Sorcs, truly that bad now?

Cinnamon_Spider

After playing my sorc the past few days, and tweaking my build slightly, I'm feeling much more comfortable. I really miss my old Destro/Sword and Shield build with Crit Surge heals and Defensive Stance, but I've had some fun all the same with Destro/Resto.

I definitely die more often in situations I've lived through in the past, but I've gotten to the point of being comfortable with 16k health. I've even survived my share of attempted ganks.

bryanhaas wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

The shield nerf was too harsh. The Bolt Escape nerf was too harsh. The dodge nerf even hit sorcs hard. The changes make it very tough to play, especially if you were used to how these skills used to work. The good sorcs are adapting, yet it is very frustrating.

Is your user name from Jack off Jill? I recall that song.

Partly, yes.

Francescolg

I'm having great fun with my sorcerer, especially with the new morph of lightning form, Hurricane, which gives the minor expedition buff, combined with rapid manoeuver, I get a 16 second lasting max-speed, which no other class can achieve (16 sec.!). This alone improved sorc mobility, making my sorc the fastest char on the battlefield (even if magicka-spec'd you can go this way).

I can still port left and right with Ball of Lightning, which greatly improves my defense, if used correctly. You can also use Ball of Lighting aggressively, the "projectile absorb" works like a charm and I never understood all that streak-hype..

Crystal Fragments is as strong as it has ever been and nowhere as useless, as somebody quoted... BS... Everything, and I mean everything you do, even casting your absorb shield, or porting-away,..., can proc your monster instant DD spell!
Though, I admit, it is hard to see/notice sometimes, because of lighting form's blue effects. This is sth. ZOS should rework, to make the CF-proc more visible!

Restoring Twilight's heal is still strong as [snip] and saved the group in difficult moments in countless random dungeons. It's nice to be able to rescue your group just with a pet, even if it is standing verrrrry far (I hope they don't nurf pet-heal range!)

The new morph of Dark Exchange, Dark Heal, feels a little bit OP to me, as it offer very good HP + Stamina regeneration. Surge was nurfed, ok, but my sorcerer now has 4-5 CONSTISTENT possibilities to heal himself: Dark Heal, Restoring Twilight, Unstable Clannfear, Surge AND blood magic passive and ALL of them, except surge, give me a burst heal.

I'd even say that, with the right spec and in the hands of a competent player (not the one quoting me afters this post), a sorcerer can heal himself even better (!) than a Magicka Templar.

I will never take my Templar out of the garage again: less well-off absorb shield, NO WAY to GET AWAY, while, on my Sorc, I will simply push the panic-button and open my third skill bar and then start teleporting, using rapid manoeuver + hurricane for max, and I mean maximum speed available. (if your stamina won't suffice, simply use dark conversion, do cancel-animation with block).

I've to be honest, I'm still testing what changes occurred after this patch, before I can say more!

Normally I wait some weeks before writing any statements, it is too early to complain. Imo, this patch was a BUFF, this is how it feels in PvP.

Minalan

Francescolg wrote: »

I'm having great fun with my sorcerer, especially with the new morph of lightning form, Hurricane, which gives the minor expedition buff, combined with rapid manoeuver, I get a 16 second lasting max-speed, which no other class can achieve (16 sec.!). This alone improved sorc mobility, making my sorc the fastest char on the battlefield (even if magicka-spec'd you can go this way).

I can still port left and right with Ball of Lightning, which greatly improves my defense, if used correctly. You can also use Ball of Lighting aggressively, the "projectile absorb" works like a charm and I never understood all that streak-hype..

Crystal Fragments is as strong as it has ever been and nowhere as useless, as somebody quoted... BS... Everything, and I mean everything you do, even casting your absorb shield, or porting-away,..., can proc your monster instant DD spell!
Though, I admit, it is hard to see/notice sometimes, because of lighting form's blue effects. This is sth. ZOS should rework, to make the CF-proc more visible!

Restoring Twilight's heal is still strong as [snip] and saved the group in difficult moments in countless random dungeons. It's nice to be able to rescue your group just with a pet, even if it is standing verrrrry far (I hope they don't nurf pet-heal range!)

The new morph of Dark Exchange, Dark Heal, feels a little bit OP to me, as it offer very good HP + Stamina regeneration. Surge was nurfed, ok, but my sorcerer now has 4-5 CONSTISTENT possibilities to heal himself: Dark Heal, Restoring Twilight, Unstable Clannfear, Surge AND blood magic passive and ALL of them, except surge, give me a burst heal.

I'd even say that, with the right spec and in the hands of a competent player (not the one quoting me afters this post), a sorcerer can heal himself even better (!) than a Magicka Templar.

I will never take my Templar out of the garage again: less well-off absorb shield, NO WAY to GET AWAY, while, on my Sorc, I will simply push the panic-button and open my third skill bar and then start teleporting, using rapid manoeuver + hurricane for max, and I mean maximum speed available. (if your stamina won't suffice, simply use dark conversion, do cancel-animation with block).

I've to be honest, I'm still testing what changes occurred after this patch, before I can say more!

Normally I wait some weeks before writing any statements, it is too early to complain. Imo, this patch was a BUFF, this is how it feels in PvP.

We must not be playing the same game.

Hurricane is a stamina ability, it does physical damage that scales with stamina and mighty. A Magicka sorc using this is going to run out of stamina in one cast. You certainly won't have enough to RUN for 16 seconds.

Twilight matriarch will get two shotted in PVP, so you have no big heal. Nobody is going to let you cast another before killing you.

Dark Heal takes a full second to cast. In a running fight, using that is suicide. Healing ward is instant, it shields you, and it can nearly heal you to full. They should have made it a HOT.

Crystal Frags Is still good, but still. No other class has its main DPS tied to a 35% proc. Plus, it scales off max Magicka and the elemental CP, not stamina. I'm not quite sure which you are.

Calling all of this great in PVP, I mean. It works if all you do is surf zergs. Otherwise, it's going to be a bitter disappointment.

Burning_Talons

Grao wrote: »

kazter304b16_ESO wrote: »

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

While sorcerer Magicka DPS wasn't particularly affected by the changes in DB, the class still features among the lowest DPS and least flexible, entertaining build. Magicka sorcerers still have to triple slot 2 abilities, one of which nightblades get as a passive and that considerably reduces the number of useful actives you can have in your bars. Pets are still close to useless at least in DPS builds as their damage does not scale with your champion points and because they are not affected by the summoner's passives. Meanwhile, the classes survivability in single combat content, both for PvE and PvP was severely nerfed.

It seems there are still some interesting possibilities for stamina sorcerers, but if your intention is to create a magicka caster, I'd advise any other class.

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Sorcs are doing fine. Except the terribad ones who just complain. This is torwards PvP

Funny... Though you clearly main Dks and second as a templar, you went straight to your sorcerer to run tests when DB was released for Xbox? Don't advise players in what you have such small experience on.

I seen sorcs completely dominating post DB if they can do it anyone can except for the ones who arent good

Archmage1

Damage is still decent. Survivability is absolutely horrible and unplayable compared to other classes. Major fixes are in order....and soon.

Dixa

kazter304b16_ESO wrote: »

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

honestly? sorcs have always been "bad" in a way since launch, because they rely on an awful lot of abilities that you need to keep a copy of on both or all three bars.

the class still has far too many abilities that nobody ever uses.

having said all that, stam sorc is a blast to play in pve right now and i'm enjoying it more than my stam and magicka nightblades and my magicka sorc. i find templar and dk playstyles too boring so i have no experience with either.

my stam sorc actually feels more survivable than my magicka nightblade.

kazter304b16_ESO

I've been looking at stam sorc alot since Fengrush posted his VMA build. How viable are they as a pve dps though in comparison to everyone else. Seems more of a solo orientated build

Grao

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

kazter304b16_ESO wrote: »

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

While sorcerer Magicka DPS wasn't particularly affected by the changes in DB, the class still features among the lowest DPS and least flexible, entertaining build. Magicka sorcerers still have to triple slot 2 abilities, one of which nightblades get as a passive and that considerably reduces the number of useful actives you can have in your bars. Pets are still close to useless at least in DPS builds as their damage does not scale with your champion points and because they are not affected by the summoner's passives. Meanwhile, the classes survivability in single combat content, both for PvE and PvP was severely nerfed.

It seems there are still some interesting possibilities for stamina sorcerers, but if your intention is to create a magicka caster, I'd advise any other class.

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Sorcs are doing fine. Except the terribad ones who just complain. This is torwards PvP

Funny... Though you clearly main Dks and second as a templar, you went straight to your sorcerer to run tests when DB was released for Xbox? Don't advise players in what you have such small experience on.

I seen sorcs completely dominating post DB if they can do it anyone can except for the ones who arent good

A person dominating another in PvP depends on the quality of both sides, besides... How have you even seen anything in PvP? You are in a XBox One... As far as I am aware your game is so crazy bugged right now a huge aount of your player base can barely login in a city...

karakondzula

Sorc is still pretty good, only bad players are crying. I've seen some nasty ones that can still melt faces in 1v x.

DannyLV702

Sorcs are just as good as last patch. I did my first post DB VMA run last night, to see how handicap my sorc really was, and I still finished with just over five deaths and with my usual time. This was all without potions too because I'm cheap if I'm not going for a high score lol

susmitds

Grao wrote: »

kazter304b16_ESO wrote: »

With the removal of vet ranks looking to start up my sorc again, who was also my first to vet 1.

However,all I see is how bad they are now. I have a magplar whom I actually find dps boring but prefer healing.

How bad is magical now? Huge difference between magic a and stam for dps?

While sorcerer Magicka DPS wasn't particularly affected by the changes in DB, the class still features among the lowest DPS and least flexible, entertaining build. Magicka sorcerers still have to triple slot 2 abilities, one of which nightblades get as a passive and that considerably reduces the number of useful actives you can have in your bars. Pets are still close to useless at least in DPS builds as their damage does not scale with your champion points and because they are not affected by the summoner's passives. Meanwhile, the classes survivability in single combat content, both for PvE and PvP was severely nerfed.

It seems there are still some interesting possibilities for stamina sorcerers, but if your intention is to create a magicka caster, I'd advise any other class.

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Sorcs are doing fine. Except the terribad ones who just complain. This is torwards PvP

Funny... Though you clearly main Dks and second as a templar, you went straight to your sorcerer to run tests when DB was released for Xbox? Don't advise players in what you have such small experience on.

What are you saying, lowest DPS? Cookie cutter MagSorcs have the second highest PvE DPS.

Calboy

Loving my stam sorc however I feel like a glass cannon due to the lack of defensive abilities available to me

Gargath

I'm always wondering why people run and fight with 2 different pets summoned at the same time, i.e Twilight and Clannfear. While I like Clannfear for it's tanking ability as magicka light sorc is quite sensitive for damage, the Twilight isn't that useful (for me at least) and takes one slot away from more powerful spells.

Mayrael

Heh.. Dunno about stam sorc but mag sorc isnt fun to play anymore. No spammable dd skill, no magical melee range skill that cant be reflected, no spamable heal in pvp (no mattriarch heal isnt it as pets are to dumb and weak to survive in pvp and 1s dark exchange isnt spamable). If you will try very hard sorc can compete with others but why? I have all mag classes and can say without any doubts that sorc is least fun to play. I like templar most, then there is magblade, mag dk and sorc. Its my personal choice but sorc was my first toon, the reason i started to play eso and its a bit disapointing to see what heve became since 1.5.

psychotic13

I was playing my mag sorc for a few hours in cyrodil and I do think they're lacking. I'm ok with using crushing shock as my spammable, I'm a 'sorcerer' so I'm ok with using a staff on this character.

What I think needs changing:

Hardened Ward
I think even 8 seconds would be decent enough here, the amount of times you have to cast this to keep it up is pretty annoying, casting this then annulment doesn't give you long to deal damage before having to recast.

Dark Exchange
Hardened ward wouldn't even need to be changed if this was a reliable heal, the amount it heals for in cyrodil is garbage, especially cause of the cast time. And I don't believe healing ward is reliable either, if you have a few allies around you they always end up getting the shield which results in your own death. How wrobel compared this to dark flare I have no idea, 'high risk, high reward' the lame heal I get from this isn't a reward it's a suicide attempt if I'm in a battle. How can you compare that to what I think is the hardest hitting Magicka ability in the game (not including ultis)

Give us a DoT
I've seen people mention that surge now can proc from dots? But we don't have any? Lose one of the many abilities that don't get used and give us a DoT

I'm not asking for a hard hitting spammable dps move or 20 second shields, I just want some reliability cause with lag in cyrodil, a cast timed heal is never going to be good.

AtAfternoon

I've played around with a NB the past week and what strikes me is that there's no ability or morph that I can't see a reason to not use in some circumstance.

But sorcs have Crystal blast and with Rune prison along with the two morphs Rune cage and Defensive Rune. Restraining Prison probably have some utility as an AoE CC for stamina-based character who don't use have anything better to spend magicka on but otherwise it's up there among the other.

Duiwel

Grao wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Play what you want IF you are good enough you can beat anyone, with anything.

No, there is such a thing called math... Can't beat that and unfortunately sorcerers best potential is bellow the other classes.

Ok so say there is a fight the following are factors to take into this "mathematical equation" :

Character skills (In other words class skills)
Gear ( Armour, weapons, jewellery (incl. sets), enchants )
Attribute and Champion point distribution
Food & potions ( possibly poisons depending on whether they decide to use them or not )

AND

Random factors i.e:
Player skill
Luck
Timing

So please tell me how your numbers can calculate what the other players skills are?

Say Sypher plays with his sorc and you are using a STAMDK or STAMBLADE, do you think you will win?

I bet you probably do, judging by your answer, the truth is you will die, like an infant being killed with a NUKE.

The point is you CANNOT calculate for certain what a situation will be like, different players also have different styles and different levels of experience. In all things in life there are random unaccountable factors that come into play in every aspect and there is nothing you can do to predetermine what those factors will be. You can only HONE your own skill and be confident in your ability.

That's what I am telling OP.

Sypher is a great example of a good sorc that can 1vX with a sorc even in the current meta. Where they are "so bad" , A tank and I did a bunch of vDungeons recently just the 2 of us. Come on mate you can't know the skill level of EVERY player in the game.

Just because something is easier and has slightly better damage for now doesn't mean everything else is obsolete.

People are still playing magNB's

When people were crying how bad Templar were a couple of months back I knew a German guy who could solo almost anything (including sewers molag circle) in a reasonable time ( same pace as groups ) these kind of people exist you do not know every player in the game mate.

So no while raw math is involved yes, it's not the only predetermining factor

olsborg

imo sorcs are still one of the best classes for 1v1 (small scale), they are just not that viable for solo open cyro imo, but neither is templar or dk.

Brrrofski

Yet to die in a one on one situation to a magica sorc yet since the patch last Tuesday. I'm eating them up on my stamplar and stamsorc.

Stam sorc is actually stronger than magica sorc now. Pretty funny.

I always found sorc boring in pvp anyway. It was my second toon to v16, but I usually kept it for pve. It's too repetitive for me.

holosoul

Duiwel wrote: »

Say Sypher plays with his sorc and you are using a STAMDK or STAMBLADE, do you think you will win?

Sypher is a great example of a good sorc that can 1vX with a sorc even in the current meta. Where they are "so bad"

That's cute, but he hasn't
He's "taking a break" from ESO for overwatch

coyteriarwb17_ESO

What needs to happen is vigor needs a 1 second cast time as well. If not then remove it from dark deal. They are the exact same abilities but you are punishing a Sorc for using dark deal.

psychotic13

coyteriarwb17_ESO wrote: »

What needs to happen is vigor needs a 1 second cast time as well. If not then remove it from dark deal. They are the exact same abilities but you are punishing a Sorc for using dark deal.

Are you high? How are they the exact same ability? One is a HoT and Heals allies, the other has a cast time and heals yourself while regaining resources.

Don't get me wrong, the cast time needs to be taken away for it to even be useable, but they are far from exactly the same.

X3ina

My 2cents about mSorcs PvE aspect
Even most of us are crying like a babies about nerfs, everything is almost the same as pre DB - mb its personal but lack of sustain or seems like they increased the magicka cost of the skills for me at least
Able to complete vMA without a resto staff and without ANY SHIELD with average score ~520k

PvP aspect
Not pvping with sorc atm but... randomly killing stamplars and stamblades in sewers while grinding some telvars (more like killing) dks still a trouble for me

Now i'm enlghtened with the idea of pvping with a sorc ... (in this patch) wish me some luck

LordSidious

I've been getting stomped out lately. Now I was never a prodigy or a greatly skilled player pre-patch, but when I died I at least put up a hell of a fight and had fun doing it. Now I'm getting knocked out by NBs and have a lucky chance of even trying to beat them. I haven't changed my skills or my armor since getting the patch since I really enjoyed my build, but there's no hope with what used to be a decently competitive build.

For an average player like me, this patch hit hard. I'm on console so the only tools I have to watch anything are the in-game indicators added in the previous patch.

WreckfulAbandon

They might not have gotten outright nerfed in DB (according to some), but vis-a-vis stamina builds in general, they got shafted.

Although the game is currently Elder Stamina Online, so I guess it fits the theme.

Tyrannitar

Autolycus wrote: »

Stam sorcs are in a really good place now. But of course, this is subjective and people will disagree. Survivability, damage output, and sustain is in a better place now than it has been historically.

If you're talking 1.5

Prior to this patch, sustain was in a WAYYYY better place & idek how you think survivability got a buff.

DPS got a slight buff from hurricane and implosion, but that's the ONLY thing out of the three you listed that's even marginally seen a buff.

Minalan

Brrrofski wrote: »

Yet to die in a one on one situation to a magica sorc yet since the patch last Tuesday. I'm eating them up on my stamplar and stamsorc.

Stam sorc is actually stronger than magica sorc now. Pretty funny.

I always found sorc boring in pvp anyway. It was my second toon to v16, but I usually kept it for pve. It's too repetitive for me.

Sorcs can't really win 1v1 versus any good Stam player than can count to five. It really is that broken.

Dixa

LordSidious wrote: »

I've been getting stomped out lately. Now I was never a prodigy or a greatly skilled player pre-patch, but when I died I at least put up a hell of a fight and had fun doing it. Now I'm getting knocked out by NBs and have a lucky chance of even trying to beat them. I haven't changed my skills or my armor since getting the patch since I really enjoyed my build, but there's no hope with what used to be a decently competitive build.

For an average player like me, this patch hit hard. I'm on console so the only tools I have to watch anything are the in-game indicators added in the previous patch.

pvp is a frustrating mess of one-two shots right now.

BlackMadara

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Stam sorcs are in a really good place now. But of course, this is subjective and people will disagree. Survivability, damage output, and sustain is in a better place now than it has been historically.

If you're talking 1.5

Prior to this patch, sustain was in a WAYYYY better place & idek how you think survivability got a buff.

DPS got a slight buff from hurricane and implosion, but that's the ONLY thing out of the three you listed that's even marginally seen a buff.

Damage - hurricane, implosion, passive with a flat increase of physical damage (the big one imo) dawnbreaker changes
Survivability - only thing I can think of is minor expedition on hurricane to stack with major on bow passive. Oh, dark exchange change has caused a few stam sorcs to use it.
Sustain - I guess dark exchange

bardx86

LordSidious wrote: »

I've been getting stomped out lately. Now I was never a prodigy or a greatly skilled player pre-patch, but when I died I at least put up a hell of a fight and had fun doing it. Now I'm getting knocked out by NBs and have a lucky chance of even trying to beat them. I haven't changed my skills or my armor since getting the patch since I really enjoyed my build, but there's no hope with what used to be a decently competitive build.

For an average player like me, this patch hit hard. I'm on console so the only tools I have to watch anything are the in-game indicators added in the previous patch.

Pretty accurate. I actually PVP'ed a lot and wasn't half bad if i do say so myself. I would get killed but it meant i normally got out played and had a blast fighting. This patch I can't even fight back and if i do win a fight i feel like i need a beer,smoke and a shower after.