ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A

Jade1986

Dredlord wrote: »

DDuke is right, the rest of the his thread is mostly a bunch of scrubs trying to defend and preserve their advantage/crutch.

Pretty sure the people that need a crystal ball to see who is attacking them even when not targeting them are the ones who need a crutch.

L.
O.
L.

pdebie64b16_ESO

thedude33 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Why is this thread going on ffs

People are getting so caught up on the word “cheating” let’s put that word down for a sec. what ever you want to call it, it’s not how ZoS wanted the game to be played an addOn should never be a counter to a build just that simple. Does this addOn help counter a build class and playstyle? Yep ur damn sure it does so “at the end of the day” it’s WRONG.

Just bc ZoS didn’t know the API could be used to do something like this does not mean it’s okay. Look at all the other unattended bugs or issues with the game that they found out later.

Can we please get off the word cheat and get on the subject that we can all agree on that this is obviously not right and so much so that ZoS is looking at changing the API to prevent people from making these kinds of changes to combat.

END OF THREAD FFS

Agree. Making a stand on whether this is or is not a cheat detracts from the entire point. That this particular add on is not good for the game.

It bypass a game mechanic called sneak, so yes its a cheat simple as that

Jade1986

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

It's not a "cheat" based on the allowable usage of the API. It does, however, appear to have some seriously destructive unintended (by ZOS) consequences to PvP. These consequences are both general to the overall population and very specific to the NB class that relies on the ability to be undetected before they strike.

Those that do not support the addon need to frame the argument differently than calling it a "cheat." That only allows for a counter to your argument that you can't win. It literally is not a cheat due to currently allowable access to the API / combat logs. It IS, however, a game breaking addon that needs to be stamped out by ZOS if they have any integrity or desire to maintain a relatively fair PvP environment...period.

I think the argument is that since the API was letting you see attacks from stealth enemies, it should have been "/bug" instead of creating an add-on that utilizes it's function. And it was up to the players that found it to do so, and the rest of the playerbase to continue to "/bug" to keep the DEV team mindful of its presence. But this part hints at issues of ethics, not necessarily TOS violating, because one can negatively view the add-on creator but ZOS wont be punishing the creator. And the addon creator can say things like "the API had it, so I didn't think it was broken".

Also things can exist in the game which aren't formally reviewed as exploits because they haven't been formally "/bug" for the team to review.

Ok, this looks like the major point of disagreement.

Seeing attacks of stealthed enemies.

I assume the argument goes something like 'they are stealthed. Invisible. You're not supposed to see the invisible, duh!.

Is it correct?

If it is, then i have a counterargument right there:

Stealth/invisibility is this game (and many other games) has a very distinct property. That is 'you will immediately lose stealth if you are attacked or if you attack anybody'.

I don't think we're arguing if stealth has to be broken on instant attack against anybody, right?

So the only question that needs resolution is 'do we consider prechannel to be an attack or not'.

if we think about the prechannel as a necessary part of specific attacks, then starting this channel should be considered an attack and thus break stealth.

And since in this game prechannels don't break stealth i'd argue that that is a glitch and this glitch should be reported instead of exploiting it, making builds based on this exploit and even defending the builds that are enabled by this exploit.

Now the argument that prechannels should bring stealth by design (not by my desire):

1. Skills with prechannel are considerably more effective that skills without it.
2. This additional power has to be offset with a drawback to be balanced against instant skills.
3. This drawback is the channel time itself.
4. The channel time is a drawback, because it allows for the target to notice the channeling skill and react accordingly.
5. Channeled skills can only be balanced against instant skills, if channel itself is clearly visible to the target.
6. Therefore any attempts to make the channel invisible (either by animation cancel glitch or by deliberately channeling it from stealth) is an exploit of the intended design and lead to imbalancing channels vs instant skill relative power.
7. The fact that this exploit has been in the game for so long can't be an argument towards its legitimization for the same reasons as 'Double Mundus exploit or Sharp Mace exploit' were still considered exploits over the whole time of their existence (as DDuke teaches us).
8. Additionally only nightblades can effectively exploit this property of channeled skills. This imbalances the whole situation even stronger creating an unfair advantage that is available to one class only.

Ergo, channels from stealth should break stealth at the start of the channel. The fact that they don't constitutes an exploit of skill design paradigm. Making builds based of the exploit should be shunned and prevented.

Cheers!:P

-facepalm-

I desked, not palmed. xD

Dredlord

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

i have been thinking about this add on alot, and to be honest its not on, someone like me can add a bit of scrip and get the add on to move me out of the way, when it detects an attack coming, this is purely cheating, let me explain, its like having macro's it gives you an unfair advantage over the person you are playing against and to make matters worse, the peeps using it want say they are even in dueling. So why not lets us take it a step further and make an add on that procs several skills at once and move you, why not even have it proc all skills at once ;p and do it automatic then you can say look iam the best, even though its the pc playing the game

You don't seem to understand what an addon is capable of doing and what restrictions are in place.

Niether do you...

InvitationNotFound

Dredlord wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

i have been thinking about this add on alot, and to be honest its not on, someone like me can add a bit of scrip and get the add on to move me out of the way, when it detects an attack coming, this is purely cheating, let me explain, its like having macro's it gives you an unfair advantage over the person you are playing against and to make matters worse, the peeps using it want say they are even in dueling. So why not lets us take it a step further and make an add on that procs several skills at once and move you, why not even have it proc all skills at once ;p and do it automatic then you can say look iam the best, even though its the pc playing the game

You don't seem to understand what an addon is capable of doing and what restrictions are in place.

Niether do you...

What he describes "add a bit of scrip and get the add on to move me". Wrong, respectively not accurate at all.
a) if you are capable to achieve this simply through an addon, you are abusing a bug / exploit as it isn't designed for that. It isn't the purpose of an addon. Of course, there were and might be bypasses, but again, that's not what they have been designed for and neither does the aforementioned addon perform any of these tasks.
b) scripting means you are using an additional application, interpreter, you name it. If you want to use a third party application, you'll always be capable of achieving this. This hasn't anything directly to do with an addon.

@Dredlord now go ahead and enlighten me on how addons work and what restrictions have been implemented by the developers.

Dredlord

laced wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

DDuke is right, the rest of the his thread is mostly a bunch of scrubs trying to defend and preserve their advantage/crutch.

Pretty sure the people that need a crystal ball to see who is attacking them even when not targeting them are the ones who need a crutch.

L.
O.
L.

Sounds like we are in agreement!

Skoomah

This is a disgusting add on and gives a huge advantage to people who don't use it. If ZOS wants players to have the ability to be telegraphed when they will get hit and eliminate the element of surprise, then ZOS should bake it into the base game. This add on makes a mockery of people who play the game fair and square. Add ons like this dumb down the game and reduce the level of skill required to win.

Bam_Bam

Skoomah wrote: »

This is a disgusting add on and gives a huge advantage to people who don't use it.

eH???

And it isn't disgusting. Its sketchy.

Katahdin

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Who cares who thinks who is cheating anymore ? The bottom line is ZoS allowed this to go on so long some players left . Including the author . .

"the author" do you mean MIat? Miat still plays almost daily. I saw him in Cyro last week.

Katahdin

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.

Thank you Gina and the rest of the Dev team.
Some of the things this addon does circumvents the game play designed by the devs and should not be allowed, period.

Idinuse

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Actually, I would say the API is working as intended, but ZOS never considered what kind of add-ons creators would actually make.

And on a side note, limiting the API won't really change anything.

I think they knew and that is why Paul Sage went to great lengths to keep access limited .

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/21cgkf/zos_paulsage_followup_recent_changes_to_api/

Funny thing is that as Paul states there, the API could be used to automate the game and have macros play it for you instead of the player. And here is one huge aspect of Miat's as well, combined with an Autoclicker it opened up the possibility of having automated responses to the information of attacks or debuffs that the API supplied Miat's Alert. We all know when it happens or when we see shields never go down, and it's 2-3 shield casts never ever seen, but a myriad of skills keep spewing from the same player. Autoclick and pixel monitoring.

Maikon

Skoomah wrote: »

This is a disgusting add on and gives a huge advantage to people who don't use it. If ZOS wants players to have the ability to be telegraphed when they will get hit and eliminate the element of surprise, then ZOS should bake it into the base game. This add on makes a mockery of people who play the game fair and square. Add ons like this dumb down the game and reduce the level of skill required to win.

So wait, I've been using it this whole time and giving myself a disadvantage?

Rohamad_Ali

Katahdin wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Who cares who thinks who is cheating anymore ? The bottom line is ZoS allowed this to go on so long some players left . Including the author . .

"the author" do you mean MIat? Miat still plays almost daily. I saw him in Cyro last week.

He said in a different thread he was playing GW2 more .

sirston

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.

Yeah f The "Ing" right
I know your a public relations person and your "job" is public relations to the community, However; how many other times has one of the 10 Golden knights of the game. show you guys a broken mechanic/exploitable problem and then dev team just took a pissa about it?

Ive know probably 20 different times I have seen that statement that somehow a dev for Zenimax is "looking into it". Look I understand that you are trying to quill worry's about plugins being game breaking but if its out of Jeff/Bob/peter's times of day to write a 300 line code turning off those type of plugins and his time is wasted making the same 20 mounts a different color.

Please for the love of talos just tell us the the consumers that your wasting your other developers time making dumb color changes then actually fixing a game breaking issue. If you want your game to last the 10 years your project manager is projecting. its not going to happen with color changes to mounts.

Avran_Sylt

@sirston

Please, be respectful on the forums, it does no good to attack people, especially if they're just the messenger.

Not only that, but please keep in mind that Zenimax OnIine Studios is a smaller company, and changes will take time, especially if any internal dialogue is laden on only a few people who have other deadlines to meet. And that further attacks on them serves to only make them more averse in listening to the community.

Dorrino

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@sirston

Please, be respectful on the forums, it does no good to attack people, especially if they're just the messenger.

Not only that, but please keep in mind that Zenimax OnIine Studios is a smaller company, and changes will take time, especially if any internal dialogue is laden on only a few people who have other deadlines to meet. And that further attacks on them serves to only make them more averse in listening to the community.

Please don't shift the blame to the community.

I can put up an excellent well-written post, full of respect and understanding and still get zero response.

Community sees quite well that predominantly shouting all caps offensive posts get the attention.

When ZOS changes their communication - the community will adapt.

JonnytheKing

Dorrino wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@sirston

Please, be respectful on the forums, it does no good to attack people, especially if they're just the messenger.

Not only that, but please keep in mind that Zenimax OnIine Studios is a smaller company, and changes will take time, especially if any internal dialogue is laden on only a few people who have other deadlines to meet. And that further attacks on them serves to only make them more averse in listening to the community.

Please don't shift the blame to the community.

I can put up an excellent well-written post, full of respect and understanding and still get zero response.

Community sees quite well that predominantly shouting all caps offensive posts get the attention.

When ZOS changes their communication - the community will adapt.

VERY WELL SAID

Feanor

Idinuse wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Actually, I would say the API is working as intended, but ZOS never considered what kind of add-ons creators would actually make.

And on a side note, limiting the API won't really change anything.

I think they knew and that is why Paul Sage went to great lengths to keep access limited .

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/21cgkf/zos_paulsage_followup_recent_changes_to_api/

Funny thing is that as Paul states there, the API could be used to automate the game and have macros play it for you instead of the player. And here is one huge aspect of Miat's as well, combined with an Autoclicker it opened up the possibility of having automated responses to the information of attacks or debuffs that the API supplied Miat's Alert. We all know when it happens or when we see shields never go down, and it's 2-3 shield casts never ever seen, but a myriad of skills keep spewing from the same player. Autoclick and pixel monitoring.

I‘m just coding for a hobby and have no experience with LUA or the specific API calls, but my guess is this has nothing to do with the addon or even the API itself. APIs are a commonly used feature if a program author wants other programmers to access game functions they otherwise couldn’t call because they are out of the scope or visibility of external code.

These restrictions are totally irrelevant once you have gained access to the client. Within the permissions of the client you can call everything and have access to everything the client itself has. And there are a lot of programs out there that do exactly that.

Miat’s addon simply does what is allowed. It’s not hacking. Whether it should be allowed or not is an entirely different question, one that has produced 1000s of pages over several threads. I still think it’s funny though that all the snipers and other stealth abusers rage about killing their game experience when all they do is exactly the same without thought of their opponents. Yes, I know, it’s legit to do so because ZOS has put it in the game. Up until recently you could say the same of the used function calls though. The hypocrisy is pretty hilarious.

Again, I got no horses in that race. It’s just a very interesting study about people. Things are always fair when they don’t spoil the personal fun I guess.

InvitationNotFound

Feanor wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

Actually, I would say the API is working as intended, but ZOS never considered what kind of add-ons creators would actually make.

And on a side note, limiting the API won't really change anything.

I think they knew and that is why Paul Sage went to great lengths to keep access limited .

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/21cgkf/zos_paulsage_followup_recent_changes_to_api/

Funny thing is that as Paul states there, the API could be used to automate the game and have macros play it for you instead of the player. And here is one huge aspect of Miat's as well, combined with an Autoclicker it opened up the possibility of having automated responses to the information of attacks or debuffs that the API supplied Miat's Alert. We all know when it happens or when we see shields never go down, and it's 2-3 shield casts never ever seen, but a myriad of skills keep spewing from the same player. Autoclick and pixel monitoring.

I‘m just coding for a hobby and have no experience with LUA or the specific API calls, but my guess is this has nothing to do with the addon or even the API itself. APIs are a commonly used feature if a program author wants other programmers to access game functions they otherwise couldn’t call because they are out of the scope or visibility of external code.

These restrictions are totally irrelevant once you have gained access to the client. Within the permissions of the client you can call everything and have access to everything the client itself has. And there are a lot of programs out there that do exactly that.

Miat’s addon simply does what is allowed. It’s not hacking. Whether it should be allowed or not is an entirely different question, one that has produced 1000s of pages over several threads. I still think it’s funny though that all the snipers and other stealth abusers rage about killing their game experience when all they do is exactly the same without thought of their opponents. Yes, I know, it’s legit to do so because ZOS has put it in the game. Up until recently you could say the same of the used function calls though. The hypocrisy is pretty hilarious.

Again, I got no horses in that race. It’s just a very interesting study about people. Things are always fair when they don’t spoil the personal fun I guess.

Well said.

What people often don't really understand is that at the moment you are using something instead or in addition to an addon (read third party software - and some fancy "scripts" fall into this category), it won't matter anymore what an addon is allowed and capable of. With an external application or a modification of the client you'll always be capable of automating the game. (except you have bugs in the API - but that's another topic).

Furthermore, read the ToS:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

Jayman1000

Skoomah wrote: »

This is a disgusting add on and gives a huge advantage to people who don't use it. If ZOS wants players to have the ability to be telegraphed when they will get hit and eliminate the element of surprise, then ZOS should bake it into the base game. This add on makes a mockery of people who play the game fair and square. Add ons like this dumb down the game and reduce the level of skill required to win.

no... the fact that ZOS is not fixing this is the problem here. ZOS is continuing to allow this information to be accessible for addons. Would you prefer Miats addon to be private and only used by a select elite of players? At least now anyone can download it and install it and level the playing field.

killimandrosb16_ESO

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

This is a disgusting add on and gives a huge advantage to people who don't use it. If ZOS wants players to have the ability to be telegraphed when they will get hit and eliminate the element of surprise, then ZOS should bake it into the base game. This add on makes a mockery of people who play the game fair and square. Add ons like this dumb down the game and reduce the level of skill required to win.

no... the fact that ZOS is not fixing this is the problem here. ZOS is continuing to allow this information to be accessible for addons. Would you prefer Miats addon to be private and only used by a select elite of players? At least now anyone can download it and install it and level the playing field.

I would prefer ALL changes to game mechanics and META of the game to be decided and eventually changed by the developers, certainly not Miat. Its not his game so its not up to him to decide what skills and classes and game mechanics should be allowed. Today with the addon working as he intended it, this is what he does. And I dont even play any stealth based toons (Thats for you and your presumtions Feanor. SOmetimes its right to just stand up for what is right instead of stay silent in favour of what is wrong)

Thannazzar

Personally I'd like ZOS to honor their prior to launch advertising commitment of allowing players to chose their megaserver instance settings - so rather than just ignoring toxic chat, stealth gankers and 12 year olds I actually had an option never to enounter them in game..... but that's not happening either.

MIATs is fine by ZOS.

DDuke

Thannazzar wrote: »

Personally I'd like ZOS to honor their prior to launch advertising commitment of allowing players to chose their megaserver instance settings - so rather than just ignoring toxic chat, stealth gankers and 12 year olds I actually had an option never to enounter them in game..... but that's not happening either.

MIATs is fine by ZOS.

Really.. is that why they said this in January:

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

...and this just a couple days ago:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.

---

Feanor wrote: »

I still think it’s funny though that all the snipers and other stealth abusers rage about killing their game experience when all they do is exactly the same without thought of their opponents. Yes, I know, it’s legit to do so because ZOS has put it in the game. Up until recently you could say the same of the used function calls though. The hypocrisy is pretty hilarious.

Again, I got no horses in that race. It’s just a very interesting study about people. Things are always fair when they don’t spoil the personal fun I guess.

They really should reinstate the LOL button. If you can't deal with the existence of "stealth abusers" - DON'T PLAY A MMORPG WITH STEALTH.

It doesn't get much simpler than that.


Besides, this addon doesn't even do anything about the dangerous melee stealth builds as you very well know - it only affects the weaker bow builds & others with cast time abilities.

Again, if you don't find the existence of casters & archers enjoyable - go find another MMORPG, or go make a forum post on what's wrong with bow & other cast time builds and why you think they're "ruining the gameplay experience of others".

I've played every class in both stamina & magicka variants and never have i found bow users (or other cast time builds) something that you can't play (as in play, not cheat) around.


You're like some vegetarian that walks into a restaurant and starts yelling & demanding all meat to be removed from the restaurant because you're bothered by the smell. Sad.

Feanor

@DDuke

No, I’m just saying that the meat is not well cooked and not very tasty while still enjoying my salad. But you just took it one step further. „If you don’t like the way I like to play, you can just play another game.“ Grand.

killimandrosb16_ESO

and really...if you compare ranged stealth classes to almost ANY other classes, their weaknesses and strenghts, its almost a conclusion of your own inability if you fail to THAT specific combo...The times Ive died to a snipe over the last few months I played the game (after the countless nerfs to that combo) can be counted on not one hand but one finger...Bows are weak and used mainly as a backbar and buff utility for almost any stamclasses, but never as a main and thats not only because of Miats...Its like constantly picking on the redhaired stephson but leaving and highfiving the bully of the class. Classy isnt it...

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

@DDuke

No, I’m just saying that the meat is not well cooked and not very tasty while still enjoying my salad. But you just took it one step further. „If you don’t like the way I like to play, you can just play another game.“ Grand.

If you don't like the existence of "rogues" & "assassins" in a RPG (Role-playing Game) and you try to justify cheating against them with that (even when that cheating only affects the weaker stealth builds) then yeah - go find another game where stealth doesn't exist and quickly please. Toxic people like you are what drive people away from the game.

Nor did you understand my analogy at all, but don't worry I didn't expect any more of you.

Feanor

@DDuke

Awwww. Now I’m feeling really special. First time I’ve been called “toxic” on the forum. Can’t get any better than that.

You don’t seem to get that I’m not even using the notifications. Hence all allusions that I’m just salty because I die to snipes are misleading. But well - I don’t expect anyone to understand that someone is not using these functionalities and still find stealth as it is in the game totally appalling.

Wrubius_Coronaria

DDuke wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@DDuke

No, I’m just saying that the meat is not well cooked and not very tasty while still enjoying my salad. But you just took it one step further. „If you don’t like the way I like to play, you can just play another game.“ Grand.

If you don't like the existence of "rogues" & "assassins" in a RPG (Role-playing Game) and you try to justify cheating against them with that (even when that cheating only affects the weaker stealth builds) then yeah - go find another game where stealth doesn't exist and quickly please. Toxic people like you are what drive people away from the game.

Nor did you understand my analogy at all, but don't worry I didn't expect any more of you.

The most toxic person is this thread is you. I'm surprised you're not banned after your extreme bashing on forum (for weeks) about this addon and its creator. (the funniest is when reading you, everybody who don't agree with you is wrong or stupid and you restart over and over the same discussion when using the same arguments ad nauseam). Stop that, your point of view has been heard, Gina Bruno has even posted a message about Miat's addon and they're looking at it. It's to move on once and for all.

And I'm more surprised to see this thread is still not locked. The topic and the different points of views have been discussed so much now, this is just redundant and bring absolutely nothing new and constructive to add to what has been said already.

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

@DDuke

Awwww. Now I’m feeling really special. First time I’ve been called “toxic” on the forum. Can’t get any better than that.

You don’t seem to get that I’m not even using the notifications. Hence all allusions that I’m just salty because I die to snipes are misleading. But well - I don’t expect anyone to understand that someone is not using these functionalities and still find stealth as it is in the game totally appalling.

Then take it up with ZOS, not a 3rd party cheatmonger.

That you're not even using the cheat just makes it clear you don't even know what you're talking about. It does jack[snip] about 99% of those stealth builds you're so worried about.

Caitsith wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@DDuke

No, I’m just saying that the meat is not well cooked and not very tasty while still enjoying my salad. But you just took it one step further. „If you don’t like the way I like to play, you can just play another game.“ Grand.

If you don't like the existence of "rogues" & "assassins" in a RPG (Role-playing Game) and you try to justify cheating against them with that (even when that cheating only affects the weaker stealth builds) then yeah - go find another game where stealth doesn't exist and quickly please. Toxic people like you are what drive people away from the game.

Nor did you understand my analogy at all, but don't worry I didn't expect any more of you.

The most toxic person is this thread is you. I'm surprised you're not banned after your extreme bashing on forum (for weeks) about this addon and its creator. (the funniest is when reading you, everybody who don't agree with you is wrong or stupid and you restart over and over the same discussion when using the same arguments ad nauseam). Stop that, your point of view has been heard, Gina Bruno has even posted a message about Miat's addon and they're looking at it. It's to move on once and for all.

And I'm more surprised to see this thread is still not locked. The topic and the different points of views have been discussed so much now, this is just redundant and bring absolutely nothing new and constructive to add to what has been said already.

Bashing? I'm posting information, correcting misinformation and spending time recording videos about this cheat/exploit. What are you doing? If anything, I'm now being targeted by people who enjoyed cheating and feel frustrated.


I'm fully aware that Gina posted it'll be fixed, but until it is this is an open issue and I will not stand for people crying about "stealth abusers" and coming up with excuses for ZOS why this should stay in the game.

In other words: people stop posting bs, I will stop responding & we can move on until ZOS fixes this/has taken too long to fix this.

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

Then take it up with ZOS, not a 3rd party cheatmonger.

It’s worth neither time nor effort, considering it took ZOS 3 years to remove the bonus damage from stealth (NBs still get it via passives). And all the “assassins” and “rogues” would oppose changes and QQ too much.

That you're not even using the cheat just makes it clear you don't even know what you're talking about. It does jack[snip] about 99% of those stealth builds you're so worried about.

It’s just lovely how you just assume things about others. Things you know nothing about. I know full well it does jack about Incap -> SA from stealth as these are instant melee range casts. I’m not worried about stealth. I just dislike how it’s done. But apparently being in stealth with 24 people and jumping a solo player is what people consider fun in this game. To me, it’s all about fun.Otherwise I don’t care if I have to ride from Fare.

DDuke wrote: »

Bashing? I'm posting information, correcting misinformation and spending time recording videos about this cheat/exploit. What are you doing? If anything, I'm now being targeted by people who enjoyed cheating and feel frustrated.


I'm fully aware that Gina posted it'll be fixed, but until it is this is an open issue and I will not stand for people crying about "stealth abusers" and coming up with excuses for ZOS why this should stay in the game.

No, you’re posting what you think is the only possible stance on this. In other words, your opinion. Over and over again. I’m convinced you have list of statements you’re copy pasting by now. I’m sure you are the hero of so many unheard players and will get a monument erected somewhere in Tamriel.