The Impenetrable Trait & Item Sets

idk

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Remove prosperous and training , replace both with impen on the RNGesus slot machines .


Edit to add
Make bind on equip and vICP and vWGT pieces available .

I would agree with this. v160 gear does not need prosperous (worst trait ever) or training. The trade @Roehamad_Ali proposes is a good one.

Dreyloch

I'm with the majority here, add impen to all of it.

But while we're at it, either a mechanic to change traits, or adding in the rest of the useful traits to cyrodiil vendor gear would also be tremendously appreciated. I used to get Elf Bane armor with impen. when it dropped from RotW bags. This current mechanic of RNG based. AP sinking,. Grab bag non-sense...only gives the set in Infused. That's not terrible for large pieces like chest, legs ,and head. But the smaller pieces have it too. Morag Tong...only comes in well fit? LOL, I mean, the 5th trait on that set doesn't even benefit from that. It's pointless. The list goes on from there.

Sallington

Remove Prosperous and Training from endgame gear, add Impen to all PvE drops including Trial.


Prosperous and Training should only drop as random white gear from PvE mobs for research purposes.

Hellbender27

Sandman929 wrote: »

Is there some hidden community that's really excited about the prospect of getting a dropped item with Prosperous or Training?

Hahhah damn I laughed so hard thx for the morning laugh lol ! cheers!

mtwiggz

Remove prosperous and training from all CP160 drop zones (dungeons, trials, rewards, etc.). Add impen to all drops throughout the game.

Acrolas

The problem is, once Prosperous and Training are knocked out, the next two on the community's block will be Sturdy and Well-Fitted. Then Reinforced and Infused. Until everybody just gets a guaranteed shot at Divines or Impenetrable.

That's the begging pattern in Cyrodiil, and once ZOS buckles once, the second and third complaints just need to remind them there's now a precedent for removing traits.

Also, I'm still confused why Training is more hated than Well-Fitted. Sure, it's okay for tank builds, but you know what would be better? Making dodge fatigue and no stam recovery while blocking specific to PVP. Can't wait to see people flipping out because RNG seems to be loading them up with more Well-Fitted than ever before.


If ZOS wanted to pull a plot twist, they could remove all craftable traits from endgame gear and make endgame-specific weapon, armor, and jewelry traits the same way there are endgame specific enchantments. That would legitimize the bind on pickup because they're exclusive traits and would be the better incentive to run endgame content. RNG becomes interesting again because you're at least pulling items you probably haven't owned yet.

The pieces offered in Cyrodiil would use the same system they do now instead of the new endgame traits.

xkhainedx

Already been said a lot , but yeah i never understood why impenetrable wasnt part of rng in the first place.

as for prosperous and training:

• no use for end-game players
• rng should be random so why take them out ?
• is rng really same % chance of getting a specific trait ?
• if removed, should be extended to all CP160+ group drops making them maybe a craft only trait ?

as a player i'd be happy to know that i wont get those 2 traits on my end drops, but if i am willing to be objective they shouldnt be remove.. but hell i am a player so yeah remove them from CP160+

Cryptical

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom 10 pages later, have you gotten enough feedback to come to a conclusion?

timidobserver

Remove training and prosperous from the game entirely. Add their affects onto infused, Reinforced, and/or Sturdy.

X3ina

1 - remove training drops (training is for leveling)
2 - remake prosperous trait (way better ways to make money in this game)
3 - add something similar to token system to any endgame loot at least for BoP, or at least an ability to trade pieces ( for ex.: 2v1 = random piece with random trait/ 5v1 = any player desired piece with any player desired trait)
4 - fire your rngesus already (we're not grindbots) "any normal" mmo has a mechanic developed for playerbase to compensate droprate of rare items and such. make something similar with a chance increasing every time u don't get it, until it hits 100% chance on drop. mindless grind will stop - but grind itself will not. i guess the amount of super lucky dudes getting desired items from the first try will not be so high and it will take a time to grind all the pieces anyway

Bonzodog01

And yet, here I am dealing with a guildie, who is admittedly a very new player (about a week or so...), who already has a level 50 he hard-grinded up, and just over 100CP. He wants all training kit making for him all the time, and says he will stick with training gear all the way to 501CP or 531 if its after Aug. 16th. Some people......

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Hey when you implement this, can I get a re-roll on the 74 pieces of posperous gear I have from the new trials? That would be great.

Also, I made that number up, but its a lot...

xANTIxMATTERx

Impen option for all gear plz

code65536

Transairion wrote: »

Training % is comparable to the Cakebuff everyone worshipped ZOS for providing

Oh yes, Training is indeed awesome. I've always used full-Training gear when grinding/leveling my characters.

But my Training gear is crafted. Because I need it at various levels from 1-50. I don't want Training on the max-level gear I use when I want maximum combat effectiveness. People who are grinding out sets of Scathing and Spell Power Cure are not thinking, "Oh yea, this set would be great for grinding mobs!"

If I want to go level a character, I'll craft their Training gear.

Reverb

Its been said here already, but bears repeating - if people want to use Prosperous or Training traits for grinding gold and/or XP they will craft them . There is no reason to have those traits on end game sets. None.

rhapsodious

Acrolas wrote: »

The problem is, once Prosperous and Training are knocked out, the next two on the community's block will be Sturdy and Well-Fitted. Then Reinforced and Infused. Until everybody just gets a guaranteed shot at Divines or Impenetrable.

That's the begging pattern in Cyrodiil, and once ZOS buckles once, the second and third complaints just need to remind them there's now a precedent for removing traits.

Eh, I don't think so. The problem is that Prosperous and Training provide zero in-battle effect. And they're not useful for anything except grinding gold (inefficiently) and grinding EXP. The former has been addressed so many times I don't want to beat the pile of dust formally referred to as a horse, and the latter is useless after a certain point. Sturdy and Well-Fitted (along with Reinforced and Infused) are situationally useful, if not on every slot/armor type, and give in-combat benefits. Well-Fitted means my SPC healer can roll twice instead of once until I get him a better piece. Prosperous and Training on a CP531+ character, meanwhile, just feel like slaps to the face.

Certainly there will be people who will insist that every piece of gear should drop in Impen/Divines/Robust stam jewelry/Arcane magicka jewelry, but most of us are okay with getting something in Well-Fitted or Sturdy every once in a while. Not happy by any means, but I'm not going to give up Daedroth farming forever because I got an Arcane Ring of Agility last night, or that the last SPC piece I got that wasn't training/prosperous was well-fitted gloves.

leeux

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that by removing the Prosperous & Training from the loot tables, it'll probably mean that you won't get gear drops as frequently as it's now.

I get a feeling that they added those traits to make gear drops more common in the first place. I still remember back when they weren't present in the loot tables (exploration and training at that time) and you could go several runs of X content and never get a single drop piece... now it seems pieces are dropping everywhere and all the time.

Maybe when you get a Prosperous or Training gear it means that in the past, you wouldn't have got anything in that instance.

Just saying, maybe is not all green and happiness

PS (BTW, to be clear: I hate those traits with passion myself too :P)

EDIT: grammar

rhapsodious

leeux wrote: »

Snip for brevity

For ICP and WGT (and probably trials? or maybe trials always worked that way? Dunno exactly right now, too lazy to look it up) they upped the drop rates to 100% per boss on Vet, so if they remove the traits you'll still get drops, just in traits you might actually want.

Arciris

Add Impen to all loot tables: yes
Remove Training and Prosperous from end-game loot: yes.

And/Or rework Prosperous to something useful: the new Decisive trait is lackluster atm but if it was to replace Prosperous, it could be interesting.
Example: 7 legendary pieces with Decisive giving +10% chance of gaining 1 extra ultimate when gaining ultimate will account for a 70% chance in total. Rework the way it works on weapons to cap it at 10% for 1H and 20% for 2H. If you build for it, you can get a max of 90% chance of getting 1 extra ultimate when gaining an ultimate. This might be interesting for some builds, but still not game changing as most will still lean towards Divines/Impenetrable.
This way, 2 very underwhelming traits get some purpose: win-win situation.

Edit: Of course the values could be adjusted, after reading my post again, 90% might be a little too much, haven't done the maths.

leeux

rhapsodious wrote: »

leeux wrote: »

Snip for brevity

For ICP and WGT (and probably trials? or maybe trials always worked that way? Dunno exactly right now, too lazy to look it up) they upped the drop rates to 100% per boss on Vet, so if they remove the traits you'll still get drops, just in traits you might actually want.

Yeah, agree there, and that's what I'm saying: they upped the drop rate to 100% WITH the inclusion training and prosperous. Everyone knows that those two traits have more chance to drop that the ones you need/want/seek... that's why I bet that if they are removed, probably the space they fill in the loot tables will be replaced with nothing. But that's my wild guess, anyway

Divinius

Remove Prosperous and Training from all drops, from everything, everywhere.
In other words, make Prosperous and Training available only from crafting.

EDIT:

Sallington wrote: »

Remove Prosperous and Training from endgame gear, add Impen to all PvE drops including Trial.
Prosperous and Training should only drop as random white gear from PvE mobs for research purposes.

Oh, right... I guess it needs to drop from somewhere to be able to learn it in the first place...

Grumble_and_Grunt

bimbo wrote: »

Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
No, because that would cause another war between PVE and PVP.


Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
Yes, because PVEr only care about the trial drop/sets. and PVPer can farm the gear they want from vet dungeons and such. a good mid-ground for both.


Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, please make this happen, no explanation needed

Cause a war how exactly? What does that even mean?

I don't see how suggesting that impenetrable should only drop in vet dungeons is a 'good mid-ground for both' Just look at the amount of sets available to you in trials in comparison to the vet dungeons we have... Segregating one half of the community from being able to creatively use the sets in PvP because you claim only players who PvE care about the sets is not a good mid ground. Look through and read the comments in this thread, there are lots of people who want to use the new trial sets in PvP. That is like me and you having a massive cake and you taking 3/4 of the cake for yourself because you assume I don't like chocolate...when I do!

Ghost-Shot

For all the PVE'rs who think impen drops will be useless to you, remember that impen Warlock/Sun/Dragon Guard etc.. will be gold mines to sell to PVP'rs who are not interested in doing the PVE content themselves. Not to mention it will make finding groups for PVE content easier when some of those people would rather farm it themselves.

RinaldoGandolphi

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I know this won't be popular with some forum folks Jessica, but Impenetrable is LONG overdue to be changed.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246089/impentrable-armor-trait-needs-to-be-adjusted/p1

I wrote about it back in Feb on the PTS and sure enough I was right.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246089/impentrable-armor-trait-needs-to-be-adjusted/p1

NO ONE runs anything else in PVP because Impenetrable is so good and in essences it has rendered all other traits useless.

Right now we have a game with two viable end game traits,

PVE runs Divines
PVP runs Impenetrable

everything else is not viable. I can not believe for one second this is what you guys/gals want. An Armor traits such as Impentrable should NOT be the deciding factor in a PVP fight, Traits are supposed to be "small benefits" not absolute game changers...Divines is not at the level in PVE that Impentrable is in PVP...you can "get by" with Infused and such in PVE if need be, but if you run anything but Impen in PVP your at a flat huge disadvantage period....this has to change...i was one of the few that worked so hard to get the old Impenetrable changed as in 1.5 and earlier no one wore anything but Impen and it negated crit builds completely, and now here we are again back to the same thing...1.6 actually allowed Reinforced, Nirn, Divines, and Infused be viable PVP traits, thats no longer the case.

What needs to happen is:

1. Impenetrable needs to be removed from game as an Armor Trait.
2. The Effects of Impentrable moved to the Wrath Skill of the Heavy Armor Tree and grants 250 points of Crit Resist for every piece of Heavy Armor you have equiped and requires atleast 5 pieces to function.
3. Impenetrable;e Trait replaced with a trait called Thaumaturgy which increases Spell Resist the same way Reinforced increases armor.

Impentrable and Crit resist are tank traits...you want crit resist? Wear Heavy Armor its pretty simple...right now Impentrable as render all other traits nearly useless in PVP, and Divines needs to be addressed by buffing Infused and Decisive to make them worthy competitors....

potirondb16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

# 1 Remove prosperous and trianing as valid traits from trial items set !

It would actually be nice if you could reconsider those traits from everywhere except open world and craftable. Those set are really only open world material and while other traits have little interest for pve'ers they still kind of fit into the idea that dongeon set should help you get better at Something, well-fited as an example is to me, more interesting on my healer that reinforced is so I kind of liked it when I couldn't find the best in slot item I was looking for, but as far as training and prosperous goes ...well they are different they applying passively to account experience and not characther one which for me is the indicator those traits should belong to open-world and not group.

# 2 Add Impenetrable as a valid traits (where)

I have mix feeling about where to add Impénétrables traits, if they drop from trial that mean that trial reward will forever be bound to pvp, and so will have to be consider that way when developping set.. which to me seems interesting... but also constraining.

On the other hand, adding Impenetrable for all Item except trial, means that a lot of gear set would actually become viable in pvp which seems nice.but also an ungoing issue because those same items required a lot of farming (in order to gather a full set) and that someone who's more into pvp isn't going to farm the set (furtherless the impen traits on each pièces).

So I'm wondering... for one if Impen should be added on everything ! I'm sure all Monster Set should be dropping Impen ! but other then that... I feel like adding impenetrable to the drop system might end up not helping anyone. BUT in a PERFECT WORLD all pve set should also drop in weapon and and ring which mean that someone doing pvp could actually gather those instead of the regular body pièces if he feels like it.

So that's my opinion. In a perfect world don't make it drop all impen, but make them all drop in ring and weapon so that a pvp player could actually gather any set he wants without having to gather full impen, Monster set apart.

EDIT |

While you are thinking about loot table, can you think about removing some traits from Maestrom Weapon such as Charged (which is litterally the most useless thing on an enchant that is ability trigger).

uzi

What needs to happen:

1. Add impenetrable to all possible dropped endgame loot

2. Leave training as a trait but remove it from endgame dropped loot or seriously lower the droprate

3. Prosperous needs to be completely redesigned, to have a secondary function (like impenetrable does now), or to do something completely different that has combat value or serious utility/ character progression value.

Helluin

LocoAztec wrote: »

Remove training and prosperous from all dungeon and Trial drops. Leave Impen on the crafted, PVP, and Telvar sets. If it needs to be added to replace I vote for not placing it in the Trials loot table.

I'd prefer this option as well.
With the changements to Nirnhoned, imho crafting could get something unique as trait or just the option to reshape/change once the trait of an item.

Joy_Division

Here is a better idea: Why doesn't ZoS actually make each trait desirable so that there isn't any discussion of what traits to remove/add and a whole lot less complaining about RNG/rewards because every trait, even if not perfect, will still be useful?

Earth-shattering, I know.

Last PTS ZoS asked us our opinion of its trait changes and with a resounding degree of consensus, we told them:

• Prosperous and Training are niche and undesirable for reward sets
• Nirhoned armor was dull and not very good
• Nobody would get excited about reinforced
• Impen was wanted in loot table
• Charged weapons were terrible
• Decisive was not worth it
• Sharpened was the obvious damage choice

Yet nothing was changed and here we are months later, people still frustrated with your RNG system, and stuck having to make changes to the loot table and game rewards because so many people think your traits are poorly designed.

damarky

code65536 wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Training % is comparable to the Cakebuff everyone worshipped ZOS for providing

Oh yes, Training is indeed awesome. I've always used full-Training gear when grinding/leveling my characters.

But my Training gear is crafted. Because I need it at various levels from 1-50. I don't want Training on the max-level gear I use when I want maximum combat effectiveness. People who are grinding out sets of Scathing and Spell Power Cure are not thinking, "Oh yea, this set would be great for grinding mobs!"

If I want to go level a character, I'll craft their Training gear.

Yip 4 Real

SublimeSparo

code65536 wrote: »

Tangential Note: Remove Charged from the vMA weapon drop table. I got a Charged dagger in my vMA weekly reward mail last night. I didn't even realize that this trait was in the loot table or that it was even possible for me to get a dagger more useless than the Defending or Powered daggers that I have.

I got 4, yes 4 charged weapons last week, charged battleaxe, charged mace and shield, charged lightning staff from the box and a gold charged mace and shield from leaderboards.
Like WTF.