The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »Demycilian wrote: »ZOS will actually be taking action against the addon cheating? So confused now.
Technically no... no action will be taken against the addon or it's users.
Gina basically said that how the information in the API can be used by those who create add ons in the future will be looked at, so that information ZOS feels should not be accessable will not be.
What is important to remember here is that, today, we have an API that ZOS looked at just a few months ago, and the information ZOS felt should not be accessable, isn't.
I am not exactly sure what people are partying about. Let's wait until after ZOS says what they are going to do, then decide if the party is going to happen.
Oh I agree with you.. People are partying for no reason and reading more into Gina's words than what was actually posted.
I find it rather amusing.
I don't give a rats fuzzy arse what happens when it comes to this program. It doesn't bother me, nor has it ruined my game play when I choose to PVP because I don't give two craps if I do or don't die. I just PVP for fun and find it so simple compared to other end game aspects of ESO, so I don't need the add ons to help me, except maybe Crown Customizer, LOL. I don't care either if someone else kills me. I just port somewhere else and rapid on my mount back to the fight.
As I had said earlier, probably the easiest route ZOS should take is just prevent any add ons from working while in PVP. That way every one is on fair ground.
But how long is that going to keep people happy until they start whining again about something else? or begin blaming others for doing something they aren't doing because they can't admit their issue is their own lack of skills. It's never ending.
Personally, I think all they need to do is ensure that the API isn't announcing events being performed by currently stealthed characters, which seems to be a huge belief among those who are complaining about cheating. I thought that ZOS already did this, last time they looked at this add-on, but maybe they missed something. I don't know if there is a "range" issue with the event announcements, but if the range is set to high, maybe it needs to be dialed back. Alternately, the range of some abilities should be dialed back.
My main concern is that ZOS examine and evaluate the add-on and how it uses the API independently of the commentary in the forum. The forum is more of a mass hysteria zone and not everything that is being said is a reasoned unbiased response. I would rather not have ZOS jaded by this.2 -
T4T2FR34K✭✭✭✭✭Yes, very happy...I was going to ask for a refund as #1 Its totally against ToS (reread it if needed) and #2 taking away my stealth is like taking away a Temps healing...it is FUNDAMENTALLY detremintal to my playstyle and enjoyment of the game. So, crisis averted...those that cant hack PvP without it...loot early, loot often...
p.s. here is just ONE line from ToS...so to all of you saying "ZoS aproves it because its available" LULZ
"ZeniMax does not endorse, sponsor, guaranty or approve any Game Mods, including without limitation Game Mods available for download from a ZeniMax website."
p.s.s. I like the idea of no mods in PvP (minimap dont count)...its a crutch, players on XB/PS4 dont need them to smoke you like a G6...Edited by T4T2FR34K on October 21, 2017 12:21PM5 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes, very happy...I was going to ask for a refund as #1 Its totally against ToS (reread it if needed) and #2 taking away my stealth is like taking away a Temps healing...it is FUNDAMENTALLY detremintal to my playstyle and enjoyment of the game. So, crisis averted...those that cant hack PvP without it...loot early, loot often...
p.s. here is just ONE line from ToS...so to all of you saying "ZoS aproves it because its available" LULZ
"ZeniMax does not endorse, sponsor, guaranty or approve any Game Mods, including without limitation Game Mods available for download from a ZeniMax website."
p.s.s. I like the idea of no mods in PvP (minimap dont count)...its a crutch, players on XB/PS4 dont need them to smoke you like a G6...
Another one who doesn't understand the difference between a mod and an add-on.
I wonder how many people like this voted in that poll which @DDuke likes to quote on whether all addons should be removed.., and how many were console players who have absolutely no idea what kind of thing the majority of addons can do..
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.4 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.4 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
Why don't you guys contact the guy who created Cheat Engine and hire him on your dev team...
I'm being serious too.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Except this part of those addons does in fact modify the game in such a way that messes up core mechanics so they do not function as intended. They destroy entire builds. I am beyond happy they are going to be doing something, and the people that are mad that they are, they are just bitter.5 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Except this part of those addons does in fact modify the game in such a way that messes up core mechanics so they do not function as intended. They destroy entire builds. I am beyond happy they are going to be doing something, and the people that are mad that they are, they are just bitter.
But I don't really think anyone is mad that they are doing something. I, like many others don't like what the mod can do, and will be happy to see its features reduced.
I just don't think its right to call those who use it (or in some cases any addons) cheats, when we simply don't have a clear statement from zos.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Except the devs/ their publisher can change or revoke any and all functionalities and API permissions given—at any time. We click “yes” to that anytime there’s an update. We are contractually obligated when we do.
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alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »If you Have any Question for Miat leave them in the comments of the video.
https://youtu.be/fOVgRcfoes0
lol i need a add-on to play, its crazy, i don't use and my kill ratio in pvp is 50-1, why on earth do you need n dd-on to tell you how to play learn the game, it like raid noti, peeps who use add ons can play they are not real gamers, because real gamers play the game their self and not let the pc do itMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Except the devs/ their publisher can change or revoke any and all functionalities and API permissions given—at any time. We click “yes” to that anytime there’s an update. We are contractually obligated when we do.
That they can, which is part of the distinction. The devs have full control over what their APIs provide and can change it when they please.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭it kind of sounds as though we're all discussing performance enhancing drugs in sports...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
Phreeki✭✭✭I love the people saying "this addon destroys entire builds" that is because you don't really know how to NB. The good NB's have no problem still ganking people even with this addon, it's the bad ones crying that this ruins their build.
You can make any argument you want but if you think balanced game play is coming out of stealth and perma stun cc then bam bam and you are dead...well i am not sure if you know what the word balanced means.
And before you give "well just use RM and other skills to avoid being ganked" doesn't that impact my build diversity because of a subset of players who don't really want to fight, just earn ap and run away.
But hey lets let a vocal minority dictate how the rest of us should play because they don't want to adapt. the good NB's adapted, so i guess all that's left are the bad ones crying about this addon.
Edited by Phreeki on October 21, 2017 6:03PM4 -
killimandrosb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I love the people saying "this addon destroys entire builds" that is because you don't really know how to NB. The good NB's have no problem still ganking people even with this addon, it's the bad ones crying that this ruins their build.
What is the difference between the NB's crying about their ranged stealth attacks being ruined, to the ones needing an addon to help them avoid said attacks? You my friend just made a good laugh of yourself. Not to mention youre even whining about melee NB attacks....oh the irony... "
are you even aware of the topic of this discussion? I doubt it...You can make any argument you want but if you think balanced game play is coming out of stealth and perma stun cc then bam bam and you are dead...well i am not sure if you know what the word balanced means.
But hey lets let a vocal minority dictate how the rest of us should play because they don't want to adapt. the good NB's adapted, so i guess all that's left are the bad ones crying about this addon.
the worst ones must be, and correct me if I am wrong, those who doesnt even understand that this addon does NOT interfere with your gameplay this way, and still are very vocal about it. Maybe what you really are discussing is "the other" addon which was banned? If so I suggest you stop using CE...
Edited by killimandrosb16_ESO on October 21, 2017 6:11PM5 -
akredon_ESO✭✭✭✭So over 500 people later we finally get ZOS to respond to our concerns about this add on... Going forward is this the kind of community interaction we need to get a hold of the devs so they can let us know HEY, we are aware of this issue we will get it taken care of?
3 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I love the people saying "this addon destroys entire builds" that is because you don't really know how to NB. The good NB's have no problem still ganking people even with this addon, it's the bad ones crying that this ruins their build.
You can make any argument you want but if you think balanced game play is coming out of stealth and perma stun cc then bam bam and you are dead...well i am not sure if you know what the word balanced means.
And before you give "well just use RM and other skills to avoid being ganked" doesn't that impact my build diversity because of a subset of players who don't really want to fight, just earn ap and run away.
But hey lets let a vocal minority dictate how the rest of us should play because they don't want to adapt. the good NB's adapted, so i guess all that's left are the bad ones crying about this addon.
Who said only NBs can gank? Also ranged projectile builds are also severely hurt by this addon, especially people trying to use abilities with a charge up.4 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hence forth - i shall refer to the use of these performance enhancing add-ons as "doping"...
it shall be so...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do I care about this individual's opinion?
Oh that's right, I don't.
He's not a developer.
And I hate his motivation6 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love the people saying "this addon destroys entire builds" that is because you don't really know how to NB. The good NB's have no problem still ganking people even with this addon, it's the bad ones crying that this ruins their build.
This addon has nothing to do with NBs, it affects all ranged builds with cast time abilities.
Also, I'd say bad players are the ones who need 3rd party cheats to deal with certain builds that aren't even meta due to their relative weakness.You can make any argument you want but if you think balanced game play is coming out of stealth and perma stun cc then bam bam and you are dead...well i am not sure if you know what the word balanced means.- There is no "perma stun cc", there's barely even CC thanks to cooldownless CC break. Perhaps you should learn to react faster?
- "bam bam and you are dead" is what every good build in the game does. "bam bam and you are still alive" isn't a winning plan in a world with permablocking healbots & 15k shields.
And before you give "well just use RM and other skills to avoid being ganked" doesn't that impact my build diversity because of a subset of players who don't really want to fight, just earn ap and run away.
No, it doesn't. It affects how much health you need & how many impen pieces you need, but it doesn't affect your build/playstyle.
If you play a squishy build with 7 divines & expect to get away with it with zero downsides, you're doing it wrong - there are builds that are built to deal with squishies & suffer vs tanky ones (that's their downside). After all, it's a RPG - how you build your character matters.
You can significantly lower the amount of health/impen required by learning to react faster.
7 Medium Impen & 23k health can survive any gank build out there as long as you CC break (or avoid burst entirely) fast for example.
Not sure what you're even so afraid of - melee builds deal the most damage anyway with or without the addon - and they're not negatively affected by it.
If anything, having some of those melee stam builds play bow instead means there's less stealth burst damage around that can instagib you.But hey lets let a vocal minority dictate how the rest of us should play because they don't want to adapt. the good NB's adapted, so i guess all that's left are the bad ones crying about this addon.
Here's your "vocal minority":
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376277/is-miats-add-on-cheating-to-you/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369568/should-miats-attack-alert-be-allowed/p1
5.3% margin of error
If you can't deal with the "rogue" & "assassin" archetypes, maybe (MMO)RPGs aren't for you, and if you can't play without cheating maybe multiplayer games aren't for you either.Edited by DDuke on October 21, 2017 7:13PM7 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Let me explain. Mods, as mentioned in you quote from the tos relate to modifying the core game code/files/assets.
Addons instead use something called APIs (application programming interfaces). These APIs were created by zos specifically to be used by the add-on makers to make their addons. This is where the addons get their game-info from.
(NB an add-on is additional code that runs with the game, not a change to the core game).
So the fact that what an add-on can do is limited by (and therefore controlled by)what the devs choose to make available in their api, is what makes an add-on 'allowed' and therefore not against the tos.
Now modifying the games files/assets on the other hand could potentially mean getting access to more info than the api gives, and so is against the tos. As zos don't allow mods (and so don't provide the tools for it), this would essentially be 'hacking'.
Its not really about lawyer-speak. Its about very different programming activities.
One is akin to being given something and using it, the others is taking without consent.
Except this part of those addons does in fact modify the game in such a way that messes up core mechanics so they do not function as intended. They destroy entire builds. I am beyond happy they are going to be doing something, and the people that are mad that they are, they are just bitter.
But I don't really think anyone is mad that they are doing something. I, like many others don't like what the mod can do, and will be happy to see its features reduced.
I just don't think its right to call those who use it (or in some cases any addons) cheats, when we simply don't have a clear statement from zos.
Thats fair, but it still is at the minimum exploiting the system for an unfair advantage imo.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While we would like to keep this thread open with the understanding that there is a desire to discuss this content, we have had to remove quite a few comments from this thread for harassment and insults. We will be closing this thread if it cannot conduct a civil conversation without derailing into flaming other users.
The discussion in this thread has been fineWhy was there even a question about this add-on being a cheat? I only became aware of this add-on today and after a quick google which informed me that part of the addon lets you detect opponent casting while they are in stealth it is obviously a cheat as it bypasses intended game mechanics and balances.
There are so many parts to this add-on that actually seem to access info in a questionable manner but don't seem to be an actual cheat but detection of stealthed opponents without using intended in game mechanics to do so out right crosses the line
Side thought, I wonder if the API changes will be ones that will break all the bots out there?
The saddest part of all is you had so many people come in here and try say the addon didn't fall into the category of cheating. So many people coming in here and trying to justify it as perfectly fine and something that should actually be allowed.
Just the saddest thing. Had people furiously arguing against me that it's "not cheating waahhh boohoo". Just the most shocking thing. Amazing people aren't ashamed of this thing. I used it sure but only out of necessity I hated the thing and want to see it banned. But I don't like putting myself at a disadvantage >95% of people using it.
I haven't heard anything about ZOS doing something about it but the best thing would be to just ban the function that lets you see opponents attacks and just keep the part with the keep cap meter and the out-of-the-way ui stuff.
My butt it's been fine. People have been going on a witch-hunt.1 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭
Like a sad, lonely being that cannot be honest even in a video game, so he cheats.
There are "lonely being that cheats in videogame" accents? That´s new to me
There is now...1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
Because ? I mean what do You know about people who voted ? How do You know it was representative sample ? How do You know half of them wasnt console players or players who dont even know what term "add-on" means ? What do You know about this people experience with add-ons ? How much of this people is actually using them ? Also since it's open voting how can You know someone didnt asked firends to vote same as him ? I am not agaisnt results of this voting but lets be honest it's far from beeing reliable to the point it can mirror whole player base.Edited by Juhasow on October 22, 2017 2:14AM4 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
Because ? I mean what do You know about people who voted ? How do You know it was representative sample ? How do You know half of them wasnt console players or players who dont even know what term "add-on" means ? What do You know about this people experience with add-ons ? How much of this people is actually using them ? Also since it's open voting how can You know someone didnt asked firends to vote same as him ? I am not agaisnt results of this voting but lets be honest it's far from beeing reliable to the point it can mirror whole player base.
Polling and statistics people are so used to making up numbers that they don't even know where they come from. 2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
Because ? I mean what do You know about people who voted ?
I don't, and that's a good thing. Otherwise there'd be polling bias and you could accuse the pollster of handpicking a favourable demographic.How do You know it was representative sample ? How do You know half of them wasnt console players or players who dont even know what term "add-on" means ?
Well, only people who have played/still play ESO have forum access to vote on these polls. It doesn't matter how (or why) console players vote, the poll wasn't asking PC players only.
Imagine if ZOS were to add addons to console as well some day - they do have a stake in this as well.What do You know about this people experience with add-ons ? How much of this people is actually using them ?
I don't know that, nor am I supposed to. Again, polling needs to be random in order to avoid bias.Also since it's open voting how can You know someone didnt asked firends to vote same as him ? I am not agaisnt results of this voting but lets be honest it's far from beeing reliable to the point it can mirror whole player base.
That's why you apply margin of error - to make it more reliable.
With 150 sample size you get it down to 8% margin of error with 95% confidence (5% chance it's wrong). With 99% confidence level you'd have a margin of error of 11% with that sample size.
Maths can sometimes seem like magic - truly fascinating the things you can do with it
Sidenote: sorry if I derailed the thread a bit, I just like explaining these things.
P.S. I voted "other" on that poll myself, I don't want to see all the nice, non-exploitative addons gone because of one bad apple
Edited by DDuke on October 22, 2017 8:54AM1
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