Make it account bound

Karmanorway

I would like to propose that zos makes alliance ranks and achievements Account Bound.

Why? Its because patch after patch some classes gets buffed to insanity and others is barely touched for like 5 years or more, and when they release new classes, all the other classes almost become redundant.

Reason i ask is because i want to finish all achievements, and the last few alliance ranks, without spending another 5 years killing thousands of players and spending countless of hours in all the HMtrials.

Now i get it, achievements and alliance ranks is also a symbol of experience with that particular class, but what does it matter when they keep releasing other classes that doesnt really need that much effort to become good with?

Whats your thoughts on making everything Account Bound?

VaranisArano

Unlikely to happen. Even ignoring the fact that Alliance Ranks grant skill points, what you describe as a pain point is in fact working as intended.

The whole "let's change up the meta" is designed to keep players hopping to different characters. Its horizontal progression, and its a really cheap way to drag out the process of players getting bored with the same old character.

At the same time, MMOs want to increase the time commitment players make in the game. That's part of why you have achievements like Grand Overlord that take huge amounts of gameplay. Its also deliberate - MMOs and other games who want players to spend a lot of time playing love completionists purely because those players feel the need to spend lots of time chasing grindy achievements, per character or not. It might be a QOL problem for you, but it's great for ZOS.


Since its all working as intended for ZOS, the best way to handle it is to decide on your priorities.
If you want to swap classes to chase the meta, consider not worrying about completionist achievements or settle in for the very, very long haul of only chasing those achievements when that character is meta.
If you want to chase achievements, consider that your non-meta characters are still perfectly viable with a little more effort, and just keep playing them like you're having fun.


Good luck on Grand Overlord, by the way. I recently made Legate on my MagDK who I've been playing update after update regardless of the meta.

Karmanorway

VaranisArano wrote: »

Unlikely to happen. Even ignoring the fact that Alliance Ranks grant skill points, what you describe as a pain point is in fact working as intended.

The whole "let's change up the meta" is designed to keep players hopping to different characters. Its horizontal progression, and its a really cheap way to drag out the process of players getting bored with the same old character.

At the same time, MMOs want to increase the time commitment players make in the game. That's part of why you have achievements like Grand Overlord that take huge amounts of gameplay. Its also deliberate - MMOs and other games who want players to spend a lot of time playing love completionists purely because those players feel the need to spend lots of time chasing grindy achievements, per character or not. It might be a QOL problem for you, but it's great for ZOS.


Since its all working as intended for ZOS, the best way to handle it is to decide on your priorities.
If you want to swap classes to chase the meta, consider not worrying about completionist achievements or settle in for the very, very long haul of only chasing those achievements when that character is meta.
If you want to chase achievements, consider that your non-meta characters are still perfectly viable with a little more effort, and just keep playing them like you're having fun.


Good luck on Grand Overlord, by the way. I recently made Legate on my MagDK who I've been playing update after update regardless of the meta.

Thank you, and gratz with Legate. While i do understand its profitable for ZoS, surely they must earn more in the long run If players actually stay in the game instead of quitting it, because they get worn out?

I have same as you stayed with my main stamsorc regardless of the meta, but i feel at this point it is getting to the point that i cant be competitive unless i ditch my class to literally anything else. I have Pvped with all the classes, and simply everything about them is better then my stamsorc (except maybe NB).

And it is quite demotivating to keep going when its almost like you are getting punished every patch for choosing that class 6 years ago.

I believe in the long run that this would be more profitable for zos. I would think either make thing s accountbound, OR have a class change token which gave u the ability to maybe switch class once a year or something like that to avoid FOMO

Kiyakotari

Honestly, I can only think of one really good argument in favor of this. If achievements were account wide, instead of being bound to the character you were on when you earned them, I suspect we'd have far fewer people asking for class change tokens. Most people I've spoken to who advocate for class change seem focused on not wanting to lose their achievements, and say that if it weren't for having done all their achievements on one character (usually their "main" or "achievement chaser") they'd happily just roll a new character in the class they want to change over to.

Nestor

Achievements have nothing to do with Character Progression. Are you playing the Class or the Title?

Fischblut

Whats your thoughts on making everything Account Bound?

I would absolutely love this
GW2 has account-wide achievements, titles, and PvP/WvW rank. When I play on alt characters in GW2, I know that nothing they do is wasted; every character contributes to the common goal.

And about alliance ranks in ESO... Character bound alliance rank is the reason why I still don't have Legate Black dye I actually lost all hope to ever have it. I am bored to PvP on same character for long amounts of time, so I change to other characters. They don't contribute to this common goal, and it's sad - I am demotivated, and play PvP much less

Taleof2Cities

Karmanorway wrote: »

While i do understand its profitable for ZoS, surely they must earn more in the long run If players actually stay in the game instead of quitting it, because they get worn out?

I have same as you stayed with my main stamsorc regardless of the meta, but i feel at this point it is getting to the point that i cant be competitive unless i ditch my class to literally anything else. I have Pvped with all the classes, and simply everything about them is better then my stamsorc (except maybe NB).

Is there any reason for you wanting to get Alliance Rank 50, @Karmanorway?

To be honest, there aren't a lot of rewards for that kind of grind.

A few housing furnishings unlock and the rank titles (e.g. Grand Overlord) and dyes ... but that's it.

If you're getting worn out then take a break.

Personally, I don't think Stam Sorc is lagging behind all the other classes. You may want to have one of your PvP guildies review your build and implement some better efficiencies.

But at the end of the day, if another class sounds more fun, then play what you enjoy.

Karmanorway

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Karmanorway wrote: »

While i do understand its profitable for ZoS, surely they must earn more in the long run If players actually stay in the game instead of quitting it, because they get worn out?

I have same as you stayed with my main stamsorc regardless of the meta, but i feel at this point it is getting to the point that i cant be competitive unless i ditch my class to literally anything else. I have Pvped with all the classes, and simply everything about them is better then my stamsorc (except maybe NB).

Is there any reason for you wanting to get Alliance Rank 50, @Karmanorway?

To be honest, there aren't a lot of rewards for that kind of grind.

A few housing furnishings unlock and the rank titles (e.g. Grand Overlord) and dyes ... but that's it.

If you're getting worn out then take a break.

Personally, I don't think Stam Sorc is lagging behind all the other classes. You may want to have one of your PvP guildies review your build and implement some better efficiencies.

But at the end of the day, if another class sounds more fun, then play what you enjoy.

Yes its because of the furniture, i want to complete my alliance room. But its also because im a completionist, after all the years ive been playing i think its time to finish.

I feel stamsorc is lacking a lot, yes they have sustain and they are fast, that doesnt really matter If you also do fine with sustain on the other classes, and because of the snares speed doesnt matter that much either.

I do show my builds to others and they like it, im just looking for a build that burns through a SnB necros built in 30% damage reduction then im happy 😂

Karmanorway

Nestor wrote: »

Achievements have nothing to do with Character Progression. Are you playing the Class or the Title?

I dont really care about titles, i just want all the achievements. I just mentioned character progression because titles/skins etc and especially alliance rank also shows others how experienced you are with that particular class.

Also being stuck with the same class for years gets boring after a while, especially when there is never really any changes made to it year after year.

idk

Why would Zos consider such an idea when they recently added the ability to purchase unlocking the entire AvA skill lines via a crown store purchase. There are other issues with the idea but I do not see a reason to bring them up because it really seems like a non-starter. No offense to the OP, just pointing out the reality of things.

Edit: Even with what OP mentions, having to earn access to skills on a new class, Zos made it super easy and fast years ago when they significantly reduced the AP cost per rank and greatly increased how much AP we earn.

Karmanorway

idk wrote: »

Why would Zos consider such an idea when they recently added the ability to purchase unlocking the entire AvA skill lines via a crown store purchase. There are other issues with the idea but I do not see a reason to bring them up because it really seems like a non-starter. No offense to the OP, just pointing out the reality of things.

Edit: Even with what OP mentions, having to earn access to skills on a new class, Zos made it super easy and fast years ago when they significantly reduced the AP cost per rank and greatly increased how much AP we earn.

Yes sure leveling up a new character is fast and easy i know. Hitting Grand Overlord is not, getting emp again is not or getting all the HM trials achievements is also a pain in the Ass.

Im now Legate on my stamsorc, which ive grinded my way to without hiding in ballgroups or spam healing of ppl and walls, night capping etc. Now this is a problem for me because i would have to grind my way there all over in Laggydill.

In real life im a businessowner so naturaly i dont got time for that, i really just want to finish my character completely and take a break, but we are at a point in the game where If you dont play this or that you are not good enough for us in this trial, or if you dont play this or that you are not good enough for this small scale group because you cant contribute with enough buffs or debuffs etc.

So whats a man to do?

Yea i chose stamsorc 5 years ago (im so very sorry) , had i known the class would be untouched and forgotten the next 5 years i wouldnt have choosen it. And I still got some last stuff and achievements i want to conquer, but since what i play is so trash, im being told to bring something else lol

A class change token or making everything accountbound would solve my problems.

Jaimeh

Karmanorway wrote: »

Now i get it, achievements and alliance ranks is also a symbol of experience with that particular class, but what does it matter when they keep releasing other classes that doesnt really need that much effort to become good with?

I'm an alt-o-holic, and as much as something like this would be in my interest (for example, I'll never get the achieves for DB/TG on my main because her background wouldn't fit with joining these two guilds, so I could only get them on alts), I'd be against it, for the exact reasons in the OP's quote above. I feel every title earned on an alt is an accomplishment, and reflects progression with that character, universal achievements would take that away.

LanteanPegasus

Is it a problem of the StamSorc, or of the Sorcerer as a whole ? (No PvPer here, so excuse the question.)

If MagSorc works better, you could keep the character, level up all the skills needed (you should have more than enough skillpoints when you have played the character for years), and change the attributes (and skill morphs, if necessary) + gear.
That way you could hopefully be better suited to the competition again without having to start over and ditch your achievements. And if the meta makes StamSorc more viable again, you could just go back.

Taunky

First, I want to see Riding Skill account bound.

Karmanorway

LanteanPegasus wrote: »

Is it a problem of the StamSorc, or of the Sorcerer as a whole ? (No PvPer here, so excuse the question.)

If MagSorc works better, you could keep the character, level up all the skills needed (you should have more than enough skillpoints when you have played the character for years), and change the attributes (and skill morphs, if necessary) + gear.
That way you could hopefully be better suited to the competition again without having to start over and ditch your achievements. And if the meta makes StamSorc more viable again, you could just go back.

I personally think its stamsorc only If we are talking PvP. I play all classes and compared to most of them, stamsorc is at a disadvantage. But again this is just my personal opinion and experience.

I used to play magsorc a long time ago, but i didnt like all this Pet stuff, or oneshotting other players in the back from the other side of the map, it just isnt my playstyle. When i PvP i want to best my enemies with honor 🤷‍♂️

Karmanorway

Taunky wrote: »

First, I want to see Riding Skill account bound.

Good point, we should have that too^

AlnilamE

I would not be opposed to having an "Overview" tab for achievements, as long as each individual character still gets to see what they have achieved and what they haven't.

But no, I don't want everything account bound, even if I PvP with about 5 characters and getting to Grand Overlord is going to take a while.

Fischblut wrote: »

Whats your thoughts on making everything Account Bound?

I would absolutely love this
GW2 has account-wide achievements, titles, and PvP/WvW rank. When I play on alt characters in GW2, I know that nothing they do is wasted; every character contributes to the common goal.

And about alliance ranks in ESO... Character bound alliance rank is the reason why I still don't have Legate Black dye I actually lost all hope to ever have it. I am bored to PvP on same character for long amounts of time, so I change to other characters. They don't contribute to this common goal, and it's sad - I am demotivated, and play PvP much less

And achievements in GW2 are 100x grindier than in ESO for that very reason. AND each character has to complete the map by themselves.

Seriously, every time I look at achievements in GW2 I stop playing for 6 months.

Tandor

No thanks. I play many characters and they're all different, so not only do I not want one character benefiting from another character's achievement, but if every character gained achievements automatically because they were account-wide then that would substantially reduce the whole point of playing multiple characters. I don't play a main plus alts, I play individual characters that are all equal. At the moment there is a fair balance between things that are account-wide and others that are character-specific and I hope that doesn't change.

I do feel that the term "completionist" gets over-used and misrepresented. How can someone claim to be a completionist but then want the rules changed partway through because he doesn't feel like completing everything after all?

Ectheliontnacil

I agree with the OP. I get that ZOS wants you to play more. But honestly I don't think many people play eso to hunt down achievements. What actually keeps you playing is the combat system and the community.
Most people need to change things up every once in a while and try out a new class because after a certain amount of time a certain playstyle may become boring and combat balance sometimes make classes completely unviable. So essentially the game incentivises you to change classes but at the same time discourages you from doing so. Because anyone who would like to get even close to 100% achievement points, needs to commit to playing one character for probably ~200 days (in game).

Things like Grand Overlord, Master Angler, and the 1 mil fence sold achievement etc. take weeks to months of ingame time to achieve. And others like Emperor or the hardest PvE achievements may be virtually impossible to get due to all campaigns being controlled by hostile alliances or the leaderboards being dominated by the same two players and due to class balance respectively.
That's why I never even bothered trying to farm achievements. But I don't think ZOS will ever change the system.

Taleof2Cities

Tandor wrote: »

I do feel that the term "completionist" gets over-used and misrepresented. How can someone claim to be a completionist but then want the rules changed partway through because he doesn't feel like completing everything after all?

You may be on to something, @Tandor.

Completionism and MMOs don't mix together very well by nature.

Probably why we get those empty declarations of "I completed it!" when certain hyperactive players finish the main quest each new release.

peacenote

While account-wide achievements are desirable by some, personally I don't think that "because my main hasn't been meta in both PvP and PvE so my character can't get them done" is a viable reason for wanting this. This assumes that completing all achievements is intended to be an attainable feat. I would argue that, since ZOS doesn't give us some type of mega-reward for getting all of the achievements, it isn't. We as players can make that our personal goal, but that doesn't mean it's something for which the game should adjust.

As a comparative example, many players take pride in doing "crazy" tasks, like trying to solo a world boss. Builds have been created to accomplish this. However world bosses weren't meant to be solo-able, so if this isn't possible on a particular class or play style the class shouldn't be re-vamped to do this. As another example, a group of people may decide to try and go through a trial with only healers and tanks. If they fail, the trial shouldn't be adjusted to make sure this is achievable.

Also, even if achievements were made account-wide people would still find that certain achievements will be difficult to obtain for their particular situation and other things would be requested. "This achievement is too hard to obtain on console so make it count in either normal or vet." "My work schedule makes it impossible to find a trial group so please make a solo version of this trial and make the achievements count in there." Etc. Etc. Therefore, any change made under the umbrella of "it must be possible for someone to get all of the achievements" (either on one character or one account) is problematic. This is just not a good reason to erase character-specific progress.

Personally I would not be against a class change token, though, which completionists could use as a tool for their personal goals. I also think for folks without the ability to mod (console, stadia) that having THIS functionality (https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1867-KyomasGlobalAchievements.html) in base game would be nice. I also would have no issue with with all achievement rewards being account bound and even having progress towards grouped achievements (like dungeons where it wants you to do speed, no death, and HM) be applicable across characters when it comes to awarding dyes, titles, etc. Go ahead and wear the emperor title on your new level 3 character -- I'll figure out what happened there.

That said, OP, I think even if you could change your class, you may not be happy. I say this because you seem to have a lot of other criteria for exactly HOW you obtain the achievement and what would make a class enjoyable to you. Here's what I've gleaned from your posts:

-Class must have a viable build "good"/competitive specifically in small scale PvP
-No pets (so does that mean no warden, either?)
-Must be a melee finisher (not ranged, across the map kills)
-High DPS play style ("burns through")
-Have a counter to a specific other PvP play style (SnB necro)
-Be acceptable as meta in PvE trials (so as not to be told to bring another class for optimal group setup)
-Allows you to advance in PvP avoiding leveling methods you dislike (ive grinded my way to without hiding in ballgroups or spam healing of ppl and walls, night capping etc.)

That's a lot to ask of any class, really. Especially throughout the evolution of a constantly changing MMO. Not all classes will be able to counter all other play styles in PvP AND be viable in the most competitive PvE end game groups all of the time. Not to mention that we all have to venture into less-than-ideal play situations outside of our idea of maximum fun and satisfaction to hunt certain achievements. If you hate fishing, account-wide achievements or class change tokens won't keep you from having to invest the time in fishing to get those achievements.

So, if you already have Trial HM's and Emperor on your stamsorc I'd tweak the character to focus on your main goal (getting to rank 50) but reduce some of your other requirements. If getting the achievement is the goal it can be counterproductive to have other goals that put up roadblocks to achieving it. There are lots of ways to make things fresh. Try an off-meta build. Try to be a sorc healer or become a werewolf. Join the zerg once in a while.

Being able to see achievements as per account and per character, and being able to change class for cases when you just aren't interested in a class but still want to play the character, would be ideal... but erasing character-specific progress specifically to make it more possible to get all the achievements is a slippery slope that would not be good for the game, imo.