PTS Feedback Thread for Frost Staff Tanking

jarydf

I get that you want to make frost tanking a thing but where you put the taunt skill makes no sense.

Ancient Knowledge passive was a good simple buff as it was.

Now frost staff has a taunt where most people won't want it. Less people will use frost rather than more because the taunt will be hard for new players to control. They will havexa bad experience and never come back to it.

Charging a heavy to taunt while not blocking seems bad tanking.

Putting the taunt in the Ancient knowledge passive means you changed fire and lightning also. Why does fire need 2 buffs to single target? Why does lightning need 2 aoe buffs? It feels like you wanted to do the frost thing so bad you just ignored the other 2 types and gave them an overall 2% nerf.

Pallio

Whoever came up with this was probably high, they should be tested.

Inferno3

Not sure if this is in the right place, but the fact that HA frost procs Tremorscale is a bit of a joke. It was already a bit annoying that inner rage could proc it, but i understood it, its a taunt at the end of the day right? But the fact you can use tremor coupled with sets like IA and elegant on a magDK and hit crazy hard heavy attacks in pvp... its beyond me.

Takuto

Instead of a taunting on a heavy attack, I think it should be on bash, but with the caveat that the taunt only applies if the monster isn't currently taunted by another player. Like a major and minor taunt, where the 2 ability based taunts are major taunts which overwrite each other, and bash is a minor taunt which only applies if there isn't a taunt in affect.

Thinking of it like that, there is no reason why all bashes couldn't work like some sort of 'minor taunt'?

Rex-Umbra

Just make sword and board a hybrid weapon type, make dmg from light and heavy attacks be based on highest stat and give equal Magicka and Stamina back....

Doctordarkspawn

Honestly at this point, you may as well make another staff line.

Unless you are willing to rework powers to be usefull in a tanking contest this might not be able to work.

Akimbro

Akimbro wrote: »

Making the taunt occur from a fully-charged heavy attack is useless. You're going to have to drop block in order to re-taunt. The whole idea, although fun, should just be scrapped. Inferno staves and lightning staves are in a good place. Inferno does more damage, lightning does more aoe. There's a nice trade-off between the two. However, frost staves are the odd man out. Instead of making it a useless tanking weapon, it needs to be upgraded so it's actually used as a weapon. Snares and CC make sense. That's already established. But to make it more competitive and in-line with flame and lightning, there has to be something more.

I would highly recommend removing the tanking component of frost staves, and adding resist penetration. For example, fully-charged heavy attack on a frost staff provides minor fracture and minor breach. This would actually make frost staves useful instead of them being the ugly duckling of the bunch.

As far as the multiple resource component goes, there should be a skill in the 1h/s line that changes the blocking resource to magicka when active. Obviously this would require some balancing as far as PVP tanks go, but that would be better than having it on frost staves which can be used with proc sets (I'm looking at you Tremorscale).

Xsorus

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Doesn't take a genius to figure out perma-block would be back with this so why did you put it in @Wrobel ?

Frost staff bar 1
Sword and Board bar 2

Perma block.

you can already perma block.

Anyway....Like most have said, They'll just use the undaunted taunt so no real reason to attach a taunt on the Heavy Charge. The Block Cost reduction and such is fine, gives frost staff something unique...If you want to add something to Heavy Armor stick with the Shield you had before, but increase it and add a Damage Return to it. That would stick to the tanking nature of it...Or Have it apply a buff to you that applies a Dot to whatever Targets you Block.

Or heavy attacking a taunted target causes you to pulse a PBAE for example..That'd play into the Tanking Role

Joy_Division

I am actually intrigued by the concept and very much welcome the possibility of actually having options instead of dying in PvP when running out of stam on a mgicka toon.

Still, I'm not so sure it will replace traditional tanking if that is the intention. I wonder about:

• Staff probably needs to count as two armor slots. People might not like this as it breaks precedent, but I want my end-game tank to be wearing 3 full set bonuses to support the group. So I might tell Frosty the tank to take a walk.
• I am guessing Frost tanks are supposed to block cast Inner Fire for taunt. OK, I guess, but I suppose I the non tank is the one who is now responsible for putting major fracture and defile on the boss? Can we trade Frosty for generic DK sword & shield tank?
• You need to make it 10000% clear to newer players that Frost staffs are *not* DPS weapons so that when they heavy attack when out of resources (which they will be in the next patch), they don't steal taunt.
• I don't tank Trials, but I do heal them and from what I understand, being at or near the mitigation cap matters as does every percentage of Block. Frost Staffs get most of the basic block stuff, but not all, they lose a sturdy shield (as well as the armor from it), and the Defensive Posture morph. I can see Frost staff tanking working for daily dungeons, but will this work for hard mode Trials?

It would be interesting to see this work.

Curragraigue

You loose:

1) additional resistances skill and CP, trait and enchant from shield
2) option to run two 5 piece sets plus a monster set
3) block cost reduction and damage reduction from sword and board skill line
4) ability to block taunt

You also have to time a perfect heavy attack for the taunt and find another way to debuff bosses armour and spell resist.

It is an interesting idea but as things stand you loose too much changing from sword and board to staff for taunts to make it viable on a boss bar for anything more than a fun run in a normal dungeon or overland.

ku5h

Frost staff for tanking!?! Your really went full *** with this one ZoS and you know you never go full ***. I mean how other ppl didnt realise by now that wooden stick can provide same blocking protection as a shield. Whats next? Trowing greatswords, or even better make staffs do physical dmg with a lot of penetration coz you know, logic....jeez, its like 2 year old children made this changes.

CavalryPK

Has any one able to make Tremorscale work with the ice staff heavy attack ????

Chrlynsch

Change the stance of frost staff block, caster sticks out free hand and an ice wall/shield appears

Ivan04

Frost Staff tanking is a really bad idea. The problem with it is that developers seem to cater to casual audience a bit too much, giving equal advantages to magicka and stamina, thus removing different gameplay styles.
Magicka tanking is easily possible on live without blocking.
It is so because magicka users have shields. Big damage shields are unique to magicka users and give them a different playstyle from stamina users.
Removing difference between magicka and stamina is a really bad idea that is going to lead this game into failure unless developers take a turn like they did before Dark Brotherhood (reverting the change to Bone Shield so it wouldn't scale off max stamina).
I really hope developers read this and realise their mistake. And this is just one issue. The game has ways that would allow players to exploit frost staff tanking very badly - for example, combining Black Rose, Desert Rose 1 hand and shield and frost staff. This would be completely ridiculous and unacceptable.

Also no lore background is provided for this change. Many gameplay mechanics have lore background described in books in the game, this doesn't and I doubt anyone will bother.
Third problem is how powerful destruction staff skill line is in comparison to 1h and shield passives. For just 2 skill points you get an equivalent of what you'd have to spand 10 skill points on and spend time leveling.

What this change factually is is a lazy "easymode" fix to give starting magicka users an overly easy PVE experience. Maybe developers planned something else for this change to be, but I'm afraid they failed.

timidobserver

If you leave it like it is, having a frost staff equipped is going to equal instant vote-kick from any groupfinder group. People are going to be taunting stuff without knowing they are taunting it. It will be complete madness. A taunt should never be attached to a passive. Find a relatively unused morph and change that skill into a taunt skill.

My overall opinion on this change is that it is a good thing. As someone that has been playing since launch, it adds a completely new dynamic to the game for me to play around with. Reducing my boredom trumps any balance concerns like the perma-block tank fears from various posters above.

Solariken

I dislike the taunt on the heavy attack - we already have a ranged magicka-based taunt via the Undaunted skill line which is satisfactory. It's simply a waste to add a taunt on frost heavy attacks - you might as well keep the shield mechanic if frost is going to be for tanking.

The rest of the changes are very interesting and may bring a lot of depth to the game.

Paraflex

Frost staff plus dessert rose will make this set very imbalanced...change dessert rose or make all magika resources can't be regain or recovered currently you can do this on elusive mist form and it's pretty strong...please change this so we don't have a new type of cancer in PvP.

Derra

Magica has too many ways to bypass regeneration (fixed value gains not affected by regeneration halt like mistform)

Desertrose, syrabane, blackrose(heavy in general), the new magica drain, rune focus.

All of that basically allows you to have 1500 or more magica returned per second not affected by the block regeneration penalty - if you´re getting attacked while blocking. This is going to put permablock into a whole new dimension of broken.

Zlater

Coagulating blood, annulment and a 0 cost taunt, this seems fun. I know someone is going to hate me for saying. But what if you just make it so all destroy staves consume Magicka on block, just base line. The chaos would be fun to watch, and it would be cool to see how that would bring back things like the seducer set.

Cronopoly

mihran.akopyan_ESO wrote: »

Has any one able to make Tremorscale work with the ice staff heavy attack ????

I tested it extensively. Had no problem proccing it over and over.

Mettaricana

Make light or heavy attacks with frost staff taunt

dsalter

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Frost Staff tanking. Please let us know what you think of this new playstyle, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3654549#Comment_3654549

thought i'd post a link to my post as it says everything that i need to say about it, but the taunt defo needs to be shifted onto the first skill while using a frost staff to put it on par with sword and board. heavy attacks and blocking are contradictive mechanics

SirDopey

I quite like the idea.

Heavy Attack taunt - lot of people don't like it but I think it can work if the heavy attack has splash damage that also taunts. This would make it the only AOE taunt in the game and actually create a reason for dropping block. Inner fire can still be used to instantly taunt any close larger single targets. .

But yes, for it to work it'll need something alot more powerful than can be found on the S&B skill line to make up for the slottable item piece people will lose

Doctordarkspawn

Ivan04 wrote: »

Frost Staff tanking is a really bad idea. The problem with it is that developers seem to cater to casual audience a bit too much, giving equal advantages to magicka and stamina, thus removing different gameplay styles.
Magicka tanking is easily possible on live without blocking.
It is so because magicka users have shields. Big damage shields are unique to magicka users and give them a different playstyle from stamina users.
Removing difference between magicka and stamina is a really bad idea that is going to lead this game into failure unless developers take a turn like they did before Dark Brotherhood (reverting the change to Bone Shield so it wouldn't scale off max stamina).
I really hope developers read this and realise their mistake. And this is just one issue. The game has ways that would allow players to exploit frost staff tanking very badly - for example, combining Black Rose, Desert Rose 1 hand and shield and frost staff. This would be completely ridiculous and unacceptable.

Also no lore background is provided for this change. Many gameplay mechanics have lore background described in books in the game, this doesn't and I doubt anyone will bother.
Third problem is how powerful destruction staff skill line is in comparison to 1h and shield passives. For just 2 skill points you get an equivalent of what you'd have to spand 10 skill points on and spend time leveling.

What this change factually is is a lazy "easymode" fix to give starting magicka users an overly easy PVE experience. Maybe developers planned something else for this change to be, but I'm afraid they failed.

I'm sorry, what?

This is all a plot from the filthy casuals! I'm sorry, what? Am I taking crazy pills?

This is not to give magicka users a overly easy PVE experience. This is to give a magicka alternative to sword and board, it looks like, and I'm fully in favor of it.

dsalter

SirDopey wrote: »

I quite like the idea.

Heavy Attack taunt - lot of people don't like it but I think it can work if the heavy attack has splash damage that also taunts. This would make it the only AOE taunt in the game and actually create a reason for dropping block. Inner fire can still be used to instantly taunt any close larger single targets. .

But yes, for it to work it'll need something alot more powerful than can be found on the S&B skill line to make up for the slottable item piece people will lose

heavy attack taunting contradicts the idea of blocking though

J2JMC

I made a post on ideas I had about the frost staff that would be too long to fit into a comment so just going to link it here since this is the official feedback thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312194/ideas-on-frost-staff-to-test#latest

raj72616a

staff is ranged. tanking is melee. so why tank with a staff? it looks ridiculous, unless frost staff tanking can conjure ice walls and taunt the mobs to aggro on conjured wall first, so that staff tanking will be in slightly different range than sword and shield tanking.

Tryxus

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Like Woeler said above: the taunt on the Heavy Attack has gotta go. It's way better to just apply the Undaunted taunt while blocking than to drop block and be vulnerable while charging a Heavy Attack.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The thing it's losing to Sword and Board on, is physical debuffs, and heroism. It needs a way to apply major fracture, and gain heroism. Otherwise, Sword and shield is objectively better.

How about instead of a taunt, a Heavy Attack grants the caster Minor Heroism? Would be nice for initiating combat

Wouldn't really work, I dont think. I mean yes you could weave but I dont think it'd work for high stress situations.

Leting ice staff augment other abilities, would likely solve this issue.

Well, it's not like a Heavy Attack passive is going to be incredibly useful for a tank anyway. But having it grant Minor Heroism or any other defensive buff would fit the playstyle ZOS is going for.

NewBlacksmurf

raj72616a wrote: »

staff is ranged. tanking is melee. so why tank with a staff? it looks ridiculous, unless frost staff tanking can conjure ice walls and taunt the mobs to aggro on conjured wall first, so that staff tanking will be in slightly different range than sword and shield tanking.

@raj72616a

That actually isn't how this works. Even inner fire is ranged and magic based taunt.

Why : because the only weapon option is stamina but there are both stam and magic taunts. So a stag makes perfect sense.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Why do we even need frost tanks? I get that as far as destruction staves go, Ice was least usefull. Fire and lightning have their advantages. But to create a whole new meta when there is so many other things that need to be fixed? its just perplexing.