PTS Feedback Thread for Frost Staff Tanking

Sinolai · January 2017

I once made a thread like this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/300287/possible-changes-for-abilities-and-classification-of-weapons-for-the-future#latest

While I am excited to test new magicka tanks, 2 handed frost staff might not be the best way to implement it and definietly not in fully charged heavy attack. Pherhaps you should consider creating new 1 handed magic weapons and magic off-hand items (eg. wands & talismans) for magic tanking?

Thornen · January 2017

Eas007 wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Doesn't take a genius to figure out perma-block would be back with this so why did you put it in @Wrobel ?

Frost staff bar 1
Sword and Board bar 2

Perma block.

I feel a Blockplar meta coming...

Heavy armour blockplar bol spamming is already meta it just got a permablock upgrade. If you think pvp is in a bad state now wait till these changes go live.

santrasa · January 2017

Sinolai wrote: »

I once made a thread like this:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/300287/possible-changes-for-abilities-and-classification-of-weapons-for-the-future#latest

While I am excited to test new magicka tanks, 2 handed frost staff might not be the best way to implement it and definietly not in fully charged heavy attack. Pherhaps you should consider creating new 1 handed magic weapons and magic off-hand items (eg. wands & talismans) for magic tanking?

I completely agree.

Woeler · January 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Change is really good, i like a lot to have magicka tank and finally frost staff will have some use.

But please give Armor Piercing like skill + minor Heroism.

This is going to open a new chapter for magicka DPS/Tanks build.

I underestimated this change before but its really good, also u need to add ultimate morph bonuss to be tank relevant.

Also change taunt passive to increaae Spell/physical resistance bonus to mitigate shield absence.
.

Lets abolish sword and shield too while we're at it.

Beruge · January 2017

First you break my magplars legs with the massive nerf (ritual of retribution and blazing spear). Then you throw a facepunch by breaking my ice staff builds with it aswell. How are you guys even thinking?

UppGRAYxDD · January 2017

Only frost related tanking reference should be permafrost set on a templar. I see no usefulness to this change to froststaff in pve and maybe a few fun builds on pvp.

Zerok · January 2017

Staff tanking will just look silly because it does not make sense.

If you want to have more magicka tanks, I would suggest adding magicka morphs to the puncture and low slash skills in the one-handed and shield skill line.

Let's face it, right now ransack is only used because of an oversight (supposedly removing elemental drain) and deep slash is not used at all.

Flameheart · January 2017

Eas007 wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Doesn't take a genius to figure out perma-block would be back with this so why did you put it in @Wrobel ?

Frost staff bar 1
Sword and Board bar 2

Perma block.

I feel a Blockplar meta coming...

Some bosses in PvE love it when you do bar swaps :-)

amasuriel · January 2017

First, I love the idea and adding some variety, unlike some very boring people

But as some other have commented, there are some serious issues.

1) Taunt on Heavy Attack. Not only will this be way to slow in any even remotely difficult content (you might say just use other taunts then) the more serious issue is overtaunting when you need resources back. One skill a good tank has is knowing the windows where they can sneak in a heavy attack to get back some resources. With taunt on attack, this will be almost impossible, since it has to be timed with other taunts. This means unless you are running staff on both bars, no heavy attack for damage or resource recovery for you. I think that is a big issue.

I agree the taunt needs to be added to some other skill, or even just removed (people can use undaunted) and the frost staff heavy be something else.

2) Breach and Fracture. The fact that taunting also applies these debuffs with sword and shield is huge. People running frost staff will have to apply them separately, usually with 2 different skills (elemental drain and a class skill usually). Its not impossible, but it's certainly cumbersome, and another reason why people won't like grouping with frost tanks, because these debuffs won't be as reliably applied.

The sad truth is, if frost tanking is noticeably worse than sword and shield tanking, especially for end game content like trials and vet DLC dungeons, it will be better not to have it in the game at all. If its noticeably worse for the role it's only place will be DPS queuing as tanks in group finder, and there will be a ton of toxicity directed at anyone seen wielding a frost staff in any group content. It will become the same as when you see a fully heavy armor DPS in PvE with 30k health, and you try and figure out if you should just leave or try to kick them before you start vWGT.

I want this to work, because I think its cool, unique to MMOs and very elder scrolls, but again, if it ends up way worse than sword and shield with it's only niche being "DPS who can kinda tank easy bosses", better to not poison the well.

Sharee · January 2017

[double post]

Brrrofski · January 2017

The key thing is how do you stop noobs using a heavy staff attack and drawing aggro.

If you want it to even remotely work, a skill needs to Tau the and apply the two major debuffs. One of the morphs of front clench would probably be fine. Dropping block to charge a now even slower heavy attack to taunt? No thanks.

Thing is, it's not needed in Pve. You can tank effectively with 20k stamina thanks to tools to convert resources. Sword and shield will always be superior due to a lot of buff skills cost magica, plus it allows you to use 5/5/monster.

Basically, all this will do is enable even more permablock in PvP. Just want we needed!

Sharee · January 2017

amasuriel wrote: »

1) Taunt on Heavy Attack. Not only will this be way to slow in any even remotely difficult content (you might say just use other taunts then) the more serious issue is overtaunting when you need resources back. One skill a good tank has is knowing the windows where they can sneak in a heavy attack to get back some resources. With taunt on attack, this will be almost impossible, since it has to be timed with other taunts. This means unless you are running staff on both bars, no heavy attack for damage or resource recovery for you. I think that is a big issue.

As far as i know, overtaunting is a thing of the past. It is not possible to overtaunt a mob as long as only one person is doing the taunting.

amasuriel wrote: »

2) Breach and Fracture. The fact that taunting also applies these debuffs with sword and shield is huge. People running frost staff will have to apply them separately, usually with 2 different skills (elemental drain and a class skill usually). Its not impossible, but it's certainly cumbersome, and another reason why people won't like grouping with frost tanks, because these debuffs won't be as reliably applied.

The staff is meant for magicka tanks, and their taunt (inner rage) already does not apply any debuffs.

Cronopoly · January 2017

We like where you guys are going with this, however to make it work seamlessly is to put the "Taunt" on one of the Active Frost Abilities, not on the slow Heavy attack. Take your pick. There's 5 abilities.

My choice would be the (Frost) "Weakness to Elements/Morphs" as a Frost Taunt that provides phys & or spell penetration.

This way it would not be a net loss coming from S&B. Additionally weakness to elements does no damage itself and this "may" allay some fears about Tremorscale.

I have only seen it proc on Frost Heavy in PVE, not PVP. Though everyone is theorycrafting it's potential unconfirmed use.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Cronopoly "Unpaid consultant # 5"

psychotic13 · January 2017

I just can't see it working, as mentioned having to fully charge a heavy to taunt could be the death of you.

Also a big problem would be that we can't run two 5pc sets and a monster set like the typical tank set up

I think that if this is to work, it needs its own skill line and passives, it's a must.

TheValkyn · January 2017

Maybe I'm not understanding why we can't just use inner fire (Undaunted Skill) as our taunt? Make it the first ability you get in the undaunted skill line. There's no need for heavy attacks to taunt.

All of this drama over heavy attacks is unnecessary.

evedgebah · January 2017

Heavy Attack Taunt: Impractical to utilize. Taunting needs to be fast. Heavy attacks are too slow. Also, this prevents Ice Staves from being used in PVE content by those not wishing to be tanks. While often not the optimal for damage, Ice Staff attacks and their roots/snares were very fun and powerful in the right situations.

Magicka for Blocking: This is dangerously overpowered in PVP for all the reasons mentioned above. Magicka regeneration is far easier than Stamina, and this also allows a dual-specced player to have unprecedented sustain as one could simply swap from a Sword & Board to Staff when one area was depleted.

Personal Utility: Losing a set bonus from possibility of 5/5/2 greatly hampers any player's ability. This is one of the reasons why dual-wield is so popular even amongst casters.

Group Utility: The frost staff lacks easily available Fracture/Breach, Minor Heroism. These buffs/debuffs are not readily available from many good sources (and poisons are unreliable and cannot be counted on to have enough up-time to be an effective substitution).

I would LOVE for Frost Staff to have more of a defensive role (even be used for tanking), but as others have suggested, for PVE at least, it simply cannot compete. In PVP, the way things are set up, it seems to be incredibly powerful in terms of resource sustain.

Silver_Strider · January 2017

The only way I can even begin to support this change is if Fire, Ice and Shock staves all become their own independent skill lines, with their own skills and passives.

From there, it becomes much easier to actually make the Ice Staff a tank based Weapon instead of this oddball mixture of DPS/Tank.

Sedrethi · January 2017

Probably been said already in the thread, but I'm having trouble comprehending why there is now a tanking playstyle being used with the DESTRUCTION school of magic.

If you're trying to give Frost Damage something unique, I would think something like allowing it to deal both Frost and Physical Damage simultaneously would make a little more sense than tanking. I imagine being impaled by an icy shiv or having cracked ribs from a chunk of ice would be both magically and physically destructive.

Regardless, most of the reasoning in this thread concerning Frost tanking vs. One-hand and Shield tanking has already been said for me.

Liofa · January 2017

Hey . First of all , this is my first time commenting on Frost Staff tanking . I had to test it first . Second , I really want to support you on this because when you start something , you don't cancel it easily . So , better to give suggestions rather than complaining , right ? I want to talk about some certain topics . Everything I say is tested and used several times in PTS by myself . Let's start .

1- Why Frost Staff is changed to tanking weapon ?

It is really obvious . Because it was the most useless weapon is PvE . Literally , there was no reason to use it . People who used it were roleplayers who don't even bother to read passives . People complained that they can't do heavy attack with frost staff anymore . Well , first passive clearly says Flame Staff does 12% more damage . This was just an example . I don't care about people who used it as a DPS weapon in PvE . They chose the wrong weapon from start , should have known better . Shock was still being used for AOE DPS and flame is the best for single target obviously . This is why they chose Frost staff . It wasn't being used as a DPS or Healer , so , only other choice is tank . It was obvious that you didn't want it to be the best DPS weapon , so no one should be complaining from PvE side .

Looking from PvP perspective , frost staff still can be used for perma root and now gives reduced cost for blocking . Only disadvantage is not every attack being a snare . Snare can be applied with a lot of things so I don't see a harm in that . Again , it was the least used weapon in PvP too . Comparing previous passives with the new ones from a PvP perspective , I think new ones are better . 30% block cost reduction is amazing for a Magicka character and no one can deny that .

2- Blocking Animation and Magicka Shield

So the animation for blocking with frost staff . When I block with a frost staff , I consume Magicka . When I block with Flame staff , I consume Stamina . The animation is same . I block with a wooden stick . Why the consumed resource is different ? Frost Staff MUST have a different animation for blocking . Creating a magical shield around you for example . Otherwise , it doesn't make sense .

3- Permablocking with Frost Staff

It is possible . At least in PvE . I am using Spell Symmetry (considered one of the most useless skills) on my DK tank . I like it . I can spam any magicka skill anytime I want . It is nice skill when used correctly . This skill will allow every class to permablock as long as there is healing incoming . I don't know if this was the intention but I like what you did there . Making it possible to permablock with every class is a nice change . Even if someone doesn't use this skill , they can still tank with Minor Magickasteal and Magicka Orb support .

It is definitely can be used as a off-bar weapon . For those who have issues with Stamina sustain can slot a Frost Staff on back bar and when they run out of stamina , they can change bars and they are good with Magicka . They let their Stamina to regenerate and go back to 1h/s . Easy .

4- Comparing Frost Staff to 1h/s

This is the biggest issue for me . Even though I will definitely test it in a trial environment (when EU characters are copied) as a front bar weapon to see how it goes , I don't see a reason to do other than that .

a) Permablocking with 1h/s is easy and to be able to permablock , you don't need a Frost Staff . Of course as I said before , other classes can do that now easier with a caring healer .

No suggestion here , it is all good for anyone who has a decent build .

b) Debuffs applied are the biggest problem of Frost Staff . Ok , let's see . 1h/s can provide Minor Maim with 100% uptime (12 seconds duration) with an extra of Minor Heroism . Frost Staff needs to damage target and can only apply Minor Maim with a small chance for 5 seconds with not guaranteed uptime . Using Frost Staff steals 1 extra item slot which hurts the debuffing/buffing potential . While Frost Staff doesn't reduce any armor , 1h/s applies both Spell and Physical Major Resist debuffs . That means 10% damage boost to both Magicka and Stamina DDs .

My suggestion is , giving Frost Staff some nice debuffs . Every skill of Destruction Staff tree applies Chilled . Maybe make some skills reduce armor when target is Chilled ? Or have them take increased damage from critical hits ? Without debuffs like this , Frost Staff have no reason to be used as a tank .

c) Item trait is an issue as well . I use a Infused 1h right now for maximum amount of armor reduction . If I do that with a Frost Staff , I will have really low resistances which is an issue while main tanking . If I use Defending , I will have enough Resistances (about 2k more than 1h/s to be exact) but my Crusher enchant will be almost useless . There is a big difference between Infused and Defending weapon when it comes to armor reduction potential of Crusher enchant . If I have both armor reduction and Resistance values with 1h/s , why would I use Frost Staff ?

My suggestion from the above still applies . Another suggestion could be giving Frost Staff a cooldown reduction on the enchant . 6 seconds instead of 10 maybe ? It has the cooldown of Infused 1h but doesn't have the increased armor reduction value of it .

d) With the heavy attack change , you are giving us a free range taunt with casting time . I appreciate the free part but a tank needs to be precise with timing . If I can't taunt immediately and need to wait 2-3 seconds , there is a big possibility of messing up . Also , that 2-3 seconds are impossible to get in certain fights like axes in AA . Simply put , I don't see a reason to use the heavy attack taunt while there is already a range taunt with instant cast . A tank should always have resources for anything at any moment so Inner Fire is definitely the better choice in any situation even though it takes a skill slot .

Suggestion : Put it into a skill . Best bet should be a instant skill . Destructive Touch seems like good choice .

To sum up , Frost Staff makes us lose so much compared to what it gives . Give it some unique and useful buffs/debuffs so we can at least use it on back bar . I really like the build diversity potential here , so please , make it cover the disadvantages it gives so we can actually want to use it .

Cheers ,

Liofa

Doctordarkspawn · January 2017

Liofa wrote: »

Hey . First of all , this is my first time commenting on Frost Staff tanking . I had to test it first . Second , I really want to support you on this because when you start something , you don't cancel it easily . So , better to give suggestions rather than complaining , right ? I want to talk about some certain topics . Everything I say is tested and used several times in PTS by myself . Let's start .

1- Why Frost Staff is changed to tanking weapon ?

It is really obvious . Because it was the most useless weapon is PvE . Literally , there was no reason to use it . People who used it were roleplayers who don't even bother to read passives . People complained that they can't do heavy attack with frost staff anymore . Well , first passive clearly says Flame Staff does 12% more damage . This was just an example . I don't care about people who used it as a DPS weapon in PvE . They chose the wrong weapon from start , should have known better . Shock was still being used for AOE DPS and flame is the best for single target obviously . This is why they chose Frost staff . It wasn't being used as a DPS or Healer , so , only other choice is tank . It was obvious that you didn't want it to be the best DPS weapon , so no one should be complaining from PvE side .

Looking from PvP perspective , frost staff still can be used for perma root and now gives reduced cost for blocking . Only disadvantage is not every attack being a snare . Snare can be applied with a lot of things so I don't see a harm in that . Again , it was the least used weapon in PvP too . Comparing previous passives with the new ones from a PvP perspective , I think new ones are better . 30% block cost reduction is amazing for a Magicka character and no one can deny that .

2- Blocking Animation and Magicka Shield

So the animation for blocking with frost staff . When I block with a frost staff , I consume Magicka . When I block with Flame staff , I consume Stamina . The animation is same . I block with a wooden stick . Why the consumed resource is different ? Frost Staff MUST have a different animation for blocking . Creating a magical shield around you for example . Otherwise , it doesn't make sense .

3- Permablocking with Frost Staff

It is possible . At least in PvE . I am using Spell Symmetry (considered one of the most useless skills) on my DK tank . I like it . I can spam any magicka skill anytime I want . It is nice skill when used correctly . This skill will allow every class to permablock as long as there is healing incoming . I don't know if this was the intention but I like what you did there . Making it possible to permablock with every class is a nice change . Even if someone doesn't use this skill , they can still tank with Minor Magickasteal and Magicka Orb support .

It is definitely can be used as a off-bar weapon . For those who have issues with Stamina sustain can slot a Frost Staff on back bar and when they run out of stamina , they can change bars and they are good with Magicka . They let their Stamina to regenerate and go back to 1h/s . Easy .

4- Comparing Frost Staff to 1h/s

This is the biggest issue for me . Even though I will definitely test it in a trial environment (when EU characters are copied) as a front bar weapon to see how it goes , I don't see a reason to do other than that .

a) Permablocking with 1h/s is easy and to be able to permablock , you don't need a Frost Staff . Of course as I said before , other classes can do that now easier with a caring healer .

No suggestion here , it is all good for anyone who has a decent build .

b) Debuffs applied are the biggest problem of Frost Staff . Ok , let's see . 1h/s can provide Minor Maim with 100% uptime (12 seconds duration) with an extra of Minor Heroism . Frost Staff needs to damage target and can only apply Minor Maim with a small chance for 5 seconds with not guaranteed uptime . Using Frost Staff steals 1 extra item slot which hurts the debuffing/buffing potential . While Frost Staff doesn't reduce any armor , 1h/s applies both Spell and Physical Major Resist debuffs . That means 10% damage boost to both Magicka and Stamina DDs .

My suggestion is , giving Frost Staff some nice debuffs . Every skill of Destruction Staff tree applies Chilled . Maybe make some skills reduce armor when target is Chilled ? Or have them take increased damage from critical hits ? Without debuffs like this , Frost Staff have no reason to be used as a tank .

c) Item trait is an issue as well . I use a Infused 1h right now for maximum amount of armor reduction . If I do that with a Frost Staff , I will have really low resistances which is an issue while main tanking . If I use Defending , I will have enough Resistances (about 2k more than 1h/s to be exact) but my Crusher enchant will be almost useless . There is a big difference between Infused and Defending weapon when it comes to armor reduction potential of Crusher enchant . If I have both armor reduction and Resistance values with 1h/s , why would I use Frost Staff ?

My suggestion from the above still applies . Another suggestion could be giving Frost Staff a cooldown reduction on the enchant . 6 seconds instead of 10 maybe ? It has the cooldown of Infused 1h but doesn't have the increased armor reduction value of it .

d) With the heavy attack change , you are giving us a free range taunt with casting time . I appreciate the free part but a tank needs to be precise with timing . If I can't taunt immediately and need to wait 2-3 seconds , there is a big possibility of messing up . Also , that 2-3 seconds are impossible to get in certain fights like axes in AA . Simply put , I don't see a reason to use the heavy attack taunt while there is already a range taunt with instant cast . A tank should always have resources for anything at any moment so Inner Fire is definitely the better choice in any situation even though it takes a skill slot .

Suggestion : Put it into a skill . Best bet should be a instant skill . Destructive Touch seems like good choice .

To sum up , Frost Staff makes us lose so much compared to what it gives . Give it some unique and useful buffs/debuffs so we can at least use it on back bar . I really like the build diversity potential here , so please , make it cover the disadvantages it gives so we can actually want to use it .

Cheers ,

Liofa

This to the enth degree. Follow this blueprint correctly and Magicka tanking could be one of the best things to come to this game.

Hears-Ghosts · January 2017

I love this game and I know that the dev.s have put a lot of passion, time, and effort in making it as great as it is but, seriously?

This weapon skill-line is starting to become a circus-act. We might as well have shock staffs heal while we are at it, that way we can use destruction staffs for all three roles and not have to level up another skill-line again (SARCASM).

While I'm not outright opposed to frost tanking (Its nice to see frost have a more major role.). I think if they are going to do this they need to do it right by that I mean, let finally split the skill-line up between Fire, Frost, and Shock. This way each staff would have the passives and abilities to be able to perform their intended roles, and finally bring more more meaningful choices to what element you choose to use. Instead of just pigeonholing them all together into a one-size-fits-all weapon.

ElliottXO · January 2017

If you want more tanks in this game then make them feel more useful.

E.g. Puncture should be the ONLY skill that applies major fraction and major breach. Instead give the other weapons 5% more base damage or whatever.

But instead you make it a mandatory buff for every class and every role, so it becomes meaningless like major brutality (because everyone must have it in his build).

fr33r4ng3r · January 2017

I wanted to add my 2c, although much of this has been mentioned already. For the record, I enjoy my Winterborn/Ysgramor Ice Mage main right now. Took me a long time to farm all that gear. Oh well! Trying to stay positive despite losing 40% of my DPS, here is my take on the skill changes:

The elemental status effect Chilled now applies Minor Maim to enemies instead of snaring them: Ok I guess, I miss the snare already though. The ice staff stack, snare and burn felt epic. Now, not so much.
Tri Focus: Taunt: Simply no, no and no! We already have “Inner Rage” as a magicka ranged taunt.
Tri Focus: Block to drain Magicka and stops your Magicka Recovery: Not needed. I can solo most vet dungeon bosses with my ice mage right now and never have stam issues (even with an 11K stam pool), thanks to Dark Deal, Boundless Storm and Ward.
Ancient Knowledge: Frost Staves: Increases the amount of damage you Block by 10/20%, and reduces the cost of Block by 15/30%: I’m still in 2 minds about this one, if this stays I still think ice mage would have some interesting off-tank capabilities…

For the record, I know frost staves were in a bad place, but I've always loved playing ice/frost mages. I was hoping they'd be brought up to snuff this patch. I never imagined this... I'm have a hard time, in terms of lore, imagining how this would even work...

Dyride · January 2017

Allowing stamina to Regen while blocking with Ice Staff is so broken.

Unless we have way more ways to access Disorient/Fear, this will really suck in PVP.

Not to mention the crazy sustain achievable using Desert Rose or Black Rose.

Ashamray · January 2017

I think it's a poor design. Staff is an intelligent weapon of mages, piligrims, monks ect. Connection between these archetypes and tanking is... poor.
Magicka tanking can be built around illusions that give caster a short break, barriers that take strikes, auras and protective fields that mitigate damage. Ice theme? Ok, ice barriers and auras.
But you just make "green" block "blue". That's all. Boring and unstylish.

Valen_Byte · January 2017

Change the name to something like "permablock stick" and it will be good.

yake82 · January 2017

Would it be good idea to change Weakness to Elements in to melee range skill?

Weakness to Elements = Melee range. Apply 15sec taunt and Major Breach
Elemental Susceptibility = Melee range. Apply 15sec taunt and Major Breach and Major Fracture
Elemental Drain = Unchanged

Inner Fire would still serve as ranged taunt without debuffs.

amasuriel · January 2017

Sharee wrote: »

As far as i know, overtaunting is a thing of the past. It is not possible to overtaunt a mob as long as only one person is doing the taunting.

The staff is meant for magicka tanks, and their taunt (inner rage) already does not apply any debuffs.

I didn't know about the overtaunting not being an issue, that is great. I'm going to spam the *&^*& out of taunt when I'm wearing Tremorscale, every 4 seconds like clockwork

. Also makes vDSA master swords much better than vMA tanking weapons IMO. Now I want to finish knight errant and have a knight errant, tremorescale, mastersword tank pulling 8k DPS just from that spam and healing 2.5k every puncture

As for inner rage, there is a reason no one uses it except for fights that need ranged taunt for some reason like MoL twins, or if they need their stam for something else. I don't think the range is worth losing 2 major debuffs except, as mentioned, in very niche circumstances. Even then frost taunt is worse than inner rage because it's not instant, though its free I suppose, but if you have time to channel a full heavy frost attack you have plenty of time to regen magicka as well.

MrGorv · January 2017

I don't really want to comment on frost staff tanking, as it is somewhat crazy. I don't even know who would like to do that.
But I want to outline, what terrible thing you did to the Ancient Knowledge passive.
+8% single target for fire. Look, stamina is already extinct from trials because of not enough survivability and utility. And now magicka is going to perform even better? Why are you doing this?
+8% AoE for lightning. So, you nerfed destroult for 5% which won't help as it should be just made blockable or have reduced radius. But then you buffed it for another 8%? GOOD JOB.

Sharee · January 2017

amasuriel wrote: »

As for inner rage, there is a reason no one uses it except for fights that need ranged taunt for some reason like MoL twins, or if they need their stam for something else. I don't think the range is worth losing 2 major debuffs except, as mentioned, in very niche circumstances. Even then frost taunt is worse than inner rage because it's not instant, though its free I suppose, but if you have time to channel a full heavy frost attack you have plenty of time to regen magicka as well.

Yea well this is the problem i have with the reasoning used in this thread. You are all comparing staff tanking to 1h/s tank who uses a stamina taunt. You should compare staff tanking to a magicka tank as he is today. The staff quite obviously isn't meant for stamina tanks(what stam tank wants to use his magicka for blocking?)

Instead of answering the question "how is frost tanking" you are answering the question "would i switch from my stamina tank to frost tank". Of course you wouldn't - its superior. But the reason for that is not frost staff deficiency, it is magicka tank deficiency. Frost staff does nothing but improve the magicka tank.

I am tanking with my magicka DK. Not trials, just regular vet dungeons, (just finishing undaunted passives, PvE does not interest me much). And from my point of view - that is, the point of view of someone who never used puncture for taunting, and instead relied on inner rage - the frost staff changes are amazing. Now i can use my primary pool to tank, and even save some magicka when taunting in cases where it is viable to charge a heavy attack instead of using inner rage.