Isn't the compensation too strong?

Lady_Galadhiel

TDVM wrote: »

CyberDiva wrote: »

Zerodeeps wrote: »

I'll just put it this way. 16k Seals of Endeavor is (in Radiant terms) equivalent to 2,500 crown gems. Do your own math as to what you would need to spend on crowns to amass that... as a rational person making their own decisions to purchase crowns from a company you trust has set up a fair casino... and you'll see it's quite a large some of REAL money. Not an ice cream cone or some child's toy. This erodes that trust.

How does ZOS making up for their big screw up erode trust? I would call that trust-building. Whether or not someone thinks that ZOS has set up a casino is another issue entirely that is unrelated to the issue of compensation for a mistake.

What about undermining the trust of those players who need to save up these 16 thousand for six months to accumulate them, and those who were banned for several days get them for nothing. Or who are still farming these style pages? Yes, this is a ZOS mistake, but there is no need to overdo it with compensation either

I agree with you.
How often did it happen that waves of people got banned by mistake and lost days or weeks of playing and got nothing as compensation? From what I know, at least 2 times in the last 2 years.

It isnt about people getting a compensation but more that only a certain group of people getting a very generous compensation while others who experienced the same, got nothing.

Blood_again

Xandreia_ wrote: »

[snip]

I agree, it looks sad.
That's the mentioned social pressure. It is a trick. When the compensation is big enough, people would rather talk about its amount than about the initial issue.
Tomorrow we'll have ten voices saying about a huge compensation over one voice saying about people locked out in the middle of the event. That's how ZOS saved their image looks like if we talk about people affected.
I'm sorry you happened to be in this situation. And like with the account locked, nobody asked if you wanted it this way or not. That's just sad  :( 

[edited to remove quote]

PapaJester

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

How often did it happen that waves of people got banned by mistake and lost days or weeks of playing and got nothing as compensation? From what I know, at least 2 times in the last 2 years.

It isnt about people getting a compensation but more that only a certain group of people getting a very generous compensation while others who experienced the same, got nothing.

lol nah, if it was about the injustice done to players in previous incidents, you'd be saying they should get more, not that the most recently affected players get less. Fairness only requires taking something away from 1 group when they got it at the expense of another. This ain't that.

sarahthes

For those who said the compensation was excessive for only a few days of downtime - now it's clear it's going to be more than a week. Probably at least 8 days maybe more. How long is long enough for the compensation to be "reasonable"?

Daoin

whole thing is a nightmare !

code65536

For those of you still complaining, ZOS just posted that the unlocks won't happen during the Monday maintenance. Which means that it will be over a week.

And for someone sitting on over 40K unused endeavors and zero interest in the flashy crap from the crown crates, this kinda sucks.

Jack-0

I’m not even one of the affected players and I don’t think it’s enough compensation. 16k crowns would be more appropriate, in addition to what they are giving out.

Mike71

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

CyberDiva wrote: »

Zerodeeps wrote: »

I'll just put it this way. 16k Seals of Endeavor is (in Radiant terms) equivalent to 2,500 crown gems. Do your own math as to what you would need to spend on crowns to amass that... as a rational person making their own decisions to purchase crowns from a company you trust has set up a fair casino... and you'll see it's quite a large some of REAL money. Not an ice cream cone or some child's toy. This erodes that trust.

How does ZOS making up for their big screw up erode trust? I would call that trust-building. Whether or not someone thinks that ZOS has set up a casino is another issue entirely that is unrelated to the issue of compensation for a mistake.

What about undermining the trust of those players who need to save up these 16 thousand for six months to accumulate them, and those who were banned for several days get them for nothing. Or who are still farming these style pages? Yes, this is a ZOS mistake, but there is no need to overdo it with compensation either

I agree with you.
How often did it happen that waves of people got banned by mistake and lost days or weeks of playing and got nothing as compensation? From what I know, at least 2 times in the last 2 years.

It isnt about people getting a compensation but more that only a certain group of people getting a very generous compensation while others who experienced the same, got nothing.

This raises the question of the situation in which this happened.
Here it is the case that people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time through no fault of their own were locked out.
Because we are not talking about those who took advantage of it.

TKo_ROUSE

code65536 wrote: »

For those of you still complaining, ZOS just posted that the unlocks won't happen during the Monday maintenance. Which means that it will be over a week.

And for someone sitting on over 40K unused endeavors and zero interest in the flashy crap from the crown crates, this kinda sucks.

Agreed. Kind of wish they could have disabled the event and waited until everyone's accounts were back and just re-enabled it for the extended duration. We are likely to miss the rest of the event or pretty dang close to it.

Sharrum

code65536 wrote: »

For those of you still complaining, ZOS just posted that the unlocks won't happen during the Monday maintenance. Which means that it will be over a week.

And for someone sitting on over 40K unused endeavors and zero interest in the flashy crap from the crown crates, this kinda sucks.

Yeah so...can we talk about the daily rewards? Cause im fairly sure there will be some people (myself included) who will lose the 10th anniversary costume because of this week long lockout.

hiyde

sarahthes wrote: »

For those who said the compensation was excessive for only a few days of downtime - now it's clear it's going to be more than a week. Probably at least 8 days maybe more. How long is long enough for the compensation to be "reasonable"?

Sounds like it could easily be 10 days, at which point they'll have missed out on nearly half of the (extended) event. The biggest event in a decade. For logging in to help test new content.

I wonder if they'll be able to log in at all before the event actually ends.

And yet some will still go on and on about how "overcompensated" they are. Sad.

Zerodeeps

I've said it before but I'll say it again: I applaud ZOS for trying to make this right! I'm happy for the individuals that will be getting something to make up for this mess. It is not their fault that it happened.

I've also said I don't think certain compensation is reasonable. I wouldn't give the Godslayer or Planesbreaker mount to all of them for this. And, for many people, that's what 16k seals of endeavor is! It's the biggest accomplishment they will have achieved in ESO. Some have paid LARGE amounts of REAL money to get them as well. So I hope that clarifies where, at least, I'm coming from on this.

I think there's lots of things ZOS has given them that is fair and just. The replicas, confetti, and so on. And, since these are in game items we're farming, it costs ZOS nothing to be exorbitantly generous with things like event boxes, mats, motifs, gold, etc. that they should have also used as compensation.

Yes, it's hard to put a price on playtime and progression and events, but it is also very easy to put a price in real dollar terms on the commitments ZOS has made to their other patrons. It's not just about this one select group. And, whether you see it this way or not, it is like giving someone else's Godslayer mount to whoever got locked out for 2 weeks. But that choice to give 16k seals never had to be made to compensate anyone for this. There were other ways.

Mike71

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/656543/temporarily-taking-down-the-pts-the-pc-na-live-server#latest
not 4 or 5 days..

code65536

Zerodeeps wrote: »

And, for many people, that's what 16k seals of endeavor is! It's the biggest accomplishment they will have achieved in ESO.

ROFL.

I've earned over 60K and am sitting on over 40K unused endeavors. 16K is not an "accomplishment".

hiyde

"Zerodeeps wrote: »

"And, whether you see it this way or not, it is like giving someone else's Godslayer mount to whoever got locked out for 2 weeks. But that choice to give 16k seals never had to be made to compensate anyone for this. There were other ways.

These people volunteered to help test new content and as a result, will be locked out of the biggest event in this game's 10 year history for roughly 1/2 of the duration.

For those 2 reasons (and to diminish the damage to future PTS participation), they needed to do a big gesture here. I suggested 6+ months of ESO+ but whether it was that, or a big fat pile of Crowns, or the seals they ended up doing, I have zero issues with it. They basically get to choose a shiny mount. Big deal!

This is my favorite community in any MMO I've ever played, but some folks sure aren't showing their best side with some of the jealousness & whataboutism on display these past few days.

TKo_ROUSE

Zerodeeps wrote: »

I've said it before but I'll say it again: I applaud ZOS for trying to make this right! I'm happy for the individuals that will be getting something to make up for this mess. It is not their fault that it happened.

I've also said I don't think certain compensation is reasonable. I wouldn't give the Godslayer or Planesbreaker mount to all of them for this. And, for many people, that's what 16k seals of endeavor is! It's the biggest accomplishment they will have achieved in ESO. Some have paid LARGE amounts of REAL money to get them as well. So I hope that clarifies where, at least, I'm coming from on this.

I think there's lots of things ZOS has given them that is fair and just. The replicas, confetti, and so on. And, since these are in game items we're farming, it costs ZOS nothing to be exorbitantly generous with things like event boxes, mats, motifs, gold, etc. that they should have also used as compensation.

Yes, it's hard to put a price on playtime and progression and events, but it is also very easy to put a price in real dollar terms on the commitments ZOS has made to their other patrons. It's not just about this one select group. And, whether you see it this way or not, it is like giving someone else's Godslayer mount to whoever got locked out for 2 weeks. But that choice to give 16k seals never had to be made to compensate anyone for this. There were other ways.

But gambling on crates is not an achievement. I bet over 50% of the banned accounts had at least 1 of the trial mounts. So most of us likely would never utilize the radiant apex mounts anyway. We would rather utilize the mounts we earned from doing the hardest in game content.

I am in team I would have rather gotten the in game items then the cash store cosmetics. I would have been fine getting compensated the 200 purple boxes a day I was grinding. But that is hard to justify. I might be grinding a ton and the person next to me might only do writs on one toon. So I also understand why they couldn't go this route.

Daoin

im going to backtrack on my impression here a bit now i see its nearly 2 weeks, i am unable to come up with any ideas how 2 weeks of downtime could be compesated to eso's players...i hope anything you eventually get is enough to forget this crumby situation now im thinking 16k seals seems small or just still not right somehow...maybe an actual crown currency compensation sounds a bit more fair to me right now

PapaJester

Zerodeeps wrote: »

I wouldn't give the Godslayer or Planesbreaker mount to all of them for this. And, for many people, that's what 16k seals of endeavor is! It's the biggest accomplishment they will have achieved in ESO. Some have paid LARGE amounts of REAL money to get them as well. So I hope that clarifies where, at least, I'm coming from on this.

You keep making this point, and it's still not valid. You're talking about rewards for content that you can play at any time, versus compensation for a lockout during 2 events with limited time rewards. The Endeavors aren't coming out of anyone's pocket, so it makes absolutely no difference how long it takes Johnny McNotLockedOut to earn 16k Seals. It's not a relative currency, it's value is static. You're comparing apples to orangutans.

ZOS_Icy

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Reginald_leBlem

People are going to be locked out all weekend, and the topic is being "revisited" early next week.

Does it still seem too generous?

noblecron

Considering those of us locked are going to mmiss the remaining event. This seems very fair and makes sense

WiseSky

I am happy for them after grinding for 4 hours and not getting a page... they get each of them lol !
and 16k...

So the move for this event was to test PTS not the actually event

Zerodeeps

In response to people who don't think this is the same thing:

Just because you have a trial mount, doesn't mean someone else does (or ever will).

Just because something is easy for you, doesn't mean it is easy for someone else.

Just because someone spent money on something you think is frivolous/irresponsible/unnecessary, doesn't negate its value to them.

Just as some are saying the compensation is too big/too small for the time they are missing, there's no way to put a value on these things that will make all people happy.

But a choice was made and it was the lazy choice. Instead of giving ALL the things you could actually get from participating in this event, and in generous amounts, compensation was reduced to Seals. It wasn't mats, gold, event boxes, Planesbreaker mounts and titles, or ESO+ for life... it was reduced to one metric. That affects a group even if you don't belong to that group.

So screw them... it's not us. It doesn't affect them. I'm just trying to explain why there's this feeling of unfairness out there. People have spent real money on these things over years... They've rushed home to log in to get their seals. Maybe even sacrificed friendships, relationships, sleep, because they have a long term goal. Their goal isn't any "lesser" than yours.

People in our community are suffering, unable to play. But they're not the only people that count.
Anyway, this is above my paygrade. I just hope this helps explain what people have been expressing. I don't think they're being petty. It doesn't mean they don't care about the game or the people locked out. The empathy towards them has been really lacking... like there's this inability from the people who agree with this compensation to see the other side.

At least, for the people unable to login right now, they know they're not banned. They know that people are working hard to get them back online. And that there are quite a large number of people out there who wish they were in their place, as meaningless as that might seem right now.

Braffin

Zerodeeps wrote: »

In response to people who don't think this is the same thing:

Just because you have a trial mount, doesn't mean someone else does (or ever will).

Just because something is easy for you, doesn't mean it is easy for someone else.

Just because someone spent money on something you think is frivolous/irresponsible/unnecessary, doesn't negate its value to them.

Just as some are saying the compensation is too big/too small for the time they are missing, there's no way to put a value on these things that will make all people happy.

But a choice was made and it was the lazy choice. Instead of giving ALL the things you could actually get from participating in this event, and in generous amounts, compensation was reduced to Seals. It wasn't mats, gold, event boxes, Planesbreaker mounts and titles, or ESO+ for life... it was reduced to one metric. That affects a group even if you don't belong to that group.

So screw them... it's not us. It doesn't affect them. I'm just trying to explain why there's this feeling of unfairness out there. People have spent real money on these things over years... They've rushed home to log in to get their seals. Maybe even sacrificed friendships, relationships, sleep, because they have a long term goal. Their goal isn't any "lesser" than yours.

People in our community are suffering, unable to play. But they're not the only people that count.
Anyway, this is above my paygrade. I just hope this helps explain what people have been expressing. I don't think they're being petty. It doesn't mean they don't care about the game or the people locked out. The empathy towards them has been really lacking... like there's this inability from the people who agree with this compensation to see the other side.

At least, for the people unable to login right now, they know they're not banned. They know that people are working hard to get them back online. And that there are quite a large number of people out there who wish they were in their place, as meaningless as that might seem right now.

If someone spent a specific amount of money for a virtual product (which is infinite by nature) because they felt said money fitting for the goods value, then please explain to me how exactly is said value reduced by gifting this product to another person, even if the product itself (including it's infinite availability) doesn't change at all.

The product bought with money is still the very same, there is just one more person owning it.

code65536

Braffin wrote: »

The product bought with money is still the very same, there is just one more person owning it.

They're treating these things as positional goods.

Araneae6537

Over a week locked out and probably missed the rest of the event — of course all the affected players should get all the rewards they might have earned had they been able to participate!

What of all the purple boxes, materials, motifs? Hopefully some can be earned with the additional account, but many sources will be harder without a leveled and geared character and good mount speed. And that’s to say nothing of all the game beyond the event, cores and other group activities these players may have been a part of.

Even the Seals of Endeavor, we are all of us who can play on our accounts getting opportunities for extra seals — this week has been over 100 each day in addition to the weekly. Yes, 16k is still over and above, looking only at these numbers, but compensation really should be, and for many players it may well not make up what they are losing out on in other areas.

Who would really want to trade places now? Perhaps only players logging in for endeavors? I doubt that describes most players, especially during this event.

Braffin

code65536 wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

The product bought with money is still the very same, there is just one more person owning it.

They're treating these things as positional goods.

I get that much.

I just don't get why exactly they refuse to accept the standardized english term for this behaviour:

definition of "to wish that you had something that another person has" found in Cambridge dictionary

Zerodeeps

If they gave Godslayer mounts to all the people locked out, would you feel the same way? Doesn't trivialize you having it. Some would be unhappy because they already have it/don't need it. I would be shouting from the rooftops not to do that... but you seem to be taking the position that that's okay. So maybe clarify why you working for something wouldn't be trivialized in some way if they just gave it out willy nilly. I know this point is difficult for some people to wrap their heads around... or maybe they do and just disagree. That's fine, if so. But that is my position. It would be wrong to do.

9 months of effort is being given away for this mess. The equivalent of hundreds? thousand+? dollars/hundreds of hours of gameplay that people may have spent supporting ZOS and a game they love (as much as anyone). Playing by ZOS' rules, which are seemingly being thrown out the window in favor of a certain class of player. Who doesn't even need another mount? From the responses, a lot of people are saying they don't even need more seals... so... could there have been a better way?

Galiferno

wilykcat wrote: »

TDVM wrote: »

Their statement:


I agree with the rest, with the exception of 16k thousand Seals of Endeavor, don't you think that 16k is a lot? considering that the players have only been in the bathhouse for a few days and how long does it take to collect such an amount? Why not change this number to 8k? What do you think about this?

Participation rewards for this? Noted.

I very much agree with your statement on this. Players who were locked out of their account for only 2 days get all this free stuff including a huge amount of seals of endeavors. This isn't really fair to the rest of the players who never were locked out of their accounts. For a player who didn't get affected, it will take him/her many months of daily grinding to get 16k seals of endeavors.

I also agree that the amount should be lowered to 8k as well.

An ongoing trend is, its always a few players who overly complain about something that's temporary (such as not being able to play the game for 2 days). Then they make demands to get all this free stuff along with additional changes. Later they realize that complaining does get them everything they want, so they will keep on doing it. Which will eventually end up going downhill.

When the PC/NA server went down a few days ago, I was at work. The other maintenance was on my day off. I decided to go outside, embrace nature, and enjoy the nice warm springtime weather. Then my frustration disappeared and later everything turned out alright.

Too many of you are spreading this straightup lie about us being banned for 2 days. Go ahead and read ZOS' posts in their pinned thread. You'll see that they've only unlocked a small amount of accounts so far. Looks like most of us won't get our accounts get until after Monday, so that's a minimum of one week. Please explain to me how the majority of us being locked out for over a week is equivalent to two days.

DerAlleinTiger

wilykcat wrote: »

fernflower wrote: »

May I ask what compensation was given to innocent players who were just unlucky enough to deconstruct their items at the wrong time, which were banned temporarily suspended for a 10+ days during the crafting event literally two months ago? Can't find anything but "please be patient"

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be notified once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Yeah, I'm now starting to think this whole compensation thing isnt really making sense along with its a bit of an overreaction. I do know one reason behind it is more so for marketing purposes to keep a good image.

I guess Zenimax also got tired of the large amount of complaints received from a small portion of the playerbase, so they decided to reward them with 16k endeavors and lots of other stuff. It sets a bad precedent. I hope in the future they give out less compensation.

[snip] In my entire decade of playing this game, I've seen many, many, many criticisms (to put it lightly) of ZOS but never once would I ever have expected one to be "They shouldn't give out so much to players they screw something up for."

I think players in the past should have gotten compensation if they or a specific group they were a part of was wronged. A bit of down time in the servers for everyone is one thing, and normal (and even then they often still give some kind of compensation). But if someone gets wrongfully banned or locked out of their account over a mistake ZOS made? Yes, they absolutely should have been compensated, and should be going forward. If you, yes you specifically, get wrongfully banned or locked out, you should get compensation.

This zero sum game thing people are viewing it as is so short-sighted and just... counter to all our own interests. For ten years I and others have struggled to get every little kind thing we can from ZOS - which might have great people working for it but as a whole entity is VERY frustrating to deal and communicate with at times - and now people want to spit on the very idea of getting more from the company they've paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars to? [snip]

[edited for baiting]