Sorcs, truly that bad now?

kazter304b16_ESO · June 2016

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

Burning_Talons · June 2016

Sorcs are doing fine. Except the terribad ones who just complain. This is torwards PvP

Grao · June 2016

kazter304b16_ESO wrote: »

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

While sorcerer Magicka DPS wasn't particularly affected by the changes in DB, the class still features among the lowest DPS and least flexible, entertaining build. Magicka sorcerers still have to triple slot 2 abilities, one of which nightblades get as a passive and that considerably reduces the number of useful actives you can have in your bars. Pets are still close to useless at least in DPS builds as their damage does not scale with your champion points and because they are not affected by the summoner's passives. Meanwhile, the classes survivability in single combat content, both for PvE and PvP was severely nerfed.

It seems there are still some interesting possibilities for stamina sorcerers, but if your intention is to create a magicka caster, I'd advise any other class.

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Sorcs are doing fine. Except the terribad ones who just complain. This is torwards PvP

Funny... Though you clearly main Dks and second as a templar, you went straight to your sorcerer to run tests when DB was released for Xbox? Don't advise players in what you have such small experience on.

gamerguy757 · June 2016

They aren't dead, but now take some actual skill to play. I literally just beat vMA with my sorcerer and it wasn't easy, but I did it with around 7 deaths. I don't know the score since I had to leave for work.

Noerknhar · June 2016

No huge difference to before the patch. Haven't tried vMA or PVP tho.

Grao wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Sorcs are doing fine. Except the terribad ones who just complain. This is torwards PvP

Funny... Though you clearly main Dks and second as a templar, you went straight to your sorcerer to run tests when DB was released for Xbox? Don't advise players in what you have such small experience on.

seconded.

Father_X_Zombie · June 2016

I didn't think the changes would be that bad, until I went into PvP. The first guy I fight obviously is a stam nightblade, I put up my shields and by the time he comes out of stealth and fears me, my shields are down and I'm dead from 2 ambushes and an incap strike.He didn't even have to attack my shields, he just waited.

I agree that sorcs were powerful before DB, but 6s just isn't enough time for shields. To answer your question, magicka in general is in a bad spot but I'd go with magplar for now.

RebornV3x · June 2016

I would honestly level anything but a Sorcerer I have a Magicka Templar myself and its wonderful. Its not that sorcs are bad its just there lacking vital skills to make them better. Every class outperforms Sorc in almost all aspects of the game.

SanSan · June 2016

To me they will always be bad with pet summons.

Duiwel · June 2016

Funny that some people are owning the current Meta BIS guys with sorcs then...

Shouldn't they die like lambs if they are so bad?

Practise OP!

Play what you want IF you are good enough you can beat anyone, with anything.

I'd say my personal advantage over other people in PvP is probably my vast knowledge of every class' skill...

Because I have so many chars I have experimented with everything, I know what they all do, what their animations look like ect.

So I can counter effectively and determine the best course of action, now while I do NOT recommend this as it's a lot to remember I DO recommend LEARNING your class in and out. Every detail.

What skills are used for buffs, when Crystal frags is proc'd and ready to be used. When to use Mages Fury, when to streak, all of those things are SUPER important...

How to utilize Daedric mines effectively... this is not only for PvP but PvE also.

Sorcs are squishy if not played correctly but a "glass cannon" can always win if played right.

Beardimus · June 2016

They are fine. Play what you want and enjoy and don't worry about the small amount of players that feedback on here. Adapt and overcome I'd say if there are probs!

Flaminir · June 2016

Its not like their DPS is 50% lower than any other class.... so 'bad'... probably not... They can def still compete, especially in the hands of a good player who knows the class.

Boring, two dimensional, lower dps than other classes, pigeon holed into 1 build, no specialism and sub par compared to other classes... Yes.

Grao · June 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

Play what you want IF you are good enough you can beat anyone, with anything.

No, there is such a thing called math... Can't beat that and unfortunately sorcerers best potential is bellow the other classes.

Flaminir wrote: »

Its not like their DPS is 50% lower than any other class.... so 'bad'... probably not... They can def still compete, especially in the hands of a good player who knows the class.

Boring, two dimensional, lower dps than other classes, pigeon holed into 1 build, no specialism and sub par compared to other classes... Yes.

Any class that is two dimensional, boring to play and underperforms in every role in the game when compared to the other classes is 'bad'. I think that is the definition of a 'bad' class in a MMO.

InvitationNotFound · June 2016

Noerknhar wrote: »

No huge difference to before the patch. Haven't tried vMA or PVP tho.

Grao wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Sorcs are doing fine. Except the terribad ones who just complain. This is torwards PvP

Funny... Though you clearly main Dks and second as a templar, you went straight to your sorcerer to run tests when DB was released for Xbox? Don't advise players in what you have such small experience on.

seconded.

wtf... so you were crafting all day long so not much has changed?

kazter304b16_ESO wrote: »

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

the class got nerfed in many aspects and builds that were viable aren't anymore. so we have less variety. besides all the low dps thing and being f*****d big time good sorcs can still compete to a certain degree. but imho the class isn't fun to play at all anymore.

Cinnamon_Spider · June 2016

The shield nerf was too harsh. The Bolt Escape nerf was too harsh. The dodge nerf even hit sorcs hard. The changes make it very tough to play, especially if you were used to how these skills used to work. The good sorcs are adapting, yet it is very frustrating.

Reevster · June 2016

They are not bad, just takes a bit more skill to play as others have said.

Seems most unskilled 20 second shield sorc players are moving to easy mode magblades, don't be one of those....

Izaki · June 2016

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

the class got nerfed in many aspects and builds that were viable aren't anymore. so we have less variety. besides all the low dps thing and being f*****d big time good sorcs can still compete to a certain degree. but imho the class isn't fun to play at all anymore.

Well I really can't agree with you here. What was nerfed ? The shield duration ? If your shields last 20 seconds means you either aren't getting hit or your shields would be uber strong. In vMA, in PvP, in 4-man boss fight or in trials I've never seen my shield last more than 10 sec. Well guess what, we do have a shield that lasts 10 seconds and gives you 10% mag recovery (which is IMO way better than what harness magicka gives you when you're hit). Remember that Conjurd ward has 2 morphs. And Hardened Ward is now worse than Dampen Magic. So there's no reason for crying nerf when the change isn't really significant. You can bar swap you know

The thing about surge is it would be really good if it didn't have a cooldown. Otherwise it would be pretty good if you're a stam sorc and stack up DoTs with bow and dual wield you'd always have your health at full. Or if you crit on all three hits in crushing shock you'd get some decent healing too. That's the only thing that made me switch to entropy for PvP this patch.

Sorcs were always running the same build, so i don't see how pre-DB had more variety than now. Its true that you;ll have to switch out your Nirnhoned Staff for a Sharpened one... You still got 3 shields, you still got mines and streak, you still got frags and curse. Come on stop complaining about these changes. Sorcs need a ton of relooking, i even made a thread about that, but the changes in DB don't affect the sorc as much as everyone thinks.

InvitationNotFound · June 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

the class got nerfed in many aspects and builds that were viable aren't anymore. so we have less variety. besides all the low dps thing and being f*****d big time good sorcs can still compete to a certain degree. but imho the class isn't fun to play at all anymore.

Well I really can't agree with you here. What was nerfed ? The shield duration ? If your shields last 20 seconds means you either aren't getting hit or your shields would be uber strong. In vMA, in PvP, in 4-man boss fight or in trials I've never seen my shield last more than 10 sec. Well guess what, we do have a shield that lasts 10 seconds and gives you 10% mag recovery (which is IMO way better than what harness magicka gives you when you're hit). Remember that Conjurd ward has 2 morphs. And Hardened Ward is now worse than Dampen Magic. So there's no reason for crying nerf when the change isn't really significant. You can bar swap you know

The thing about surge is it would be really good if it didn't have a cooldown. Otherwise it would be pretty good if you're a stam sorc and stack up DoTs with bow and dual wield you'd always have your health at full. Or if you crit on all three hits in crushing shock you'd get some decent healing too. That's the only thing that made me switch to entropy for PvP this patch.

Sorcs were always running the same build, so i don't see how pre-DB had more variety than now. Its true that you;ll have to switch out your Nirnhoned Staff for a Sharpened one... You still got 3 shields, you still got mines and streak, you still got frags and curse. Come on stop complaining about these changes. Sorcs need a ton of relooking, i even made a thread about that, but the changes in DB don't affect the sorc as much as everyone thinks.

a lot of bs here.

There are plenty of situation where your shield lasts longer than 6 respectively 10 secs in a fight. The current 10 sec shield is a joke due to its lower value, 1 hit gets through and will damage you.

weapon swap for shielding = bs as well. you'll loose duration of the shield for both swaping to the bar to shield, back to damage bar (and probably back again in advance because it doesn't matter if it is scratched or not, you won't let it run it).

Furthermore, costs have increased, which means you'll have to adjust for more magicka regen, which results in a decreased shield value.

you switched to entropy for the healing purpose in pvp? well, i guess that says a lot... lol

sorcs weren't always running the same builds. all dw builds are being f****d with this dlc resulting in one build (except you want to go for some pets, which is... not most peoples play style).

3 shields where they last 6 each... you mostly will use 2, max...

again, it is a nerf, which hurts the class pretty bad. good sorcs will still be able to fight, but it simply isn't fun anymore.

and i have to say it a gain at this point, make inevitable detonation great again

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269268/inevitable-detonation

coyteriarwb17_ESO · June 2016

The class is absolutely pathetic

darthsithis · June 2016

Ok so I thought sorcs would suck so I started a mag blade. got good with her, but she was so squishy that it made me really just become a better player. Healing ward, managing resources better, dealing with good powerful moves but that won't fill your whole health bar....

Hopped back on my sorc and its a joke. Almost got a flawless vmsa run.

So no, they are still viable. Completely. They are just gank-able now

holosoul · June 2016

darthsithis wrote: »

Ok so I thought sorcs would suck so I started a mag blade. got good with her, but she was so squishy that it made me really just become a better player. Healing ward, managing resources better, dealing with good powerful moves but that won't fill your whole health bar....

Hopped back on my sorc and its a joke. Almost got a flawless vmsa run.

So no, they are still viable. Completely. They are just gank-able now

"Sorcs are easier in solo PVE than magblades" no one cares

Makkir · June 2016

i get killed more often by the horrendous performance on Trueflame than anything else. Playing a sorc, imo, relies more heavily on reliable bar swapping and no lag than the other classes. thats my .02 though. I just think theres less forgiveness for lag as a sorc

Digiman · June 2016

darthsithis wrote: »

Ok so I thought sorcs would suck so I started a mag blade. got good with her, but she was so squishy that it made me really just become a better player. Healing ward, managing resources better, dealing with good powerful moves but that won't fill your whole health bar....

Hopped back on my sorc and its a joke. Almost got a flawless vmsa run.

So no, they are still viable. Completely. They are just gank-able now

Dead give away is the almost flawless, second is you said they are viable then complemented them on being gankable. I don't think you play a sorcerer, I think you lost to a lot of sorcerers because your DPS is lackluster but it's obvious you don't play one.

The class is viable for 5 mans and such, but it isn't fun or thriving. You stuck trying stack ultimate up to 1000 to spam left clicks on overload. That isn't fun!

But do pray tell us why you switched to magicka nightblade though? Curious that it's magicka build and you used the term gank...

Autolycus · June 2016

Stam sorcs are in a really good place now. But of course, this is subjective and people will disagree. Survivability, damage output, and sustain is in a better place now than it has been historically.

Magicka sorcs are not terrible. There are some notable drawbacks to being one since the DB update, and some of the changes forced magicka sorcs into a place where they are capable, but not excellent, at any role. They can heal, dps, or tank effectively, but other classes typically outperform magicka sorcs when specializing in any one of the three. That doesn't make them bad.

Magicka sorcs are continually being backed into an Overload corner. What I mean by this is that, to be a "super awesome" magicka dps sorc, you're pretty much limited to doing an overload build. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but be prepared to accept this as your build for foreseeable near-future as a magicka sorc. I have a magicka sorc, for whom I'm currently still working out the final build, but a friend of mine already has his put together with some of the new (revived) sets. He is pulling 44k self-buffed on Blood Spawn (no war horns, SPC, powerful assault, vulnerability poison, alkosh, etc). This is comparable to the damage that a fully buffed stam DK could pull. So, to summarize: Magicka sorcs are not very versatile right now, but if you like Overload builds, you can blow some other builds out of the water.

On a side note, sneak attack damage isn't very useful in vMA, because you can't sneak. You can try cloaking repeatedly, but this isn't a very effective method of taking on vMA imho.

NBrookus · June 2016

kazter304b16_ESO wrote: »

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

PvE-wise, my sorc now runs around slaughtering mobs with ease in Craglorn with 11k health and rarely uses a shield... in my PvP gear. Still very capable of DPSing dungeons and bosses. In that respect, sorcs are totally fine and may be even stronger with the new spell damage enchants. If magicka sorc appeals to you for this kind of content, go for it.

If your ultimate plans involve competitive trials and PvP, you are better off at the moment with another class. Magplar offers ranged and melee magicka playstyle, are very versatile, and feels more "magicka" to me. (You don't have to just jab spam.) Magicka DKs are great melee casters -- although also comparatively weak in PvP right now -- and offer a lot of group utility.

In PvP few sorcs are making it all work, but they are pretty much all using the same build and rotation. I think most of these surviving, successful sorc players are good enough to make anything work. Many more good sorcs just quit PvPing on their sorc. If you aren't in the "good" or "elite" category, you are just a walking bundle of AP unless you are the negate money or overload spamming from behind the zerg. Snore.

Kammakazi · June 2016

My Sorcerer still has the same damage output from last patch.

The only downside is its survivability.

It's garbage.

Surge is ***.

bryanhaas · June 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

The shield nerf was too harsh. The Bolt Escape nerf was too harsh. The dodge nerf even hit sorcs hard. The changes make it very tough to play, especially if you were used to how these skills used to work. The good sorcs are adapting, yet it is very frustrating.

Is your user name from Jack off Jill? I recall that song.

bryanhaas · June 2016

kazter304b16_ESO wrote: »

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

It's not that bad, I actually have more survivibility on my sorc but did have to play it a little different. If you liked sorc before you will probably like it now.

Mush55 · June 2016

Reevster wrote: »

They are not bad, just takes a bit more skill to play as others have said.

Seems most unskilled 20 second shield sorc players are moving to easy mode magblades, don't be one of those....

Ye easy mode mage blades that do more damage bring more utility and are more fun to play whilst not being pigeon holed into one build and relying on one skill to pull good numbers.

Sorcs don't take more skill to play now they take more luck to get it right.

Pve point of view.....

Serenityx · June 2016

I really dont get what their is to complain about the sorc class. Its not like the whole summoning line is worthless because it has 2 pet abilitys. You guys have DoT curses, a powerful timed not to mention automatic execute, all alongside cfrags. Plus major sorcery and brutality in one ability if you choose to use it. You cant have 5 times the sustain of any other class and still be able to average such high DPS. Well actually you can, its just not easy mode anymore.

Grao · June 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

I really dont get what their is to complain about the sorc class. Its not like the whole summoning line is worthless because it has 2 pet abilitys. You guys have DoT curses, a powerful timed not to mention automatic execute, all alongside cfrags. Plus major sorcery and brutality in one ability if you choose to use it. You cant have 5 times the sustain of any other class and still be able to average such high DPS. Well actually you can, its just not easy mode anymore.

Actually, there are three pets, you are forgetting to count the ultimate, but I can't blame you, at this day almost no one uses it except maybe for one on one dueling since the damage of pets is not affected or proc our sorcerer passives or is affected by our champion points.

Meanwhile Curse, which you called a DoT, is no longer considered so and thus is no longer affected by Thaumaturgy, which significantly lowered its damage. We also have Bound Aegis, a good skill, except if you remember it is a toggle, meaning it has to be triple slotted and what does it gives a sorcerer? Something Nightblades get as a passive. The entire summoning tree needs some serious redesigning.

The execute you mentioned and didn't even try naming, Mage's Wrath, is the weakest execute in the game, featuring the lowest execute damage and threshold. As for Crystal Fragments... Well, wouldn't we all love to have our damage tied to a 35% crappy RNG?

We are not saying sorcerers can't complete the current content, but the number of abilities we have that underperform since the release of the Champion System and the implementation of normalized buffs is ***. That, plus the lack of basic abilities every other class is afforded (such as a single target spammable), has lead to an extremely stagnant rotation and build with the most boring game play in ESO. By being forced into two toggles (because we still have to slot inner light in every bar), sorcerers end up with very few actives to play with, our only useful ultimate is and has always been very buggy and is also extremely boring (though powerful in short fights). The class simply underperforms in every role when compared to the other classes and thus, there is no point in playing a sorcerer.

Brutusmax1mus · June 2016

Love my new sorc. Dks are an issue but I'll learn. The third back to back cc is the bane of any magic dps build. It gets me even with shields since they only last 6 seconds. But that wasn't an issue, i should have refreshed then sooner.

Hitting people with the burst of a sorc Is so fun. Most are just a cs and mages wrath away from death.