-crittable.

Vesper_BR

Erraln wrote: »

Bro, shieldsorc's been nerfed like, five times. Shield duration, mobility, skillcosts, on an on... If you still can't beat it that's on you.

You say like it was okay back then... And by the mercy of God's they nerfed it...
The matter of me being able to beat sorcs aren't important since I can do beat sorcs... Pretty easily on magdk... But only because magdks are cancerous in 1v1... And duels are not proof of fairness and balance... In cirodill is more evident, because like I said, they have the best mobility, best damage and..... Great survivability...

I can see that only sorcs post here to defend like it's a religion....

Give sorcs back theirs frags. Give dks they'd Fossilize and fix the damm shields.

LittlePinkDot

The Benchmark should always be PVE Solo. If it becomes impossible to solo the game, then the game is broken. If the shields are required for PVE solo then PVPers just need to get over it.

ak_pvp

Erraln wrote: »

Bro, shieldsorc's been nerfed like, five times. Shield duration, mobility, skillcosts, on an on... If you still can't beat it that's on you.

DKs, nbs, and templars have been nerfed much much more.

Honestly, since the cfrags nerf, most sorcs switched to flame reach, thus nerfing damage. Meaning sorc now have tankiness and mobility, but lower burst. Not what I think sorc should be but eh.

On the matter, shields are broken OP. Like a spammable, mag scaling, status effect ignoring, nearly all damage mitigating. (Stuff like block/roll takes dots and ground based.)

What I would change. Players should take dot damage placed prior to shielding. Shields should be a shield. Not an extra health button.

Make shielded players take status effects.

Allow stacking, if you want to stack, sure. And if it crits shields would be useless since it would amplify already unresisted damage. (maybe if impen affected it. )

Nerf shieldbreaker.

idk

I didn't know shield stacking was broken. I guess you nerf it enough times and it can be considered broken.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Any good stam player should always beat a good Sorc in a 1v1. Stop complaining.

WillhelmBlack

I killed a group with a mixture of all classes including 3 sorcs couple nights ago. There was one survivor, Mag Sorc, complete potato, didn't have a CC, only attack was lightning heavy but managed to survive all of my combo's whilst even laying on the ground not even CC breaking as it was out of Stam pretty fast! Who knows what it was wearing but the max magic must have been insane. Couldn't be killed, I actually gave up and wanted to respawn somewhere else, so I stopped fighting and saw what kinda damage it could do. Curse was strong, Lightning heavy was weak but the thing that killed me was destro ult (obviously stood in it on purpose) and then the easily excitable execute.

I don't get any of these problems in no CP, I don't even want to imagine a mag sorc in the next CP increase. 700+CP, Wizards Riposte, 70k max Magicka? What's that like 40k of replenishable shields?

ZOS ALWAYS nerf and buff the wrong things. Streak was fine, Curse was fine, Frags were fine. The two things that I find overpowered on Sorc is the zero effort execute and passive that goes along with it and the stacking of 3 different shields.

You'd think that if anything ever in this game needed the Minor/Major treatment it would be damage shields. It would surely be easier to balance.

Waffennacht

Short answer: no

Vesper_BR

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

ZOS ALWAYS nerf and buff the wrong things. Streak was fine, Curse was fine, Frags were fine. The two things that I find overpowered on Sorc is the zero effort execute and passive that goes along with it and the stacking of 3 different shields.

You'd think that if anything ever in this game needed the Minor/Major treatment it would be damage shields. It would surely be easier to balance.

That...

I_killed_Vivec

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

The Benchmark should always be PVE Solo. If it becomes impossible to solo the game, then the game is broken. If the shields are required for PVE solo then PVPers just need to get over it.

Does that also apply to perma-blocking?

Also, if shields are required for solo PvE then isn't it essential that all classes have access to equivalent shields?

SHADOW2KK

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Im a magsorc level 40 and dying is a constant problem. Some quests require several potions and a few soul gems just to complete. Im only using boundless storm, was not aware it could stack with conjured ward.
Maybe the reason they nerfed the damage instead of the shields is because sorcs that are still leveling can barely make it as it is. And I lile to be Solo, I have nobody to help and I dont use summons

Mmmm, when I levelled my mag sorc 2 years or so ago, I literally did not die till Vet 16 due to a stupid mistake.

Mag sorcs are deadly and very versatile if you know what you are doing.

Keep your shields up, at least harness magicka and or hardened ward.

LittlePinkDot

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Im a magsorc level 40 and dying is a constant problem. Some quests require several potions and a few soul gems just to complete. Im only using boundless storm, was not aware it could stack with conjured ward.
Maybe the reason they nerfed the damage instead of the shields is because sorcs that are still leveling can barely make it as it is. And I lile to be Solo, I have nobody to help and I dont use summons

Mmmm, when I levelled my mag sorc 2 years or so ago, I literally did not die till Vet 16 due to a stupid mistake.

Mag sorcs are deadly and very versatile if you know what you are doing.

Keep your shields up, at least harness magicka and or hardened ward.

If you leveled it 2 years ago then wasnt that before the nerfs?

And as for that other guys post about CP levels going up to 700 or something. ZOS just shouldnt increase it anymore, the difference between a character with no CP at all and one with 600+ is too wide. Even if said skill seems OP at 600+cp nerfing the skill could make it unusable for lower level players. The wide difference between new players and 600+cp players will just make it impossible to balance. And honestly it will probably never be balanced, it was never balanced in Diablo 2 or 3 either.

Morgul667

Limit shield stacking to 2

Lord-Otto

ak_pvp wrote: »

Make shielded players take status effects.

This is happening already?
With shields, you eat every single snare, stun and root aimed at you. Every DoT applied. Every Major Breech, poison, resource-refilling heavy attack, enchantment, and so on.
Crits are no status effect. And if you want shields to be crittable, I want them to be able to crit for 50% more strength and have armor values applied to them.

tailedfox

The critable shields will never happen, light armor sorcs need protection of some sort to be able to stay alive, if you can't kill a single sorc I suggest reworking your build or getting better at pvp. Tips: drain their stam, drain their magic, stun them, it's actually simple.

Waffennacht

Just fyi they did say a big overhaul of class abilities will happen some point in the future, based on how the Warden class is laid out.

There also have been hints of an item level increase. (Unverified)

Quite frankly, I'd be surprised if whenever this happens, a ton of concerns will be addressed

WillhelmBlack

tailedfox wrote: »

The critable shields will never happen, light armor sorcs need protection of some sort to be able to stay alive, if you can't kill a single sorc I suggest reworking your build or getting better at pvp. Tips: drain their stam, drain their magic, stun them, it's actually simple.

What happens if you can't drain their Magic because it doesn't run out? Or are you talking from a multiple players perspective where that is possible? It's not normal to only die from multiple players unless you're a 100% dedicated tank, which Sorcs are not.

The only way I've found to kill Sorcs and be killed on Sorc these last few patches is MASSIVE unavoidable damage!

Qbiken

My suggestion:

* Class-specific shields should be allowed to stack. Also shields that comes from Undaunted skilline, the Alliance War-skilline and shields that comes from specific sets should be allowed to stack.

* Remove the ability to stack shields from Armor-skilline and Weapon-skilline. To compromise the loss of Shield-stacking, buff the class-specific shields (or all individual shields), such as Hardened Ward, Sun Shield, Igneous Shield etc, so that those shields becomes more attractive to use. I think the class-specific shields should be more appealing to use compared to shields that are available for all classes/builds etc.

Since a change where shield-stacking is removed would hurt the sorcerer class the most (magblades to a certain extent as well, but they´ve other defensive mechanism as well) a reduced penalty cost of streak would be a good compensation as well (instead of 50% increased cost, a 25-30% increased cost per extra use would be a fitting compensation for the loss of shield-stacking)

I can understand why people hate sorcerers for shield-stacking, they´re annoying as hell and the only real counter I´ve found available/decent is to stack as much weapon-damage as possible to take down their shields (The big con of playing as a werewolf is that you more or less instakill sorcs since you burst through their shields with 2-3 light attacks). But the fact that sorcerers have no other defensive mechanism is the reason they´ve to use shield-stacking (the same way magDK is more or less forced into the "permablocking" playstyle in PvP, sorcs are more or less forced into shield-stacking)

Didgerion

Vesper_BR wrote: »

it's becamibg ridiculous.... Nerfing frags wasn't the solution... Fix the shields... Make them critable... Affected by mending or whatever you guys think of...
But fix it, it's breaking the game...

@ZOS_Wrobel

Shields has no resistance, If you make them critable the sorcerers will have no defense.
For big shields sorcs have to stack magica instead of spell power. The damage doesn't scale up so well of magica.
A true glass canon would have small shields as you mentioned - all good here.

Also shields last 6 seconds only, they have 0 resistance - one surprise attack is removing one shield - quite balanced to me, Sorcs need 2 shield casts and NB needs 2 attacks to strip you out of shields .. except NB can go stealth 4 seconds and all hits toward him miss - much more powerful than shields .
If a NB CCs you while shieldless then you are dead and NB has ton of CC.
All NB's burst combos stun you while mag sorcs have ZERO combos that stun now.

Magica sorc is one of the weakest and less mobile class out there in cirodiil right now. Sorc does not stand a chance against a good stamina build or a good HA DK magica build both mobility wise and burst wise.

Also consider changing your build, looks like you are trying to run a crit build.
Crit builds are very weak in PVP as 100% of good players have a very high crit resistance.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Vesper_BR wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Any magicka class can stack 2 shields, and yes it is not hard to counter shield stacking, oblivion damage, shield breaker, knight slayer. You just cant wear shield destroying build and expect to perform well against non shield people, thats the way it is, its called "counter play", its no ones fault you wanna go yolo and play regular damage against shields and expect an easy life, the shield is the counterplay for you mega burst damage.

Shields aren't counter to high burst damage... They are counter to every damage... You think it's cool to force people to change theirs sets only to have a chance against sorceres when they have power to have insane burst, consistent damage, high sustain, ranged and non critable defenses? Templars and dks can sustain damage as much as shield stackers but they don't do high burst damage... Even more with high mobility...

Yesterday we tested the insanity of shield defense and my friend lv 19 was getting 6k shields and tanking alone one 660cp player easily... That's cool? And let's see the number of damage on shield can ensure... It's almost 7k each shield (mostly 20k all together if not more) in PvP with battle Spirit....
It's more than an average ultimates can do, and one shield that cost like 2k mag...
And sorcs can stack 3 of them...
at the same time his unblockable curse is hitting like a truck and his endless fury is waiting to proc in the same gcd as implosion to hitikill.... What's the counter play? You only talk about counter sets... That IMHO shouldn't exist if the shields were well designed and not overperforming... They created sets to counter shields... Lfmao! See how ridiculous it is?

I play eso Almost every day for like 5 to 8 hours and it's noticeable the difference of power when my friends play with theirs sorceres instead of another classes... Dueling or open world cirodill... It's became more ridiculous when I'm seeing almost 80% of my guild rolling sorcs to be competitive in PvP and pve... Due to the unbalanced distance in power to other classes....

Eso has its problems, everybody knows... Some persist for short time, other for more... But shielding has been around enough time to be addressed don't you think?

@Vesper_BR
I play stamblade in pve and PvP pretty decent, in PvP i have more dps then some sorcs in our trials guild, in PvP i have a gank build for solo play and tankier brawler setup for group play.... Play to your strength!!! Don't even try to burst a sorc with active shields as a nb. Wait till he doesn't expect it then 1 shot him from sstealth. Nb arent designed to fight openly as a class. Sorcs are op in a 1vs1 but so easy to catch on the wrong foot. Sorcs are fine people just make the mmistake of taking the fight to a place where sorcs can play out their strenghts=open area, fully shielded up. That's the actual problem not shields beeing op(which they are a bit but easy to work around)

Chilly-McFreeze

Did this guy really tried to pull an evidence by putting a battleveled char against a 660cp guy?

And did OP really tried to tell that sorcs have everything at all times? It's not like they need to invest in regen to achieve that mobility or into max resources for that big shields.

And did that idiotic throw-in resurfaced that their shields don't take more dmg when you invest in penetration?

TBH I'm sick of this ***. Go read some of the other nerf sorc threads and educate yourself before you jump the bandwagon. Or simply L2P

Adernath

Vesper_BR wrote: »

it's becamibg ridiculous.... Nerfing frags wasn't the solution... Fix the shields... Make them critable... Affected by mending or whatever you guys think of...
But fix it, it's breaking the game...

What is being ridiculous are threads like this calling for yet another nerf without rhyme or reason. Instead post your build here on the forums and ask the community for advice of your build. And post a video of you in action in pvp, so that we all can see how you perform and verify your claims.

Vesper_BR

Adernath wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

it's becamibg ridiculous.... Nerfing frags wasn't the solution... Fix the shields... Make them critable... Affected by mending or whatever you guys think of...
But fix it, it's breaking the game...

What is being ridiculous are threads like this calling for yet another nerf without rhyme or reason. Instead post your build here on the forums and ask the community for advice of your build. And post a video of you in action in pvp, so that we all can see how you perform and verify your claims.

https://youtu.be/boK3_9b1OZA

https://youtu.be/WPwROFxBUoQ

These are old videos from HOTR and morrowind... But i think u can see that I'm not that bad, as I think you are trying to expose my arguments by claiming that I could be some random or newer player...

And even so I still think that sorcs are overperfoming... More defense than heavy armour, more mobility than medium and more damage than any light armour build...
In mag dk is pretty normal to win sorcs... But in every other character it's hard and unbalanced as fu**, is like everybody wants to justify cheese by saying: play another chesse build and counter it...
What I was asking is for balance and fairness..


Keep claiming that sorcs are fine while exploiting it's easy mode...
(As I said before, my magdk is cheese too in 1v1 I know, but at least I don't have the high mobility and consitant burst damage or execute)...

I really don't care anymore, this eso community is becaming more and more cancerous as most of players only care about themselves and the class they play... Not enough balances and fixing will help it...

MehrunesFlagon

Vesper_BR wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

Because that would go well.

I don't know what's the reason to nerf sorcerer damage output... Let the sorcerer be the glass Cannon... Bit don't let them be the KEVLAR Cannon....

I like being a Gorilla glass cannon.

Vesper_BR

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

Because that would go well.

I don't know what's the reason to nerf sorcerer damage output... Let the sorcerer be the glass Cannon... Bit don't let them be the KEVLAR Cannon....

I like being a Gorilla glass cannon.

Something like it... Lol

Vesper_BR

And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics

Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...

Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??

Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...


*Facepalm...

Chilly-McFreeze

Vesper_BR wrote: »

And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics

Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...

Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??

Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...


*Facepalm...

Isn't it ironic that someone who doesn't even know that armor mitigation isn't applied to shields wants to lecture others...

Vesper_BR wrote: »

And to remember... Shields don't take more damage when target have it's armour broken, don't take more damage from crits... It's more defensive power than needed... And double or triple it... Now it's ridiculous...

I understand that sorcs depend on shields to survive... But the problem is the stacking of it and the low damage it receives overall...

Vesper_BR

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

And by the one that says that maximum magica doesn't benefit mag sorcs as spell damage... Pls bro go and study the eso mechanics

Max mag benefits all your damage AND your shields.... Only spell damage doesn't benefits you in class shields...

Remember that formula?
(Sd*10,05)+ (max mag)??

Don't try to sound like we don't know how it works...


*Facepalm...

Isn't it ironic that someone who doesn't even know that armor mitigation isn't applied to shields wants to lecture others...

Vesper_BR wrote: »

And to remember... Shields don't take more damage when target have it's armour broken, don't take more damage from crits... It's more defensive power than needed... And double or triple it... Now it's ridiculous...

I understand that sorcs depend on shields to survive... But the problem is the stacking of it and the low damage it receives overall...

What is wrong in what I said?

Sorcs doesn't have downsides when debuffed, shields don't take more or less damage based on resistances, that's the problems, because even using light armour, they make crit builds and penetration builds worthless, even when they have the most penetration against all non shielded oponents, by having light armour passives and staff and set passives...
And let us think a little more...

So... To have more defenses, sustain and damage what they need?

ONLY MAX MAGICA

I don't see permablockers having sustain by stacking max health, or more damage...
Neither mag NBS or Stam/mag dks...


Keep being cheese baby...
I know you like it, like wrobel...

Vesper_BR

One question:

What classes can play full divines, light armour and still endure so much damage?