Housing too expensive

Artis

Dubhliam wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

...My play time is pretty limited, ...

... but I want to have all achievements.

Well, I don't have a large salary, but I want to own every brand of car, including Lamborghini.

Absolutely irrelevant. It's a game, I'm not supposed to play it as a full-time job. I'm supposed to play it in my free time (and I already spend most of it playing) and be able to get them in reasonable time. It doesn't even matter if I work or not. I should be able to get them in X hours, where X is a set and reasonable number.

Once again, if we wanted to deal with the crap of real life (like not having a nice car without a large salary), then we wouldn't spend so much time in a video game, the whole point of which is to escape reality.

Danikat wrote: »

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The pricing is perfectly fine.

I was sitting at 500k gold last week and wondering which small or medium home to buy. Then I decided to give farming a try to see if I could get 1.3 million gold by patch day. One week later (playing only a few hours a day), and I already hit my target. It's ridiculously easy to make money in this game if you know what you're doing.

As the poster above said, furnishing costs are what will sink you. Furnishing a large home will easily cost as much as the house itself.

It is not ridiculously easy for everyone to make that much money so fast. Its just not. You represent a very small part, yet very very loud part of the community. The majority of players do not have access to that kind of gold. Making houses more affordable helps everyone. Making them more expensive helps you, and only you. Making them affordable hurts no one, and has no effect on your gameplay.

I still don't see a problem here. If you don't think you can get enough gold to buy a large house then you buy a medium or small one, or an apartment. If even the 11,000g needed for an apartment seems like too much you can use the free inn rooms.

the problem was stated again and again - there are titles/achievements locked by those houses. And they can't be called achievements for those who enjoy the economics game, because you can get them with crowns.

Danikat

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Is there a list of the Crown Store prices anywhere?

No one (except ZOS) knows the crown store prices yet.

On the PTS they all cost 1 crown, which is what all crown store items cost. And ZOS haven't said what the real prices will be.

Some people are speculating that the gold prices are high to push people to use the crown store but I really wouldn't be surprised if once it's released the crown prices are so expensive that suddenly gold will look like the better choice again.

willlienellson

What's interesting is how this is going to permanently and specifically create a real world DOLLAR VALUE for in-game gold.

Because this is the first crown store item that is also available for in-game gold, but sold exclusively by Zos without interaction with the game economy.

Something like an Imperial Motif had a gold value that fluctuated based on the game economy and so there was no permanent "exchange rate" between gold and crowns.

The house prices are set, so you will immediately know the real-world currency value of gold by comparing the cost of the homes with gold to the cost with crowns and the dollar cost of crowns.

I feel like if Zos makes the crown cost too high, this could become a boon for gold sellers.

If a 3.4 million gold house costs 3000 crowns, and a pack of 3000 crowns sells for $24.99, then that means that 1 million game gold is worth $7.35 cents. (24.99/3.4 mil)

But if a 3.4 million gold house costs 12,000 crowns, then 1 million game gold is worth $29.40 ($99.96/3.4 mil)
Which scenario do you think is going to lead to more gold sellers, bots, etc?

krathos

Artis wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

...My play time is pretty limited, ...

... but I want to have all achievements.

Well, I don't have a large salary, but I want to own every brand of car, including Lamborghini.

Absolutely irrelevant. It's a game, I'm not supposed to play it as a full-time job. I'm supposed to play it in my free time (and I already spend most of it playing) and be able to get them in reasonable time. It doesn't even matter if I work or not. I should be able to get them in X hours, where X is a set and reasonable number.

Once again, if we wanted to deal with the crap of real life (like not having a nice car without a large salary), then we wouldn't spend so much time in a video game, the whole point of which is to escape reality.

Danikat wrote: »

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The pricing is perfectly fine.

I was sitting at 500k gold last week and wondering which small or medium home to buy. Then I decided to give farming a try to see if I could get 1.3 million gold by patch day. One week later (playing only a few hours a day), and I already hit my target. It's ridiculously easy to make money in this game if you know what you're doing.

As the poster above said, furnishing costs are what will sink you. Furnishing a large home will easily cost as much as the house itself.

It is not ridiculously easy for everyone to make that much money so fast. Its just not. You represent a very small part, yet very very loud part of the community. The majority of players do not have access to that kind of gold. Making houses more affordable helps everyone. Making them more expensive helps you, and only you. Making them affordable hurts no one, and has no effect on your gameplay.

I still don't see a problem here. If you don't think you can get enough gold to buy a large house then you buy a medium or small one, or an apartment. If even the 11,000g needed for an apartment seems like too much you can use the free inn rooms.

the problem was stated again and again - there are titles/achievements locked by those houses. And they can't be called achievements for those who enjoy the economics game, because you can get them with crowns.

Whiny entitled gamers who want everything easily accessible and served to them on a silver platter is what continues to water down this game and many others. It's a game, yes, but that does not in any way mean every single achievement should be easily accessible to you.

Something tells me you haven't spent much time on the PTS. If you can't even imagine scrounging up 3.5 million gold for the purchase cost you're never going to be able to properly furnish the thing anyways.

That said, I understand your issue with the crown purchase stuff. I don't like cash shops in general. But this system overall is incredibly fair and reasonable.

Danikat

willlienellson wrote: »

What's interesting is how this is going to permanently and specifically create a real world DOLLAR VALUE for in-game gold.

Because this is the first crown store item that is also available for in-game gold, but sold exclusively by Zos without interaction with the game economy.

Something like an Imperial Motif had a gold value that fluctuated based on the game economy and so there was no permanent "exchange rate" between gold and crowns.

The house prices are set, so you will immediately know the real-world currency value of gold by comparing the cost of the homes with gold to the cost with crowns and the dollar cost of crowns.

I feel like if Zos makes the crown cost too high, this could become a boon for gold sellers.

If a 3.4 million gold house costs 3000 crowns, and a pack of 3000 crowns sells for $24.99, then that means that 1 million game gold is worth $7.35 cents. (24.99/3.4 mil)

But if a 3.4 million gold house costs 12,000 crowns, then 1 million game gold is worth $29.40 ($99.96/3.4 mil)
Which scenario do you think is going to lead to more gold sellers, bots, etc?

It's not the first crown store item to also be available for gold from ZOS. There's also Bank & bag upgrades, Riding lessons, Skill & Attribute respecs and Horses. (Ok the horses aren't identical, but other than the colour/pattern there's no difference and whether a horse with brown patches is better than one with black patches, or a black one with a white mane is better than an all black one etc. is entirely a matter of opinion.)

The problem is that the 'exchange rate' based on those items is not consistent. Bank and bag upgrades and the skill and attribute respecs are obviously problematic because the gold price increases as you go along (for each upgrade for storage and with your level for respecs).

But even excluding those it doesn't work. The crown store horses without flashy effects have all cost 900 crowns, and 3 of 4 in-game ones cost 42,500g. Which gives an exchange rate of 47.2g per crown. If you assume someone's buying 5,500 crown packs at $39.99 that means 1 million gold is worth $154.

The riding lessons on the other hand cost 250g each, or 1,000 crowns for 10. Which gives an exchange rate of 2.5g per crown. Again assuming purchase of a 5,500 crown pack at $39.99 that means 1 million gold is worth $2,908.36.

Basically how much gold you get for your crowns and therefore your real money depends on what you buy with it. Housing will add another exchange rate to the existing ones, but it's not the first time one has existed.

Bladerunner1

Danikat wrote: »

The problem is that the 'exchange rate' based on those items is not consistent. Bank and bag upgrades and the skill and attribute respecs are obviously problematic because the gold price increases as you go along (for each upgrade for storage and with your level for respecs).

But even excluding those it doesn't work. The crown store horses without flashy effects have all cost 900 crowns, and 3 of 4 in-game ones cost 42,500g. Which gives an exchange rate of 47.2g per crown. If you assume someone's buying 5,500 crown packs at $39.99 that means 1 million gold is worth $154.

The riding lessons on the other hand cost 250g each, or 1,000 crowns for 10. Which gives an exchange rate of 2.5g per crown. Again assuming purchase of a 5,500 crown pack at $39.99 that means 1 million gold is worth $2,908.36.

The 10 pack riding lesson is all about skipping ahead 10 days and getting something very useful now rather than later, so even it it were 10 GP per lesson some people would still buy it with crowns.

ZOS would've done research to find a point where they make more money on things like bag space, bank space and plain horses, but those actually enhance the experience for everyone, so perhaps 40-50 GP/crown works on those things.

Housing on the other hand is pretty much all about looks, it's not for everyone. I think the ratio of GP/crown for a house would have to change quite a lot compared to a bank space upgrade for them to maximize profit, otherwise people would be more likely to just shrug it off entirely and play the rest of the game.

Nuntjako

castigulaub17_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The pricing is perfectly fine.

I was sitting at 500k gold last week and wondering which small or medium home to buy. Then I decided to give farming a try to see if I could get 1.3 million gold by patch day. One week later (playing only a few hours a day), and I already hit my target. It's ridiculously easy to make money in this game if you know what you're doing.

As the poster above said, furnishing costs are what will sink you. Furnishing a large home will easily cost as much as the house itself.

It is not ridiculously easy for everyone to make that much money so fast. Its just not. You represent a very small part, yet very very loud part of the community. The majority of players do not have access to that kind of gold. Making houses more affordable helps everyone. Making them more expensive helps you, and only you. Making them affordable hurts no one, and has no effect on your gameplay.

Yes it is. Why is it that you can't make that kind of gold when others can? People in this thread has written how they do it. There are plenty of threads and YouTube videos that explain how to easily make a lot of gold within a few hours.

I had the same outlook as you once. I couldn't understand how some of my guildies had millions and I had zip. I figured it was because they played the game a lot more than me. That was untill I learned how to earn gold.

I consider myself a casual player. Casual in the amount of hours I play this game at least With a job and wife and kids I only play a few times a week. If I can earn 500.000gold a week and still have time for dungeons and pvp, so can you!

Tapio75

I dont mind big houses and mansions being expensive, people who really are poor and without job but have lots of time to grind gold for expensive digital house deserve to feel goo at least in the virtual world ;P

But i think there should be hundreds of small shacks and tents and such that cost from few hundred to few thousand.

Danikat

Tapio75 wrote: »

I dont mind big houses and mansions being expensive, people who really are poor and without job but have lots of time to grind gold for expensive digital house deserve to feel goo at least in the virtual world ;P

But i think there should be hundreds of small shacks and tents and such that cost from few hundred to few thousand.

A tent or a small shack would be interesting for novelty/role-playing purposes, and if housing had more practical functions (like being safer than logging off in the wilderness) then a portable house could be an amazing option, even a tiny one.

But I don't see the point in offering it as a cheap option when there's already 3 inn rooms which are completely free. Admittedly the AD one is about the size of a tent, but other than that it has all the functionality of the bigger houses and costs nothing.

Then the cheapest paid inn room is 11,000. That's 1k more than the basic horse (which everyone seems confident they can afford sooner or later) and less than most bank upgrades. The small houses and up do seem expensive if you're new or otherwise don't normally have much gold (I think the most I've ever had at once is 20,000, half the cost of the cheapest small house) but if you look at it as a long-term goal, and use the free ones in the mean time I don't think it's a problem.

Nickernator

The prices for houses are fine, but the prices for furniture are too high, especially the required materials to craft furniture.

Mojmir

Danikat wrote: »

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Is there a list of the Crown Store prices anywhere?

No one (except ZOS) knows the crown store prices yet.

On the PTS they all cost 1 crown, which is what all crown store items cost. And ZOS haven't said what the real prices will be.

Some people are speculating that the gold prices are high to push people to use the crown store but I really wouldn't be surprised if once it's released the crown prices are so expensive that suddenly gold will look like the better choice again.

Not entirely true, some insider information is being passed around. Believe me or not, it's been the case for a long time. Let's just say the biggest homes will be for "trade guild" rich folk and crown store whales.

MLGProPlayer

Tapio75 wrote: »

But i think there should be hundreds of small shacks and tents and such that cost from few hundred to few thousand.

The small houses and apartments are already dirt cheap, ranging from 11,000 to 73,000 gold. You can literally make 11,000 gold by just doing two pledges and then selling all the junk you got from the runs.

You also have the inn rooms, which you get for free. If you want one in a different location, it's 3,000 gold.

Danikat

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You also have the inn rooms, which you get for free. If you want one in a different location, it's 3,000 gold.

You can get all 3 for free, you just need a character in the relevant alliance. And with One Tamriel you can make a brand new character, complete that quest straight away (surviving the delve might be tricky if it's a quiet time and you don't get any equipment) and then delete them. Houses are account-wide so it'll be accessible to all your other characters.

idk

Wolfkeks wrote: »

I'm poor and I'm proud of it!!

Nah, I think prices are okay, yep not everyone can get the mansion, but everyone can at least buy something
There is a house for everyone

+1

Artis

krathos wrote: »

Whiny entitled gamers who want everything easily accessible and served to them on a silver platter is what continues to water down this game and many others. It's a game, yes, but that does not in any way mean every single achievement should be easily accessible to you.

Something tells me you haven't spent much time on the PTS. If you can't even imagine scrounging up 3.5 million gold for the purchase cost you're never going to be able to properly furnish the thing anyways.

That said, I understand your issue with the crown purchase stuff. I don't like cash shops in general. But this system overall is incredibly fair and reasonable.

Good try getting those agrees by calling others names. But didn't work this time, your cause is wrong

It's not about entitlement. I've been playing since pre-release. Yeah, I do have gold to buy a manor. That's not the point. The point is, that in 3 years I havent' gotten enough to get all of them. And that's exactly what I need if there're any achievements associated with them.

Obviously, there's 1 house for everyone. But the separate goals in game must be possible to complete within reasonable time. How am I entitled? I'm not asking to give me everything. I'm just reminding that it's a game.

Cody_svk

Yes, they are expensive, but that is the point...What would be the point in small and medium houses if everyone could afford large ones? I like it this way better, because it will not look like GTA where everyone has the most expensive car, because anyone can afford them...

Danikat

Artis wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Whiny entitled gamers who want everything easily accessible and served to them on a silver platter is what continues to water down this game and many others. It's a game, yes, but that does not in any way mean every single achievement should be easily accessible to you.

Something tells me you haven't spent much time on the PTS. If you can't even imagine scrounging up 3.5 million gold for the purchase cost you're never going to be able to properly furnish the thing anyways.

That said, I understand your issue with the crown purchase stuff. I don't like cash shops in general. But this system overall is incredibly fair and reasonable.

Good try getting those agrees by calling others names. But didn't work this time, your cause is wrong

It's not about entitlement. I've been playing since pre-release. Yeah, I do have gold to buy a manor. That's not the point. The point is, that in 3 years I havent' gotten enough to get all of them. And that's exactly what I need if there're any achievements associated with them.

Obviously, there's 1 house for everyone. But the separate goals in game must be possible to complete within reasonable time. How am I entitled? I'm not asking to give me everything. I'm just reminding that it's a game.

I think saying all in-game goals or achievements should be completed within a reasonable amount of time is over-simplifying it.

I've been playing for over 2 years and I've never even come close to getting the Emperor achievement, title and costume. Does that mean the requirements are totally unreasonable and need to be changed? Does it mean I don't believe anyone could do it in less than 2 years without making that one goal their full-time job?

No, of course not. Because I know there's much more important factors affecting it. In those 2 years I've entered Cyrodiil once and that was just to get some skyshards. I did not participate in PvP at all except to get killed by gankers at one point. Therefore the amount of time I've been playing is irrelevant because it's not an achievement for spending a certain amount of time in-game. The reason I haven't got it is that I haven't been doing anything that contributes to me doing it. If I had I might well have gotten it by now (or I might not, I don't know because I haven't tried).

Also the number of real-life years, months or days you've been playing aren't even a particularly helpful measure of time put into the game. I've been playing for 2 years, but I've taken long breaks and there's been some periods when I wasn't taking a break from the game but just didn't get around to logging in for a week or so. I don't know what my total hours played are but I suspect it's far lower than many people got in their first 2 years.

It's the same here - the requirements to buy a house aren't to have owned an account for a certain number of months or years ('reasonable' or otherwise) - the requirements are to complete specific quests or achievements and own a certain amount of gold. How close any individual player is to meeting those requirements has far more to do with what they do in game than how many years they've owned an account.

It's definitely possible to make a case that the price of the houses is too high (and/or the other requirements are too demanding), several people have done it in this topic. But not based on how long you've been playing.

clegg

Since extra storage is not offered, I find housing a waste of time and money.

Artis

Danikat wrote: »

I think saying all in-game goals or achievements should be completed within a reasonable amount of time is over-simplifying it.

I've been playing for over 2 years and I've never even come close to getting the Emperor achievement, title and costume. Does that mean the requirements are totally unreasonable and need to be changed? Does it mean I don't believe anyone could do it in less than 2 years without making that one goal their full-time job?

No, of course not. Because I know there's much more important factors affecting it. In those 2 years I've entered Cyrodiil once and that was just to get some skyshards. I did not participate in PvP at all except to get killed by gankers at one point. Therefore the amount of time I've been playing is irrelevant because it's not an achievement for spending a certain amount of time in-game. The reason I haven't got it is that I haven't been doing anything that contributes to me doing it. If I had I might well have gotten it by now (or I might not, I don't know because I haven't tried).

Also the number of real-life years, months or days you've been playing aren't even a particularly helpful measure of time put into the game. I've been playing for 2 years, but I've taken long breaks and there's been some periods when I wasn't taking a break from the game but just didn't get around to logging in for a week or so. I don't know what my total hours played are but I suspect it's far lower than many people got in their first 2 years.

It's the same here - the requirements to buy a house aren't to have owned an account for a certain number of months or years ('reasonable' or otherwise) - the requirements are to complete specific quests or achievements and own a certain amount of gold. How close any individual player is to meeting those requirements has far more to do with what they do in game than how many years they've owned an account.

It's definitely possible to make a case that the price of the houses is too high (and/or the other requirements are too demanding), several people have done it in this topic. But not based on how long you've been playing.

Emperor is something else, there are players actively interfering and trying not to let you get it.

Every other achievement should be completeable within a reasonable amount of time, yes. If you're doing things that can give you credit for it, of course. And I've been playing since release without long breaks. Still, not even close to getting Count.

Akrasjel

It's all a matter of perspective