Thank You, ZOS

God_flakes

Crown wrote: »

Jules wrote:

A much more practical method would have been to contact zenimax or one of the people that communicate with them regularly, set up a meeting, take to the pts, record, and demonstrate to them the extents of the insanity what was possible without unleashing this havoc upon the entire community.

@Jules We did. Over a year ago. When that guy (that nobody is allowed to mention) would never die, took about 1% of the damage that he should have with 20+ people spamming damage on him for 3 minutes, and so many people claimed that "his build was OP" yet there was no possible way that much mitigation would be possible with any build.. Remember that guy? He stopped using that particular exploit when the memory obfuscation patch came out, changed toons, and started again about a month later because obfuscation was a quick fix that wasn't followed up upon and it was easy enough to bypass.

_Chaos wrote: »

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

@_Chaos We didn't go physically, though we talked about it with them. Many people from Netflix & Chill were there. I asked if I would be allowed to use my own account to demonstrate on stream or make a vid showing how it works and was told that I would be banned regardless of intent if I did so. I thus provided three videos of other people using it, a copy of the code (raw and compiled), with detailed explanations of how it was working. There was never any official response. I applaud Zazeer, who sacrificed his own account to make this public. Even though I'll probably never come back and play as I used to, I still love my character and wouldn't want to lose my account.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

Our confidence in ZOS went out the window long before that, but we still loved the game. Most of us still do, though won't even consider coming back to play unless things get a LOT better (notably lag in PvP).

Crown, I remember when you did this and how hard you tried. Some people seem to have a short memory or weren't paying attention. I also applaud Zaz and Fengrush but sadly even what they did still isn't enough. I know many who are still using the CE and still playing (even some commenting here) and the first wave of bans is already being lifted. Such a joke.

Ishammael

Crown wrote: »

Jules wrote:

A much more practical method would have been to contact zenimax or one of the people that communicate with them regularly, set up a meeting, take to the pts, record, and demonstrate to them the extents of the insanity what was possible without unleashing this havoc upon the entire community.

@Jules We did. Over a year ago. When that guy (that nobody is allowed to mention) would never die, took about 1% of the damage that he should have with 20+ people spamming damage on him for 3 minutes, and so many people claimed that "his build was OP" yet there was no possible way that much mitigation would be possible with any build.. Remember that guy? He stopped using that particular exploit when the memory obfuscation patch came out, changed toons, and started again about a month later because obfuscation was a quick fix that wasn't followed up upon and it was easy enough to bypass.

_Chaos wrote: »

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

@_Chaos We didn't go physically, though we talked about it with them. Many people from Netflix & Chill were there. I asked if I would be allowed to use my own account to demonstrate on stream or make a vid showing how it works and was told that I would be banned regardless of intent if I did so. I thus provided three videos of other people using it, a copy of the code (raw and compiled), with detailed explanations of how it was working. There was never any official response. I applaud Zazeer, who sacrificed his own account to make this public. Even though I'll probably never come back and play as I used to, I still love my character and wouldn't want to lose my account.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

Our confidence in ZOS went out the window long before that, but we still loved the game. Most of us still do, though won't even consider coming back to play unless things get a LOT better (notably lag in PvP).

This is certainly interesting information. Thanks for sharing @Crown . I better appreciate the "why" of Zazeer's actions.

Regardless, it is not justification for them. He ruined an entire weekend of PvP. The toxic aftermath of everyone accusing each other of hacking is just beginning. Players in my guilds were banned after false accusations (they have since been reinstated) -- and we booted the ones who were actually cheating. People need to be accountable for their own actions.

At the end of the day ZoS needs to recognize that their vested interest is to police the game for cheaters and exploiters much more rigorously. ESO PvP was barely healthy to begin with. TG was probably the worst balance patch since 1.0.

Minno

Crown wrote: »

Jules wrote:

A much more practical method would have been to contact zenimax or one of the people that communicate with them regularly, set up a meeting, take to the pts, record, and demonstrate to them the extents of the insanity what was possible without unleashing this havoc upon the entire community.

@Jules We did. Over a year ago. When that guy (that nobody is allowed to mention) would never die, took about 1% of the damage that he should have with 20+ people spamming damage on him for 3 minutes, and so many people claimed that "his build was OP" yet there was no possible way that much mitigation would be possible with any build.. Remember that guy? He stopped using that particular exploit when the memory obfuscation patch came out, changed toons, and started again about a month later because obfuscation was a quick fix that wasn't followed up upon and it was easy enough to bypass.

_Chaos wrote: »

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

@_Chaos We didn't go physically, though we talked about it with them. Many people from Netflix & Chill were there. I asked if I would be allowed to use my own account to demonstrate on stream or make a vid showing how it works and was told that I would be banned regardless of intent if I did so. I thus provided three videos of other people using it, a copy of the code (raw and compiled), with detailed explanations of how it was working. There was never any official response. I applaud Zazeer, who sacrificed his own account to make this public. Even though I'll probably never come back and play as I used to, I still love my character and wouldn't want to lose my account.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

Our confidence in ZOS went out the window long before that, but we still loved the game. Most of us still do, though won't even consider coming back to play unless things get a LOT better (notably lag in PvP).

Damn zOS.

Thanks for confirming the information drop.
I didn't want to believe chaos' comment because I didn't think you would spend money on airfare travel to visit a games studio lol.

Heat is off Zazeer from my end. Though I'm still wondering why drop this now instead of then or a couple months ago. So many patches released making people think we had to work for certain builds. So much time passed that now many of us are doubting many players.

It's still a sour taste, but at least mostly on ZOS now.

Minno

_Chaos wrote: »

@Crown My apologies, thanks for sharing that with us. A real eye opener to say the least.

Crown wrote: »

Jules wrote:

A much more practical method would have been to contact zenimax or one of the people that communicate with them regularly, set up a meeting, take to the pts, record, and demonstrate to them the extents of the insanity what was possible without unleashing this havoc upon the entire community.

@Jules We did. Over a year ago. When that guy (that nobody is allowed to mention) would never die, took about 1% of the damage that he should have with 20+ people spamming damage on him for 3 minutes, and so many people claimed that "his build was OP" yet there was no possible way that much mitigation would be possible with any build.. Remember that guy? He stopped using that particular exploit when the memory obfuscation patch came out, changed toons, and started again about a month later because obfuscation was a quick fix that wasn't followed up upon and it was easy enough to bypass.

_Chaos wrote: »

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

@_Chaos We didn't go physically, though we talked about it with them. Many people from Netflix & Chill were there. I asked if I would be allowed to use my own account to demonstrate on stream or make a vid showing how it works and was told that I would be banned regardless of intent if I did so. I thus provided three videos of other people using it, a copy of the code (raw and compiled), with detailed explanations of how it was working. There was never any official response. I applaud Zazeer, who sacrificed his own account to make this public. Even though I'll probably never come back and play as I used to, I still love my character and wouldn't want to lose my account.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

Our confidence in ZOS went out the window long before that, but we still loved the game. Most of us still do, though won't even consider coming back to play unless things get a LOT better (notably lag in PvP).

Thanks for clarifying Crown, much appreciated.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Did you have any knowledge at all that others within your building were aware of these exploits that were used in PVP? Someone needs to start putting pressure on these departments to have a quicker reaction time, I'm not sure who that is. @ZOS_MattFiror maybe? Was it resources? Was it the fact that it wasn't widely known? What's the reasoning behind the decision not to take immediate action?

This is on @ZOS_MattFiror, not Brian. Only executive ineptitude could let such an exploit pass through the filters.

God_flakes

Ishammael wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Jules wrote:

A much more practical method would have been to contact zenimax or one of the people that communicate with them regularly, set up a meeting, take to the pts, record, and demonstrate to them the extents of the insanity what was possible without unleashing this havoc upon the entire community.

@Jules We did. Over a year ago. When that guy (that nobody is allowed to mention) would never die, took about 1% of the damage that he should have with 20+ people spamming damage on him for 3 minutes, and so many people claimed that "his build was OP" yet there was no possible way that much mitigation would be possible with any build.. Remember that guy? He stopped using that particular exploit when the memory obfuscation patch came out, changed toons, and started again about a month later because obfuscation was a quick fix that wasn't followed up upon and it was easy enough to bypass.

_Chaos wrote: »

For those that don't know, @Crown and some others literally went to ZOS HQ and demonstrated exactly how to do this in Feb 2015 and they did nothing about it.

@_Chaos We didn't go physically, though we talked about it with them. Many people from Netflix & Chill were there. I asked if I would be allowed to use my own account to demonstrate on stream or make a vid showing how it works and was told that I would be banned regardless of intent if I did so. I thus provided three videos of other people using it, a copy of the code (raw and compiled), with detailed explanations of how it was working. There was never any official response. I applaud Zazeer, who sacrificed his own account to make this public. Even though I'll probably never come back and play as I used to, I still love my character and wouldn't want to lose my account.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

If you guys knew about it in 2015 , reported it in person , got no response , the real question is Why didn't you leave then ? Certainly your confidence in the game must of went out the window that day right ?

Our confidence in ZOS went out the window long before that, but we still loved the game. Most of us still do, though won't even consider coming back to play unless things get a LOT better (notably lag in PvP).

This is certainly interesting information. Thanks for sharing @Crown . I better appreciate the "why" of Zazeer's actions.

Regardless, it is not justification for them. He ruined an entire weekend of PvP. The toxic aftermath of everyone accusing each other of hacking is just beginning. Players in my guilds were banned after false accusations (they have since been reinstated) -- and we booted the ones who were actually cheating. People need to be accountable for their own actions.

At the end of the day ZoS needs to recognize that their vested interest is to police the game for cheaters and exploiters much more rigorously. ESO PvP was barely healthy to begin with. TG was probably the worst balance patch since 1.0.

Booted the ones who were actually cheating? How did you come to find out they were? Have to handed their account info over to Zos? Who in your guild was cheating, Ish????

CMz

Those who exploited via CE just didn't start on the weekend past; they have been doing it for months. Rewriting history to recast your past vices as a virtuous acts is self-serving and duplicitous; it does buy a pass from me. The TOS are simple and clear around using exploits. Permanent ban; nothing less; then wipe their names from the history of Tamriel. IMO

kevlarto_ESO

All I know since the Cheat Engine came to light, there a lot of players that we thought were good now fold like an average player, they played so long with the CE, regen cranked up, they need to l2p again, and it is like night and day in Cyrodiil now, I have to say I am very disappointed that so many players resorted to using a cheat, to play a game. I hope ZOS gets rid of the cheaters, and it is up to the security department to do this, they need to keep on top of today's cheats and make sure they are being detected.

zyk

The methods used to cheat in ESO are not new. Every professional game developer is extremely aware of them. Including those at ZOS.

This did not need to be brought to the attention of ZOS leadership because they were already well aware. They made the decision to launch ESO without countermeasures to cheating.

This is what our community must understand very clearly. This situation isn't the result of mistakes, it is the result of a decisions.

Not only did ZOS decide not to protect ESO and its customers from easy cheating, ZOS made extremely poor design decisions that make it far easier and effective to cheat in ESO than it needs to be.

God_flakes

zyk wrote: »

The methods used to cheat in ESO are not new. Every professional game developer is extremely aware of them. Including those at ZOS.

This did not need to be brought to the attention of ZOS leadership because they were already well aware. They made the decision to launch ESO without countermeasures to cheating.

This is what our community must understand very clearly. This situation isn't the result of mistakes, it is the result of a decisions.

Not only did ZOS decide not to protect ESO and its customers from easy cheating, ZOS made extremely poor design decisions that make it far easier and effective to cheat in ESO than it needs to be.

I think we all realize Zos knew about this. The fact is a lot of us players didn't realize how deep the rabbit hole went with this cheat engine. Thanks to Zaz and Fengrush now we know. I'm grateful for that.