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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A
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FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »i get poeple feel strongly on this and i get why poeple spoke out about this i can understand the frustration poeple have , but at the end of the day miat and myself made this video to try and get a response about it, witch we did and thank you to all of those that helped us do this. i dont think the hate and insults towards me and miat were not needed , at the end of the day we are all gamers that want the game we have sank so many hours in to , get better and funner for every one , thats the goel guys and dont forget it please
As a community we are taking away ur right to say “at the end of the day” you have abuse the hell out of this filler statement that offers nothing to the conversation.
I would make this a drinking game but at the end of the day I would end up in the hospital.5 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »JonnytheKing wrote: »i get poeple feel strongly on this and i get why poeple spoke out about this i can understand the frustration poeple have , but at the end of the day miat and myself made this video to try and get a response about it, witch we did and thank you to all of those that helped us do this. i dont think the hate and insults towards me and miat were not needed , at the end of the day we are all gamers that want the game we have sank so many hours in to , get better and funner for every one , thats the goel guys and dont forget it please
As a community we are taking away ur right to say “at the end of the day” you have abuse the hell out of this filler statement that offers nothing to the conversation.
I would make this a drinking game but at the end of the day I would end up in the hospital.
i used it twice lol , What are you guys running out of stuff to *** about ?TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Facts are facts, I agree. But when the context is being ignored, they are useless. Ok, so we can't technically call this a cheat. Fine. But this means jack *** in terms of how this addon is affecting the game. Why do you live inside such a rabbit hole? Or do you really believe Miats point was just to show to us it isn't a cheat, and that he's not also trying to justify his cancerous addon at the same time? If it was the former, this discussion would have been over a lot faster.JonnytheKing wrote: »JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
You loose all credibility when you label people as smart or dumb, depending on whether they agree with you or not.
lol there is facts and opinions, its got nothing to do with them agreeing with me, and all so when poeple act in a toxic way they all so lose credibility
Truth is, the guy (and many of his supporters) simply hate snipe ganks and losing to stealthed attacks. I mean, we even have posts from people that originally said they thought the functionalities of this addon were not okay and going too far, but AFTER they tried it suddenly said they enjoyed the addon because it helped them against gankers. The bias is painfully clear, just stop acting like you come here to argue facts, because you are not. You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times.
4 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭
Facts are facts, I agree. But when the context is being ignored, they are useless. Ok, so we can't technically call this a cheat. Fine. But this means jack *** in terms of how this addon is affecting the game. Why do you live inside such a rabbit hole? Or do you really believe Miats point was just to show to us it isn't a cheat, and that he's not also trying to justify his cancerous addon at the same time? If it was the former, this discussion would have been over a lot faster.JonnytheKing wrote: »JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
You loose all credibility when you label people as smart or dumb, depending on whether they agree with you or not.
lol there is facts and opinions, its got nothing to do with them agreeing with me, and all so when poeple act in a toxic way they all so lose credibility
Truth is, the guy (and many of his supporters) simply hate snipe ganks and losing to stealthed attacks. I mean, we even have posts from people that originally said they thought the functionalities of this addon were not okay and going too far, but AFTER they tried it suddenly said they enjoyed the addon because it helped them against gankers. The bias is painfully clear, just stop acting like you come here to argue facts, because you are not. You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times.
If you haven't noticed, I've been trying to bring cheating to the forefront, hoping that ZoS would do something if enough of the community got behind it. I'd be the 1st person to say something about cheating but the fact is, it's not, ZoS does NOT consider it cheating but thats not saying that the addon is good for the game and ZoS needed to do something about it, hence why this video was made and because of this video and forum post ZoS ARE looking into it , but i have also talked to a lot of people that think the addon improves their time on the game, this addon in no way affects 95% of the players because it doesn't change anything for large scale pvp, people have overreacted to this and missed the point of the video, which was to say that it was in ZoS' hands and they needed to do something and as far as this statement goes "You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times. " I have no idea what you mean? my hidden motives lol and my ass put in to the mud too many times, WTF lol so once agian i dont no why people are hating on me when im just trying to help the community. im not the bad guy hear and never was, i set out to do something and we did , Zos is changing and it seems like every one s still not happy.TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp3 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭Hopefully zos will make sure miat is useless and pvp will be semi-fair once more.
It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.6 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hopefully zos will make sure miat is useless and pvp will be semi-fair once more.
Yeah. Once Miat’s is gone people can get back to their rightful slumber again and believe that everything you see in the game is “skill”. Because we killed the main culprit for good, right?
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.7 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭
this is goldTWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp3 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭wow, for a few reasons.
- that there are still so many people claiming it is cheating. (technically (which is sufficient) it isn't).
- people perceiving the addon as the issue here, while the API might be to a certain degree (you probably should wait for their fixes as you might simply not like what you might get). Even without this particular addon people could use such functionality privately.
- yet, after like 20 threads with thousands of pages, people have no idea what a mod, an addon or an additional application is (while it has been explained several times, but i guess that would require reading (and understanding) other posts instead of just writing a comment). still they think their opinion fits reality and are capable of judging everything perfectly while not really adding anything useful to the discussion.
- ZOS made a statement that they will look into the API. Might be a good thing, but I doubt their "fixes" will do any good. I think the last time they made some changes it was a mess. as in general with fixes and updates. be careful what you wish for.
Anyway, @Dorrino keep up the great work. We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR4 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭InvitationNotFound wrote: »wow, for a few reasons.
- that there are still so many people claiming it is cheating. (technically (which is sufficient) it isn't).
- people perceiving the addon as the issue here, while the API might be to a certain degree (you probably should wait for their fixes as you might simply not like what you might get). Even without this particular addon people could use such functionality privately.
- yet, after like 20 threads with thousands of pages, people have no idea what a mod, an addon or an additional application is (while it has been explained several times, but i guess that would require reading (and understanding) other posts instead of just writing a comment). still they think their opinion fits reality and are capable of judging everything perfectly while not really adding anything useful to the discussion.
- ZOS made a statement that they will look into the API. Might be a good thing, but I doubt their "fixes" will do any good. I think the last time they made some changes it was a mess. as in general with fixes and updates. be careful what you wish for.
Anyway, @Dorrino keep up the great work.
well said mateTWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So @DDuke what’s next on your crusade agenda? Seeing opponent health bars? Gives away a lot of information too.
Health bars? Nothing that's not supposed to be there. Some games actually don't give you precise information of opponents' health until you have high enough "perception" skill or cast an ability. While I love the concept, ESO is not one of those games and never was designed so.
No, next thing will be whatever loophole/workaround (aka exploit/cheat, Jonny) our dear addon author or anyone else finds in the API (or in game) to make other peoples' lives miserable by ruining their gameplay experience with a 3rd party cheat.
But this particular case is far from over yet. I'll want to see ZOS actually make those changes to the API before calling it.Edited by DDuke on October 23, 2017 11:11AM4 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
Because ? I mean what do You know about people who voted ? How do You know it was representative sample ? How do You know half of them wasnt console players or players who dont even know what term "add-on" means ? What do You know about this people experience with add-ons ? How much of this people is actually using them ? Also since it's open voting how can You know someone didnt asked firends to vote same as him ? I am not agaisnt results of this voting but lets be honest it's far from beeing reliable to the point it can mirror whole player base.
He owned you with math because you are uneducated...
That's Your opinion @Dredlord . My opinion is that the formula maybe is correct but not for type of voting we have here and for sure is not corresponding with "player base" opinion which I showed in 2 threads linked before can change drasticly in few hours even if there is same amount of people voting and almost the same options to choose from.
About education well saying to someone he is uneducated only shows Your level of education tbh. Also You dont have to be phd on something to think clearly and see something isnt adding up(with some exceptions ofc) and someone is trying to cover that with nice looking math which is simply not working in this particular subject and can be easily abolished because of that. I reccomend You to look at propability and learn what 95% confidence level means where You have small sample number comparing to whole population. if You have poll where 150 people tooked part in and lets say overall population of people in game is 150k , with 95% confidence level You have only 2% channce that results of voting are correct.
Most funny fact is when You'll read whole conversation You'll see funny fact that 1st he's saying that this poll represent whole player base and create whole theories based on that but few posts later despite that math he maded to prove it , he's calling the same rellevant voting , quote "insignificant online poll in ESO forums" . It's like owning Yourself.Edited by Juhasow on October 23, 2017 12:06PM1 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »
Facts are facts, I agree. But when the context is being ignored, they are useless. Ok, so we can't technically call this a cheat. Fine. But this means jack *** in terms of how this addon is affecting the game. Why do you live inside such a rabbit hole? Or do you really believe Miats point was just to show to us it isn't a cheat, and that he's not also trying to justify his cancerous addon at the same time? If it was the former, this discussion would have been over a lot faster.JonnytheKing wrote: »JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
You loose all credibility when you label people as smart or dumb, depending on whether they agree with you or not.
lol there is facts and opinions, its got nothing to do with them agreeing with me, and all so when poeple act in a toxic way they all so lose credibility
Truth is, the guy (and many of his supporters) simply hate snipe ganks and losing to stealthed attacks. I mean, we even have posts from people that originally said they thought the functionalities of this addon were not okay and going too far, but AFTER they tried it suddenly said they enjoyed the addon because it helped them against gankers. The bias is painfully clear, just stop acting like you come here to argue facts, because you are not. You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times.
If you haven't noticed, I've been trying to bring cheating to the forefront, hoping that ZoS would do something if enough of the community got behind it. I'd be the 1st person to say something about cheating but the fact is, it's not, ZoS does NOT consider it cheating but thats not saying that the addon is good for the game and ZoS needed to do something about it, hence why this video was made and because of this video and forum post ZoS ARE looking into it , but i have also talked to a lot of people that think the addon improves their time on the game, this addon in no way affects 95% of the players because it doesn't change anything for large scale pvp, people have overreacted to this and missed the point of the video, which was to say that it was in ZoS' hands and they needed to do something and as far as this statement goes "You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times. " I have no idea what you mean? my hidden motives lol and my ass put in to the mud too many times, WTF lol so once agian i dont no why people are hating on me when im just trying to help the community. im not the bad guy hear and never was, i set out to do something and we did , Zos is changing and it seems like every one s still not happy.
I think the main issue is that you have approached this situation from an objective standpoint, or at least you have put on a facade of doing so. When in reality anyone with a few brain cells and basic comprehension skills can see that you are in fact a supporter of the addon and want to defend it.
If you would be more honest about your bias towards the addon, then probably people would give you more credit. But people don't like to be lied to, or treated like they are stupid.
On the plus side I'm sure your channel has had more traffic since these events so it's not all that bad. People forget things like this fast anyway. In 1 month no one will even remember who you are, except those that actually watch your content.4 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭
As long as only select few people will use "other culprits" and not almost everyone you see in cyro i will be happy.It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.1 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »
Facts are facts, I agree. But when the context is being ignored, they are useless. Ok, so we can't technically call this a cheat. Fine. But this means jack *** in terms of how this addon is affecting the game. Why do you live inside such a rabbit hole? Or do you really believe Miats point was just to show to us it isn't a cheat, and that he's not also trying to justify his cancerous addon at the same time? If it was the former, this discussion would have been over a lot faster.JonnytheKing wrote: »JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
You loose all credibility when you label people as smart or dumb, depending on whether they agree with you or not.
lol there is facts and opinions, its got nothing to do with them agreeing with me, and all so when poeple act in a toxic way they all so lose credibility
Truth is, the guy (and many of his supporters) simply hate snipe ganks and losing to stealthed attacks. I mean, we even have posts from people that originally said they thought the functionalities of this addon were not okay and going too far, but AFTER they tried it suddenly said they enjoyed the addon because it helped them against gankers. The bias is painfully clear, just stop acting like you come here to argue facts, because you are not. You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times.
If you haven't noticed, I've been trying to bring cheating to the forefront, hoping that ZoS would do something if enough of the community got behind it. I'd be the 1st person to say something about cheating but the fact is, it's not, ZoS does NOT consider it cheating but thats not saying that the addon is good for the game and ZoS needed to do something about it, hence why this video was made and because of this video and forum post ZoS ARE looking into it , but i have also talked to a lot of people that think the addon improves their time on the game, this addon in no way affects 95% of the players because it doesn't change anything for large scale pvp, people have overreacted to this and missed the point of the video, which was to say that it was in ZoS' hands and they needed to do something and as far as this statement goes "You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times. " I have no idea what you mean? my hidden motives lol and my ass put in to the mud too many times, WTF lol so once agian i dont no why people are hating on me when im just trying to help the community. im not the bad guy hear and never was, i set out to do something and we did , Zos is changing and it seems like every one s still not happy.
I think the main issue is that you have approached this situation from an objective standpoint, or at least you have put on a facade of doing so. When in reality anyone with a few brain cells and basic comprehension skills can see that you are in fact a supporter of the addon and want to defend it.
If you would be more honest about your bias towards the addon, then probably people would give you more credit. But people don't like to be lied to, or treated like they are stupid.
On the plus side I'm sure your channel has had more traffic since these events so it's not all that bad. People forget things like this fast anyway. In 1 month no one will even remember who you are, except those that actually watch your content.
And he sounds like an egotistical jerk in all his comments. Like he did something super amazing that people been discussing since the start of this addOn, but yh it’s all him. Thank you, ur an amazing advocate for the community and we all owe him a debt of gratitude. make sure to like his page for fixing the game people!Edited by FloppyTouch on October 23, 2017 11:44AM3 -
olivesforge✭✭✭✭
If you understand this, you know how meaningless the Miat's argument is, and how it detracts from the actual problem. What's going on is nothing compared to private add-ons and other... things.PCNA | Aldmeri Dominion
OlivesForge / Swiss Army Templar | Twink of Insanity / Gankblade | Olivesisnotonfire / Annoying Sorc | E. Angus / Magicka Pigeon-Thrower | K. Angus / Stamina Pigeon-Thrower
Personage of note in:
Dominant Dominion | Ethereal Traders Union | Knights of the Istari | CoC | Cyrodiil FG4 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Johnny, I think youre discussing and adressing the problems just fine and in a constructive manner, and I also believe the points you raise have been in an orderly and constructive way. Miats himself, on the other hand, I have a problem with. In particular how in all the discussions about his addon over the year(s) always point out he want proof and examples on how this addon affects gameplay directly. WHen being given such proofs and examples, he blindly ignores them telling himself and his followers there ARE no examples, or labels them as false because they dont correspond with how HE decides the game should be played. Until he actually ackowledes the issues at hand and at least TRIES to contribute in the discussion in a constructive way, instead of his usual word twisting and covering up facts way, he will get all the rage he gets and tbh, deserved moreso. Miats has a problem, and that problem is he truly believes he is infailable, and everyone who doesnt acknowledge it are wrong. Theres been posters going into long deductive discussions with him but ultimately no matter how much proof, examples, explanation or reasoning given, his ultimate answer will always be "theres no proof, no examples", its called Trumpism... How can you even pretend, Jonny, such a way of reasoning will lead to anything but frustration among the more sinister ones and pure bile from those with less patience...Edited by killimandrosb16_ESO on October 23, 2017 11:50AM2
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Bam_Bam✭✭✭✭✭
✭as of right now, Miat's addon was reviewed by ZOS about a year ago when it was alerting people to stealthed enemy players. that feature was removed the other features remained. it is very much like the pvp version of raid notifier.
with that being said, no its not considered a cheat or an exploit. there is a serious moral grey area concerning this addon with people on both sides of the fence and unfortunately the sole determination is up to ZOS.
whether you use the addon or not, unless otherwise stated by ZOS, its not bannable and wont jeopardize your account standing with ZOS. Opinions aside, this is the objective stance on this addon and its usage.
______________________________________________________________________________
With that being said: I personally enjoy the several Quality of Life improvements it adds to the game such as the "Press 'Q' to resurrect at nearest location; the auto accept BG queue; and the player counter.
those are the only three features of the addon i use. I found the other features quite intrusive. I also feel like from a player skill perspective, it severely diminishes the need for focus and awareness from the player utilizing that feature of the addon. If they never remove the addon, then i guess that concern is moot. but if they do remove that feature of the addon, those utilizing it are gimping themselves considerably.
This is the best comment I've read.
People don't realise the features ofthe addon are completely indepent entities - you don't haveto use the addon - its a choice. Oryou choose to use the addon andnever get hit from stealth. Choice, again.
FWIW I love NB's (I have 6!!!) and this addon has saved many lives in its "mmmmm that's proper sketchy" way lol. I use the addon BUT I use it for the eccelent status reports. Keeps/recs underattack, % and other really excellent features.
In fact, if Dorino had never added the stealth warning thing EVERYONE would have this addon installed. So in some ways,Dorino has shot himself in the foot and is getting attacked(which is like, beyond ironic - maybe he didn't have the addon installed :P ).
If you don't want to use the sketchy warnings from stealth thingy, disable it. But the rest of the addon is fantastic and very well made.Joined January 2014
PC EU - PvE & BGs & PvP (Vivec)
Grand Master Crafter
#DiscordHypeSquad
Stream
Lims Kragm'a
Bam Bam Bara1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭as of right now, Miat's addon was reviewed by ZOS about a year ago when it was alerting people to stealthed enemy players. that feature was removed the other features remained. it is very much like the pvp version of raid notifier.
with that being said, no its not considered a cheat or an exploit. there is a serious moral grey area concerning this addon with people on both sides of the fence and unfortunately the sole determination is up to ZOS.
whether you use the addon or not, unless otherwise stated by ZOS, its not bannable and wont jeopardize your account standing with ZOS. Opinions aside, this is the objective stance on this addon and its usage.
______________________________________________________________________________
With that being said: I personally enjoy the several Quality of Life improvements it adds to the game such as the "Press 'Q' to resurrect at nearest location; the auto accept BG queue; and the player counter.
those are the only three features of the addon i use. I found the other features quite intrusive. I also feel like from a player skill perspective, it severely diminishes the need for focus and awareness from the player utilizing that feature of the addon. If they never remove the addon, then i guess that concern is moot. but if they do remove that feature of the addon, those utilizing it are gimping themselves considerably.
This is the best comment I've read.
People don't realise the features ofthe addon are completely indepent entities - you don't haveto use the addon - its a choice. Oryou choose to use the addon andnever get hit from stealth. Choice, again.
FWIW I love NB's (I have 6!!!) and this addon has saved many lives in its "mmmmm that's proper sketchy" way lol. I use the addon BUT I use it for the eccelent status reports. Keeps/recs underattack, % and other really excellent features.
In fact, if Dorino had never added the stealth warning thing EVERYONE would have this addon installed. So in some ways,Dorino has shot himself in the foot and is getting attacked(which is like, beyond ironic - maybe he didn't have the addon installed :P ).
If you don't want to use the sketchy warnings from stealth thingy, disable it. But the rest of the addon is fantastic and very well made.
I don't think that's entirely accurate (bolded part). I'm sure you know this - but for the benefit of those who don't(and there seem to be a LOT of misconceptions about his addon) - the only (and not insignificant) impact this has on stealth attacks is when there is a delay between that ability being 'started' and it hitting.
So if you open with snipe, you will be alerted that someone is casting a snipe at you before the arrow leaves their bow - and before they appear. This is also the case when opening with ambush (since the gap-close does have a small delay while you 'jump' to the target) - but that window is much smaller and still needs quick reactions.
But if you opened in melee range with incap or surprise attack - well, those two hit instantly, and you come out of stealth as they hit - so miats doesn't give any advanced warning in that instance.
So the point is - you will still get hit from stealth if the attacker knows how to work around the addon.
Just clarifying :-)
Minalan owes me a beer.
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Rickter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think this thread, and threads like this are only going to encourage addon makers to keep their addons more private, instead of releasing to the public.RickterESO
PC | NA | DC
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think this thread, and threads like this are only going to encourage addon makers to keep their addons more private, instead of releasing to the public.
/agree.
This is one of the most positive things that miat did - make it public.. Because I'm pretty sure the functionality was around 'privately' for a good while beforehand.
Given the flak he's had to endure from the community, I can't see any other addon-makers going public with anything like this again... Instead, they will just keep it for personal and friends use, maybe mention it to the ZOS API developers, who won't take it seriously because there isn't any outcry on the forums (since hardly anybody is aware of it).Minalan owes me a beer.
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Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
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Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭this whole thread (and all others) are only scratching the surface and aren't discussing potential issues in any regard.
Yet Dorrino is being blamed while actually doing the community a favor (in both ways, spreading awareness and providing an awesome addon).
And people seem to be fine with it.
Anyway, the addon is great, not a cheat. Yet, the API change might be good. We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
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Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
Because ? I mean what do You know about people who voted ? How do You know it was representative sample ? How do You know half of them wasnt console players or players who dont even know what term "add-on" means ? What do You know about this people experience with add-ons ? How much of this people is actually using them ? Also since it's open voting how can You know someone didnt asked firends to vote same as him ? I am not agaisnt results of this voting but lets be honest it's far from beeing reliable to the point it can mirror whole player base.
He owned you with math because you are uneducated...
That's Your opinion @Dredlord . My opinion is that the formula maybe is correct but not for type of voting we have here and for sure is not corresponding with "player base" opinion which I showed in 2 threads linked before can change drasticly in few hours even if there is same amount of people voting and almost the same options to choose from.
Here's why you can't take polls like the two you linked seriously:- One looks like its written by a 3rd grader based on all the capslocks & spelling errors, while the other still has those spelling errors but is better written. How you phrase your question has a lot to do with results.
- Your two polls feature different number of options (one lacking "Sanctum Ophidia" entirely), which again skews the results.
- Most importantly, both of your polls have extremely small sample sizes (49 & 50 votes respectively). This gives you a whopping 14% margin of error.
About education well saying to someone he is uneducated only shows Your level of education tbh. Also You dont have to be phd on something to think clearly and see something isnt adding up(with some exceptions ofc) and someone is trying to cover that with nice looking math which is simply not working in this particular subject and can be easily abolished because of that. I reccomend You to look at propability and learn what 95% confidence level means where You have small sample number comparing to whole population. if You have poll where 150 people tooked part in and lets say overall population of people in game is 150k , with 95% confidence level You have only 2% channce that results of voting are correct.
95% confidence level=95% likelihood/probability. I suggest you read up on how polling & margin of error work.
It is very possible to gauge public opinion from just a small sample size, that's how pretty much every poll in the world works.
You seem to be confusing a poll with a census.Most funny fact is when You'll read whole conversation You'll see funny fact that 1st he's saying that this poll represent whole player base and create whole theories based on that but few posts later despite that math he maded to prove it , he's calling the same rellevant voting , quote "insignificant online poll in ESO forums" . It's like owning Yourself.
Insignificant as in unlikely to achieve anything (or cause people to manipulate/brigade it as it is an online snap poll), not insignificant as in inaccurate - there is a difference.1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Thanks for the selective reply. Go read my 1st paragraph again and try again. As for your questions... tell me why else would people use this specific addons function and advocate it, other than to help them counter stealth attack mechanics? I have been following this discussion for a long time now and this source of bias in just painfully obvious. Don't even try to deny it. The "it ain't cheating" argument is just a way for these people to sound objective. But this argument doesn't go up when you consider the context of the game. Again, see my 1st paragraph for this point.JonnytheKing wrote: »
Facts are facts, I agree. But when the context is being ignored, they are useless. Ok, so we can't technically call this a cheat. Fine. But this means jack *** in terms of how this addon is affecting the game. Why do you live inside such a rabbit hole? Or do you really believe Miats point was just to show to us it isn't a cheat, and that he's not also trying to justify his cancerous addon at the same time? If it was the former, this discussion would have been over a lot faster.JonnytheKing wrote: »JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
You loose all credibility when you label people as smart or dumb, depending on whether they agree with you or not.
lol there is facts and opinions, its got nothing to do with them agreeing with me, and all so when poeple act in a toxic way they all so lose credibility
Truth is, the guy (and many of his supporters) simply hate snipe ganks and losing to stealthed attacks. I mean, we even have posts from people that originally said they thought the functionalities of this addon were not okay and going too far, but AFTER they tried it suddenly said they enjoyed the addon because it helped them against gankers. The bias is painfully clear, just stop acting like you come here to argue facts, because you are not. You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times.
If you haven't noticed, I've been trying to bring cheating to the forefront, hoping that ZoS would do something if enough of the community got behind it. I'd be the 1st person to say something about cheating but the fact is, it's not, ZoS does NOT consider it cheating but thats not saying that the addon is good for the game and ZoS needed to do something about it, hence why this video was made and because of this video and forum post ZoS ARE looking into it , but i have also talked to a lot of people that think the addon improves their time on the game, this addon in no way affects 95% of the players because it doesn't change anything for large scale pvp, people have overreacted to this and missed the point of the video, which was to say that it was in ZoS' hands and they needed to do something and as far as this statement goes "You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times. " I have no idea what you mean? my hidden motives lol and my ass put in to the mud too many times, WTF lol so once agian i dont no why people are hating on me when im just trying to help the community. im not the bad guy hear and never was, i set out to do something and we did , Zos is changing and it seems like every one s still not happy.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think this thread, and threads like this are only going to encourage addon makers to keep their addons more private, instead of releasing to the public.
There is no way to make something exploitative/abusive public without causing a public outroar about it.
Addon developers should work towards the overall well-being of the game, not seek to "balance" the game in place of the developers.InvitationNotFound wrote: »this whole thread (and all others) are only scratching the surface and aren't discussing potential issues in any regard.
Yet Dorrino is being blamed while actually doing the community a favor (in both ways, spreading awareness and providing an awesome addon).
Yeah, such an "awesome" addon. I think it has been explained about a billion times why this addon isn't "awesome" (or atleast the combat notifications part).
The reason Dorrino & people like you are being blamed is because you're actually defending something that's killing the game for many people.
Raising awareness is one thing, defending is another.InvitationNotFound wrote: »And people seem to be fine with it. Anyway, the addon is great, not a cheat. Yet, the API change might be good.
"It's not a cheat because I like it"
That's not really how the world works.
If abusing other bugs/flaws in game code/engine are considered exploiting/cheating, so is this. No double standards.Edited by DDuke on October 23, 2017 12:47PM0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »
Facts are facts, I agree. But when the context is being ignored, they are useless. Ok, so we can't technically call this a cheat. Fine. But this means jack *** in terms of how this addon is affecting the game. Why do you live inside such a rabbit hole? Or do you really believe Miats point was just to show to us it isn't a cheat, and that he's not also trying to justify his cancerous addon at the same time? If it was the former, this discussion would have been over a lot faster.JonnytheKing wrote: »JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
You loose all credibility when you label people as smart or dumb, depending on whether they agree with you or not.
lol there is facts and opinions, its got nothing to do with them agreeing with me, and all so when poeple act in a toxic way they all so lose credibility
Truth is, the guy (and many of his supporters) simply hate snipe ganks and losing to stealthed attacks. I mean, we even have posts from people that originally said they thought the functionalities of this addon were not okay and going too far, but AFTER they tried it suddenly said they enjoyed the addon because it helped them against gankers. The bias is painfully clear, just stop acting like you come here to argue facts, because you are not. You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times.
If you haven't noticed, I've been trying to bring cheating to the forefront, hoping that ZoS would do something if enough of the community got behind it. I'd be the 1st person to say something about cheating but the fact is, it's not, ZoS does NOT consider it cheating but thats not saying that the addon is good for the game and ZoS needed to do something about it, hence why this video was made and because of this video and forum post ZoS ARE looking into it , but i have also talked to a lot of people that think the addon improves their time on the game, this addon in no way affects 95% of the players because it doesn't change anything for large scale pvp, people have overreacted to this and missed the point of the video, which was to say that it was in ZoS' hands and they needed to do something and as far as this statement goes "You are using it as a veil to cover up your hidden motives and personal frustration from getting your sorry ass put into the dirt too many times. " I have no idea what you mean? my hidden motives lol and my ass put in to the mud too many times, WTF lol so once agian i dont no why people are hating on me when im just trying to help the community. im not the bad guy hear and never was, i set out to do something and we did , Zos is changing and it seems like every one s still not happy.
Thanks for the selective reply. Go read my 1st paragraph again and try again. As for your questions... tell me why else would people use this specific addons function and advocate it, other than to help them counter stealth attack mechanics? I have been following this discussion for a long time now and this source of bias in just painfully obvious. Don't even try to deny it. The "it ain't cheating" argument is just a way for these people to sound objective. But this argument doesn't go up when you consider the context of the game. Again, see my 1st paragraph for this point.
Since you asked...
I use it because:
1. I came to the conclusion that pretty much everyone else does after seeing so many frags dodged from behind - and didn't want to be at a disadvantage
2. Turns out I like a lot of the other info it gives (3d keep/resource icons, camp locality)
3. I didn't use it for stealth protection (I have defensive rune for that) - but for clear alerts while in the middle of a many vs many - especially when the sound goes off... (good old ZOS)
I advocate it because:
1. Well, I don't. I held out for a long time after this was common knowledge before finally installing it. It was just way to obvious to a DW sorc how prevalent its use was.
2. And yes.. 'It aint cheating' is a valid argument. I say 'It aint cheating' because I honestly believe that it aint cheating. Its not because I like the alerts it provides - as a DW magsorc, I would very much like for more of my frags to hit - and therefore for this level of alerting to not be possible. But I say it aint cheating because it aint cheating. ZOS have had plenty of opportunity to come out and clarify.
There's a difference between arguing to clarify what the current state IS vs arguing for how you want that state to be. Please don't confuse them. Just because someone says it isn't cheating doesn't automatically believe that they think it should be in game. I don't think costumes are cheating - but think they shouldn't be in game..
Please don't make assumptions about people's motives.
Edited by Biro123 on October 23, 2017 1:14PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
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Sav72✭✭✭✭✭Its a hack, being warned about incoming damage or abilities from other players is stupid.
I wonder how long he has being using this hack before he released it to the public.
And.......
I wonder what other hacks he is using that he has not released to the public, yet?
Kind of sad really, I have to cheat to win, to feel better.........
Savoifair, EP NB
If you break something, you can glue it back together and fix it, but, it will always be broken...3 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this thread, and threads like this are only going to encourage addon makers to keep their addons more private, instead of releasing to the public.
There is no way to make something exploitative/abusive public without causing a public outroar about it.
Addon developers should work towards the overall well-being of the game, not seek to "balance" the game in place of the developers.InvitationNotFound wrote: »this whole thread (and all others) are only scratching the surface and aren't discussing potential issues in any regard.
Yet Dorrino is being blamed while actually doing the community a favor (in both ways, spreading awareness and providing an awesome addon).
Yeah, such an "awesome" addon. I think it has been explained about a billion times why this addon isn't "awesome" (or atleast the combat notifications part).
The reason Dorrino & people like you are being blamed is because you're actually defending something that's killing the game for many people.
Raising awareness is one thing, defending is another.InvitationNotFound wrote: »And people seem to be fine with it. Anyway, the addon is great, not a cheat. Yet, the API change might be good.
"It's not a cheat because I like it"
That's not really how the world works.
If abusing other bugs/flaws in game code/engine are considered exploiting/cheating, so is this. No double standards.
Here we go again I guess
From a technical standpoint it isn't. I've linked the ToS before in other threads and explained to you already why it isn't. I already told you that I don't really care about that feature of the addon, I even gave you hints to directly contact the right person at ZOS and how to do so.
What you probably didn't get here is that your argument of "It's not a cheat because I like it" is the same as "It's a cheat because I don't like it". You know, that's not really how the world works. It has nothing to do with a discussion at all. All you do is saying that what you believe or would like to see is how it is. Try to counter arguments. You are very well aware of my arguments and points I've made in previous threads. Yet, your arguments are weak, if there are any at all (can't really find anything in your previous post). And again, don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying anyone has to like the current API and how it works. I'm not saying i do. But yet, it simply isn't cheating. It does what it is exactly supposed to do. It isn't a bug and never was. The function exactly did what it was designed for. Of course, they are going to review if their design was appropriate, but I personally wouldn't expect too much change there. But in the current state, their statement is that they are not comfortable with some things (what ever that means). It is like the Wrobler isn't comfortable with dark exchange and wants to make a few changes in an update so it really feels awesome for the players. To your logic, who ever used dark exchange before cheats because they reworked it. Your logic is flawed. You simply can't compare the API with the mundus stone exploit or something like that. It simply doesn't work by the definition of the different things and aspects we have here.
The other thing you do is criticize my opinion of this addon. I'm specifically talking about the addon and not the issue you're having with the API. Did you check what the addon is capable of respectively what features it is adding? Did you know that you can disable the feature you don't like and enjoy everything else of the addon? Yet, it isn't awesome because some people do not like one of its features?
And again, you aren't arguing. Who explained it about a billion times? The same 10 players here on the forums? While the addon has 50k downloads (5k / month) (and yes, i know those numbers don't work^^). Anyway, providing such numbers and saying "see, people download it and therefore think it is awesome" is the same as you do, wasting each others time.
edit: just saw that you've highlighted the word defending.
No, actually I don't consider this defending. As mentioned several times, I don't care at all what is happening with that part of the API. I simply don't.
What I do is looking at the arguments that people are coming up with. And most of them are complete nonsense. Calling people cheater while they aren't. I've told many times, that this is the main issue I'm having with this whole discussion. People in here are getting emotional and are ignoring facts. Claiming people cheat, because you simply don't like something doesn't make anything of this here right. It isn't cheating. If you don't like the API and want to complain, yes, feel free and go ahead. Do this in a constructive manner. Claiming it is cheating simply isn't.Edited by InvitationNotFound on October 23, 2017 1:24PMWe want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR6 -
Irfind✭✭✭✭✭Im realy bad at PVP, but i will never use Add ons like Miats, thats just Cheating ore at last a unfair advantage.
Just my 2 centPC EU no CP PVPEP Irfind - Stam NB DunmerEP Iswind - Mag Warden DunmerEP Ko'runa Silberklaue - Mag Temp KhajiitEP Eldrid Hagal - Mag DK DunmerEP Feyne R'is - Stam Sorc Dunmer ...with BowEP Wynn Loraethaine - Mag NB DunmerAD Runare Loraethaine - Stam Sorc AltmerAD Skadi Hagal - Stam DK Khajiit3 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭i have been thinking about this add on alot, and to be honest its not on, someone like me can add a bit of scrip and get the add on to move me out of the way, when it detects an attack coming, this is purely cheating, let me explain, its like having macro's it gives you an unfair advantage over the person you are playing against and to make matters worse, the peeps using it want say they are even in dueling. So why not lets us take it a step further and make an add on that procs several skills at once and move you, why not even have it proc all skills at once ;p and do it automatic then you can say look iam the best, even though its the pc playing the gameMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike2
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InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »i have been thinking about this add on alot, and to be honest its not on, someone like me can add a bit of scrip and get the add on to move me out of the way, when it detects an attack coming, this is purely cheating, let me explain, its like having macro's it gives you an unfair advantage over the person you are playing against and to make matters worse, the peeps using it want say they are even in dueling. So why not lets us take it a step further and make an add on that procs several skills at once and move you, why not even have it proc all skills at once ;p and do it automatic then you can say look iam the best, even though its the pc playing the game
You don't seem to understand what an addon is capable of doing and what restrictions are in place.We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR1
This discussion has been closed.