This...

Deadfinger6 · March 2016

Awh...God, I can only watch 2mins of this....when did everyone become Whiney Neo-developers with a need to slate any thing that they percieve isn't the way the game should be.

I_killed_Vivec · March 2016

Ariisen wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Ariisen wrote: »

The community has been very vocal about what they want regarding PvP and PvE, and it wasn't heists and a new quest line.

I'd say this comment right here would be a case of suffering from confirmation bias.

Everyone I come across loves the Thieves Guild DLC. That's just my experience though, and I talk to a lot of different people.

I'm not saying it's bad, t's probably fun and a good addition but how long will it keep core players in the game?
Would you\they still want it if instead you could get: the vet versions of some old dungeons, the scaling of old trials and vDSA, an auction house, changing some BoP gear in BoE, removal of undesiderable traits from BoP gear, removal of AoE caps, a 1v1 or 4v4 PvP arena or, at least some of this things?

That's what the community wants and has been asking for months already without success.

Some of the community wants that; some of the community has been asking for it. But probably not that much when seen as a proportion of the player base as a whole.

I'm sure that ZoS know their player base far, far, far better than you or I, and they are making commercial decisions accordingly. And they say that TG is what people want because, as with Dark Brotherhood, it's a standard part of any ES game. We know that IC didn't sell well but Wrothgar was a success - when it comes to sales it would appear that solo quest-based material is most popular.

Personally I'd prefer them to spend time and effort fixing bugs rather than producing an endless stream of vanity items. The clue is in the name - they are for the vain...

However, as much as paying for a horse with fiery hooves seems like a foolish waste of money to me, apparently they are quite popular - and do their bit paying to keep the servers running.

Some PvPers might really, really, really need the removal of AoE caps (I'm not sure all who play PvP are aware of all of the issues), but ZoS have obviously decided that they'd rather work on polar bear cub "pets".

Unfortunately, cos finances, they are probably right.

Mojmir · March 2016

Bottom line, they weren't listeni

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Awh...God, I can only watch 2mins of this....when did everyone become Whiney Neo-developers with a need to slate any thing that they percieve isn't the way the game should be.

hes not saying anything that hasn't been said before, making a video doesn't make the point any stronger. bottom line: things will continue they way they've been going.

Lysette wrote: »

.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why PVE players get so mad when we PVP players want something good to happen in PVP? I mean it doesn't affect you, so why get so worked up about it.

Look into how many of the complainers phrase their complaints. If they are complaining about so-called "casual", you have your answer.

Also, we need to keep our voices heard because we don't start many complaint threads. It is important to be heard so that ZOS knows that a large number of people like where the game is going and thought TG was a great addition (though with mixed opinions on topless NPCs and purple/pink critters.)

Indeed and we are critical as well, but in a constructive way - like with the overdone thief troves - well it was not working like intended, so they fixed it - some of you call this a nerf, but that is what constructive criticism is like - you make your points and state how you think it could be made better - that's all what it is about - the Devs will then decide, if they agree and they might fix it or if they have another idea about it and let it how it is - in the end it is their game, we can help to shape it a little and point out flaws, but in the end they decide, ESO is not a democracy, where you could vote - the only way you can vote is with your money - just go and buy ZOS from Zenimax, then the game will go 100% in your way - otherwise you will have to play what you get - or leave.

this so called nerf actually made things worse for everyone else, the prices for the dropped sets just went up. I didn't want the troves changed, either way I profited. it isn't just about what you ask for with ZOS, its about the repercussions. this is one thing fengrush didn't mention in his video, but definitely ties in.

melodeath · March 2016

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Awh...God, I can only watch 2mins of this....when did everyone become Whiney Neo-developers with a need to slate any thing that they percieve isn't the way the game should be.

go look at all the advertising that was made for this game and than go ahead and watch all the eso live's.

i dont care if you're a pve guy with 0 intrest in pvp. but alot of people actually did buy this game just for the pvp (look at eso advertisement)

those same people have now spend almost 2 years building and improving their characters whilst also paying this company a monthly fee (not neccasery atm..i know)

than the company breaks the content that we were intrested in and spend alot of time in while they keep promising that they are going to fix it.

1 year later.. and it just gets worse by the day.. and you people expect others that play content that you're not intrested in to just bend over and accept that we got screwed for more than a year ?

the only reason i kept logging on all these months was because i hoped that pvp would be more playable/balanced and ALOT less buggy.. i even kept paying my sub.

this last patch didnt do anything to the major concerns alot of pvpers have and i believe that its completely acceptable to say that they dont care whatsoever.

Molag_Crow · March 2016

I've been on a break from ESO for a few weeks, waiting for Thieves Guild, and I'm not entirely excited but there's that.

All the people who're disagreeing with Fengrush/most of his valid points, must be delusional! Sure, you may be pretty happy doing whatever you're currently doing in ESO, but sooner or later you'll come to the realization that most of us have already come to, and then maybe Fengrush's words will repeat in your head.

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

Malmai wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

Listen

"Listen", or agree and kowtow?

We dont need KowTow they need to FIX stuff and LAG !

Lag is nowhere near the top of my list of things to do in the game. I agree that it sucks that it is there and that their PvP design is failing, but the game might just have to further emphasize its identity as an MMORPG (that has some PvP). It is nice to have PvP there for a change of pace now an then, but I can understand decisions to not make it a priority. When I go into PvP and lag gets crazy, I mostly just chuckle.

Arenas might be good for the game technically since it would be some of the easiest game zones to code and maintain and it could entertain people looking for that -- so long as ZOS ignores arena balancing complaints.

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

me_ming wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

dennischizophrenia wrote: »

ZOS keeps pushing their loyal players further and further away - that's a fact and Feng, well he's right. And after everything we dealt with a rant seems more than acceptable. :P

I wish the game would push more of these guys FURTHER out of the game! The PvP-centric people are the most toxic I've seen in gaming, and the more that leave the better IMO. Hate to break it to you, but this game IS NOT dominated by PvP players- although I know most of you want to convince yourself differently. For your information, this game is dominated by PvE solo-centric players and that is basically how the game was designed. Also, if Matt Firor even comes out and states that this game is more of a RPG than traditional MMO, then that should answer your question about how PvP fits into ESO.

While ZOS does have its fair share of problems, I'm still absolutely loving the game and I've been playing constantly for almost a year now. No, I don't PvP, I am one of the numerous solo-centric PvE players that you normally don't notice because I am too busy doing my own thing and enjoying the game. For those who think that ESO is 'losing players'- they're only losing the kind of players that you associate with... but the overall health of the game is just fine. Example... yesterday afternoon- a MONDAY afternoon- I started a new character and was annoyed because of the sheer number of players in the Wailing Prison, took me forever to reach level six because of how many players kept killing everything so quickly. Doing the Khenarthi's Roost and Auridon quests... same thing... players everywhere. So how can a game that is supposedly 'dying' be so constantly filled on a weekday afternoon with new players?!?

Wait 'til you get to end game, and learn that there really isn't much worth doing anymore.

I doubt that is an issue for most players now that there is regular DLC.

LiquidSchwartz · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like how people throw around the term "casual" like its an insult. Pretty sure you are supposed to PLAY games casually and not make it your life's work. For many of us casuals we have lots of real life obligations. We might not play as much as these supposed hardcore people but our money spends the same. By definition casuals are the majority of people paying for and playing this game.

I wear it as a term of pride.

It's not an insult but more like yin and yang
Casuals are not what mmos are made for they take tons of hours and dedication but the way they are putting this game into motion isn't like an mmo that caters to having a thriving endgame for hardcore players and casuals alike but just catering to casuals leaving that hardcore segment in the toilet and giving more and more to casuals who will just quit when the content is finished or leave until the next dlc
That's not how you make a game last or make money

ben_ESO5 · March 2016

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Awh...God, I can only watch 2mins of this....when did everyone become Whiney Neo-developers with a need to slate any thing that they percieve isn't the way the game should be.

Yup, I suffered through the vast majority of it. Out of 30 minutes there were a few decent points, wrapped in what seemed to be about 28 minutes of a "listen to me!" cry for attention, and constant repetition that Zen doesn't take their marching orders from him and other vocal "top" players.

Granted, the game has it's issues, and definitely needs help in areas, but I would never guide my company upon the childish narcissistic vulgarity that is most of his rant -- and because of that, what good points are made, are reduced to little to no value.

Muizer · March 2016

For those PvE players who blame PvP for

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

Thanks for countering Feng's set of sweeping generalisations and baseless assumptions with another set

. That's what the game needs too: balance!

Mojmir · March 2016

melodeath wrote: »

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Awh...God, I can only watch 2mins of this....when did everyone become Whiney Neo-developers with a need to slate any thing that they percieve isn't the way the game should be.

go look at all the advertising that was made for this game and than go ahead and watch all the eso live's.

i dont care if you're a pve guy with 0 intrest in pvp. but alot of people actually did buy this game just for the pvp (look at eso advertisement)
those same people have now spend almost 2 years building and improving their characters whilst also paying this company a monthly fee (not neccasery atm..i know)
than the company breaks the content that we were intrested and spend alot of time in and kept on promising that they will fix it.
1 year later.. and it just gets worse by the day.. and you people expect others that play content that you're not part of to just bend over and accept that we got screwed for more than a year ?

the ads sucked me in as well, but honestly, when was there ever truth in advertising? if this isn't your first MMO, your expectations should be lower than the hype. everyone forgets this is the first venture in online gaming for this title. it also had HUGE expectations. by no means am I white-knighting this(read most of my comments throughout the forums),but pvp/pve mix is always a oil/water combo for development. when all is said in done, only one side is going to win this, its not what I would want, but its going to happen, history repeats itself all too often.

Morbash · March 2016

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Morbash wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Sorry, I'm confused. Was that supposed to be a review of Thieve's Guild? Seemed more like the foul-mouthed rantings of a disgruntled streamer to me.

Sorry, I'm confused. Was your post supposed to add something of value to the discussion? If you can't handle coarse language, then please take your prudish bait post elsewhere. Feel free to come back and contribute to the discussion when you're wearing your big boy pants.

LOL. It's called sarcasm. And yes, his "Thieve's Guild review" was nothing more than a profanity-laced tirade that lacked both coherence and constructive criticism.

Sure, his review did consist of a fair share of profanity. I'll give you that. However, just because profanities were used, that doesn't mean the video lacked coherency or constructive criticism. The criticism Fengrush offers is colorfully constructive, and he makes many valid points.

Have you tried filtering the language and listening to the points made in the video? I'm going to assume "no" considering we've yet to move past "Gasp! That man said some bad, bad words. He's a very baaaad man; therefore, his opinions on ESO do not matter."

I can personally pick out plenty of sound arguments that Fengrush makes, and Fengrush's inclusion of profanities does not impact my ability to do so. See...watch this...

Some key points from Fengrush's Thieves Guild review:

1. Balance has shifted in the favor of Magicka based builds since TG released. This is mainly due to changes with CP, Proximity Detonation, and the addition of sets such as Vicious Death. Not only that, but stamina builds did not receive any noteworthy changes to their skill sets. For example, with the exception of stamina DKs and their dragon leap, stamina builds do not have ultimates that scale off of physical damage.

2. ZOS did not scale old content and gear to max level. This makes the old content and gear obsolete. Why not make old content and gear scale to max level? It'll add variety alongside new content such as Thieves Guild.

3. Performance in Cyrodiil is still extremely lackluster. Why? Because AOE caps cause ball groups. People form ball groups because they know it's safe. There's an inherent advantage to stacking numbers on top of each other. AOE caps basically serve as an artificial shield. The more numbers you have, the less damage you take. And currently, the only way to effectively combat ball groups is to bring in a ball group of your own. When these ball groups clash for hours on end and constantly spam AOEs, this becomes the root of the lag and performance issues we experience in Cyrodiil each and everyday.

See? Not that hard to pick out some of the points Fengrush made in his video despite his crude way of communicating. And even though he uses profane speech, his arguments are still plausible and comprehensible.

People are WAAAY too caught up in how the message was delivered rather than the actual message itself.

gamerguy757 · March 2016

@andypappb16_ESO I clicked on it and it turned yellow. It either turns yellow or clear. I keep getting notifications.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_CoriJ How can I stop notifications for specific threads?

ShedsHisTail · March 2016

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Awh...God, I can only watch 2mins of this....when did everyone become Whiney Neo-developers with a need to slate any thing that they percieve isn't the way the game should be.

Right? I watched like 3 minutes and all I could think was... "Is he going to whine the whole time?"

Xendyn · March 2016

gamerguy757 wrote: »

@andypappb16_ESO I clicked on it and it turned yellow. It either turns yellow or clear. I keep getting notifications.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_CoriJ How can I stop notifications for specific threads?

All you can do is go into your Notifications and uncheck the box for "receive notifications for discussions I've participated in"

I think that'll do it.
Maybe.

babylon · March 2016

gamerguy757 wrote: »

@andypappb16_ESO I clicked on it and it turned yellow. It either turns yellow or clear. I keep getting notifications.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_CoriJ How can I stop notifications for specific threads?

You can't - you have to turn that tickbox off for ALL threads people post in. Or change it so you just get a popup box rather than an email notification. Again this will affect all threads, no way to control individual threads except by making it so you get emails only on threads you FOLLOW (puts a star on the thread), and regular threads like this where you simply made a comment just turn off email notifications.

You need to "edit your profile" to get to these settings (then change for "notifications").

@gamerguy757

__________________________

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like how people throw around the term "casual" like its an insult. Pretty sure you are supposed to PLAY games casually and not make it your life's work. For many of us casuals we have lots of real life obligations. We might not play as much as these supposed hardcore people but our money spends the same. By definition casuals are the majority of people paying for and playing this game.

I wear it as a term of pride.

It's not an insult but more like yin and yang
Casuals are not what mmos are made for they take tons of hours and dedication but the way they are putting this game into motion isn't like an mmo that caters to having a thriving endgame for hardcore players and casuals alike but just catering to casuals leaving that hardcore segment in the toilet and giving more and more to casuals who will just quit when the content is finished or leave until the next dlc
That's not how you make a game last or make money

MMOs are made to make money. They don't have to be made for hardcore or casual players. They just need a profitable business model.

The value in 'hardcore' is that they will stick around doing the same thing over and over again, potentially keeping your game active and potentially throwing a lot of money at your game depending on how the game monetizes that. That doesn't mean that an MMO needs to cater to 'endgame' or to the 'hardcore' people who love endgame. It depends upon their business model.

There are also different kinds of 'hardcore' players. There are people who spend all day in Cyrodiil. There are people who complete group dungeons on all their characters. There are people who play economy simulator.

If ZOS thinks ESO can be profitable by being DLC sales based, they might cater to people who focus on narrative and lore. What is quite naive about the 'casual' label is that actually listening to dialog and reading books in game takes a major time investment. These people could spend as much time in-game as the 'hardcore' player. A casual like me will also spend time in Cyrodiil or IC if I feel like handing with one of my guilds (or if I want to unlock a skill). I spend those same 'tons of hours' in game, but I'm not sure that I would fit the 'hardcore' definition some put forth.

Sometime success is not about following the formula everyone else follows. Sometimes it is about finding your own niche.

Lysette · March 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

You have it so backwards sometimes.

Lysette wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.

Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.

He has said so many things, and constantly changes their agenda when they realize they can't accomplish anything. This is no different then stating their "MMO" is different than traditional MMOs. How so Matt/Lysette? Different because you're designing a single player experience but charging cash shop items that mimic an MMO?

Different as in "having no end game" - you guys are just not getting it - there is no end game and never will be - you might get an arena - another hamster cage for you to run in for a little while longer - but in fact ESO is a role playing game, an online version of an Elder Scrolls RPG - in that it is not a typical MMO. That ESO still has this hamster cage in Cyrrodil is just because it is still making some extra cash - if it will do that no longer, it might cease to be a PvP zone, who can say that now - you guys say, you will eventually leave, and think that is a threat - it is not, they might wait for you to actually do it. They cannot kick you out because you have paid for the game and are customers, but you are not the desired kind of customer, that's for certain. The whole game development is showing this.

The problem is, the Dev team hints at going in a certain direction (usually to appeal to both PvE & PvP) but then they go in a completely different direction without any discussion with the players that play their game...

Did it ever come to your mind, that ZOS has the data - they can actually see, where most players are and what they are doing most of the time - if it would be pvp, then they would cater for this more - but as it seems, it is not pvp, despite that this kind of people cry the loudest in the forum - in actual numbers they just seem to be insignificant, not worth the hassle. They are still providing some income, so you pvp guys will get some bread crumbs from time to time, but that's it. Otherwise it is an online role playing game based on the PvE and role play crowd - because, you might not believe it, they are the majority and they will stick with the game and not bail out for the next big hype, like you guys will do - bail and invade the next thing like a swarm of locusts, make people there miserable with your poison until it will be time for the locusts to bail and swarm to the next hype - and you think, you guys are preferred customers?- Now, get real.

They are trying to make the game better -_- And I am willing to bet that there was once more people playing pvp than pve, but ZOS every update does something that pushes PVP players away.

Sigh - you guys really do not get what Elder Scrolls is all about - do you? - it was never meant to be what you think it would be. Never, simply because this would p*ss off the fan base of TES. It was never meant to be a PvP-centric game, never, but Elder Scrolls with friends. Basically that what they now clearly state - an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG - that is what it is.

Why do you continue to make this up? Elder Scrolls is beyond being labeled as a PvE or PvP game.

It is a story and that story can be told in either PvP or PvE.

Lysette wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

I just now realized that the majority of people left are skyrim players. Well I have something for you. This isn't that type of game. Now don't get me wrong I absolutely loved skyrim, but ESO isn't skyrim. So there should be good pvp and things to do at end game. It shouldn't just be an RP quester game. It's an MMO!

Mr. Firor is not of your opinion - and he is in the lead - so guess what will happen and who is right.

Now you speak for Matt Firor? Have you not noticed how he has back tracked on a lot of his promises to the game? Do you think he back tracked because they don't know how to fix their own game?

You know Matt Firor background is DAoC. A RvRvR MMORPG.

Regardless what his background might be, he got what TES is about - and that ESO should not be a pvp-centric game but an online version of the Elder Scrolls RPG - that he stated this clearly lately, made me very happy - because there is hope, that PvP will disappear at some point in time with all their demands, which are so contrary to what RPG game play is like. PvP want shapeless "balanced" game play, where all is basically the same and have the same abilities with different names - that is not what role play is like. A role player takes on a character as it is, he is not re-rolling just because the game play is changing, because he feels an attachment to his/her character, is developing the role of his/her character, accepts strengths and weaknesses and goes for the fun of playing the role, instead to be a number crunching min/max player. Role play seeks diversity, not uniformity like pvp. These 2 play styles do not go well together - they are too different.

Edit. and I am not making this up - this is what Mr. Firor said lately in an interview:

After PC launch, and especially leading up to console launch mid-last year, we have done a great job setting customer expectations about what ESO is, and now that it has become so popular, I don’t think we run into anyone thinking the game is Skyrim 2. Our bigger challenge has been to educate players that we are not a traditional 2004-style MMO and much more an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG.

RedRoomGaming · March 2016

172 notifications, this is going to be a long damn read.

I_killed_Vivec · March 2016

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like how people throw around the term "casual" like its an insult. Pretty sure you are supposed to PLAY games casually and not make it your life's work. For many of us casuals we have lots of real life obligations. We might not play as much as these supposed hardcore people but our money spends the same. By definition casuals are the majority of people paying for and playing this game.

I wear it as a term of pride.

It's not an insult but more like yin and yang
Casuals are not what mmos are made for they take tons of hours and dedication but the way they are putting this game into motion isn't like an mmo that caters to having a thriving endgame for hardcore players and casuals alike but just catering to casuals leaving that hardcore segment in the toilet and giving more and more to casuals who will just quit when the content is finished or leave until the next dlc
That's not how you make a game last or make money

Really?

A lot of "casuals" have more loyalty to this game than some of the "hardcore" players - particularly those, even in this thread, who are threatening to leave.

As I said above, I'm sure ZoS have a much better idea of who is really paying the bills - I suspect it isn't the hardcode PvPer who sits in Cyrodiil and doesn't need to sub, but rather the greater numbers of ponderous casual players slowly working their way through DLC, buying costumes and pets.

GazettE · March 2016

Well after all, the only thing i couldnt agree more is the bug issues. Whats the point of testing the new patch in PTS but when it goes live there is a lot of different bugs going on. I mean how could this happen? Whats the point of PTS?

Mojmir · March 2016

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like how people throw around the term "casual" like its an insult. Pretty sure you are supposed to PLAY games casually and not make it your life's work. For many of us casuals we have lots of real life obligations. We might not play as much as these supposed hardcore people but our money spends the same. By definition casuals are the majority of people paying for and playing this game.

I wear it as a term of pride.

It's not an insult but more like yin and yang
Casuals are not what mmos are made for they take tons of hours and dedication but the way they are putting this game into motion isn't like an mmo that caters to having a thriving endgame for hardcore players and casuals alike but just catering to casuals leaving that hardcore segment in the toilet and giving more and more to casuals who will just quit when the content is finished or leave until the next dlc
That's not how you make a game last or make money

Really?

A lot of "casuals" have more loyalty to this game than some of the "hardcore" players - particularly those, even in this thread, who are threatening to leave.

As I said above, I'm sure ZoS have a much better idea of who is really paying the bills - I suspect it isn't the hardcode PvPer who sits in Cyrodiil and doesn't need to sub, but rather the greater numbers of ponderous casual players slowly working their way through DLC, buying costumes and pets.

im sure the casuals are playing the game right now too, and not on the forums fighting.

Lysette · March 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Bottom line, they weren't listeni

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Awh...God, I can only watch 2mins of this....when did everyone become Whiney Neo-developers with a need to slate any thing that they percieve isn't the way the game should be.

hes not saying anything that hasn't been said before, making a video doesn't make the point any stronger. bottom line: things will continue they way they've been going.

Lysette wrote: »

.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why PVE players get so mad when we PVP players want something good to happen in PVP? I mean it doesn't affect you, so why get so worked up about it.

Look into how many of the complainers phrase their complaints. If they are complaining about so-called "casual", you have your answer.

Also, we need to keep our voices heard because we don't start many complaint threads. It is important to be heard so that ZOS knows that a large number of people like where the game is going and thought TG was a great addition (though with mixed opinions on topless NPCs and purple/pink critters.)

Indeed and we are critical as well, but in a constructive way - like with the overdone thief troves - well it was not working like intended, so they fixed it - some of you call this a nerf, but that is what constructive criticism is like - you make your points and state how you think it could be made better - that's all what it is about - the Devs will then decide, if they agree and they might fix it or if they have another idea about it and let it how it is - in the end it is their game, we can help to shape it a little and point out flaws, but in the end they decide, ESO is not a democracy, where you could vote - the only way you can vote is with your money - just go and buy ZOS from Zenimax, then the game will go 100% in your way - otherwise you will have to play what you get - or leave.

this so called nerf actually made things worse for everyone else, the prices for the dropped sets just went up. I didn't want the troves changed, either way I profited. it isn't just about what you ask for with ZOS, its about the repercussions. this is one thing fengrush didn't mention in his video, but definitely ties in.

Well I did want them changed, because they felt just wrong - and how it turned out it was a bug and they fixed it. I do not judge the game after what is good for me or not, but what I think is good for the game and the game play overall. I did not even use this exploit - and knowing about a bug and taking advantage of it is an exploit. It just felt wrong, when I can stay in a 30m circle and open one of the 2 troves there every 30 seconds - this was just horrible - and of course it turned out to be a bug.

rotaugen454 · March 2016

Morbash wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Morbash wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Sorry, I'm confused. Was that supposed to be a review of Thieve's Guild? Seemed more like the foul-mouthed rantings of a disgruntled streamer to me.

Sorry, I'm confused. Was your post supposed to add something of value to the discussion? If you can't handle coarse language, then please take your prudish bait post elsewhere. Feel free to come back and contribute to the discussion when you're wearing your big boy pants.

LOL. It's called sarcasm. And yes, his "Thieve's Guild review" was nothing more than a profanity-laced tirade that lacked both coherence and constructive criticism.

Sure, his review did consist of a fair share of profanity. I'll give you that. However, just because profanities were used, that doesn't mean the video lacked coherency or constructive criticism. The criticism Fengrush offers is colorfully constructive, and he makes many valid points.

Have you tried filtering the language and listening to the points made in the video? I'm going to assume "no" considering we've yet to move past "Gasp! That man said some bad, bad words. He's a very baaaad man; therefore, his opinions on ESO do not matter."

I can personally pick out plenty of sound arguments that Fengrush makes, and Fengrush's inclusion of profanities does not impact my ability to do so. See...watch this...

Some key points from Fengrush's Thieves Guild review:

1. Balance has shifted in the favor of Magicka based builds since TG released. This is mainly due to changes with CP, Proximity Detonation, and the addition of sets such as Vicious Death. Not only that, but stamina builds did not receive any noteworthy changes to their skill sets. For example, with the exception of stamina DKs and their dragon leap, stamina builds do not have ultimates that scale off of physical damage.

2. ZOS did not scale old content and gear to max level. This makes the old content and gear obsolete. Why not make old content and gear scale to max level? It'll add variety alongside new content such as Thieves Guild.

3. Performance in Cyrodiil is still extremely lackluster. Why? Because AOE caps cause ball groups. People form ball groups because they know it's safe. There's an inherent advantage to stacking numbers on top of each other. AOE caps basically serve as an artificial shield. The more numbers you have, the less damage you take. And currently, the only way to effectively combat ball groups is to bring in a ball group of your own. When these ball groups clash for hours on end and constantly spam AOEs, this becomes the root of the lag and performance issues we experience in Cyrodiil each and everyday.

See? Not that hard to pick out some of the points Fengrush made in his video despite his crude way of communicating. And even though he uses profane speech, his arguments are still plausible and comprehensible.

People are WAAAY too caught up in how the message was delivered rather than the actual message itself.

I agree it goes too much towards Magicka (even if my main is a Magicka sorc, I have Stam builds too). Basically, you wrote three points that took him about a half hour of yelling to get across. It's not the message, it is the medium. I also think they should scale the gear, but if Vet ranks go away in 3 months, it is a temporary thing. As for PvP, it cuts down on grouping to remove AoE caps, but doesn't that just make the uber players go 1v10 to make impressive videos? For me, I was hoping for huge PvP battles, and was in a few, but it is hit or miss how many are in battles at any particular time. I think removing AoE caps would take out some problems and replace them with others, it's just a matter of deciding which is the best alternative. I'm personally fine either way, but that's because I don't do a ton of PvP.

ShedsHisTail · March 2016

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like how people throw around the term "casual" like its an insult. Pretty sure you are supposed to PLAY games casually and not make it your life's work. For many of us casuals we have lots of real life obligations. We might not play as much as these supposed hardcore people but our money spends the same. By definition casuals are the majority of people paying for and playing this game.

I wear it as a term of pride.

It's not an insult but more like yin and yang
Casuals are not what mmos are made for they take tons of hours and dedication but the way they are putting this game into motion isn't like an mmo that caters to having a thriving endgame for hardcore players and casuals alike but just catering to casuals leaving that hardcore segment in the toilet and giving more and more to casuals who will just quit when the content is finished or leave until the next dlc
That's not how you make a game last or make money

Really?

A lot of "casuals" have more loyalty to this game than some of the "hardcore" players - particularly those, even in this thread, who are threatening to leave.

As I said above, I'm sure ZoS have a much better idea of who is really paying the bills - I suspect it isn't the hardcode PvPer who sits in Cyrodiil and doesn't need to sub, but rather the greater numbers of ponderous casual players slowly working their way through DLC, buying costumes and pets.

Agreed.
The casual player who spends months playing through the newest DLC, staying subbed and buying the novelty items, is going to contribute far more to the games profitability and longevity than the un-subbed hardcore player who blows through the new content in a weekend, then gets bored and finds a new game until the next DLC hits.

Lysette · March 2016

Molag_Crow wrote: »

I've been on a break from ESO for a few weeks, waiting for Thieves Guild, and I'm not entirely excited but there's that.

All the people who're disagreeing with Fengrush/most of his valid points, must be delusional! Sure, you may be pretty happy doing whatever you're currently doing in ESO, but sooner or later you'll come to the realization that most of us have already come to, and then maybe Fengrush's words will repeat in your head.

if I ever will hit "end game", then it will be just that to me - end of the game - i will move on to something else. I do not expect something to be after "end of the game" - I do not believe in an afterlife and I do not believe into game content after the end of the game either. So who is delusional now?

Lysette · March 2016

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like how people throw around the term "casual" like its an insult. Pretty sure you are supposed to PLAY games casually and not make it your life's work. For many of us casuals we have lots of real life obligations. We might not play as much as these supposed hardcore people but our money spends the same. By definition casuals are the majority of people paying for and playing this game.

I wear it as a term of pride.

It's not an insult but more like yin and yang
Casuals are not what mmos are made for they take tons of hours and dedication but the way they are putting this game into motion isn't like an mmo that caters to having a thriving endgame for hardcore players and casuals alike but just catering to casuals leaving that hardcore segment in the toilet and giving more and more to casuals who will just quit when the content is finished or leave until the next dlc
That's not how you make a game last or make money

They do not leave until the next DLC - you have a wrong impression for how long it takes a casual player to get even through one zone in this game. Some of you guys have done thief guild quest line within its first week - burnt through the content - that is not the way casuals play - for them this DLC will last for much longer than it takes for the next to come out. And they will stay subscribed during all that time, while not being a burden on the servers and as well not always whining and complaining about everything.

You guys do not give ZOS any praise at all - but look at this game, it is mostly beautiful and entertaining - if you don't enjoy it, well, then go play something else - to us casuals this game ranges from really good to just awesome, looks from beautiful to breath-taking and plays smoothly without any lag - we have a totally different experience than hardcore pvp player.

Moglijuana · March 2016

Sigh. Idk how this thread turned into a casual vs. hardcore discussion. The ENTIRE point of the video was to highlight the immense amount of transparency in ZOS's communication with their community. It affects EVERYONE. Not JUST Pvp, not JUST PvE. Everyone. All they need to do is be a bit more vocal in the direction they are planning on going and that ALONE would give people a better idea on what to look forward to, or to move on.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like how people throw around the term "casual" like its an insult. Pretty sure you are supposed to PLAY games casually and not make it your life's work. For many of us casuals we have lots of real life obligations. We might not play as much as these supposed hardcore people but our money spends the same. By definition casuals are the majority of people paying for and playing this game.

I wear it as a term of pride.

It's not an insult but more like yin and yang
Casuals are not what mmos are made for they take tons of hours and dedication but the way they are putting this game into motion isn't like an mmo that caters to having a thriving endgame for hardcore players and casuals alike but just catering to casuals leaving that hardcore segment in the toilet and giving more and more to casuals who will just quit when the content is finished or leave until the next dlc
That's not how you make a game last or make money

You dont understand is the problem. This game has been from day one a casual type MMO. It doesnt take 100s of hours of dedication. Im barely done with Orsinium and TG came out. I still havent ran the previous trials and now we have a new one already. Not to mention on entire new area to explore. Ill probably end up barely finishing it when the next one comes out. A LOT of ESO players are exactly like me. I play with a lot of my real life friends. So you saying the game isnt made for us seems like it is made exactly for us.

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

Uriel_Nocturne · March 2016

I would like that half hour of my life back, please...