PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

SilverBride

• What prompted this change?
• What is ZoS tryng to accomplish with this change?
• How will this benefit the individual player?
• How will this benefit the game as a whole?

[Edited for clarity]

Wolf_Eye

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

I feel like there's been more threads on wanting difficulty settings on overland, so much so that ZOS had to make a sticky thread for it. And yet I don't think they're considering doing a difficulty setting at this time.

I feel like this may be more of a personal decision on ZOS' part.

silvereyes

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation...

I am trying to prevent its implementation because it will completely destroy the way I have enjoyed playing this game for many years. I love this game and sincerely hope they pull this mess until they can find a much less disruptive way to implement it.

And that why some are againt you, sure you have your reason but so does people who want it to go trough. You actively try to stop the Qol they have been asking for years

All AWA does for a player is help them skip actually playing the game. That's not quality of life and it has very detrimental effects for those of us who enjoy playing each character as individuals.

This is an oversimplification that is not true for me personally.

I want character tracking of all the content there is to do in the game, so I'm definitely not a fan of how things are implemented on PTS.

However, I can't deny that I'm also looking forward to more houses becoming available to purchase for gold, because now the number of quests I've done in each zone is going to be accumulated across characters. I've played the game, and I've done the number of quests required already, but since many were repeats on different characters, they didn't count towards unlocking the purchase ability on my main.

I would have been just as happy if there were no AwA, but the questing prerequisites for housing purchases were removed. They should have never been there in the first place, imo. They only served as an obstruction to drive Crown Store housing sales.

I suspect I'm not the only person that appreciates some aspect of AwA not for the achievements themselves, but for the rewards/unlocks that have been denied due to our gaming activities being split up between characters.

SilverBride

silvereyes wrote: »

...I'm also looking forward to more houses becoming available to purchase for gold, because now the number of quests I've done in each zone is going to be accumulated across characters. I've played the game, and I've done the number of quests required already, but since many were repeats on different characters, they didn't count towards unlocking the purchase ability on my main.

Housing is already account wide. Just purchase the house with the character that has already met the requirements and now all your characters have access to it.

[Edited for clarity]

KMarble

silvereyes wrote: »

However, I can't deny that I'm also looking forward to more houses becoming available to purchase for gold, because now the number of quests I've done in each zone is going to be accumulated across characters. I've played the game, and I've done the number of quests required already, but since many were repeats on different characters, they didn't count towards unlocking the purchase ability on my main.

I would have been just as happy if there were no AwA, but the questing prerequisites for housing purchases were removed. They should have never been there in the first place, imo. They only served as an obstruction to drive Crown Store housing sales.

I suspect I'm not the only person that appreciates some aspect of AwA not for the achievements themselves, but for the rewards/unlocks that have been denied due to our gaming activities being split up between characters.

As far as I understand the changes, doing repeats of the same quest(s) won't help you get closer. Lets say there are 3 steps to unlock the achievement that allows you to buy a house. Doing step 1 on 3 different characters only counts once. The only way it would work was if you did each of the 3 steps on 3 different character.

Most, if not all, houses that get unlocked for purchase that way require you to finish the main quest in the zone. If there are 5 different quests to get there, you'll need to do all 5. Not 5 times one quest. If AWA goes live you will be able to do each quest on a different character (kinda, sorta, because some quests have prerequisites, so you might need to do more than one quest/char), But you still have to do them all.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying.

silvereyes

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I just thought of something.

We have a lot of very detailed posts on why we would like to retain character specific tracking, but going over the thread, I'd really love to see some more similar posts from those who want and need AWA for their play style so we can get a better idea of what you think AWA is, what your expectations are, and what you'd like to see improved. Does this version of AWA actually meet your expectations? What are you passionate about ? What aspects of the game bring you joy? We have some, but I feel like we could use a lot more specifics that will help us devise ideas.

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation- We are not your enemy, and would like to work with you to make ZOS see that a solution that works for us both is possible. This is not an us vs them situation and does not have to be a fight.

Calmly tell us what you need, what you like about the game, what could be improved. Explain your frustrations to us without minimizing the frustrations of others who have a different play style than you- we are listening and want to help you make AWA the best possible version that it can be. please help us help you so that your voices can be heard along side ours. That way, we can empathize with you all the more.

You have many articulate and well spoken representatives who are doing a great job at assisting us in understanding your perspective. This could be a great system that is far better than what we are seeing on the PTS, and I truly believe you can help us make it so if you work with us.

in some of the examples ive made earlier in this thread the main reason i want acct wide achievements is to make it easier to work on some of the achievements (kill/do X number of times achievements, or composite achievements)

an example i gave in my previous post was this:

there is achievement for completing both falkreath hold and bloodroot forge on vet which unlocks a dye

What do you feel like you have legitimately earned by defeating each vet dungeon independently on separate characters: the dye, the achievement badge, or both? If you could earn the dye account-wide while allowing each character to earn a separate vet dungeon clear independently, would you be equally pleased with that arrangement?

SilverBride

silvereyes wrote: »

What do you feel like you have legitimately earned by defeating each vet dungeon independently on separate characters?

I don't know about veteran dungeons or what the poster you were responding to wants from this, but I do know this. For me, and many others, what we want by completing any content individually on separate characters is the ability to replay the game in its entirety on all of our characters, not just the first one. We don't want all our future alts to be stuck with a bare bones stripped down version of the game.

silvereyes

KMarble wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

However, I can't deny that I'm also looking forward to more houses becoming available to purchase for gold, because now the number of quests I've done in each zone is going to be accumulated across characters. I've played the game, and I've done the number of quests required already, but since many were repeats on different characters, they didn't count towards unlocking the purchase ability on my main.

I would have been just as happy if there were no AwA, but the questing prerequisites for housing purchases were removed. They should have never been there in the first place, imo. They only served as an obstruction to drive Crown Store housing sales.

I suspect I'm not the only person that appreciates some aspect of AwA not for the achievements themselves, but for the rewards/unlocks that have been denied due to our gaming activities being split up between characters.

As far as I understand the changes, doing repeats of the same quest(s) won't help you get closer.

Repeats of the same quest on the same character don't count (e.g. dailies), but repeats of the same quests on different characters do increment the zone's Adventurer achievement, which is the one used to unlock houses. I just tested doing the same delve quest on two separate characters on PTS. The first brought the Adventurer achievement quest count to 3. The second brought it to 4.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

There have been forum threads asking for a lot of things repeatedly over the years that haven't been implemented, especially without any indication that they actually found it feasible and an asset to the game. Something else is behind their decision to do this and I think we deserve to know what that is.

What about the ps5 player wanting their trophy back? Could be the way they found to retroactivly give them back?

Jaraal

SilverBride wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I don't find any feature that let's players skip over content yet still be rewarded for it as a positive change, and feel this is leading the game down a very bad path. We'd really like to know why this is happening.

• What prompted this change?
• What is ZoS tryng to accomplish with this change?
• How will this benefit the individual player?
• How will this benefit the game as a whole?

Somebody speculated that it might have to do with earning cards in the new card game. But that wouldn't make any sense, because (one would think) earned cards would automatically be account wide, too.

As for benefitting the game as a whole, well... since all we can do at this point is speculate.... perhaps they thought since replayability would be nerfed by removing the desire (and ability) to repeat quests and achievements on alts, therefore causing less players to log in, that it would ultimately help performance. Less players = less server load. And more players would be able to say "I beat the game," or "I finally accomplished everything I wanted to when my characters' achievements were combined," and it would be easier to move on to other games.

SilverBride

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

There have been forum threads asking for a lot of things repeatedly over the years that haven't been implemented, especially without any indication that they actually found it feasible and an asset to the game. Something else is behind their decision to do this and I think we deserve to know what that is.

What about the ps5 player wanting their thophy back?

I don't know about ps5, but I remember seeing a thread where they lost trophies when moving over from ps4. I agree something should be done about that, but that is a separate issue that needs resolved.

Necrotech_Master

silvereyes wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I just thought of something.

We have a lot of very detailed posts on why we would like to retain character specific tracking, but going over the thread, I'd really love to see some more similar posts from those who want and need AWA for their play style so we can get a better idea of what you think AWA is, what your expectations are, and what you'd like to see improved. Does this version of AWA actually meet your expectations? What are you passionate about ? What aspects of the game bring you joy? We have some, but I feel like we could use a lot more specifics that will help us devise ideas.

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation- We are not your enemy, and would like to work with you to make ZOS see that a solution that works for us both is possible. This is not an us vs them situation and does not have to be a fight.

Calmly tell us what you need, what you like about the game, what could be improved. Explain your frustrations to us without minimizing the frustrations of others who have a different play style than you- we are listening and want to help you make AWA the best possible version that it can be. please help us help you so that your voices can be heard along side ours. That way, we can empathize with you all the more.

You have many articulate and well spoken representatives who are doing a great job at assisting us in understanding your perspective. This could be a great system that is far better than what we are seeing on the PTS, and I truly believe you can help us make it so if you work with us.

in some of the examples ive made earlier in this thread the main reason i want acct wide achievements is to make it easier to work on some of the achievements (kill/do X number of times achievements, or composite achievements)

an example i gave in my previous post was this:

there is achievement for completing both falkreath hold and bloodroot forge on vet which unlocks a dye

What do you feel like you have legitimately earned by defeating each vet dungeon independently on separate characters: the dye, the achievement badge, or both? If you could earn the dye account-wide while allowing each character to earn a separate vet dungeon clear independently, would you be equally pleased with that arrangement?

a little bit of both?

as a player i feel i completed the achievement even if i ran the dungeons on separate characters, but this kind of tracking to me could be done both at an account and on a per character level

the dye just comes along with the achievement, which is already an account wide unlock to begin with

hence my suggestion of achievements in the collection menu, this does not touch per character achievements, so while you would have earned this particular achievement at the account level, on each of those toons it would still show that they are missing the associated dungeon and could still earn that achievement individually, this way wouldnt prevent unlocks that the player technically accomplished at an account level

therefore it makes more sense to tie achievements to account, since all the rewards on live (except titles) are already account unlocks

i definitely agree that the implementation on the PTS is definitely not thought out well, as others mentioned, it does ruin character identity, but that is why we have a collection menu in the first place for all things related to our account

cosmetics and set gear are collected at the account level, i dont see why they couldnt just add another tab to this menu for account wide achievements and not touch anything else with our current achievement tab, that i kind of see as related to the character journal and eidetic memory

adding titles to be account wide doesnt bother me, its basically equivalent to equipping the vMOL skin or emperors regalia costume on a brand new character (which is something that can be done on live now)

silvereyes

SilverBride wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

...I'm also looking forward to more houses becoming available to purchase for gold, because now the number of quests I've done in each zone is going to be accumulated across characters. I've played the game, and I've done the number of quests required already, but since many were repeats on different characters, they didn't count towards unlocking the purchase ability on my main.

Housing is already account wide. Just purchase the house with the character that has already met the requirements and now all your characters have access to it. And no huge controversial game change required.

First off, don't get hung up on trying to "solve" this one particular issue. It's just an example, and one that I apparently didn't communicate well enough. I was talking about the fact that I've done the number of quests for the achievement as a player, but not on any one character.

However, I said I want to keep character tracking of achievements. I'm not defending the system as implemented on PTS. I hate it, and unlocking a few houses isn't worth the destruction the current implementation causes.

That said, I'm just giving one example of how things are more complicated than just "skipping content", because of the way that achievements and rewards are heavily intertwined. They probably shouldn't be, but they are. It's an odd situation because for the most part, the rewards are account-wide.

It's probably coloring a lot of people's expectations of what they think the benefits of AwA will be. A player can meet the spirit of the requirements for earning a reward, but because they just happened to split their playtime up between multiple characters, the system arbitrarily says that some of the player's progress towards an account-wide benefit goes to waste, while a player that spent all their playtime on a single character doing the exact same activities gets full credit.

To me, this seems like a reasonable pain point for players to express. You may not agree, and we both certainly don't like how it's been implemented, but please don't belittle other players by saying they just want to "skip actually playing the game." It's reductive and unhelpful.

Caroloces

I've commented previously on this thread expressing my consternation at this change in the game, but I have to confess, I had not gone on the PTS to test it.

Well, now I have. And I made a simple test to see how achievements felt to me in their new state. To put it into a couple of words: I'm flabbergasted and appalled. I started one character and had that toon join the undaunted. And sure enough, I got the undaunted recruit achievement. I started another character with the intention of doing the same, and much to my dismay, this brand-new character was already an undaunted recruit, without having done a single thing!

There aren't words enough for me to describe how wrong this is. Being a long-time player, I've looked on achievements as being guideposts or reference points to the game. I recall a few years back being bored after having 3 characters run through all of Tamriel. I had created more characters, but each time I would log into those new characters, I would forget where they were on zone quests and the main story, the guilds and so on. ZOS created the Zone Guides and when I saw how I could use the zone guides in tandem with achievements to monitor my progress, I fell in love with the game all over again, and I've been a committed, subbing player since then.

Achievements are like the zone guides writ large. They guide the player through this massive world with a sense of purpose and destiny. If I jump to a character that I haven't played in awhile, I can reference the zone guide to monitor my progress in whatever zone I'm in, but I can also check my character's achievements to see guild progress, dungeons, trials, PVP, and so on. There is a dynamic synergy between these two systems that allows the player to never be at a loss for things to do. Making the achievements function as they currently do on the PTS drastically cripples the game, and would do irreparable harm to the game as a whole.

One other consideration that comes into play with character-based achievements is the ease with which one can coordinate activities with other players. You want to do a dungeon or trial or other group activity? With the new achievement system, you would not have the ability to pick a character that has not yet "achieved" those particular goals because, well, at some point in time, one of your characters did the activity and now, all characters are set, whether they did the activity or not!

This is absurd. I believe that many new players coming into the game will skirt the surface of the game for awhile, and then move on, not really aware of the hidden depths that our current achievement system provides. It would make me immeasurably sad to see this occur to a game that has kept me entertained and enchanted for these past 8 years.

karthrag_inak

Khajiit has investigated changes on PTS, and any positive feelings he might once have had for this "feature" have evaporated. Please just...no. This one would not even mind if the removal of Acct-wide achievements left a hole in content provided this year. This "feature" would render the primary reasons for this one logging in to one of his 18 alts moot (the individual sense of accomplishment and progress).

Please do not add this. Or make it opt-out, maybe? This "Feature" will definitely act as an impediment to khajiit logging in - after >11k hours playing, every day since 2016, this would certainly inspire frustration-fueled vacations .

Dark_Lord_Kuro

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

There have been forum threads asking for a lot of things repeatedly over the years that haven't been implemented, especially without any indication that they actually found it feasible and an asset to the game. Something else is behind their decision to do this and I think we deserve to know what that is.

What about the ps5 player wanting their thophy back?

I don't know about ps5, but I remember seeing a thread where they lost trophies when moving over from ps4. I agree something should be done about that, but that is a separate issue that needs resolved.

Exactly what im talking about
What if it tha way they found to regrant thes trophies since as far as i know they are tied to acheivement
And they did announce both at the same time

Varana

TBH, [snip] up account-wide achievements so royally just because they couldn't figure out how to move over trophies from PS4 to 5 would be a completely new level of incompetence.

It's not even about the change itself. It's about how badly done this change is.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

silvereyes

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I don't find any feature that let's players skip over content yet still be rewarded for it as a positive change, and feel this is leading the game down a very bad path. We'd really like to know why this is happening.

• What prompted this change?
• What is ZoS tryng to accomplish with this change?
• How will this benefit the individual player?
• How will this benefit the game as a whole?

Somebody speculated that it might have to do with earning cards in the new card game. But that wouldn't make any sense, because (one would think) earned cards would automatically be account wide, too.

As for benefitting the game as a whole, well... since all we can do at this point is speculate.... perhaps they thought since replayability would be nerfed by removing the desire (and ability) to repeat quests and achievements on alts, therefore causing less players to log in, that it would ultimately help performance. Less players = less server load. And more players would be able to say "I beat the game," or "I finally accomplished everything I wanted to when my characters' achievements were combined," and it would be easier to move on to other games.

/s Yes, because I'm sure ZOS is using their limited time and resources to manipulate paying customers into leaving their game.

smh

Jaraal

silvereyes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I don't find any feature that let's players skip over content yet still be rewarded for it as a positive change, and feel this is leading the game down a very bad path. We'd really like to know why this is happening.

• What prompted this change?
• What is ZoS tryng to accomplish with this change?
• How will this benefit the individual player?
• How will this benefit the game as a whole?

Somebody speculated that it might have to do with earning cards in the new card game. But that wouldn't make any sense, because (one would think) earned cards would automatically be account wide, too.

As for benefitting the game as a whole, well... since all we can do at this point is speculate.... perhaps they thought since replayability would be nerfed by removing the desire (and ability) to repeat quests and achievements on alts, therefore causing less players to log in, that it would ultimately help performance. Less players = less server load. And more players would be able to say "I beat the game," or "I finally accomplished everything I wanted to when my characters' achievements were combined," and it would be easier to move on to other games.

/s Yes, because I'm sure ZOS is using their limited time and resources to manipulate paying customers into leaving their game.

smh

Well, cause and effect seems pretty clear. Logic dictates outcome, at least from my point of view. The information vacuum must be filled!

(And I’m glad you clarified with the /s tag. I didn’t think mine would be necessary.).

SilverBride

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

There have been forum threads asking for a lot of things repeatedly over the years that haven't been implemented, especially without any indication that they actually found it feasible and an asset to the game. Something else is behind their decision to do this and I think we deserve to know what that is.

What about the ps5 player wanting their thophy back?

I don't know about ps5, but I remember seeing a thread where they lost trophies when moving over from ps4. I agree something should be done about that, but that is a separate issue that needs resolved.

Exactly what im talking about
What if it tha way they found to regrant thes trophies since as far as i know they are tied to acheivement
And they did announce both at the same time

That is possible. Hopefully the Q & A will answer a lot of our questions.

[Edited for clarity]

peacenote

Tandor wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

There have been far fewer threads asking for account-wide achievements than there have been about e.g. auction houses, these sorts of thing tend to be cyclical and none of them tend to attract such overwhelming support as to warrant a complete change to a core system that has become well established in the game. That's why ZOS haven't introduced an auction house, and yet they have introduced account-wide achievements and titles with virtually no warning and absolutely no explanation. It's all very strange, especially as they have introduced it in a form that hasn't even gone down well with many of those who want account-wide achievements, but I can only assume from the lack of clarity and openness that this is something they introduced for their own reasons, not ours.

I do agree with this. I also think, if they were reacting to player feedback, it was feedback received through more simplified platforms, like Twitter, than anything on the forums. I say this because all of the forum threads and polls asking for AWA usually covered at least some of the nuances. For example I know I always tried to answer true to my opinion on Account Wide Achievements.

Here's a thread from 2020 which gained very little traction. And I'll quote myself to show how consistent I have been with my feedback on this feature:

peacenote wrote: »

While account-wide achievements are desirable by some, personally I don't think that "because my main hasn't been meta in both PvP and PvE so my character can't get them done" is a viable reason for wanting this. This assumes that completing all achievements is intended to be an attainable feat. I would argue that, since ZOS doesn't give us some type of mega-reward for getting all of the achievements, it isn't. We as players can make that our personal goal, but that doesn't mean it's something for which the game should adjust.

As a comparative example, many players take pride in doing "crazy" tasks, like trying to solo a world boss. Builds have been created to accomplish this. However world bosses weren't meant to be solo-able, so if this isn't possible on a particular class or play style the class shouldn't be re-vamped to do this. As another example, a group of people may decide to try and go through a trial with only healers and tanks. If they fail, the trial shouldn't be adjusted to make sure this is achievable.

Also, even if achievements were made account-wide people would still find that certain achievements will be difficult to obtain for their particular situation and other things would be requested. "This achievement is too hard to obtain on console so make it count in either normal or vet." "My work schedule makes it impossible to find a trial group so please make a solo version of this trial and make the achievements count in there." Etc. Etc. Therefore, any change made under the umbrella of "it must be possible for someone to get all of the achievements" (either on one character or one account) is problematic. This is just not a good reason to erase character-specific progress.

Personally I would not be against a class change token, though, which completionists could use as a tool for their personal goals. I also think for folks without the ability to mod (console, stadia) that having THIS functionality (https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1867-KyomasGlobalAchievements.html) in base game would be nice. I also would have no issue with with all achievement rewards being account bound and even having progress towards grouped achievements (like dungeons where it wants you to do speed, no death, and HM) be applicable across characters when it comes to awarding dyes, titles, etc. Go ahead and wear the emperor title on your new level 3 character -- I'll figure out what happened there.

That said, OP, I think even if you could change your class, you may not be happy. I say this because you seem to have a lot of other criteria for exactly HOW you obtain the achievement and what would make a class enjoyable to you. Here's what I've gleaned from your posts:

-Class must have a viable build "good"/competitive specifically in small scale PvP
-No pets (so does that mean no warden, either?)
-Must be a melee finisher (not ranged, across the map kills)
-High DPS play style ("burns through")
-Have a counter to a specific other PvP play style (SnB necro)
-Be acceptable as meta in PvE trials (so as not to be told to bring another class for optimal group setup)
-Allows you to advance in PvP avoiding leveling methods you dislike (ive grinded my way to without hiding in ballgroups or spam healing of ppl and walls, night capping etc.)

That's a lot to ask of any class, really. Especially throughout the evolution of a constantly changing MMO. Not all classes will be able to counter all other play styles in PvP AND be viable in the most competitive PvE end game groups all of the time. Not to mention that we all have to venture into less-than-ideal play situations outside of our idea of maximum fun and satisfaction to hunt certain achievements. If you hate fishing, account-wide achievements or class change tokens won't keep you from having to invest the time in fishing to get those achievements.

So, if you already have Trial HM's and Emperor on your stamsorc I'd tweak the character to focus on your main goal (getting to rank 50) but reduce some of your other requirements. If getting the achievement is the goal it can be counterproductive to have other goals that put up roadblocks to achieving it. There are lots of ways to make things fresh. Try an off-meta build. Try to be a sorc healer or become a werewolf. Join the zerg once in a while.

Being able to see achievements as per account and per character, and being able to change class for cases when you just aren't interested in a class but still want to play the character, would be ideal... but erasing character-specific progress specifically to make it more possible to get all the achievements is a slippery slope that would not be good for the game, imo.

There's this topic, too. I don't regularly go back and read threads from multiple years ago, but it's heartbreaking to read these particularly topics. ALLL of the stances, all the thoughts, all the concerns, all the ideas. They are there.

All of the current angst could have been avoided by a preemptive explanation about the direction of the game and why this is being done. We've got 46 pages and counting here but it truly isn't even necessary! Anyone who wanted to meet the needs of most players could have read through any of these historical threads, that occurred over and over again, and took them under consideration. I'm honestly not sure if it's worse that no one paid attention to this information, that it was read but not understood, or read and ignored. To announce something that CLEARLY was contentious and complex, ignore that fact completely, and to pretend it's a slam dunk by saying "happy chat"... this situation is just very sad, to me. I am a reasonable person. I can accept that ZOS wants to take the game in a different direction, even if I don't like it. What's becoming the most frustrating part of this whole situation is that it's possible ZOS knew a portion of the playerbase would see this as a huge loss, and instead of being upfront about the direction they are taking weeks to officially answer something that could have been crafted back in 2020. Or maybe 2018. Or 2016. Tell us that you understand that many of us enjoyed having each time and date logged for each thing we have achieved on each character, and why it's necessary to change direction now. Be direct. Be clear. Don't side step all of this feedback by saying "it was a popular request." We can get a detailed description about why a morph is changed and how it's performing or being used, but nothing was ready and prepared about THIS game-changing functionality? It almost feels like they knew some people wouldn't like it, but they didn't have any numbers, so they wanted to release it and see how many people had objections.

Anyway, I don't think this decision was based on forum feedback, because the forums were far from unified on this. I know I've been a subscriber since the beginning and have yet to be given a survey on this topic, so all active players weren't surveyed.

It's got to be some combination of the fact that it supports a future direction of the game, and maybe is also supported by some bad data gathering where "would you like this" with only yes or no choices was provided, leaving the respondent to imagine the parameters of the change. Given how many people do want different aspects of AWA (complete account, an overview, titles, shopping) a simple yes/no with no implementation description would likely always come out far ahead as "yes." And really, I myself might have answered yes on such a poll because I might have been picturing some of the mods we have on PC, hoping that console could get them too. Never would I have dreamed that an MMORPG that's drenched in nostalgia would ERASE historical data of active players.

AlnilamE

vingarmo wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I just thought of something.

We have a lot of very detailed posts on why we would like to retain character specific tracking, but going over the thread, I'd really love to see some more similar posts from those who want and need AWA for their play style so we can get a better idea of what you think AWA is, what your expectations are, and what you'd like to see improved. Does this version of AWA actually meet your expectations? What are you passionate about ? What aspects of the game bring you joy? We have some, but I feel like we could use a lot more specifics that will help us devise ideas.

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation- We are not your enemy, and would like to work with you to make ZOS see that a solution that works for us both is possible. This is not an us vs them situation and does not have to be a fight.

Calmly tell us what you need, what you like about the game, what could be improved. Explain your frustrations to us without minimizing the frustrations of others who have a different play style than you- we are listening and want to help you make AWA the best possible version that it can be. please help us help you so that your voices can be heard along side ours. That way, we can empathize with you all the more.

You have many articulate and well spoken representatives who are doing a great job at assisting us in understanding your perspective. This could be a great system that is far better than what we are seeing on the PTS, and I truly believe you can help us make it so if you work with us.

Good write up and hopefully it will help to address your and all other forum posts that was written to me.

2 important things I expect from this change: launching on time with update 33 and functioning as advertised (consolidation of all achievements account wide).

This is not what was advertised. Some achievements will remain character-based.

Everything on pts met my expectations.

I could still track zone quests and skyshards through zone guide.
I could still track unfinished dungeons, trials and arenas through map icons and for dlc dungeons from collection. It was never convenient to view those from achievements window. However, it might be an improvement for future update to create more convenient overview window for those.
No other relevant information was missing or deleted for me.

I confess I have not paid much attention to the zone guide until now, just looked at the summary that you see with the map. I checked it now on live, and it would require a lot of updating to be useful. It's a lot easier to look at the map now on live to see what you need in a zone, particularly if you are already in the middle of an activity.

What's missing for me from the zone guide are things that are not tied to zones, and that will be lost for alts anyway.

- Has this character got the 1000 chest achievement? I have 7 characters done, so unless ZOS now introduces a 10,000, 20,000 and a 50,000 chest achievement, my alts won't have anything to do there.

- The daedric generals and geyser bosses have been done on multiple characters, but that's another thing that will be lost for alts that have not done them yet.

I didn’t deny there are bugs, though the ones I read about wasn’t gamebreaking type of crucial. Like with all previously tested and released systems there would always be some bugs and I expect the most important ones would be fixed before live and some others in a few incrementals later.

One can only hope.

But right now, certain quests that grant reward items, like the music box from Skyrim are not repeatable on alts on PTS. So if that doesn't get fixed, people who don't complete it on multiple characters before the update won't be able to get copies after the update goes live.

Likewise, the zone guide overview is displaying delves, dolmens and world bosses as completed when you look at the map (although that may be only from outside the zone, I'll have to wait until NA is back on the PTS to confirm)

Some mechanics need a second look. For example, with delve boss spawns tied to achievements, I hope they standardize them on similar timer with other respawn times of enemies and reduce them to 1 minute. I’m already not looking forward camping Cyrodiil delves for AP buff and this change is long overdue even without AWA.

This will probably remain as is, since it's working as intended that the bosses take longer to spawn if nobody in the delve needs the achievement.

What I don’t want to see based on the feedback? Butchered feature with it’s core functionality cut in half to resemble third party addon or incentivizing more grind to a point so completing certain achievements over and over would be a must for prestige.

Why would tracking individual characters incentivize grind if the overview allows you to view account-wide progress and link all achievements from any character?

Wolfpaw

Looking forward to this, great QoL update.

Arthtur

2 weeks later and i still dont know which words should i use to explain how much i dont like the way u want to implement "Account-wide achievements"....

Oh wait i know. I will vote with my wallet.

And im not gonna lie, Im rly curious to know what will u do to get all your player back after adding... "this".

Stumo1970

I love levelling alts and getting the achievements etc with them all , this is going to be a game killer for me after many years , will be unsubbing if it goes live as is...

SilverBride

Arthtur wrote: »

And im not gonna lie, Im rly curious to know what will u do to get all your player back after adding... "this".

I feel that a lot of players will leave over this.

[Edited for clarity]

Ugh_Tech

SilverBride wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

And im not gonna lie, Im rly curious to know what will u do to get all your player back after adding... "this".

I wonder if they really don't realize just how many players will leave over this.

I'm more wondering why there's no statement from ZOS although

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This thread is being watched closely

I mean, update 33 is scheduled for March 14th. Less than four weeks to go, a community debating over AwA in general and it's current implementation on PTS including bugs with quests, zone guide etc. and no statement what ZOS is currently doing or thinking about the whole thing.

EDIT: Since the update needs to go through quality testing and all the other stuff, I think a decision has already been made and since we are paying customers I think we deserve to know which one and why.

silvereyes

With the exception of curated drops, I kind of wish ZOS had just abandoned all new content and focused on the architecture / performance rebuild last year.

I'm sure the new dungeon (I haven't tried it yet), new zones and the card game will make some people happy, but seeing the amount of work that's been put into controversial features that only appeal to a subset of the player base, I can't help but wonder where we could be now if those talented developers and artists had their efforts directed towards something that everyone agrees is needed, like performance improvements.

Edit: edited for clarity

Jaraal

Ugh_Tech wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

And im not gonna lie, Im rly curious to know what will u do to get all your player back after adding... "this".

I wonder if they really don't realize just how many players will leave over this.

I'm more wondering why there's no statement from ZOS although

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This thread is being watched closely

I mean, update 33 is scheduled for March 14th. Less than four weeks to go, a community debating over AwA in general and it's current implementation on PTS including bugs with quests, zone guide etc. and no statement what ZOS is currently doing or thinking about the whole thing.

EDIT: Since the update needs to go through quality testing and all the other stuff, I think a decision has already been made and since we are paying customers I think we deserve to know which one and why.

The decision has already been made. They are fixing the bugs so AWA can go live.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for the reports here, everyone. Just wanted to let you know we have been keeping an eye on this thread and are still working on getting some of the things called out from this thread fixed in future PTS patches.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7522786/#Comment_7522786

Wolfpaw

SilverBride wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

And im not gonna lie, Im rly curious to know what will u do to get all your player back after adding... "this".

I wonder if they really don't realize just how many players will leave over this.

I imagine they do, and it's probably not many, & those that do leave some will definitely be back.

Most casual non forum visiting players that make up the majority will not care, know til after, &/or welcome account wide achievements. Many of us that follow every pts/forums also welcome this change that has been requested for years. Email survey probably has also help push this decision.

Every in-game player I know is really looking forward to this, discords were dancing with this news

Maybe an opt out settings option will be available in a later update.