The Impenetrable Trait & Item Sets

Dracane

Exclude impenetrable, prosperous and training from gear that drops in trials.

orim

Remove Prosperous and Training from all cp160 dropped gear
Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game
Simple and easy

Rhazmuz

Remove prosperous and training from all endgame gear (dungeons, trials etc) and add Impenetrable.

Darlon

Remove training and prosperous from ALL endgame drops, including Dungeons, undaunted chests etc (and NOT just from trials).

add impen if you want, I personally don't care much about it, but I know there's people that do..

ConeOfSilence

No point in having prosperous and training on end game gear.

damarky

Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets PLEASE

Its insane that you even brought these traits out for us, if we want to run around in and get extra coin we can just craft a set for that. IF we want to do the same thing for training we will do that too.

The only thing by doing this is *** off the community you know the peps that pay to buy the DLC's. I have come close to quiting this game due to the fact its such a grind to get your BIS items. i have done prisons over 400 times and still dont have a full set of scath mage divines. I noticed this last patch I have at least one drop at each boss of a set pc but guess what its 80% Prosperous or training that is just messed up. Its crazy to think its made it worse to grind prison farm runs cause you more likely get those 2 traits.

NO ONE WANTS Prosperous and Training - Prosperous has been proven to not even be Prosperous so take it away and do some thing good for the community before you loss more of whats left!!!.

Oh and while your there bring back Ninglenel or bring in training dummy's.

Only 2 things I dont like about this game both things you changed thinking you were making it better.

With VET DSA and AA and Hell Ra all being scaled up to 160 Champ points we are going to need dps training dummys even more to test our rotations.

and dont forget

Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets PLEASE

Keep the community happy do the right thing

Miss_Morphine

Remove Prosperous and Training from all dropped sets at the gear level cap. Training loses its usefulness very quickly and there is a reason why Prosperous is nicknamed by players Preposterous.
Add Sturdy and Impenetrable to all drop tables. Both traits have at least some use to most.

Also, whilst we're on the subject do something about vMA and in the future vDSA weapon traits. What is anyone supposed to do with a bow that increases healing done? I mean, really. As it is, with RNG drops you can farm vMA forever without getting what you want. Like someone suggested earlier, make weapons drop only with traits useful for that weapon.

Vivecc

remove prosperous and training from all endgame (cap) gear and add impenetrable

logosloki

Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop.

Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from [all] item sets.

Remove Prosperous completely and either add in a new trait or make every crafted set require one less trait to craft.

Leon119

BoE on dropped pieces is kinda moot with the upcoming update 11 where you can trade the drops between groups.

prosperous and training traits should be removed from the loot tables, prosperous because it adds no benefit at all given that the gold drops are too low to make it worthwhile and training because if you are doing the trials you really dont need it. training is extremely useful when leveling alts though so the trait is ok.

as a side note. treasure rooms in WGT and ICP drop pieces in breton motif atm for me. not sure if this is a known/reported bug or not so im mentioning it just in case

Scamandros

Impen has 0 value (I think) to any PvE build.
However Training and Prosperous have 0 value to any end game build, pve or pvp.

By removing the two and introducing impen you not only give pvp players more gear options, but also in a round about way improving drop rate of more useful traits for the PvE crowd, assuming chance of getting any trait is equal. There is still alot of rng involved in farming the pieces you want, but this is a good first step. Ty for taking the time to officially discussing it

Nichts

I will just copy/paste a comment I made a while ago about a solution, that would help everyone:

---

It is true, that getting the right item with the right trait is frustrating.
But you could introduce a token-system.

Lets use WGT as an example.

Earning of Tokens:
- nWGT: Each Boss 1 Token, Molag Kena 5 Token.
- vWGT: Each Boss 3 Token, Molage Kena 10 Token or with hardmode 15 Token

Spending Tokens:
Instead of getting random loot from the treasure chest, you can specify the following 4 properties of an item.

1) Normal Set (spell power cure) [100T] or Head (Molag Kena) [250T]
2) Light / Medium / Heavy [100T]
3) Trait [100T]
4) Style; standard = xivkyn does not apply to Molag Kena [50T]
[100T] = 100 Tokens.


Example:

1 Run vWGT hardmode = 24 Tokens
1 Run vWGT = 19 Tokens
1 Run nWGT = 8 Tokens

You want to play Spell Power Cure on a heavy armor item with trait impenetrable and style Argonian for PvP:
350 Tokens
- 15 runs in vWGT hardmode for this item, 75 runs for a complete set.
- 19 runs in vWGT non-hardmode or 93 runs for a complete set.
- 44 runs in nWGT or 219 runs for a complete set.

Additionally you have the chance to get the sets (in xivkyn style) from a drop.


The same can now be applied to any Dungen (eg ICP) or Trial and especially Maelstrom Arena / Dragon Star Arena


Do you guys remember all the discussions about nerfs of dungeons ?
So why don't we go further and introduce a scaling system with CPs ?
Lets say if you scale up the difficulty from 160 CP to 200CP (increased Damage, HP of Mobs) and recieve 10% more Tokens.

visionality

Remove training and prosperous.

Give us a chance to select or change the trait of dropped loot. I don't mind it being expensive, I don't mind it being bound on account. I don't mind having to do 10 vWGT runs to be able to get one set item with the trait that I really need. Still better then ending up with 10 that are unusuable.

Armitas

Trial sets drop Jewelry, and gold jewelry at that so I think most people will be going for 3 jewelry 2 armor rather than 5 armor. So in that case they only have 2 armor pieces to RNG for traits so it's not that bad if impen drops on trial gear.

Also impen has a PvE stat on it anyway, 50% less durability, loss which makes it a cross realm trait.

NinjaApacHe

These:

1 Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
2 Remove Prosperous and Training from the game

Deceptive_Yoshi

Sounds good to me

Runefang

Introduce a token system. No more rng please.

Transairion

Also impen has a PvE stat on it anyway, 50% less durability, loss which makes it a cross realm trait.

Please stop trying to say this is some desirable effect anyone in their right mind would want, because it's not. It never was, it never will be until repair costs go above 2k. Nobody ever even CRAFTED a set of it back then, because it was pointless, at least some people admit you can CRAFT Training/Prosperous.

Impen's "PvE version" is the old Sturdy. The old Sturdy was 50% less durability damage taken. Nobody wanted the Old Sturdy, for any reason. It was that bad. If you go back before Prosperous/Training, then all of you whining about getting Pros/Train pieces were whining about getting Sturdy pieces because Sturdy was the worst trait in the game. PvPers didn't want it, PvErs didn't want it, crafters didn't want it, nobody wanted it. The trait didn't leave, it just got slapped onto Impen and new Sturdy became reduced block cost instead.

PvE Impen is bad. PvP Impen is good.

DRXHarbinger

Delete training and prosperous from the game imo. Keep impen in all content, such as impen scathing mage would be good in pvp ie sharp staff and cp stacked in penetration = epic burst mode.

Currently impen is a beeeotch to research now as you have to buy it or actually do a lot of pvp.

Just don't have it on sets that are bop in trials such as vicious and Moondancer. They would be 100% useless in pvp. Unless you're willing to amend minor slayer to include enemy players then I would approve.

Miss_Morphine

Transairion wrote: »

Also impen has a PvE stat on it anyway, 50% less durability, loss which makes it a cross realm trait.

Please stop trying to say this is some desirable effect anyone in their right mind would want, because it's not. It never was, it never will be until repair costs go above 2k. Nobody ever even CRAFTED a set of it back then, because it was pointless, at least some people admit you can CRAFT Training/Prosperous.

Impen's "PvE version" is the old Sturdy. The old Sturdy was 50% less durability damage taken. Nobody wanted the Old Sturdy, for any reason. It was that bad. If you go back before Prosperous/Training, then all of you whining about getting Pros/Train pieces were whining about getting Sturdy pieces because Sturdy was the worst trait in the game. PvPers didn't want it, PvErs didn't want it, crafters didn't want it, nobody wanted it. The trait didn't leave, it just got slapped onto Impen and new Sturdy became reduced block cost instead.

PvE Impen is bad. PvP Impen is good.

More people used sturdy than use prosperous. How often do you run trials? Any endgame content? The usefulness of prosperous v impen is pretty clear there. Repairs are one of your greatest expenditures. Not that anyone in their right mind would run either, but benefits outweigh the costs. You either get no gold drops or very little in that kind of content. Same with PvP.
If that is not the content you enjoy doing then why on earth are you in this discussion?
You gave your feedback to ZOS, a lot of feedback. They can read your many posts.
Trying to convince other people won't change the simple fact that everybody and their mother hate prosperous and training drops. Most people would never run them or wish for them. They're bad. There's plenty of people here proving that point.

More options is not always good, especially if more options means 99.9% of people consistently getting things they will never use.
And if you insist that more options is still better I wish you many, many Maw of the Infernal shoulders, preferably all prosperous.

Edit: Oh, and on another note - as a person with a sorc main I want the summoning line GONE. THAT is a giant middle finger to players. The skill line isn't original or creative. It's bad. It's just as common as any other skill line in any class, the only reason you don't see it being used as often is because it SUCKS. Using things others don't want to use due to poor functionality doesn't make you special or different, it just shows that either you don't know how to play the game or you want to be different for the sake of being different. I don't know which is worse. The only other reason to use pets may be that it's fun - but watching two pets do small amounts of damage for you is anything but fun. It's not engaging or creative.
Do I want something with utility instead? You bet I do.

Aquanova

Yes! Add impenetrable back to all the loot tables, it made no sense to remove it in the first place.

Those of us who pve to get gear to pvp will be most grateful

code65536

Tangential Note: Remove Charged from the vMA weapon drop table. I got a Charged dagger in my vMA weekly reward mail last night. I didn't even realize that this trait was in the loot table or that it was even possible for me to get a dagger more useless than the Defending or Powered daggers that I have.

Transairion

More people used sturdy than use prosperous.

LOL, based on what? Nobody wanted old Sturdy for anything, there was (and is) no "niche" for lower armor degradation: at least Prosperous and Training have those going for it. Old Sturdy was literally what you consider Pros/Train now "Damn this isn't the trait I want, but at least it's a drop".

How often do you run trials? Any endgame content? The usefulness of prosperous v impen is pretty clear there. Repairs are one of your greatest expenditures. Not that anyone in their right mind would run either, but benefits outweigh the costs. You either get no gold drops or very little in that kind of content. Same with PvP.
If that is not the content you enjoy doing then why on earth are you in this discussion?

Same reason you're here, I imagine: because you want ZOS to do what you want. Except unlike you, I represent the few (few few) people who actually want the option to have Prosperous/Training set items, while most everyone else hates getting them so wants them removed entirely. That's not an option ZOS is even offering, but all the same I'm making it clear that some people don't want them just up and gone.

You gave your feedback to ZOS, a lot of feedback. They can read your many posts.
Trying to convince other people won't change the simple fact that everybody and their mother hate prosperous and training drops. Most people would never run them or wish for them. They're bad. There's plenty of people here proving that point.

More options is not always good, especially if more options means 99.9% of people consistently getting things they will never use.
And if you insist that more options is still better I wish you many, many Maw of the Infernal shoulders, preferably all prosperous.

Training % is comparable to the Cakebuff everyone worshipped ZOS for providing, so trying to convince me it's bad (except on Trial gear) is a lost cause. And hell, when the next Cake event drops everyone will be clamoring for training too, so hey I won't feel bad wearing Training Molag Kena while others are bumming about in Ashen Grip. Prosperous is an entirely different story that nobody wants to test so little is known about how bad it actually is, and I'm not pretending it's toptier either.

Droprate on Train/Props isn't 99.9%, so hyperbole doesn't help your argument any. I get lots of junk traits too (why would I would new Sturdy on anything but a tank set, again?), but I move on and keep playing. Even if Train/Props are totally removed, you'll STILL be complaining about the "next worst trait" dropping until there's nothing left but Impen and Divines. Until the loot system changes entirely, it'll stay that way as it has stayed from launch... RNG will be RNG, people will never be happy getting "bad traits".

By all means though, send me all those Maw of Infernal Shoulders, I'm missing one in Training still (and my only Skoria helm after several months of Pledges is a Prosperous one).

CasNation

I will just jump in here and say:

YES, add Impen to ALL endgame loot drops (including Trials).

YES remove Prosperous and Training from Trials AND ALSO every other endgame activity! I don't want any more prosperous SPC shoes! They are useless!

Ishammael

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop

YES

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials

NO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

YES

Transairion

YES remove Prosperous and Training from Trials AND ALSO every other endgame activity! I don't want any more prosperous SPC shoes! They are useless!

I feel obligated to ask, are Reinforced/Sturdy/Nirnhorned etc SPC Shoes anymore useful, really? Pretty much anything other than Impen or Divines seems to be labelled "useless", with Sturdy useful on tanks and no other role really.

Or am I just crazy and people are jumping at joy at receiving a Sturdy Light Armor Crown of the Lich?

MacCait

I agree, remove prosperous and training!

jkolb2030

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

Yes to all of these, for the most part...

-Trial sets that have 5 piece bonus that do not affect players in PvP really should not need Impen as a trait; but simply remove Prosperous/Training from their RNG.

-Trial sets that are able to be used against players (Viper/Skirmisher) should be able to have Impen rolled on them - They may not be amazing PvP choices, but having Impen rolled on them could open more player builds and diversity.


Prosperous/Training should be removed from all CP160 gear in general. The ability to get extra exp after CP160 (i.e CP grinding) is far outweighed by the desire to begin building your end game gear to complete the hardest content in the game; you simply expect to gain CP as you go. Training should be kept to RNG on gear lower than the level cap, and off of Trial/End Game gear and sets.

Prosperous...This trait should be re-designed in its entirety! The gold to be made in this game is coming directly from selling end-game esque gear in traders/between guildies and friends. *The only way this trait could potentially be used is when grinding mobs to get higher gold drops - but why would you want higher gold drops when you could be getting more exp from the Training trait when grinding mobs? Well, you wouldn't - Training trumps Prosperous when you look at the actual scenarios in which they'd be viable. *

Replace Prosperous with a new trait, any type of trait will do at this point! To get your minds going - a thorns trait that returns "x" amount of damage to melee attackers.. I don't see how thorns could be any more desirable for PvE with Divines being so good, but its more appealing than Prosperous nonetheless.

bimbo

Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
No, because that would cause another war between PVE and PVP.


Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
Yes, because PVEr only care about the trial drop/sets. and PVPer can farm the gear they want from vet dungeons and such. a good mid-ground for both.


Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, please make this happen, no explanation needed

Jesh

At CP 160 (and all future cap raises) make add Impen to all loot tables (even Trials) and remove Prosperous and Training from every CP160 gear drop in the game.

I agree with others in this thread that Prosperous needs to be seriously reworked if you want to keep it in the loot table. In my opinion you should try to rework it into something that would also be interesting to PVP players, that way there would be 2 traits in the loot table they could be targeting.

However... all this discussion could be obviated if you just implemented the ability to "reforge" or have "Trait Slots" (or whatever you want to call it) which would allow for much more freedom of experimentation, and appease the bitterness of those lowly players curses by the RNGeezus. (this could be implemented in a way similar to enchantments, but maybe for a fee - but I just think the freedom of experimentation and flexibility in the system would be phenomenal)

Thank you for taking the traits in the loot table seriously @ZOS_GinaBruno (and welcome back!!).