Any news about fix to shield stacking sorcs?

pieratsos

ak_pvp wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

idk wrote: »

This thread is so entertaining. It's merely about players that have not developed their PvP playing skill wanting the game's difficulty level brought to their playing level.

Wel, it's also about players pointing out that simple fact.

No. It's players. Predominantly sorcs claiming superiority without backing up with facts.

Quick recap.

Best scaling defense
Least fair counters
Least debuffs if any
OP.

Sorc: fine. Would have them be more burst and speed. After a shield nerf.

And sorcs tanking 10 people, escaping whenever they want, bursting everyone, having sustained dmg and shields costing 2k are facts? Got it.

I have already shown you videos of sorcs tanking many people, but you said hurr durr doesn't count because they use LOS, Which would automatically disqualify 90% of tank vids on youtube. I showed you a vid of sypher streaking 5x and gaining a lot of distance. (Turning back and fighting) Nope, doesn't count.

Never claimed sustained damage, or 2k shields, but the fact they can be up 100% is true and they did have good burst. (less so now since they all use clench)

No you havent shown me videos of sorcs facetanking. Feel free to show me those videos. And yes you have shown me a video of sypher which proves the exact opposite of what you were implying. So what are u even talking about? Streaking 5 times -> blowing up his magicka pool -> has to stop streaking -> people catching up again. So much for that spammable streak guaranteed escape huh? I am sorry but the only thing you showed with that video is ur limited knowledge when it comes to sorcs because you simply couldnt analyze what was actually happening. And i explained it to you but i guess you have no interest in listening.

Speaking of videos tho. This thread has two videos of someone winning fights 1v2 against sorcs and yet still complaining about sorcs for whatever the reason. I guess people will never be happy until sorcs are free AP. That same video actually shows how easy shields can go down against high pressure.

No, you didnt claim sustained dmg, 2k shields. But someone else did in this thread and u are talking about facts. Ironically every thread like this is filled with exaggerations and lies like that.

And speaking of clench, wasnt you the one calling rune cage OP sorc ability that will guarantee sorc bursts, huge buff blah blah blah? And people were telling you, sorcs wont use that. Well i dont want to be the guy telling i told you so, but i did told you so.

Not even claiming that shieldstacking is good or that it should stay in game. But these kind of exaggerations and lies in every thread like this are getting old.

Beardimus

Voxicity wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Must be another new PvPer. Welcome to Cyrodiil OP, initially you may think Sorcs are OP, but as you play more you will realise they have a load of weaknesses, are easy to read (telegraph) you just need to alter your approach rather than trying to batter thru a ward.

Sorcs are the easiest class to counter and to kill. It just takes effort. Once you play a bit more you will realise this.

FYI no one is shield stacking since Morrowind. Most use two wards, and two wards are available to all classes........

TLDR - L2P

Shield stacking is using more than one shield at one time, therefore using two wards would be considered shield stacking. But then again words and their meanings don't really matter to sorcs who try and justify their OP class

So, you prove my point. Any class can shield stack. ANY. Light Armour ward and Healing ward. If its so mightly awesomely OP everyone would run them. They don't. As its not awesome. It's hard to sustain and if you are using active defence you are burning resource and skill cool downs not attacking.

Wards have been nerfed directly and indirectly multiple times, and I'm sorry if you dont have to skill to counter a Sorc, you are a Noob or haven't bothered to adapt your OP as heck Stam build tactics that normally REKT's everything in a flash .

An iota of thought and you can boss Sorcs around like any other class if not easier. I 100% prefer to fight a Sorc than any other class. They telegraph, are predictable and are mega easy to counter.

Beardimus

Ender1310 wrote: »

It's the synergy. Allowing you to stack one resource letting that resource be used for your mobility your defense and your offense. To easy. Other classes have to choose. You make specs choose and loose a bit more of the burst and I players would call it fair. That's not the case. It's e z mode. You wanna reference other posts reference easiest class to play polls. Sure reference the hundred other nerf sorc posts if every one is saying it.... it's a thing. It's easiest class to play and build.

This post alone shows you don't know how yo counter Sorcs. PvP MagSorc can't absolutely NOT stack one resource. It's the main class that has to have stamina to manage CC breaks. If you dont know that then you clearly aren't counter Sorcs in the best way, attacking their weakest pool.

A Sorc out of stamina is dead. MagSorcs HAVE to run tri stats to boost stamina a bit. Stamina classes need ZERO extra Magika, as its not needed to manage a base function of the game - CC.

Your argument is invalid. And shows the problem people have in taking a Sorc head on instead of using Sorc killing tactics effectively.

Beardimus

Minno wrote: »

SirMewser wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

These are old videos from HOTR and morrowind... But i think u can see that I'm not that bad, as I think you are trying to expose my arguments by claiming that I could be some random or newer player...

Certainly not, since now I've watched your videos! But what I want to know is an example of the ridiculous shield stacking of what you describe. You managed to kill every opponent in the end. In the second video for example at 5:10 you were fighting a templar and a sorc for a very long time (by focusing first on the templar), but I can not see what the issue with the sorc shield there. Then at around 9:40 there was another fight 1vs1 against a sorc. Again I can not see the problem with the sorc shield either.

Just skip to the last few minutes of each of these videos. Yeah I'm not a top tier player but neither are the guys I'm fighting so it's hardly a L2P issue we have here. I'm seriously considering Shieldbreaker even tho I despise that set when I'm on my Sorc.

https://youtu.be/LXro7B6B67M

https://youtu.be/-AoO8xnuuT8

Video 1: At the end he just stood there conserving mana while you burned yours, that isn't a shield issue that is you falling for a trap (as per usual ).

You didn't even push when NPCs were on him, you just stood behind a pillar and then went full blown magic dry.
After seeing that I refused to look at video 2, just stop blaming others, you got tricked okay we get it and now you're upset!

I saw no coordinated burst directly following cc attempts in neither videos. I also saw a permablocking build in the first video and a bleed stamplar in the second video.

But yea, neither showed an attempt at hitting right when the shield duration would be zero.

BOOM

This is the issue. People are using to being OP and killing everything the same way and iota of thought and you can smash a Sorc. But they don't. They type on here more than they should try a coordinated CC & burst
#NerfSorc threads are truly laughable now and a gauge of PvP noobity

WillhelmBlack

So in what other PvP game allows a bad player to survive a lot of damage whilst lying half dead on the ground without the correct resource to get back up again?

Feanor

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So in what other PvP game allows a bad player to survive a lot of damage whilst lying half dead on the ground without the correct resource to get back up again?

20k or 30k over 6 seconds is not a lot of damage.

WillhelmBlack

Feanor wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So in what other PvP game allows a bad player to survive a lot of damage whilst lying half dead on the ground without the correct resource to get back up again?

20k or 30k over 6 seconds is not a lot of damage.

So when one of their shields has gone, they can't cast another of the 3 large shields available to them at a much lower cost of the other player's 20-30k damage spells?

I think we've cracked it lads /thread!

Biro123

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So in what other PvP game allows a bad player to survive a lot of damage whilst lying half dead on the ground without the correct resource to get back up again?

I expect its the same game that allows you to stack for damage and hit one guy for 16k, but the next guy for only 1200.

The same game where 15 people can beat on one guy indefinitely as he just stands there holding the right mouse button.

The same game that lets you set up your best cc and timed burst to get your opponent down to 25% for him to hit one button and be back at full health.

The same game that lets you get an opponent to low health for him to suddenly disappear and come back 5 seconds later at full health.

The same game that lets you get an opponent to low health, to see him turn into mist, and escape around a corner taking no damage to heal up where you can do nothing at all to stop it.

The same game that can let you have almost constant uptime on really strong defensive ulti's.

Its probably that kind of game. (btw these are all bad players too - cos that's how these things work.. its never a decent player using his tools properly - its always a 'bad player' crutchng on broken mechanics.

Feanor

Your assumption was that the Sorc survived lying half dead on the ground without stamina to get up. Which means, he is CCed and OOS. If you can’t kill in that scenario ... well.

Majeure

Yes, they recently announced to ban the Sorcerer class from the game.

WillhelmBlack

Majeure wrote: »

Yes, they recently announced to ban the Sorcerer class from the game.

Haha!

Feanor

Majeure wrote: »

Yes, they recently announced to ban the Sorcerer class from the game.

Doesn’t matter. 70% of Cyrodiil are NBs and DKs with the odd Warden here and there anyway.

LukosCreyden

Why are people arguing in this thread? You are not going to change each others opinions. Accept that this is how the game is, leave sensible feedback in the relevant combat thread or shut up.

Biro123

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Why are people arguing in this thread? You are not going to change each others opinions. Accept that this is how the game is, leave sensible feedback in the relevant combat thread or shut up.

Cos harsh language is the strongest ability in the sorc toolkit nowadays - and definitely the only spammable! ...

TheDoomsdayMonster

With the nerf to Frags, there is no need to change the way shielding works; they are hard pressed to kill a well built character 1v1 nowadays...

So let them have their survival tools; all it does is delay the inevitable...

Biro123

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

With the nerf to Frags, there is no need to change the way shielding works; they are hard pressed to kill a well built character 1v1 nowadays...

So let them have their survival tools; all it does is delay the inevitable...

There are actually very strong builds using the new runecage, benefitting from frags not giving cc-immunity. Its only a matter of time, I think until more people figure them out and the complaints start. I honestly think they shouldn't have changed it.

pieratsos

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So in what other PvP game allows a bad player to survive a lot of damage whilst lying half dead on the ground without the correct resource to get back up again?

In the first video you are not really a better player than the sorc. Its kinda equal. You are playing the class with the weakest dmg on a setup with no dmg. I am sorry but anyone can take ur dmg like that except some squishy medium armor builds. He is shieldstacking u permablock u cant kill each other he does a mistake and u kill him in 2 seconds.

In the second video u went up against 3 sorcs, u killed two of them and not the third because of ur own mistakes. Its clear that the third one cant take ur dmg either. And thats while u are playing a build with no execute as well.

So what exactly do want? To go up against sorcs and kill them with a light attack?

Feanor

Biro123 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

With the nerf to Frags, there is no need to change the way shielding works; they are hard pressed to kill a well built character 1v1 nowadays...

So let them have their survival tools; all it does is delay the inevitable...

There are actually very strong builds using the new runecage, benefitting from frags not giving cc-immunity. Its only a matter of time, I think until more people figure them out and the complaints start. I honestly think they shouldn't have changed it.

Rune Cage is nice on players who don’t run immovable potions, are not used to the stun, or are hard pressed to break free when CCed. In other words - not good players. I had the pleasure to see ZS take on 40 AD PUGs with 12 yesterday. Not a single stun resulted in a kill, in most cases I couldn’t even cast it due to CC immunity.

It’s great on engaged or fleeing players, in other words, the perfect zerg skill.

MonoAlv96

Vesper_BR wrote: »

it's becamibg ridiculous.... Nerfing frags wasn't the solution... Fix the shields... Make them critable... Affected by mending or whatever you guys think of...
But fix it, it's breaking the game...

@ZOS_Wrobel

[Snip]. There are 2 options or you quit or you L2P, I have mained sorc since the start, we have been nerfed so much this patch I had to drop it.

You the type of guy that asks for nerf while snipe glitching in a Zerg, gtfo

[Edited to remove flame/bait]

MonoAlv96

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Bad sorcs are killable.. off course they are...
Like any other classes... But being killable it's not the same as balanced...
I've dueled and fought sorcs with my stam dk and mag dk... They are by far the most unbalanced class and hard to defeat... There's no trade off from offense to defense... That's.the problem... They can keep pressuring you even while taking insane damage... NBS can cloack but they can be taken if u slot detection pots... That's counter play that every player has access... Shield break aren't...

Stop shield stacking and sdjust it's values or make them critable... Problem solved

And btw have you ever played sorc brah? If not you don't even know what to bar swap is, or to *** time a burst with more than 2 *** skills.
You want to kill them,il tell you a secret:Invest some points on shattering blows and you are done my friend, unless you got some type of problem.

Biro123

Feanor wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

With the nerf to Frags, there is no need to change the way shielding works; they are hard pressed to kill a well built character 1v1 nowadays...

So let them have their survival tools; all it does is delay the inevitable...

There are actually very strong builds using the new runecage, benefitting from frags not giving cc-immunity. Its only a matter of time, I think until more people figure them out and the complaints start. I honestly think they shouldn't have changed it.

Rune Cage is nice on players who don’t run immovable potions, are not used to the stun, or are hard pressed to break free when CCed. In other words - not good players. I had the pleasure to see ZS take on 40 AD PUGs with 12 yesterday. Not a single stun resulted in a kill, in most cases I couldn’t even cast it due to CC immunity.

It’s great on engaged or fleeing players, in other words, the perfect zerg skill.

I find the opposite. Due hordes of friendlies dishing out CC-immunity, I find its much more potent when you can control their cc-immunity - ie are alone or outnumbered.

I mean 40 pugs vs ZS - they're gonna have permanent cc-immunity - and they run so tight together that you cannot target the same player consistently enough to set up a good single-target burst.. (not to mention their purges/heals and high-health setups). That's just not a good example.

I find it VERY useful to pick off individuals you spot with no cc-immunity, and timing the burst with their breakfree, and if your burst is big enough makes it very hard to counter.
I'm still tweaking the build and getting used to playing it -along with trying different variations - but its very promising so far.

WillhelmBlack

pieratsos wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So in what other PvP game allows a bad player to survive a lot of damage whilst lying half dead on the ground without the correct resource to get back up again?

In the first video you are not really a better player than the sorc. Its kinda equal. You are playing the class with the weakest dmg on a setup with no dmg. I am sorry but anyone can take ur dmg like that except some squishy medium armor builds. He is shieldstacking u permablock u cant kill each other he does a mistake and u kill him in 2 seconds.

In the second video u went up against 3 sorcs, u killed two of them and not the third because of ur own mistakes. Its clear that the third one cant take ur dmg either. And thats while u are playing a build with no execute as well.

So what exactly do want? To go up against sorcs and kill them with a light attack?

That DK has 3900 spell damage, almost 40k Magicka and Light Armour. I built it to be very strong against Sorcs hence the use of Reflective Plate and the 3000+ mag regen. Still isn't enough, the fight was only won because the player must've looked at a text on his phone or something. It's not usual for a Sorc like him to not have his shields up and I pounced on the chance hoping that by the time I'd leapt to him he hadn't cast a ward again.

And no... I want Healing Ward and Conjured Ward unable to stack. Shield stacking could still be obtained through use of Annulment and a bit more skill by the player. Obviously, then I'd want Sorc to gain some of its burst and mobility back to make the class more enjoyable again. Like I've said previously, ZOS nerfed the life out of Sorc and its really quite dull and a bit of a chore to play. OP yes, because of the stacking issue but a shadow of its former self from beta days where they could self heal like crazy and fly around kiting everything, a very fun playstyle.

I can't remember when ZOS decided to adopt the shield stacking way to play Sorc but it wasn't always like that. You once wasn't able to cast a damage shield on yourself if you already had one active. Before 1.5 I think, good times.

Biro123

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So in what other PvP game allows a bad player to survive a lot of damage whilst lying half dead on the ground without the correct resource to get back up again?

In the first video you are not really a better player than the sorc. Its kinda equal. You are playing the class with the weakest dmg on a setup with no dmg. I am sorry but anyone can take ur dmg like that except some squishy medium armor builds. He is shieldstacking u permablock u cant kill each other he does a mistake and u kill him in 2 seconds.

In the second video u went up against 3 sorcs, u killed two of them and not the third because of ur own mistakes. Its clear that the third one cant take ur dmg either. And thats while u are playing a build with no execute as well.

So what exactly do want? To go up against sorcs and kill them with a light attack?

That DK has 3900 spell damage, almost 40k Magicka and Light Armour. I built it to be very strong against Sorcs hence the use of Reflective Plate and the 3000+ mag regen. Still isn't enough, the fight was only won because the player must've looked at a text on his phone or something. It's not usual for a Sorc like him to not have his shields up and I pounced on the chance hoping that by the time I'd leapt to him he hadn't cast a ward again.

And no... I want Healing Ward and Conjured Ward unable to stack. Shield stacking could still be obtained through use of Annulment and a bit more skill by the player. Obviously, then I'd want Sorc to gain some of its burst and mobility back to make the class more enjoyable again. Like I've said previously, ZOS nerfed the life out of Sorc and its really quite dull and a bit of a chore to play. OP yes, because of the stacking issue but a shadow of its former self from beta days where they could self heal like crazy and fly around kiting everything, a very fun playstyle.

I can't remember when ZOS decided to adopt the shield stacking way to play Sorc but it wasn't always like that. You once wasn't able to cast a damage shield on yourself if you already had one active. Before 1.5 I think, good times.

I don't think healing ward is the best heal for sorcs anymore... Haven't used it for ages.

Strider__Roshin

Truthfully, all DoTs that stick to a target should ignore damage shields. This includes attacks such as burning embers, Dawnbreaker, and poison injection. This does not include DoTs such as elemental blockade or caltrops.

Feanor

Daus wrote: »

Truthfully, all DoTs that stick to a target should ignore damage shields. This includes attacks such as burning embers, Dawnbreaker, and poison injection. This does not include DoTs such as elemental blockade or caltrops.

Sometimes I’m really glad ZOS doesn’t listen to feedback on the forum. Most ideas are totally atrocious.

Lord-Otto

@Waffennacht
@Lexxypwns
@Biro123

And also @ the other experienced sorcs here (Feanor, Chilly, ..., can't tag you all)


Since the thread is superfluous to begin with, I wanna ask you about a different matter.
With the buff to Rune Cage, I am missing a skill slot. I also wanna keep Dark Conversion, so I dropped Mines for the time being. I am definitely enjoying the CC and sustain, but I am missing my Mines somewhat. They help keep those pesky snare-dodge-run-through-you builds in check. I'm on console, you know how awkward slow turn speed while trying to press for buttons and pursuing those Kung Fu monkeys is.

Say, if I were to consider dropping Harness or Healing, what would you think about it?
Regarding Harness, it is somewhat useless when 1vX, gotta spam the stronger shields more, unless I get an LoS. It's also a resource waste against stamina players. But it is absolutely fantastic against magical builds, obviously. Almost mandatory, to not lose the resource advantage.
Healing Ward is super unreliable and rarely actually heals me in emergencies, but it is a strong defensive move, it can help allies and it can't be interrupted like Conversion.

Hm.
You got any thoughts or experiences?
Thank you in advance, have a cookie for your efforts!
(^.^)-O
It's chocolate chip. Not raisins. Why do people even make raisin cookies, what a waste! Errr, I'm getting off-topic, I fear...

ak_pvp

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Truthfully, all DoTs that stick to a target should ignore damage shields. This includes attacks such as burning embers, Dawnbreaker, and poison injection. This does not include DoTs such as elemental blockade or caltrops.

Sometimes I’m really glad ZOS doesn’t listen to feedback on the forum. Most ideas are totally atrocious.

Yes, especially the "shields are fine, everything else is OP drivel"

If a dot is cast on a target whilst a shield is down, it should attack the health directly. After all shields aren't supposed to be extra health. It would give the dot a bone since they are really only 1v1 worth.

Strider__Roshin

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Truthfully, all DoTs that stick to a target should ignore damage shields. This includes attacks such as burning embers, Dawnbreaker, and poison injection. This does not include DoTs such as elemental blockade or caltrops.

Sometimes I’m really glad ZOS doesn’t listen to feedback on the forum. Most ideas are totally atrocious.

So how does covering your body with a magical shield stop the effects of DoTs such as poison injection? It's an internal ailment. If you can shield it then you should also be able to dodge, and block DoT ticks.

pieratsos

Biro123 wrote: »

I find it VERY useful to pick off individuals you spot with no cc-immunity, and timing the burst with their breakfree, and if your burst is big enough makes it very hard to counter.
I'm still tweaking the build and getting used to playing it -along with trying different variations - but its very promising so far.

That is assuming your burst is good enough to one shot people which is highly unlikely these days with everyone running tanks.

The frag cc gave a much needed pressure on a class that is severely lacking in that aspect. You cant just simply load people with dots and then suddenly meteor rune cage to finish them like a DK would. (not that this works anymore for DKs either but that the idea). You dont have the pressure on a sorc. The frag cc was one of the few things that could pressure people by constantly cc them, forcing them to block, hurt their stamina, force them on defensive, break rotations, give you space, turn a situation around, faster combos etc. It wasnt just a simple cc. The frag cc did so much more than just a simple cc for a sorc.

Abilities synergize different on different classes. You cant just simply judge them and call them OP or balanced by just reading tooltips. This is why every single one of those clueless people called it an enormous buff. Because they dont play sorc and they dont have a clue about how it works. And now they are all wondering why sorcs prefer flame reach over rune cage when they were already told that this is the way it would go. Or all the other clueless people that thought the frag nerf is good when they were told that it wont fix anything about sorcs and the nerf sorcs threads will continue. And here we are in yet another nerf sorc thread because the frag nerf didnt do jack sh*t in terms of fixing what was broken.

Rune cage is only useful on DW builds. The only thing rune cage does is help kill squishy people easier which is really really bad considering sorcs could already do that fairly easy and now its just another zerg tool cause its just another stupid ability ignoring mechanics. Seems to be the trend of 2017. Change abilities and make them ignore mechanics.

Rune cage buff/frag nerf is easily one of the worst and meaningless changes alongside the shards nerf, scales stupid "buff" and stupid fear nerf. Those changes made zero sense and they were 100% off their intended target.

P.S. Sorry for the rant. Wasnt meant for you personally, i know that you play sorc. Just wanted to say those things cause these threads are seriously getting boring.

Feanor

ak_pvp wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Truthfully, all DoTs that stick to a target should ignore damage shields. This includes attacks such as burning embers, Dawnbreaker, and poison injection. This does not include DoTs such as elemental blockade or caltrops.

Sometimes I’m really glad ZOS doesn’t listen to feedback on the forum. Most ideas are totally atrocious.

Yes, especially the "shields are fine, everything else is OP drivel"

If a dot is cast on a target whilst a shield is down, it should attack the health directly. After all shields aren't supposed to be extra health. It would give the dot a bone since they are really only 1v1 worth.

Totally fine if you add a burst heal other than the Matriarch without a cast time.