GeneralFlogger wrote: »

I don't have an issue with the pricing. I don't get why I won't have additional storage space after I buy my almost 4mil gold DC castle?

This one million times!!!

But then I think that it's pretty obvious why houses, mansions, etc. don't have storage space.

Shame. Shame.

Artis wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

My point is that all in game achievements can be completed if you focus your efforts correctly. Therefore, no matter how hard or time consuming they are, they are not out of reach.

It is possible to earn/steal/save 3.8 million in gold to buy a manor house and collect whatever achievement that might come with it. If someone does not want to put their efforts into this, they have no right to say it is out of reach or can not be completed.

No there's a huge difference. You can't get there just by playing the game or playing the game well. You need to specifically farm gold, scan stores for deals, trade, trade, trade. That's nothing like getting,say, flawless conqueror where it all depends on your skill AND by getting it you are actually playing the game and becoming a better player.

Don't you see the difference?

You don't need to be a dedicated trader.

When I started playing in 2015, I was very much into the economic game. At one point, I spent almost all my time inside the bank, and I spent a lot of time buying underpriced items to sell.

And then a few things happened: First, I looked at my pile of gold (at the time, it was around 5 million) and realized that I had more gold than I could use. Second, I became the GM of a trading guild after the original GM quit the game (being a trade guild GM actually makes you poorer--it's a giant time and resource sink, and every other GM I know would be richer if they didn't have such an in-game job). And third, I joined an endgame PvE guild and got involved in trials.

So, by the time 2016 started, I had basically stopped trading. I simply had neither the time nor interest for it. I no longer bought items to flip. The only things that I sold were the things that I looted from normal day-to-day gameplay and things that I needed to get rid of for space reasons. Granted, some of those things are worth quite a lot--I got a third of a million for a gold Warlock ring that I got from vAA, for example. Oh, and after Craft Bags eliminated the need to offload mats to save space, I completely stopped selling mats.

So. I don't buy things to flip. I don't scan guild store prices. I don't even have MM installed any more. I sell only what I get from the stuff I normally do (and I still hoard a lot--I have about a couple dozen gold BoE jewelry pieces that I decided to keep instead of selling). And despite all that, I'm now sitting on a personal stash of around 15 million--I gained about 10 million over the last year. A large part of that is that I rarely spend the gold that I get. If I need a motif set, I almost always farm it myself (though for some of the grindier sets like Yokudan, I buy instead). If I need gold improvement mats, I use the ones that I acquire myself through writs and farming. If I needed more potions for a night of vMoL, I'd go run laps in Coldharbor before start time. I use purple Ebon jewelry instead of gold ones. Etc.

And when Homestead launches, I plan to buy just the large Redguard home in Stros M'Kai because aesthetically it's by far my favorite (honestly, I'm surprised that place doesn't cost 3 million) and won't waste my gold on the manors even though I could afford them.

In short, gold is easy to accumulate in this game, as long as you have the discipline to not blow it all as soon as you get it.

Talek wrote: »

I would say it's not about the prices (except manors) but consistency. Why some of the medium houses are bigger than large yet they cost 2,5 less? Why Dunmer medium and Large is pretty much the same. Also compare Forsaken Stronghold and Daggerfall Manor, what is the point of paying 3 x more for the same, with even smaller exterior, i guess only the title. The prices for Manors are ridicoulus because they are *** design, copypasta of existing big buildings in corresponding alliances. Compare them to handycrafted crown only manors, this is something that i can pay 5kk but no it's better to only sell them for 10k+ crowns. For me the existing manors are different than most of large homes (because some of then should be medium) and i would say 1kk for biggest homes are fine price.

There are no crown only manors. The only crown-store exclusive are the cave and the island. Also remember we don't know what the crown prices are yet. Some people are speculating they will be more than 10k crowns, but others are saying the won't sell a single item for more than 5,500 crowns because you'd have to buy 2 crown packs and that would put people off. But it's all guessing, no one but ZOS knows what they will actually cost and they aren't telling.

But more importantly I think all of the houses are the same as existing buildings. I certainly recognised a lot of them. For example the breton medium and large houses are the same as most of the shops and banks in High Rock, just rotated and sometimes the upstairs or the basement is closed off. The dunmer medium house is the same as the tavern where the New Life Festival event takes place. The altmer and khajiit large houses are the same as the Vulkel Guard and Khenathi's Roost banks....and so on. The only ones that looked unfamiliar to me are the orc and Imperial houses, but that's probably because I've barely visited Wrothgar and Cyrodiil.

As for the size vs. price I suspect if you were able to compare the actual floor space (outside space plus the size of each floor in the house) you'd find that the size is consistent with the price. It's just not always obvious.

I was comparing the breton large house (which costs just over 1 million gold) to the orc medium house (which costs just over 300,000) and I thought the medium one was bigger until I started decorating. The breton one is deceptive because the inside is a large T-shape with relatively blank walls, so there's not a lot to give you a sense of perspective until you start filling it up. It's also 3 floors instead of 2 for the orc medium house.

Of course square footage is not the only, or even the most important factor. I actually decided I prefer the orc medium house because it's got a bigger courtyard and the smaller, more oddly shaped rooms are easier for me to decorate. But more money = more space is a fairly standard system in house pricing.

Bryanonymous wrote: »

carlystclair_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

If you don't play the market game, there are plenty of lower tier houses for that. Hate how some people are so entitled to believe everyone should be handed the best stuff when they don't want to put the time in to earn it. You have no idea how much time some of us put into crafting and selling, and now you believe it's not fair that you can't get our rewards. Seriously, buy a low cost house and be happy with it. If everyone had a manor, why even have low end houses? Smh.

I've put 700 hours into this game. I don't and will never have that kind of gold.

Someone might put 700 hours into vet dungeons, but it will not make them emperor. You removed the context of which activity I was referring to with regards to putting in time. There's a player who sits in Rawl zone chat for hours every day. He's also putting time in. Please pay attention to context. If you put 700 hours into playing the market and you don't have 5 million or more in wealth, then you must be giving stuff away for free.

Caps so people understand:
PLAYING THE MARKET IS PART OF THE GAME. IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO PARTICIPATE, THATS NO ONES FAULT BUT YOUR OWN.

And besides the point above, there are plenty of houses for players who choose not to play the market. This entitlement to the best housing is purely ego, which unlike the PvP player who might feel entitled to a monster helm just for playing PvP, you can't raise any point about these houses giving any kind of advantage at all. They are cosmetic and people need to get over it. Some of us played the market game and deserve to have nice rewards for it. Others are just jealous that they didn't, and want to spoil it for everyone.

So be honest...

How is making it more accessible spoiling it for you? LOL, you just want to have that elitist trophy. What you don't understand, is that your are in a very small, yet very vocal minority. If you care about the game, you will want this content accessible to everyone. I am speaking of Large and smaller houses. Keep your Manor trophy. Why do you have a need to block content to other players. Does it really make you upset that everyone can enjoy this content. You should be happy that other people have a chance to obtain housing. Its good for the longevity of the game. The simple fact is that most people can not afford anything over a small house. There is something wrong with the overpriced pay gate. I do agree with the over all sentiment that the minority of rich players need an elitist trophy. Keep the manors as that trophy.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Does anyone know Crown Store prices yet? I am curious if manors will be 4,000 Crowns or 100,000 Crowns. I could easily see ZOS doing something bizarre like making a manor cost less than an Elk mount. But could also see them outdoing themselves in terms of sky high cash shop prices!

My rough guess is that the manors will be 5,000 crowns- like the highest prices they currently have.

OMG NO!

5000 Crowns?!!
Are you serious?!

If they have any brain at all, they won't charge less than 25k.
And if I was in charge of their Crown Store, I'd set them at 100k.

Dubhliam wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Does anyone know Crown Store prices yet? I am curious if manors will be 4,000 Crowns or 100,000 Crowns. I could easily see ZOS doing something bizarre like making a manor cost less than an Elk mount. But could also see them outdoing themselves in terms of sky high cash shop prices!

My rough guess is that the manors will be 5,000 crowns- like the highest prices they currently have.

OMG NO!

5000 Crowns?!!
Are you serious?!

If they have any brain at all, they won't charge less than 25k.
And if I was in charge of their Crown Store, I'd set them at 100k.

Are ya crazy? That is insane real world dollars right there. If they set it that high, that would defeat the purpose. They will male zero dollars and force players to abandon ship by the multitudes. If they want to make money, they will set the price at a reasonable amount. Thank the Gods you are not in charge of the crown store.

edited for quick, rough math, 5500 crowns goes for $40 USD. So you would sell the houses for $180.00 USD... Or if you ran the store for you would sell them for $720. USD...My only response is LOL. You would loose your crown store emperor job fast. No one, no one will pay those prices.

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Does anyone know Crown Store prices yet? I am curious if manors will be 4,000 Crowns or 100,000 Crowns. I could easily see ZOS doing something bizarre like making a manor cost less than an Elk mount. But could also see them outdoing themselves in terms of sky high cash shop prices!

My rough guess is that the manors will be 5,000 crowns- like the highest prices they currently have.

OMG NO!

5000 Crowns?!!
Are you serious?!

If they have any brain at all, they won't charge less than 25k.
And if I was in charge of their Crown Store, I'd set them at 100k.

Are ya crazy? That is insane real world dollars right there. If they set it that high, that would defeat the purpose. They will male zero dollars and force players to abandon ship by the multitudes. If they want to make money, they will set the price at a reasonable amount. Thank the Gods you are not in charge of the crown store.

edited for quick, rough math, 5500 crowns goes for $40 USD. So you would sell the houses for $180.00 USD... Or if you ran the store for you would sell them for $720. USD...My only response is LOL. You would loose your crown store emperor job fast. No one, no one will pay those prices.

5K crowns would be what I'd expect them to price a medium house. You speak as if the large manors are the only houses in the game. They're out of reach for most players with in-game gold, and I expect them to be just as out of reach with real money. And that's fine, I think--most people should be looking at medium-sized homes, anyway.

But let's step back for a moment and look at some of the current pricing...

400 crowns for 10 soul gems
5000 gold for 10 soul gems from the in-game mystic vendor
300 gold for 10 soul gems from the player market (MM average)
Gold-to-Crowns ratio for soul gems: 12.5 if buying at ZOS vendor prices, 0.3 if buying at MM prices

900 crowns for a horse mount
10000 gold for the cheapest horse from the in-game vendor
42700 gold for a "nicer looking" horse from the in-game vendor
Gold-to-Crowns ratio for horses: 11-47

5000 crowns for an Imperial motif
50-60K from the player market
Gold-to-Crowns ratio for Imperial motif: 10-12

2400 crowns for 54 mimic stones
~2000 gold for the most expensive, hard-to-find style mat (excluding CS-exclusive mats)
Gold-to-Crowns ratio for mimic stones: 45

And there are some deals (e.g., Mercenary motif) that are much, much worse. At 5K crowns for a 300K medium house, you're looking at a ratio of 60, which, given the precedent of existing offerings, is quite generous.

code65536 wrote: »

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Does anyone know Crown Store prices yet? I am curious if manors will be 4,000 Crowns or 100,000 Crowns. I could easily see ZOS doing something bizarre like making a manor cost less than an Elk mount. But could also see them outdoing themselves in terms of sky high cash shop prices!

My rough guess is that the manors will be 5,000 crowns- like the highest prices they currently have.

OMG NO!

5000 Crowns?!!
Are you serious?!

If they have any brain at all, they won't charge less than 25k.
And if I was in charge of their Crown Store, I'd set them at 100k.

Are ya crazy? That is insane real world dollars right there. If they set it that high, that would defeat the purpose. They will male zero dollars and force players to abandon ship by the multitudes. If they want to make money, they will set the price at a reasonable amount. Thank the Gods you are not in charge of the crown store.

edited for quick, rough math, 5500 crowns goes for $40 USD. So you would sell the houses for $180.00 USD... Or if you ran the store for you would sell them for $720. USD...My only response is LOL. You would loose your crown store emperor job fast. No one, no one will pay those prices.

5K crowns would be what I'd expect them to price a medium house. You speak as if the large manors are the only houses in the game. They're out of reach for most players with in-game gold, and I expect them to be just as out of reach with real money. And that's fine, I think--most people should be looking at medium-sized homes, anyway.

But let's step back for a moment and look at some of the current pricing...

400 crowns for 10 soul gems
5000 gold for 10 soul gems from the in-game mystic vendor
300 gold for 10 soul gems from the player market (MM average)
Gold-to-Crowns ratio for soul gems: 12.5 if buying at ZOS vendor prices, 0.3 if buying at MM prices

900 crowns for a horse mount
10000 gold for the cheapest horse from the in-game vendor
42700 gold for a "nicer looking" horse from the in-game vendor
Gold-to-Crowns ratio for horses: 11-47

5000 crowns for an Imperial motif
50-60K from the player market
Gold-to-Crowns ratio for Imperial motif: 10-12

2400 crowns for 54 mimic stones
~2000 gold for the most expensive, hard-to-find style mat (excluding CS-exclusive mats)
Gold-to-Crowns ratio for mimic stones: 45

And there are some deals (e.g., Mercenary motif) that are much, much worse. At 5K crowns for a 300K medium house, you're looking at a ratio of 60, which, given the precedent of existing offerings, is quite generous.

You have some really good points. I appreciate your thoughtful post. Only issue I have is the gold to crown ratio. I think the more important ratio is the real cash to crown ratio. Real world money is not really comparable to in game gold. If the houses are priced too high in crowns, they will not sell. That simple. I am not sure what the masses are willing to pay for homes. I know what my price point is. I think in the end ZOS needs to be conservative on the prices. Especially if they want to consider player retention and consumption of the content. Medium houses for 5k, good price? maybe? I'm honestly not sure. Considering that is $40.. USD. Kinda makes you feel a little different. One thing is for sure; no one is going to spend $180-$700 USD on housing.

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

One thing is for sure; no one is going to spend $180-$700 USD on housing.

I most certainly would not. But I'm sure that there are people who would. One thing that Crown Crates (which I personally dislike and refuse to buy) have taught me is that there are people who are perfectly fine with dropping a large sum in the game. Also, keep in mind that housing is a long-term thing. There are new motifs introduced every update. New mounts introduced every few months. But I expect large houses or manors to be things that people will stay in for years.

In any case, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect better ratios at the higher end. 20K crowns for a manor would place that ratio at 185 and would be quite generous relative to the existing the precedents. It would be much more than what I'd spend, but then again, I don't think I'm the target audience for crown-store housing.

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

carlystclair_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

If you don't play the market game, there are plenty of lower tier houses for that. Hate how some people are so entitled to believe everyone should be handed the best stuff when they don't want to put the time in to earn it. You have no idea how much time some of us put into crafting and selling, and now you believe it's not fair that you can't get our rewards. Seriously, buy a low cost house and be happy with it. If everyone had a manor, why even have low end houses? Smh.

I've put 700 hours into this game. I don't and will never have that kind of gold.

Someone might put 700 hours into vet dungeons, but it will not make them emperor. You removed the context of which activity I was referring to with regards to putting in time. There's a player who sits in Rawl zone chat for hours every day. He's also putting time in. Please pay attention to context. If you put 700 hours into playing the market and you don't have 5 million or more in wealth, then you must be giving stuff away for free.

Caps so people understand:
PLAYING THE MARKET IS PART OF THE GAME. IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO PARTICIPATE, THATS NO ONES FAULT BUT YOUR OWN.

And besides the point above, there are plenty of houses for players who choose not to play the market. This entitlement to the best housing is purely ego, which unlike the PvP player who might feel entitled to a monster helm just for playing PvP, you can't raise any point about these houses giving any kind of advantage at all. They are cosmetic and people need to get over it. Some of us played the market game and deserve to have nice rewards for it. Others are just jealous that they didn't, and want to spoil it for everyone.

So be honest...

How is making it more accessible spoiling it for you? LOL, you just want to have that elitist trophy. What you don't understand, is that your are in a very small, yet very vocal minority. If you care about the game, you will want this content accessible to everyone. I am speaking of Large and smaller houses. Keep your Manor trophy. Why do you have a need to block content to other players. Does it really make you upset that everyone can enjoy this content. You should be happy that other people have a chance to obtain housing. Its good for the longevity of the game. The simple fact is that most people can not afford anything over a small house. There is something wrong with the overpriced pay gate. I do agree with the over all sentiment that the minority of rich players need an elitist trophy. Keep the manors as that trophy.

The cheaper houses are not even expensive. I think you have l2p issue, because the content is easily accessible to everyone. No one is blocking you from making gold. Stop whining and start farming.

Here is a relevant poll I created for you to see where the majority stand on this issue:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/313253/hypothetically-how-much-gold-could-you-personally-make-in-a-30-day-period

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I still don't think it's possible to guess what the crown store prices will actually be, but here's an attempt at an 'informed' guess I just thought of. (Edit: And it looks like @code65536 had the same idea while I was writing this!)

There's very few crown store items that can also be bought with gold at a price ZOS has set - most of them are tradable drops, like motifs, where the gold price is set by players - so it's currently hard to get a sense of how they see the exchange rate between gold and crowns. But there are some which can be directly purchases with both gold and crowns.

I think the most comparable of those are the horses. A variant coloured horse with no special effects will cost you 42,500g in-game or 900 crowns in the store. (I checked and all the previously available horses like the dappled grey and the palomino were the same price.)

Which gives us an exchange rate of 47.2g per crown.

If houses use that exchange rate then we get
Apartments: 233 - 275 crowns
Small houses: 848 - 1,547 crowns
Medium houses: 4,025 - 7,098 crowns
Large houses: 16,101 - 27,436 crowns
Manors: 79,979 - 80,191 crowns

Now lets round those up because they never use messy numbers:
Apartments: 250 - 300 crowns
Small houses: 850 - 1,600 crowns
Medium houses: 4,100 - 7,100 crowns
Large houses: 16,100 - 27,500 crowns
Manors: 80,000 - 81,000 crowns

I should point out that the exchange rate is not consistent across the crown store. For example riding lessons at 250g each or 1000c for 10 give a rate of 2.5g per crown and other items will produce other values. I suspect ZOS don't actually use a fixed rate to determine prices when items are sold in both currencies, they probably pick prices they think are appropriate independently of each other. It seems like the amount of gold each crown is worth goes up the more you have to spend on an item, which suggests that the house prices may actually be lower than this.

But if it is based on what they think people would be willing to pay what might happen is that there's less variation - apartments cost more (maybe 500 crowns each) and manors cost less (maybe10,000 each) - which means the end result is likely to be that players feel buying smaller homes with gold is more reasonable but they're pushed towards the crown store for the more expensive ones.

I really hope that is not the case. That rounds up to about $180 to $700 USD. I can not see anyone spending that kind of money for in game housing. That would further alienate the players that can not afford the in game gold prices. We'll know closer to release, lets hope its reasonable.

Only for the most expensive houses. At those prices, and based on buying a 5,500 crown pack an apartment would cost you $2 and a small house would be $12.

I feel like that's another problem with this thread - some people are looking at just the large houses and manors and then complaining that it's too expensive for average players. If you wanted a house for an average family in real life would you only look at mansions? Of course not, you'd look at normal sized houses. Same idea in-game.

(Having said all that I do agree that at those prices the manors would be insanely expensive in real-money, and the apartments would be very cheap. Which is why I said I expect them to scale it so the bigger ones are relatively cheap and the smaller ones are relatively expensive.)

MythicEmperor wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

carlystclair_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

If you don't play the market game, there are plenty of lower tier houses for that. Hate how some people are so entitled to believe everyone should be handed the best stuff when they don't want to put the time in to earn it. You have no idea how much time some of us put into crafting and selling, and now you believe it's not fair that you can't get our rewards. Seriously, buy a low cost house and be happy with it. If everyone had a manor, why even have low end houses? Smh.

I've put 700 hours into this game. I don't and will never have that kind of gold.

Someone might put 700 hours into vet dungeons, but it will not make them emperor. You removed the context of which activity I was referring to with regards to putting in time. There's a player who sits in Rawl zone chat for hours every day. He's also putting time in. Please pay attention to context. If you put 700 hours into playing the market and you don't have 5 million or more in wealth, then you must be giving stuff away for free.

Caps so people understand:
PLAYING THE MARKET IS PART OF THE GAME. IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO PARTICIPATE, THATS NO ONES FAULT BUT YOUR OWN.

And besides the point above, there are plenty of houses for players who choose not to play the market. This entitlement to the best housing is purely ego, which unlike the PvP player who might feel entitled to a monster helm just for playing PvP, you can't raise any point about these houses giving any kind of advantage at all. They are cosmetic and people need to get over it. Some of us played the market game and deserve to have nice rewards for it. Others are just jealous that they didn't, and want to spoil it for everyone.

So be honest...

How is making it more accessible spoiling it for you? LOL, you just want to have that elitist trophy. What you don't understand, is that your are in a very small, yet very vocal minority. If you care about the game, you will want this content accessible to everyone. I am speaking of Large and smaller houses. Keep your Manor trophy. Why do you have a need to block content to other players. Does it really make you upset that everyone can enjoy this content. You should be happy that other people have a chance to obtain housing. Its good for the longevity of the game. The simple fact is that most people can not afford anything over a small house. There is something wrong with the overpriced pay gate. I do agree with the over all sentiment that the minority of rich players need an elitist trophy. Keep the manors as that trophy.

The cheaper houses are not even expensive. I think you have l2p issue, because the content is easily accessible to everyone. No one is blocking you from making gold. Stop whining and start farming.

Here is a relevant poll I created for you to see where the majority stand on this issue:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/313253/hypothetically-how-much-gold-could-you-personally-make-in-a-30-day-period

Shouldn't the devs incentivize completing content, not farming gold?

For some people farming gold is completing content, much as some people prioritise the points that come from achievements or collecting every type of mount.

Different things are important to different people.