More data from a classic grind, in response to certain critics who say that I didn't have enough data or that data from trials shouldn't count...
I had a romp today in the Imperial City and Imperial Sewers for a few hours, grossing around 12K stones.
Total gold from kills: 1128g
Total gold from vendorables: 8395g
Total repair bills (with 5p Impen): 971g
(Vendorables are white/green trash armor/weapons. I deconned my glpyhs and also deconned any non-ornate ancestor silk and rubedo leather pieces, and those were not counted towards the vendor total.)
1.Yes, Impen does work. During one of my repair sessions, my Impen gear had around 50g each in repair costs, while my non-Impen gear had around 100g in repair costs.
2.Impen saved me around 50% in repair costs on 5 of 7 pieces of armor. If I had no Impen gear, my repair costs would've extrapolated to around 1510g. Wearing 5p Impen saved me around 539g.
3.If I had instead worn 5p Prosperous, I would've gained 35% more gold, or 395g.
4.So, when grinding PvE mobs in the Imperial Sewers and City, 5p Impen outperformed a hypothetical 5p Prosperous by 144g. Oh, and Impen also helped keep me (mostly) alive during the few player encounters I had.
5.Of course, the big elephant in the room is that 88% of my gold gain during this session didn't come from gold drops at all--it came from all the dropped trash loot that I vendored--the value of the vendorables so greatly overshadow gold drops that even if Prosperous could outperform Impenetrable, it would still be irrelevant.
the big elephant in the room is that 88% of my gold gain during this session didn't come from gold drops
in response to certain critics who say that I didn't have enough data or that data from trials shouldn't count...
I had a romp today in the Imperial City and Imperial Sewers for a few hours, grossing around 12K stones.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Thoughts?
- Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
- Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.Thoughts?
- Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
- Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
- Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.Thoughts?
- Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
- Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
- Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets
cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »(1) Remove training and prosperous from all end game gear, and dd impen to all loot tables.
(2) To sweeten the deal possibly, how about looking into a mechanic to choose one of 2 traits on the same gear as loot reward?
.
And you are the paragon of impartiality here? You continue to defend a trait that is clearly underperforming, and it perplexes me to no end why you do so. And I never claim impartiality here. I hate Prosperous, and I've been saying that it's a bad trait ever since it showed up on the PTS, and my distaste for this trait is supported by evidence.Transairion wrote: »Boy you just love to try and skew your data in a way that benefits your argument don't you? You hate Prosperous, you desperately want to prove it's terrible, but... you refuse to craft/use the supposed excess of Prosperous drops and just theorycraft the Prosperous component. At least pretend to be impartial.
And yet it is one of the most popular grind spots in the game. Is this what your defense of Prosperous has come down to? "Oh, you're using it wrong by not grinding in the right area." If the only way that Prosperous looks good compared to Impen is to narrow the scope so much that you are grinding specific enemies in specific areas, then I'd say that's a big red mark in the "useless" column.Transairion wrote: »And please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sewers/City full of certain Daedra that won't drop any gold at all, like Clanferrs, which only further skews your own (theoretical, mind you) data in a way that makes gold gain look bad in general.
LOL. Did you miss the part where I was grinding PvE mobs the entire time? That IC/IS is PvP-enabled is irrelevant. Yes, Impen would help protect my stones from gankers, which is why I was in 5p Impen (honestly, the few hundred gold that I saved is irrelevant--I would've worn my divines PvE gear had this not been IC/IS).Transairion wrote: »You mean to tell me that in a PvP zone, the one PvP-focused trait is better than Prosperous (or anything else)?
Um, the 10% gold gain from subs is worthless. People sub for a lot of reasons. That 10% gold gain rate isn't one of them. I wouldn't turn it down, of course; I sub for other reasons, and that 10% gold gain is essentially a free bonus with no opportunity cost. But Prosperous does have an opportunity cost: I.e., any of the other traits that are more useful and that you're not using because you're using Prosperous (yes, even Sturdy, which, unlike Prosperous, actually excels at its intended use case (stam management for tanks)).Transairion wrote: »But 12% did, at what I can assume is either 100% (or 110% if sub) gold gain rate. Theoretically at a 145% gold gain rate that number would be higher, no? Nothing world shaking, of course, but dismissing it as worthless is like dismissing the 10% subs get as worthless.
Transairion wrote: »More data from a classic grind, in response to certain critics who say that I didn't have enough data or that data from trials shouldn't count...
I had a romp today in the Imperial City and Imperial Sewers for a few hours, grossing around 12K stones.
Total gold from kills: 1128g
Total gold from vendorables: 8395g
Total repair bills (with 5p Impen): 971g
(Vendorables are white/green trash armor/weapons. I deconned my glpyhs and also deconned any non-ornate ancestor silk and rubedo leather pieces, and those were not counted towards the vendor total.)
1.Yes, Impen does work. During one of my repair sessions, my Impen gear had around 50g each in repair costs, while my non-Impen gear had around 100g in repair costs.
2.Impen saved me around 50% in repair costs on 5 of 7 pieces of armor. If I had no Impen gear, my repair costs would've extrapolated to around 1510g. Wearing 5p Impen saved me around 539g.
3.If I had instead worn 5p Prosperous, I would've gained 35% more gold, or 395g.
4.So, when grinding PvE mobs in the Imperial Sewers and City, 5p Impen outperformed a hypothetical 5p Prosperous by 144g. Oh, and Impen also helped keep me (mostly) alive during the few player encounters I had.
5.Of course, the big elephant in the room is that 88% of my gold gain during this session didn't come from gold drops at all--it came from all the dropped trash loot that I vendored--the value of the vendorables so greatly overshadow gold drops that even if Prosperous could outperform Impenetrable, it would still be irrelevant.
Boy you just love to try and skew your data in a way that benefits your argument don't you? You hate Prosperous, you desperately want to prove it's terrible, but... you refuse to craft/use the supposed excess of Prosperous drops and just theorycraft the Prosperous component. At least pretend to be impartial. And please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sewers/City full of certain Daedra that won't drop any gold at all, like Clanferrs, which only further skews your own (theoretical, mind you) data in a way that makes gold gain look bad in general.the big elephant in the room is that 88% of my gold gain during this session didn't come from gold drops
But 12% did, at what I can assume is either 100% (or 110% if sub) gold gain rate. Theoretically at a 145% gold gain rate that number would be higher, no? Nothing world shaking, of course, but dismissing it as worthless is like dismissing the 10% subs get as worthless.
Also:in response to certain critics who say that I didn't have enough data or that data from trials shouldn't count...
I had a romp today in the Imperial City and Imperial Sewers for a few hours, grossing around 12K stones.
You mean to tell me that in a PvP zone, the one PvP-focused trait is better than Prosperous (or anything else)?
I mean I'm sorry, but if you want ZOS to take this as serious fact you can't only go places that hardly drop gold to begin with. Even IN Cyrodiil itself there are TONS of delves full of mostly, if not only bandits/necromancers/pirates and so on that all drop gold and the only animals (that do not drop gold) are in-combat summons. Is it really that hard to go there, you know, actually wearing Prosperous?
Sturdy looks pretty stupid on every piece of gear too, we should remove it... I hope the fact I never use block doesn't affect my judgement /s
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here.
And you are the paragon of impartiality here? You continue to defend a trait that is clearly underperforming, and it perplexes me to no end why you do so. And I never claim impartiality here. I hate Prosperous, and I've been saying that it's a bad trait ever since it showed up on the PTS, and my distaste for this trait is supported by evidence....Transairion wrote: »Boy you just love to try and skew your data in a way that benefits your argument don't you? You hate Prosperous, you desperately want to prove it's terrible, but... you refuse to craft/use the supposed excess of Prosperous drops and just theorycraft the Prosperous component. At least pretend to be impartial.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
Best idea and good compromise for everyone
Remove prosperous and training and add impen.
Everyone wins.
UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
When is Nirnhoned joining the fray? Also when will Nirncrux be more widespread? Seriously why do we still HAVE Nirnhoned?!
UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
When is Nirnhoned joining the fray? Also when will Nirncrux be more widespread? Seriously why do we still HAVE Nirnhoned?!
While I wouldn't mind having Nirn added to the tables, I actually like to have one trait that is extra hard to find and is exclusive to crafting.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
UltimaJoe777 wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
When is Nirnhoned joining the fray? Also when will Nirncrux be more widespread? Seriously why do we still HAVE Nirnhoned?!
While I wouldn't mind having Nirn added to the tables, I actually like to have one trait that is extra hard to find and is exclusive to crafting.
Yeah but as it stands it isn't the most useful trait above all and makes the effort to search for Nirncrux in Craglorn not worth it.
UltimaJoe777 wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
When is Nirnhoned joining the fray? Also when will Nirncrux be more widespread? Seriously why do we still HAVE Nirnhoned?!
While I wouldn't mind having Nirn added to the tables, I actually like to have one trait that is extra hard to find and is exclusive to crafting.
Yeah but as it stands it isn't the most useful trait above all and makes the effort to search for Nirncrux in Craglorn not worth it.
Agree, that is why I said if only it were useful.
And besides, since it's not that useful, I guess people prefer to leave it out of the tables.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.
rhapsodious wrote: »So... No Impen added to trial loot tables? And I can still get Prosperous and Training SPC pieces? Hurk. At least I can get impen SPC I guess.
Really wish you would remove Prosperous and Training entirely from CP160 loot tables, but I guess it's a step. ):
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
- Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
- Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
- Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
- Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
- Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.