PTS Feedback Thread for Frost Staff Tanking

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for Frost Staff tanking. Please let us know what you think of this new playstyle, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

Woeler

First feedback I guess. If you want this to work, taunt with heavy attack has to go. Nobody is going to charge an heavy attack while unblocked in a trial or heavy boss.

At the moment, I'm not really a fan at all of this whole frost staff thing, but I do feel that if this goes through, it has to be done right.

Loc2262

Agreed. A taunt that cannot be done from blocking and requires that much time is useless. Not even gonna try it out.

Abeille

I appreciate that you guys are trying to give Frost Staff its own use. I wasn't able to enter the PTS yet, but I'll make a suggestion right now: I suggest giving it a different stance since now it will have a different function but the stance is the same as the fire staff. Fire and Ice staves are now weapons for completely different roles, the first being to deal damage and the last for tanking, and they need to look different in some way.

covenant_merchant

It ruins frost staff for PVP. And I hardly see anybody tanking with a Frost staff in end-game PVE. As Woeler said, charging heavy attacks (frost ones being notably unreliable) takes way too long, and 1h/shield allows you to combine 5x5x2 sets (alkosh, ebon, bloodspawn) whereas with a frost staff, you'd lose the second 5th piece bonus.

And why would a tank, fully speced for tanking damage, providing buffs and staying alive would want to do damage is beyond me. Though given how much you're nerfing PVE dps, he might as well have to. Either way, I think it will never work the way you implement it, and only serve to bring the ire of all frost staff PVP users down on you. (EDIT: I know that for one, I'm pissed af about that).

If you really want to make frost staff tanking a thing, make frost impulse an aoe taunt. And remove the whole "blocking with an ice staff doesn't restore magicka). You need magicka to buff up, and given your horrendous changes to ele drain + force siphon, people will need magicka regen more than ever.

yake82

Im looking forward to the Frost tanks for sure.

But please, put the taunt on the Elemental Susceptibility?

Greydir

First of All: I do not especially like this idea of tanking with a Frost staff.

Second: I think that a Taunt on a Heavy Attack will give many Tanks in Pugs a Headache, because of someone not getting the notice and Spotting or People Trolling.

The one thing i see is: If you Play Balanced Ressources, You might be Able to let one of your Pools run Dry while Blocking and then switching to the other Pool while the first Regenerates and vice Versa. But if that works is everyones Guess. I do not think that Froststaff Tanking will find a Good Place in PvE endgame Content

Sallington

Unless ZOS adds some new Attack Speed mechanic to bosses and mobs, and frost damage/chilled slows attack speed, then no one in their right mind is going to choose a Frost Staff over 1h/s

Two giant Cons to Frost "tanking":
Having to charge a heavy attack for taunt with block down (dumb and way slower to taunt multiple mobs)
Maximum of 11 gear pieces as opposed to 12. Pick two 5-pieces or a full monster set, not both. Boo!

Mic1007

yake82 wrote: »

Im looking forward to the Frost tanks for sure.

But please, put the taunt on the Elemental Susceptibility?

It needs to be on an unmorphed skill and carry on to both taunts. The passives for Frost Staffs now pretty much force this.

Loc2262

Greydir wrote: »

Second: I think that a Taunt on a Heavy Attack will give many Tanks in Pugs a Headache, because of someone not getting the notice and Spotting or People Trolling.

Yeah quite true!

Yesterday when I was on Teamspeak with a few friends, we already joked like, just wait, when this goes live, there's gonna be messages in zonechat "LF1M DD random normal - non frost staff users only"

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno ,

How about a 1 handed staff (wand) and shield (book) line.

It can be defensive based in magic and blocking could be visualized by a magic barrier when blocking.

NewBlacksmurf

While it reads fine and seems fine initially the passive should drastically reduce the heavy attack time however the taunt piece

It fits on the frost staff but not as a passive.

Perhaps consider destructive touch morph (clench).

Now adjust the taunt only to this morph and keep the shield effect you removed under the passive

Basically leave the passive without a taunt and move it to the morph.
Make adjustments to (reach)

Lord_Eomer

I like magicka tanking and frost is ok but

Give 1000/2000 reduce resistance on heavy attack and put taunt on skill

Nebthet78

If you want frost staff tanking, make it an enchantment, or an extra passive you can select for those who use a frost staff!!! With the horrible RNG this game has, and many, many players having to deal with using a frost staff right now because the Inferno or Lightning staves are so rare to drop from Trials, VMA, VDSA you are hurting a hell of a lot of players with this change.

And as a Hybrid tank that does indeed use a frost staff on my off hand, this was the dumbest idea I have ever seen come out of a game!!

dodgehopper_ESO

Abeille wrote: »

I appreciate that you guys are trying to give Frost Staff its own use. I wasn't able to enter the PTS yet, but I'll make a suggestion right now: I suggest giving it a different stance since now it will have a different function but the stance is the same as the fire staff. Fire and Ice staves are now weapons for completely different roles, the first being to deal damage and the last for tanking, and they need to look different in some way.

I think it would make sense to give all 3 staffs their own stance at this point.

Lord_Eomer

Nebthet78 wrote: »

If you want frost staff tanking, make it an enchantment, or an extra passive you can select for those who use a frost staff!!! With the horrible RNG this game has, and many, many players having to deal with using a frost staff right now because the Inferno or Lightning staves are so rare to drop from Trials, VMA, VDSA you are hurting a hell of a lot of players with this change.

And as a Hybrid tank that does indeed use a frost staff on my off hand, this was the dumbest idea I have ever seen come out of a game!!

Currently frost builds no one runs aeast frost tanking will give some edge to this useless staff!

dodgehopper_ESO

Nebthet78 wrote: »

If you want frost staff tanking, make it an enchantment, or an extra passive you can select for those who use a frost staff!!! With the horrible RNG this game has, and many, many players having to deal with using a frost staff right now because the Inferno or Lightning staves are so rare to drop from Trials, VMA, VDSA you are hurting a hell of a lot of players with this change.

And as a Hybrid tank that does indeed use a frost staff on my off hand, this was the dumbest idea I have ever seen come out of a game!!

I was thinking what they should do is create 3 different Destruction Staff Skill lines (Or more if they add other types of staff). It would certainly be easier to put a taunt built into a morph on a Frost Staff skill line, that way players using Frost staves have the choice if they want to be dps or tank (much like the Sword and Shield players can now do). Please also don't tell me that Sword and Shield is not a DPS set. I'm aware that it isn't the best option, but I'm also recognize there are morphs which are higher dps vs. higher tanking. 1h+s is a good model going forward if they want to do this.

zerosingularity

I agree that needing a fully charged heavy for tanking with a staff is worthless. It is neat to say, run Sword and Board on one bar, staff on the other, and when low on one resource, swap to the other to recover. Unfortunately, this makes permablocking even worse, as you can charge and use both pools for tanking.

And since many tanks in PvE have no issue with blocking using only 1 resource, this is gonna make PvP suck with even more permablocking builds. (I can come up with several that are nasty already.)

A suggestion would be to make the useless morph, elemental susceptibility be a base taunt (reduce armor as well as spell resist, like pierce armor) otherwise inner fire would be used, and the heavy attack passive needs to change (the shield it gave or a snare is a good thing, I suggest heavy attacks generate a massive snare for continued pvp use).

Then again, with a staff you lose some much needed mitigation that you get from a shield, in exchange for more damage (no one cares, you are tanking).

Basically this whole frost staff thing is a neat idea, but is far from complete and needs a lot of work to be worth the investment that has already been put in.

usmcjdking

Change the frost heavy from taunt to "Top of the Threat List". Hard taunts will override the Threat LIst, but at least you haven't removed ice staff concept PVE DPSers from the game.

OrphanHelgen

Might work for role playing and normal dungeons, which is spot on in a parallel line with the rest of this patch.

Slylok

That only feedback that is need is... It is a dumb idea. Scrap it. I would rather see Bow Volley with a AoE taunt morph if you want it on a weird weapon that has nothing to do with actual tanking.

NewBlacksmurf

Or
Maybe just make it an AOE taunt



Seriously tho having a taunt as a passive is not well done and the frost staff targets different than the other taunts which are instant.

It has to be a slotted skill cause otherwise it's a waste to hold down and have the cast miss.
Taunt has to me better done from a development stand point.

Doctordarkspawn

First off, if Frost staff is to stack up, it needs some signifigant advantages.

The thing it's losing to Sword and Board on, is physical debuffs, and heroism. It needs a way to apply major fracture, and gain heroism. Otherwise, Sword and shield is objectively better.

On top of this, your basicly losing an enchant slot. Frost staff needs an edge for it to be an option, maybe you guys want for this to be a more unique style geared more toward helping magicka DPS. That's fine. But it needs signifigant advantages to make up for it's lack of Heroism, lack of Fracture, and lack of enchant slot and readily available taunt.

PS: I am in full support of this, I love me a magicka tank, I want for magicka tanks to be viable, give me my magicka tank. Keep it up. Keep tweaking it.

Tryxus

Like Woeler said above: the taunt on the Heavy Attack has gotta go. It's way better to just apply the Undaunted taunt while blocking than to drop block and be vulnerable while charging a Heavy Attack.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The thing it's losing to Sword and Board on, is physical debuffs, and heroism. It needs a way to apply major fracture, and gain heroism. Otherwise, Sword and shield is objectively better.

How about instead of a taunt, a Heavy Attack grants the caster Minor Heroism? Would be nice for initiating combat

Doctordarkspawn

Tryxus wrote: »

Like Woeler said above: the taunt on the Heavy Attack has gotta go. It's way better to just apply the Undaunted taunt while blocking than to drop block and be vulnerable while charging a Heavy Attack.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The thing it's losing to Sword and Board on, is physical debuffs, and heroism. It needs a way to apply major fracture, and gain heroism. Otherwise, Sword and shield is objectively better.

How about instead of a taunt, a Heavy Attack grants the caster Minor Heroism? Would be nice for initiating combat

Wouldn't really work, I dont think. I mean yes you could weave but I dont think it'd work for high stress situations.

Leting ice staff augment other abilities, would likely solve this issue.

arkansas_ESO

It's definitely an interesting change, for sure. If I could suggest one thing, it would be to remove the taunt from frost heavy attacks and give it another buff that a tank would want. It's likely best to keep magicka tanks using the Undaunted taunt instead of relying on a ~2 second channel to taunt.

Dyride

If blocking on a Ice Staff allows you to regen Stamina, this game will be broken beyond belief.

I think Ice staff block costing Magicka may work but both regens needs to be zero.

This mechanic will already be border line broken with Desert Rose or Black Rose sets.

Abeille

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

I appreciate that you guys are trying to give Frost Staff its own use. I wasn't able to enter the PTS yet, but I'll make a suggestion right now: I suggest giving it a different stance since now it will have a different function but the stance is the same as the fire staff. Fire and Ice staves are now weapons for completely different roles, the first being to deal damage and the last for tanking, and they need to look different in some way.

I think it would make sense to give all 3 staffs their own stance at this point.

Yeah, but the Restoration and the Lightning staves already have their own stances. Only the Ice and the Fire staves have the same one.

Akimbro

Making the taunt occur from a fully-charged heavy attack is useless. You're going to have to drop block in order to re-taunt. The whole idea, although fun, should just be scrapped. Inferno staves and lightning staves are in a good place. Inferno does more damage, lightning does more aoe. There's a nice trade-off between the two. However, frost staves are the odd man out. Instead of making it a useless tanking weapon, it needs to be upgraded so it's actually used as a weapon. Snares and CC make sense. That's already established. But to make it more competitive and in-line with flame and lightning, there has to be something more.

I would highly recommend removing the tanking component of frost staves, and adding resist penetration. For example, fully-charged heavy attack on a frost staff provides minor fracture and minor breach. This would actually make frost staves useful instead of them being the ugly duckling of the bunch.

yake82

Mic1007 wrote: »

yake82 wrote: »

Im looking forward to the Frost tanks for sure.

But please, put the taunt on the Elemental Susceptibility?

It needs to be on an unmorphed skill and carry on to both taunts. The passives for Frost Staffs now pretty much force this.

What you mean?


Anyways... Elemental Susceptibility is not very useful skill and reworking this skill would not break anyones build, i'd wager. Healers are always going to use Elemental Drain so adding taunt in the whole Weakness to Elements-skill line would be disaster.

So maybe chance the Elemental Susceptibility into different skill. Staff being wield would affect the effect like it does with Elemental Blockade and Destructive Touch.
Wielding Frost staff would apply the 15sec taunt.

Also, i think Frost staff tank needs a skill equal to the Pierce Armor. So the new morph would need to have Major Breach+Fracture on it.

WillhelmBlack

Doesn't take a genius to figure out perma-block would be back with this so why did you put it in @Wrobel ?

Frost staff bar 1
Sword and Board bar 2

Perma block.