Ravenwatch PC EU

Tigor

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

Have been playing large scale groups years ago, especially to tackle ballgroups, but after the group size reduction from 24 to 12 ball groups are too strong. Apart from the lag it is not pleasant to end up in a brawl that makes you dizzy by uncontrollable actions.

It is not only that waiting on another alliance can be considered as spying. Swapping alliances because the map asks for it could be classified as the same. How often the map is turning while the populations are still low. That 12hrs lock would make players think twice before they swap, and give the rest of the population that mostly is playing during primetime, on their favorite alliance, a guarantee not to be cheated on.

We are playing on a non-proc server where we do not have all the common tools that ballgroups normally rely on to become OP: Snow-Treaders, Vicious Death, Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence, Rush of Agony, etc. Then Harmony was nerfed/changed a few months ago, which represented a huge hit to the damage of the ballgroups who relied on synergy-nuking (which was most of them). The difference is noticeable since many known ballgroups in RW now lack the damage to wipe large groups and have started building more tanky just to be able to survive getting zerged down.

So really, any claim that ballgroups are now too strong is misplaced. They should be easier to fight than ever.

Group size is not an excuse either. EP guilds coordinate together, so especially during prime time it is very rare to spot them alone. Even a guild like Schatten Konvent, which is in essence a ballgroup, often pushes alongside 1-2 other guilds. The lag excuse has also flown since new servers. So if you find yourself vastly outnumbering a non-proc ballgroup but still getting wiped by them, maybe it is not a matter of this playstyle being 'easier' but about every person in that group putting in a lot of work to compensate for the lack of numbers.

Now we know ball groups have weakened, and being part of that is like slavery only to survive. Lost souls should not play like that, but play PvP as intended. Ball Groups are indeed over the top in this campaign. The change from proc to a non proc campaign underlines that those sets have always been in favor of those groups. Apparently a 12hrs lock would bring the balling philosophy in jeopardy otherwise you would not emphasize it so strongly. And the new servers should not mean that we need to stress those to bring back the old situation by alliance stacking around a ball group. Changes are introduced all the time and the next one could be something that will prevent exploitation as only real pvp should be rewarded. Being in a group is fine for coordination but extensive over-supportive skills from group members to survive should be limited, as alliance hopping should be. And one Tamriel has always been in Cyrodiil, but here we will not pick flowers together. Or will we?

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

Now we know ball groups have weakened, and being part of that is like slavery only to survive. Lost souls should not play like that, but play PvP as intended. Ball Groups are indeed over the top in this campaign. The change from proc to a non proc campaign underlines that those sets have always been in favor of those groups. Apparently a 12hrs lock would bring the balling philosophy in jeopardy otherwise you would not emphasize it so strongly. And the new servers should not mean that we need to stress those to bring back the old situation by alliance stacking around a ball group. Changes are introduced all the time and the next one could be something that will prevent exploitation as only real pvp should be rewarded. Being in a group is fine for coordination but extensive over-supportive skills from group members to survive should be limited, as alliance hopping should be.

Who are you to say how the game was intended to be played? If ZOS thought the current ballgroup playstyle went against their vision, they could and would take simply steps to curb it. The fact that they haven't means that maybe you should accept that this playstyle is every bit as valid as yours.

I don't know what you refer to with 'lost souls'. The build that I use in a ballgroup is the same one I use in a casual group. It is pretty basic and I have shared it with people who only play casually. The thing that makes me stand out from inexperienced players is high casts per minute, high uptimes on key skills, good resource management and good positioning. In short, I make as good a use as I can of the tools that are provided to me by the game. Perhaps consider that this just constitutes playing well rather than exploiting or turning the game into something it shouldn't be. So what do you think I or any other ballgroup player should do in order to make things 'fair'? Just play worse? Use worse sets? Open to suggestions. And would you suggest the same to EP guilds Schatten and Mother of Storms, both of whom try to play in ball formation as well?

And one Tamriel has always been in Cyrodiil, but here we will not pick flowers together. Or will we?

I wouldn't rule it out.

Tigor

The current distribution is in favor of EP is what

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

Now we know ball groups have weakened, and being part of that is like slavery only to survive. Lost souls should not play like that, but play PvP as intended. Ball Groups are indeed over the top in this campaign. The change from proc to a non proc campaign underlines that those sets have always been in favor of those groups. Apparently a 12hrs lock would bring the balling philosophy in jeopardy otherwise you would not emphasize it so strongly. And the new servers should not mean that we need to stress those to bring back the old situation by alliance stacking around a ball group. Changes are introduced all the time and the next one could be something that will prevent exploitation as only real pvp should be rewarded. Being in a group is fine for coordination but extensive over-supportive skills from group members to survive should be limited, as alliance hopping should be.

Who are you to say how the game was intended to be played? If ZOS thought the current ballgroup playstyle went against their vision, they could and would take simply steps to curb it. The fact that they haven't means that maybe you should accept that this playstyle is every bit as valid as yours.

I don't know what you refer to with 'lost souls'. The build that I use in a ballgroup is the same one I use in a casual group. It is pretty basic and I have shared it with people who only play casually. The thing that makes me stand out from inexperienced players is high casts per minute, high uptimes on key skills, good resource management and good positioning. In short, I make as good a use as I can of the tools that are provided to me by the game. Perhaps consider that this just constitutes playing well rather than exploiting or turning the game into something it shouldn't be. So what do you think I or any other ballgroup player should do in order to make things 'fair'? Just play worse? Use worse sets? Open to suggestions. And would you suggest the same to EP guilds Schatten and Mother of Storms, both of whom try to play in ball formation as well?

And one Tamriel has always been in Cyrodiil, but here we will not pick flowers together. Or will we?

I wouldn't rule it out.

But on the otherhand I have never seen you in this campaign. Who are you?

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

But on the otherhand I have never seen you in this campaign. Who are you?

Healer of Noxious and Lights, my ID is in my signature.

Tigor

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

But on the otherhand I have never seen you in this campaign. Who are you?

Healer of Noxious and Lights, my ID is in my signature.

Ok then I will remind that.

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

But on the otherhand I have never seen you in this campaign. Who are you?

Healer of Noxious and Lights, my ID is in my signature.

Ok then I will remind that.

For what purpose, exactly?

Jamie_Aubrey

Nice Blue map as always but AD are the ones that PVDoor

Tigor

As usual DC cheaters everywhere again. Report them pls

Jamie_Aubrey

Tigor wrote: »

As usual DC cheaters everywhere again. Report them pls

I just had one that seemed to have self rezzed after being killed tonight

Tigor

Jamie_Aubrey wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

As usual DC cheaters everywhere again. Report them pls

I just had one that seemed to have self rezzed after being killed tonight

Also spotted a dead player alive again inside one of our strongholds while the doors were closed. Very awkward to achieve a gap in back in time? Undo!

Jamie_Aubrey

Tigor wrote: »

Jamie_Aubrey wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

As usual DC cheaters everywhere again. Report them pls

I just had one that seemed to have self rezzed after being killed tonight

Also spotted a dead player alive again inside one of our strongholds while the doors were closed. Very awkward to achieve a gap in back in time? Undo!

I already reported someone for glitching back into a keep I tried it myself but you need perfect timing, I dunno how they did it more than once

Jamie_Aubrey

Had a talk with a random DC last night about AD PvDoor and they were determined I was brain dead cause I told them its DC at PvDoor the map and I bet I can log in and the map will be blue, well guess what ? You just need to look at the score and they have double to know that they take an empty map and lose it again the minute an AD group log on, just like last night when they lost 4 scrolls, where are those players then ? All sleeping

Anyway this turned into a mini rant

Victor_Storm

so what are the strongest guilds in RW, in AD, DC, and EP?

Tigor

Victor_Storm wrote: »

so what are the strongest guilds in RW, in AD, DC, and EP?

One way to measure is checking the claims of strongholds. Would be nice if a campaign log would keep track. I have mentioned this before in a separate thread. A history would give a better answer.

WaywardArgonian

Victor_Storm wrote: »

so what are the strongest guilds in RW, in AD, DC, and EP?

Based on what I've seen over the past 6 months I would say:

DC - Retter des Keiserreiches
AD - Noxious
EP - La Fame

That is to say strongest in terms of how difficult it is to fight them, not necessarily their impact on the campaign as these kinds of guilds tend to just want to fight without fussing much over campaign scores.

Tigor

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Victor_Storm wrote: »

so what are the strongest guilds in RW, in AD, DC, and EP?

Based on what I've seen over the past 6 months I would say:

DC - Retter des Keiserreiches
AD - Noxious
EP - La Fame

That is to say strongest in terms of how difficult it is to fight them, not necessarily their impact on the campaign as these kinds of guilds tend to just want to fight without fussing much over campaign scores.

Those are just lousy ballgroups that no one wants to fight.....

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

Those are just lousy ballgroups that no one wants to fight.....

Leaders of casual guilds are often so judgmental. I wonder if it is because of their principles or because they don't like losing a fight. It's just a game.

InvitationNotFound

Tigor wrote: »

As usual DC cheaters everywhere again. Report them pls

Could you give a few examples?

What are they doing?

Tigor

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

Those are just lousy ballgroups that no one wants to fight.....

Leaders of casual guilds are often so judgmental. I wonder if it is because of their principles or because they don't like losing a fight. It's just a game.

A principle matter of not being farmed by boredom. It is the end of the game and not endgame. It is all about winning and the ball group playstyle is not fitting in that picture as it is just creating to much stress. ZoS should put a bit more effort in the quality of game experience by resolving desyncs in PvP and a more healthy and casual playstyle will be possible.

Tigor

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

As usual DC cheaters everywhere again. Report them pls

Could you give a few examples?

What are they doing?

Alliance hopping

Hopping around like frogs

Exploiting Line of sight

Dodging everything

Flying back and forward

Endless resource management 1vX

Appearing at impossible places after dead

Addons that might show locations

Macros, five skills in one seconds before even seeing someone.

PvD the map when possible and camping when PvP starts.

And many more unexplainable things

Zabagad

lol

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

Those are just lousy ballgroups that no one wants to fight.....

Leaders of casual guilds are often so judgmental. I wonder if it is because of their principles or because they don't like losing a fight. It's just a game.

A principle matter of not being farmed by boredom. It is the end of the game and not endgame. It is all about winning and the ball group playstyle is not fitting in that picture as it is just creating to much stress. ZoS should put a bit more effort in the quality of game experience by resolving desyncs in PvP and a more healthy and casual playstyle will be possible.

Once again, Schatten Konvent is a ballgroup, and guilds like Mother of Storms play like one, so does your judgment extend to your EP allies or is it reserved only for enemy guilds?

In any case the question was what the best current guilds on Ravenwatch are, and in terms of player skill, the ones I named are good candidates. If you want to judge guilds by how many keeps they claim then Nightbane is the best guild in the entire game I guess.

Tigor

Zabagad wrote: »

lol

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

Those are just lousy ballgroups that no one wants to fight.....

Leaders of casual guilds are often so judgmental. I wonder if it is because of their principles or because they don't like losing a fight. It's just a game.

A principle matter of not being farmed by boredom. It is the end of the game and not endgame. It is all about winning and the ball group playstyle is not fitting in that picture as it is just creating to much stress. ZoS should put a bit more effort in the quality of game experience by resolving desyncs in PvP and a more healthy and casual playstyle will be possible.

Once again, Schatten Konvent is a ballgroup, and guilds like Mother of Storms play like one, so does your judgment extend to your EP allies or is it reserved only for enemy guilds?

In any case the question was what the best current guilds on Ravenwatch are, and in terms of player skill, the ones I named are good candidates. If you want to judge guilds by how many keeps they claim then Nightbane is the best guild in the entire game I guess.

And how do you want to measure the best guild? Roll a 🎲?

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

And how do you want to measure the best guild? Roll a 🎲?

The one that wins the most encounters, taking into account the numbers on each side.

If you can wipe an entire guild in a single push, it's safe to assume they are less skilled than a guild of the same size that puts up a fight for 5 minutes straight without wiping.

Not the most accurate system but definitely than better than keep claims, as those have literally nothing to do with the quality or even activity of a guild since they just require one person standing next to the merchant when a keep flips.

InvitationNotFound

Tigor wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

As usual DC cheaters everywhere again. Report them pls

Could you give a few examples?

What are they doing?

Alliance hopping

Hopping around like frogs

Exploiting Line of sight

Dodging everything

Flying back and forward

Endless resource management 1vX

Appearing at impossible places after dead

Addons that might show locations

Macros, five skills in one seconds before even seeing someone.

PvD the map when possible and camping when PvP starts.

And many more unexplainable things

Good to know that hopping around like frogs is cheating. Thank you for the clarification.

Tigor

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

As usual DC cheaters everywhere again. Report them pls

Could you give a few examples?

What are they doing?

Alliance hopping

Hopping around like frogs

Exploiting Line of sight

Dodging everything

Flying back and forward

Endless resource management 1vX

Appearing at impossible places after dead

Addons that might show locations

Macros, five skills in one seconds before even seeing someone.

PvD the map when possible and camping when PvP starts.

And many more unexplainable things

Good to know that hopping around like frogs is cheating. Thank you for the clarification.

Hopping brings advantages to some classes and builds and originates from boredom.

https://youtu.be/FoDmpAXxX28

InvitationNotFound

Yes, i agree, jumping is cheating.

Tigor

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

And how do you want to measure the best guild? Roll a 🎲?

The one that wins the most encounters, taking into account the numbers on each side.

If you can wipe an entire guild in a single push, it's safe to assume they are less skilled than a guild of the same size that puts up a fight for 5 minutes straight without wiping.

Not the most accurate system but definitely than better than keep claims, as those have literally nothing to do with the quality or even activity of a guild since they just require one person standing next to the merchant when a keep flips.

Then there is also the coordinating and tactical part of the pie. Wiping a whole guild is only measurable when everybody is wearing a tabard and no randoms are around. But then still there are a lot of differences between groups in every fight. The winner will mostly have control over a whole area.

You are right about claims done by one person, and surely many claims are made by clowns. Only in the long term do you comb out quality from just playful actions. Well known guilds will float to the surface. Quality in the sense of good people with the will to play as a team, that gives space and a place to learn from each other resulting in a good reputation are the most important.

Power terms such as "strong" and "skilled" are suggestive and unbelievably simple with no added value to win a campaign.

WaywardArgonian

Tigor wrote: »

Then there is also the coordinating and tactical part of the pie. Wiping a whole guild is only measurable when everybody is wearing a tabard and no randoms are around. But then still there are a lot of differences between groups in every fight. The winner will mostly have control over a whole area.

You are right about claims done by one person, and surely many claims are made by clowns. Only in the long term do you comb out quality from just playful actions. Well known guilds will float to the surface. Quality in the sense of good people with the will to play as a team, that gives space and a place to learn from each other resulting in a good reputation are the most important.

Power terms such as "strong" and "skilled" are suggestive and unbelievably simple with no added value to win a campaign.

What are you talking about? Someone asked a simple question about which are the best guilds in Ravenwatch and I named the guilds which currently perform the best based on my experience in the campaign. You meanwhile seem to attempt to twist the definition of 'best' to such a degree that it doesn't include actual skill (at a video game, may I remind you) but who has a 'good reputation' as if that isn't infinitely more suggestive not to mention less relevant to the question at hand.

I do not get the first part of the message either, about it not being 'measurable'. Of course it is measurable. If it requires multiple guilds or even an entire faction to get rid of a single group, then it is pretty safe to assume that the latter group is more skilled at playing the game. If I were to join your group for a run and I'd vastly outperform all of your healers in terms of HPS, uptimes, survivability and positioning (all of which are easily measurable), then that would make me a better healer, regardless of my reputation. You are free to take me up on that challenge, too. Skill is proven on the battlefield, not through some esoteric conception about what makes a good person, let alone which faction stays up the latest to keep the map scores ticking in their favor while the other factions are asleep.

Tigor

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

Tigor wrote: »

Then there is also the coordinating and tactical part of the pie. Wiping a whole guild is only measurable when everybody is wearing a tabard and no randoms are around. But then still there are a lot of differences between groups in every fight. The winner will mostly have control over a whole area.

You are right about claims done by one person, and surely many claims are made by clowns. Only in the long term do you comb out quality from just playful actions. Well known guilds will float to the surface. Quality in the sense of good people with the will to play as a team, that gives space and a place to learn from each other resulting in a good reputation are the most important.

Power terms such as "strong" and "skilled" are suggestive and unbelievably simple with no added value to win a campaign.

What are you talking about? Someone asked a simple question about which are the best guilds in Ravenwatch and I named the guilds which currently perform the best based on my experience in the campaign. You meanwhile seem to attempt to twist the definition of 'best' to such a degree that it doesn't include actual skill (at a video game, may I remind you) but who has a 'good reputation' as if that isn't infinitely more suggestive not to mention less relevant to the question at hand.

I do not get the first part of the message either, about it not being 'measurable'. Of course it is measurable. If it requires multiple guilds or even an entire faction to get rid of a single group, then it is pretty safe to assume that the latter group is more skilled at playing the game. If I were to join your group for a run and I'd vastly outperform all of your healers in terms of HPS, uptimes, survivability and positioning (all of which are easily measurable), then that would make me a better healer, regardless of my reputation. You are free to take me up on that challenge, too. Skill is proven on the battlefield, not through some esoteric conception about what makes a good person, let alone which faction stays up the latest to keep the map scores ticking in their favor while the other factions are asleep.

In short: Challenge accepted. You are in! All you need to do is keep in touch in game and play EP.