Thank You, ZOS

CMz · May 2016

Thank you to all the ZOS team that set aside their holiday weekend plans and time with family & friends to address the issue of 3rd party software cheats. Time for a little love to flow your way; haters will always hate and are always the quickest to chirp. In this case, time to shout out to the team - thank you!

Nermy · May 2016

Agreed!

InvitationNotFound · May 2016

the issue hasn't been addressed properly yet.

read:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

According to this thread way more subtle cheating is going on and only ultimate spammers have been banned yet.

The question is how ZOS will continue on this:
a) we banned the cheaters and we are done (only obvious ulti spammers, speedhackers etc are banned)
b) they are going for the more subtle usage of cheats

Unfortunately, I doubt that they will choose b).

So no, I don't see a reason yet to praise ZOS at all.

Minno · May 2016

CMz wrote: »

Thank you to all the ZOS team that set aside their holiday weekend plans and time with family & friends to address the issue of 3rd party software cheats. Time for a little love to flow your way; haters will always hate and are always the quickest to chirp. In this case, time to shout out to the team - thank you!

I too would like to thank them for taking time out of a holiday to address the issues going into DB as a whole (remember its supposed to drop today.)

Hacking or not, I do hope ZOS has a massive bbq for the employees this Saturday to make up for scheduling a major update right after memorial day weekend.

Jim_Pipp · May 2016

CMz wrote: »

Thank you to all the ZOS team that set aside their holiday weekend plans and time with family & friends to address the issue of 3rd party software cheats. Time for a little love to flow your way; haters will always hate and are always the quickest to chirp. In this case, time to shout out to the team - thank you!

Brilliant thread - it sounds cheezy but after a weekend with the forums full of people expressing a lot of doubts about ZOS, your swift and decisive action has shown how unfairly underestimated you were. By working during a holiday weekend you have exceeded my expectations.

Given that there is an update coming out and E3 just around the corner I imagine thinks are pretty frenetic at ZOS HQ, but I hope everyone has time to pat themselves on the back for another job well done.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please pass on our appreciation to the team who worked this weekend.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

Yes thank you very much . Some of Us might not even be here to enjoy the update had it not been for your swift response . Thank you again .

rfennell_ESO · May 2016

CMz wrote: »

Thank you to all the ZOS team that set aside their holiday weekend plans and time with family & friends to address the issue of 3rd party software cheats. Time for a little love to flow your way; haters will always hate and are always the quickest to chirp. In this case, time to shout out to the team - thank you!

Totally agree.

I say Keep the Bans Going, get rid of the trash.

bitaken · May 2016

I am not yet satisfied with the extent of the investigations either.

Do you think it was not planned to make this all happen on a holiday weekend? Please, of course it was!

Reality: I recall hearing about and seeing people use the speed increase hack on many separate occasions way back when I played during early release and shortly after. I left the game due to lag. Not because I knew people were cheating, because if people cheat and beat me then so be it my integrity prevents me from feeling anything but sorry for those that have to cheat to win. If you cheat and beat me and then teabag me - hey I hope it made you feel better that day.

Current state: There needs to be real protection from cheating in the game. Problem is - this is not some super competitive ladder climbing system and player manipulation of various systems has been going on long enough to make certain achievements and accomplishments people push for truly not worth the time invested to make those achievements occur.

Emperor achieve being a major one. It used to be that it required a team of people working together to push one of their group above the rest and see them crowned emperor. Now, all it requires is a small group of people to decide to make their friend emp - and flip servers in the middle of the night after feeding AP and "dueling" near resources. Emp means nothing anymore aside from being a good manipulator - in MOST cases.

Until they find a real way to take their sandbox PvP and make it truly fair and unbiased towards manipulation - or unavailable to be manipulated - it's really only something you should do for fun and to hang out with friends - and to gain ranks for your own personal gain and satisfaction. However, with the current state of things taking any of this seriously as competitive.....sort of like following politics. A useless exercise in futility.

I would love for them to truly find all the cheaters - permaban the accounts and find a way to permanently end the cheating. Once they do that...maybe they can fix all the various methods players are using to manipulate the systems put in place.....and we can have a truly competitive Cyrodil - until then - I log in to hang out with my pals online and kill some baddies and enjoy free time.

However, believing that a few perma bans are going to somehow scare people off from using the program and cheating? Short sighted and nowhere near enough. Real damage control has to be done and I am not sure they have the wherewithal to complete what needs to be completed. I have hope they will, but no level of confidence at this point.

Oh yeah and @msawwan2ub17_ESO Miss you bud - always fun playing games with you - drop me a line on Discord sometime you lurker!

Publius_Scipio · May 2016

Myself and ALL THE BICEPS IN THE ESO COMMUNITY extend our thanks to all of ZOS.

You have all put in hard work and time and have created a good fun game. If I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't be logging in to play.

A special thanks and also an apology goes out to Mr. Wrobel and his entire team. I believe you always had the best intentions in mind and always were working towards the ultimate goal of game balance. A goal that in reality you could have never achieved because any changes you made the scum cheaters were changing their values up.

RinaldoGandolphi · May 2016

Agreed

ZOS Deserves some kudos for moving on starting to address this so quickly.Those that came in on this holliday to work on this deserve a cookout and some comp time. Thanks again!

Talcyndl · May 2016

Some kudos for the bans.

But the fact is that ZOS has known (or at least should have known) about the significant use of a certain third party cheat programs since shortly after launch. The infinite ultimate function of that program is only the silly and most obvious abuse of that program. The more subtle (and IMO abusive) of the program is apparently still possible.

Which means that although we may not see the rain of meteors and people floating up to walls, PvP (and PvE leaderboards) are still screwed.

_Chaos · May 2016

LOL

Okay so I have a Cadillac CTS.
GM forgets to put in the airbag sensor.
GM knows for a couple of years that they forgot to install the sensor.
It takes not only dozens of complaints, but thousands of serious injuries and deaths until they finally decide to do a recall.

Should I be thanking GM?

ZOSE, Go [SNIP] yourself.

Minno · May 2016

_Chaos wrote: »

LOL

Okay so I have a Cadillac CTS.
GM forgets to put in the airbag sensor.
GM knows for a couple of years that they forgot to install the sensor.
It takes not only dozens of complaints, but thousands of serious injuries and deaths until they finally decide to do a recall.

Should I be thanking GM?

ZOSE, Go [SNIP] yourself.

Except a computer game won't kill you if it's buggy, only your precious luxury free-time.

Jaywics · May 2016

Zos should just disallow all add ons on pc.....problem solved.

Jim_Pipp · May 2016

_Chaos wrote: »

...
It takes not only dozens of complaints, but thousands of serious injuries and deaths until they finally decide to do a recall.

Should I be thanking GM?

ZOSE, Go [SNIP] yourself.

Is that really the same thing?

Over the weekend there were forum posts saying that the servers should be brought down, there were posts saying the servers would be irreparably broken by the number of meteors, and there were posts saying that the in-game economy was destroyed. It's a little bit ridiculous.

All this over-reacting to a game we play for fun, can we not just acknowledge that a problem was addressed faster than anyone expected, and the only lasting consequence is the ZOS has sacrificed a few naughty customers for the benefit of the player-base as a whole.

_Chaos · May 2016

It seems some took my comment as if I was saying hacking in an MMO is on par with killing people, this is not the case. I'm comparing what it would be like if ZOS were to do this in an industry that had real consequences for poor management.

I shall make it blatantly obvious for you snowflakes.

The absolute worst case scenario for an automotive company would be having knowledge of a potentially lethal defect and taking no action against it until enough people complain.

In an MMO; having knowledge of an easily obtainable program that could enable flying around, unlimited resources & ultimate, and skew competitive leaderboards etc. is just as critical in that particular industry.

Talcyndl · May 2016

Jaywics wrote: »

Zos should just disallow all add ons on pc.....problem solved.

Huh?

Can't tell if you're serious.

flguy147ub17_ESO · May 2016

So now adults get thanked for working hard lol. What has this world come too? I worked my ass off all holiday weekend while being sick as hell. Its called being an adult, there are no holidays when you have a career you are focused on. Its sad that people think its such a great deed for adults having to work hard.

Minno · May 2016

_Chaos wrote: »

It seems some took my comment as if I was saying hacking in an MMO is on par with killing people, this is not the case. I'm comparing what it would be like if ZOS were to do this in an industry that had real consequences for poor management.

I shall make it blatantly obvious for you snowflakes.

The absolute worst case scenario for an automotive company would be having knowledge of a potentially lethal defect and taking no action against it until enough people complain.

In an MMO; having knowledge of an easily obtainable program that could enable flying around, unlimited resources & ultimate, and skew competitive leaderboards etc. is just as critical in that particular industry.

I think my post was telling you a car recall is not the same as a computer game that's buggy.

And if you want to still use that anology, the car companies only recall products when someone gets hurt and files a lawsuit. I'm pretty sure if the companies had their way, they would sell you a bad product just to make sales.

Some don't do that, but enough did for Ralph Nader to push for wide reforms related to consumer protections.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

How in Tamriel do you get mad at people for thanking someone ? Everyone here is a independent customer that can decide for themselves what they want or do not want to thank someone for .

You couldn't sound more salty getting upset at people being positive if you tried . That's as salty as it gets !

If you're not thankful cool . I'm not gonna jump in your bath water and splash around telling you that you should be .

_Chaos · May 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

How in Tamriel do you get mad at people for thanking someone ? Everyone here is a independent customer that can decide for themselves what they want or do not want to thank someone for .

You couldn't sound more salty getting upset at people being positive if you tried . That's as salty as it gets !

If you're not thankful cool . I'm not gonna jump in your bath water and splash around telling you that you should be .

It reinforces their poor management, it's patting people on the back for being awful at their job.
It's like giving students a passing grade even though they failed. It's like giving out trophies for losing.

It's like they've known about this issue for TWO WHOLE YEARS and didn't do anything about it until it was too late.

It's like watching someone drown and then throwing out the life jacket after it's too late.

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

Leandor · May 2016

Jaywics wrote: »

Zos should just disallow all add ons on pc.....problem solved.

This kind of troll post really gets boring by now.

SirKool · May 2016

Awesome and thanks for taking action. The impressive part is how you guys took action on a holiday. Reading a lot of the complaints still going on it would be nice if both sides consider this is a first step in right directions and let's hope Zenimax continues on this path.

Have to give credit where credit is due!!

Rohamad_Ali · May 2016

_Chaos wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

How in Tamriel do you get mad at people for thanking someone ? Everyone here is a independent customer that can decide for themselves what they want or do not want to thank someone for .

You couldn't sound more salty getting upset at people being positive if you tried . That's as salty as it gets !

If you're not thankful cool . I'm not gonna jump in your bath water and splash around telling you that you should be .

It reinforces their poor management, it's patting people on the back for being awful at their job.
It's like giving students a passing grade even though they failed. It's like giving out trophies for losing.

It's like they've known about this issue for TWO WHOLE YEARS and didn't do anything about it until it was too late.

It's like watching someone drown and then throwing out the life jacket after it's too late.

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

This is why I question everything . I don't take people's word for nothing . If it sounds weird , it probably is .

kevlarto_ESO · May 2016

Yep thanks for taking action on a Sunday and a memorial day weekend at that, I appreciate it, hope you keep the ban list going and a way to help avoid more of this in the future.

Crown · May 2016

Jules wrote:

A much more practical method would have been to contact zenimax or one of the people that communicate with them regularly, set up a meeting, take to the pts, record, and demonstrate to them the extents of the insanity what was possible without unleashing this havoc upon the entire community.

@Jules We did. Over a year ago. When that guy (that nobody is allowed to mention) would never die, took about 1% of the damage that he should have with 20+ people spamming damage on him for 3 minutes, and so many people claimed that "his build was OP" yet there was no possible way that much mitigation would be possible with any build.. Remember that guy? He stopped using that particular exploit when the memory obfuscation patch came out, changed toons, and started again about a month later because obfuscation was a quick fix that wasn't followed up upon and it was easy enough to bypass.

_Chaos wrote: »

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

@_Chaos We didn't go physically, though we talked about it with them. Many people from Netflix & Chill were there. I asked if I would be allowed to use my own account to demonstrate on stream or make a vid showing how it works and was told that I would be banned regardless of intent if I did so. I thus provided three videos of other people using it, a copy of the code (raw and compiled), with detailed explanations of how it was working. There was never any official response. I applaud Zazeer, who sacrificed his own account to make this public. Even though I'll probably never come back and play as I used to, I still love my character and wouldn't want to lose my account.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

Our confidence in ZOS went out the window long before that, but we still loved the game. Most of us still do, though won't even consider coming back to play unless things get a LOT better (notably lag in PvP).

Ajax_22 · May 2016

While I extremely dislike this forums moderation. I believe the mods are way to strict and inconsistent on what gets snipped or banned. I think Jessica and co handled this situation very well. However, the fact that it took this much blatant abuse for ZOS to even care about the cheating that has been going on for many months is very bad. I also think ZOS made a huge mistake by not having someone in a senior management position make a post this weekend. If I was in a management position at Zenimax Media inc, and found out all of this happened I would be livid that no one at ZOS management could take twenty minutes or so out of their day to make a single forum post. I think that reflects badly on ZOS as a company, and will look very bad when all of this hits the gaming news cycle.

KenaPKK · June 2016

"But it's ok for the company to have poor customer service and deliver a faulty product as long as their product doesn't kill people."

-____________________-

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

Crown wrote: »

Jules wrote:

A much more practical method would have been to contact zenimax or one of the people that communicate with them regularly, set up a meeting, take to the pts, record, and demonstrate to them the extents of the insanity what was possible without unleashing this havoc upon the entire community.

@Jules We did. Over a year ago. When that guy (that nobody is allowed to mention) would never die, took about 1% of the damage that he should have with 20+ people spamming damage on him for 3 minutes, and so many people claimed that "his build was OP" yet there was no possible way that much mitigation would be possible with any build.. Remember that guy? He stopped using that particular exploit when the memory obfuscation patch came out, changed toons, and started again about a month later because obfuscation was a quick fix that wasn't followed up upon and it was easy enough to bypass.

_Chaos wrote: »

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

@_Chaos We didn't go physically, though we talked about it with them. Many people from Netflix & Chill were there. I asked if I would be allowed to use my own account to demonstrate on stream or make a vid showing how it works and was told that I would be banned regardless of intent if I did so. I thus provided three videos of other people using it, a copy of the code (raw and compiled), with detailed explanations of how it was working. There was never any official response. I applaud Zazeer, who sacrificed his own account to make this public. Even though I'll probably never come back and play as I used to, I still love my character and wouldn't want to lose my account.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

Our confidence in ZOS went out the window long before that, but we still loved the game. Most of us still do, though won't even consider coming back to play unless things get a LOT better (notably lag in PvP).

Thank you for clearing it up and explaining . I appreciate that .

Vangy · June 2016

From what I understand here;

These hacks were happening for more than a year.... Reported by various players such as zazeer... Zos took no action?
Then people start to use it blatantly over the past week --> zos bans them.....

So.....

1. How about the subtle cheaters who get infinite regen or increased mitigation which can be hard to spot? Like you could wear full light/medium and wear a costume and set mitigation to cap. It would be impossible to spot and report?
2. Makes me wonder how many 1vXers ive seen are truly 1vXers......

All in all, my eyes have been opened and my faith has been shattered in ESO PvP...... Hopefully ZOS is able to catch all the subtle cheaters but from what ive read here so far.... this does not seem likely.

_Chaos · June 2016

@Crown My apologies, thanks for sharing that with us. A real eye opener to say the least.

Crown wrote: »

Jules wrote:

A much more practical method would have been to contact zenimax or one of the people that communicate with them regularly, set up a meeting, take to the pts, record, and demonstrate to them the extents of the insanity what was possible without unleashing this havoc upon the entire community.

@Jules We did. Over a year ago. When that guy (that nobody is allowed to mention) would never die, took about 1% of the damage that he should have with 20+ people spamming damage on him for 3 minutes, and so many people claimed that "his build was OP" yet there was no possible way that much mitigation would be possible with any build.. Remember that guy? He stopped using that particular exploit when the memory obfuscation patch came out, changed toons, and started again about a month later because obfuscation was a quick fix that wasn't followed up upon and it was easy enough to bypass.

_Chaos wrote: »

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

@_Chaos We didn't go physically, though we talked about it with them. Many people from Netflix & Chill were there. I asked if I would be allowed to use my own account to demonstrate on stream or make a vid showing how it works and was told that I would be banned regardless of intent if I did so. I thus provided three videos of other people using it, a copy of the code (raw and compiled), with detailed explanations of how it was working. There was never any official response. I applaud Zazeer, who sacrificed his own account to make this public. Even though I'll probably never come back and play as I used to, I still love my character and wouldn't want to lose my account.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

Our confidence in ZOS went out the window long before that, but we still loved the game. Most of us still do, though won't even consider coming back to play unless things get a LOT better (notably lag in PvP).

Thanks for clarifying Crown, much appreciated.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Did you have any knowledge at all that others within your building were aware of these exploits that were used in PVP? Someone needs to start putting pressure on these departments to have a quicker reaction time, I'm not sure who that is. @ZOS_MattFiror maybe? Was it resources? Was it the fact that it wasn't widely known? What's the reasoning behind the decision not to take immediate action?