PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

silvereyes

I went through and evaluated every achievement on PTS. Here are my opinions on each classification.

Achievements I'm fine with being account-wide

• RNG collections. Things like catching rare fish, collecting monster trophies, collecting all the motifs. Some may think of them as objectives, but there's too much randomness for me to think of them that way. Motifs specifically have a way to track them in the lore book section.
• Grindy lists. Things like slaying a large number of enemies of a particular type, doing a large number of dailies, doing a large number of quests for a zone to unlock housing. I would make an exception for things like mass murderer that have morality implications (see the next section below).
• Funny surprising achievements, like falling off a cliff in Orsinium or being slaughterfished. The surprise is gone after the first time.
• Incredibly easy achievements. Things you can get just by entering a house, joining a guild, putting on some gear or assigning CP are really mostly for new players. I'm fine with these being account wide.
• Most PvP achievements. Most of these would fall into the grindy list category, with some exceptions below. Regarding Alliance Rank achievements, since Alliance Rank itself is tracked separately, I don't see an issue with the badges being account-wide.
• Things that unlock achievement furniture. I don't see how achievement furniture could be account-wide without tracking the achievements account-wide. Cyrodiil furniture should also be unlocked by achievements, not Alliance Rank. Exploration and story quest progression is tracked pretty well in the zone guide, so I don't think achievements are needed to track that. However, NPC dialog bugs and quest progression bugs need to be addressed.
• Prologue quests. You can see if you've done these by looking in the Crown Store and Journal
• Companion achievements. Raport is tracked at the character level still, so no issue here.

Achievements I think should be changed back to character-specific

I think of the following as objectives that should be moved back to being character specific. They are check lists that can be accomplished on every zone or dungeon, or on every skill tree, without RNG mechanics or what I consider to be excessive grind.

• Tracking which bosses have been killed in public and instanced dungeons, delves and overworld zones (e.g. Vanquisher / Conqueror).
• Tracking which world events have been completed in a zone. This doesn't need to be an achievement, if zone guide were fixed. But there needs to be a way to track it.
• Dungeon and arena challenges that can be completed on every dungeon or arena. Things like defeating a dungeon or arena on veteran level, hard mode, no-death, speed runs, trifectas. The titles can be account-wide to show that you've done it before no matter which character you are logged in on, but there should still be a way to track individual character progression through those challenges.
• PvP mode challenges, like finishing a BG deathmatch with a certain K/D ratio, or siezing four capture points without dying in Crazy King.
• Skill line reputation. Undaunted, Scrying and Excavation leveling should be no harder on a new character.
• Mage's Guild and Fighter's Guild story quests progress.
• Museum quests. Things like Precursor, Bard's College and the other Chapters' artifacts quests should only display the pieces collected on that character, and should be repeatable.
• Skyshard hunters. There's really very little reason to have these account-wide, and they are a nice way to track Skyshards in a central location, without needing to visit every zone's guide.
• Justice system, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood achievements. Even though some of these are grindy lists, they are the closest thing that ESO has to a morality system, and the presence or absence of these achievements can have profound impact on role-playing.
• Vampire / Werewolf achievements. I don't see why someone needs these globally, and they also have an impact on role-playing.
• Crafter progression, like traits researched, alchemy reagents learned, or which writ certifications a character has.

Achievements I'm ambivalent about one way or another

• Festival achievements. Personally, I put those more into the grind category, but I appreciate people disagree. I'd be fine with those remaining character specific.

Jaraal

Millions of people have enjoyed playing the game the way it is for eight years. Why change horses in mid-stream? If ZOS wants to make a game with account wide achievements, then make a new one with that metric, and leave the game we've put so much time and effort into with certain expectations alone. Let people decide if that's the type of game they want to play, rather than forcing something completely different and unexpected on an existing game.

ArchangelIsraphel

I like your list, silvereyes. Some I don't nessicarily agree with but they would be compromises I'm willing to make if I could get something like a fishing tracker even if the badge itself is account wide. A tracker for some of those grindy achievements wouldn't interfere I think so long as it wasn't linked to the achievement itself, that way people wouldn't feel pressured to complete it and it could just be a handy tool. It could even be an optional tool that could be toggled on or off in the interface so it isn't bothersome to those that don't want it. We might have to hope someone in the modding community makes one. Ideally I'd like such a tool to include dates of completion.

The character specific list looks great and would definitely go far to alleviate a lot of what the current implementation of AWA takes away, at least from my perspective.

I'm in the camp of wanting festival stuff to remain character specific, mostly for sentimental reasons as it's my way of marking another year played in eso over the holidays. But perhaps it could be tracked through a toggle too, which includes dates.

silvereyes

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I like your list, silvereyes. Some I don't nessicarily agree with but they would be compromises I'm willing to make if I could get something like a fishing tracker even if the badge itself is account wide. A tracker for some of those grindy achievements wouldn't interfere I think so long as it wasn't linked to the achievement itself, that way people wouldn't feel pressured to complete it and it could just be a handy tool. It could even be an optional tool that could be toggled on or off in the interface so it isn't bothersome to those that don't want it. We might have to hope someone in the modding community makes one. Ideally I'd like such a tool to include dates of completion.

The character specific list looks great and would definitely go far to alleviate a lot of what the current implementation of AWA takes away, at least from my perspective.

I'm in the camp of wanting festival stuff to remain character specific, mostly for sentimental reasons as it's my way of marking another year played in eso over the holidays. But perhaps it could be tracked through a toggle too, which includes dates.

Yeah, the RNG and grindy trackers were hard for me to categorize, because I know some people use them like objectives. Fishing especially is in kind of a grey area for me, because it's got a distinct list of objectives. However, I know that people hate RNG, and accumulating progress globally to reduce RNG grind would be a boon for them.

Personally, I think Master Angler achievements could be character specific if the RNG aspects were reduced. Perhaps make it curated per character, so that you only get drops you haven't collected yet?

Edit: To riff on that idea a bit, museum quests, monster trophy collections and rare fish collections could all go into a new Character Collections tracker, and that could be used to curate drops similar to the sticker book.

Edit 2: on second thought, I don’t know if curating monster trophy collections would work, since they all drop from specific mob types.

ArchangelIsraphel

silvereyes wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I like your list, silvereyes. Some I don't nessicarily agree with but they would be compromises I'm willing to make if I could get something like a fishing tracker even if the badge itself is account wide. A tracker for some of those grindy achievements wouldn't interfere I think so long as it wasn't linked to the achievement itself, that way people wouldn't feel pressured to complete it and it could just be a handy tool. It could even be an optional tool that could be toggled on or off in the interface so it isn't bothersome to those that don't want it. We might have to hope someone in the modding community makes one. Ideally I'd like such a tool to include dates of completion.

The character specific list looks great and would definitely go far to alleviate a lot of what the current implementation of AWA takes away, at least from my perspective.

I'm in the camp of wanting festival stuff to remain character specific, mostly for sentimental reasons as it's my way of marking another year played in eso over the holidays. But perhaps it could be tracked through a toggle too, which includes dates.

Yeah, the RNG and grindy trackers were hard for me to categorize, because I know some people use them like objectives. Fishing especially is in kind of a grey area for me, because it's got a distinct list of objectives. However, I know that people hate RNG, and accumulating progress globally to reduce RNG grind would be a boon for them.

Personally, I think Master Angler achievements could be character specific if the RNG aspects were reduced. Perhaps make it curated per character, so that you only get drops you haven't collected yet?

Edit: To riff on that idea a bit, museum quests, monster trophy collections and rare fish collections could all go into a new Character Collections tracker, and that could be used to curate drops similar to the sticker book.

Edit 2: on second thought, I don’t know if curating monster trophy collections would work, since they all drop from specific mob types.

Totally understandable, it's definitely a gray area. I like the idea of a curated character collections tracker being added to alleviate the rng so many dislike. The only problem that I see there is that people might feel it reduces the prestige of master angler, but for me, I personally wouldn't mind since it would give me that quest-like functionality I'm seeking per character. Stardew valley (a single player farming rpg) actually has a similar function and it works nicely for each separate character you make. It has AWA through steam along side independent character collection tracking. It would be great to have this function as a page in the quest journal so it could be used at a glance just like achievements are now.

Lonestryder

I have to add my voice in support of a system that includes both AWA AND individually-tracked achievements. Why does it have to be one or the other?

And I must agree that thinking through the impact the current implementation has on the way I play the game is demotivating.

kind_hero

I play my main character since 2014.

So, having 99.9% of the map explored, 99% of quests done, 99% bosses killed (in public dungeons, delves and 4 mans), most of the collections completed, etc, will kill a lot of the fun in replaying the content with my alts. I read many many posts in this thread, and paid attention to those favoring AwA. (I also would like a system such as proposed by @silvereyes at post #1294). BTW, the reason I leave some easy things unfinished for my main is exactly to get an achievement done when I am bored, because if I complete everything, the game will feel spent to me.

For many of us achievements are a way of tracking what a char has done, and this is quite the case during zone quest progression, public dungeon bosses, and most of the meta achievements. With this system, there is no motivation for me to create a new alt or replay content with the existing alts, besides just redoing stuff to remember quests that I did years ago. Most quests are not that interesting, to be honest, even though there is a memorable one from now and then. So, doing that again without any feeling of progression, because "the player" has already achieved that is very bad for replay-ability.

Who thought this change is good for replaying content? Do devs want to refresh their player base, to make the long time fans leave, and make room for new players who come for the year long chapter scheme? Because most of the long time players are criticizing this system, it has gotten stale. But anyway... There should be a different approach to raiding achievements, like trifectas, and things that require so much complicated teamwork. Maybe. But wiping out character progression for reasons yet unknown, looks like a very bad move.

For me this change will come with a sort of a relief, I can let go of my alts and just burn the new chapter, after which I can focus on other games or just get out more.

silvereyes

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I like your list, silvereyes. Some I don't nessicarily agree with but they would be compromises I'm willing to make if I could get something like a fishing tracker even if the badge itself is account wide. A tracker for some of those grindy achievements wouldn't interfere I think so long as it wasn't linked to the achievement itself, that way people wouldn't feel pressured to complete it and it could just be a handy tool. It could even be an optional tool that could be toggled on or off in the interface so it isn't bothersome to those that don't want it. We might have to hope someone in the modding community makes one. Ideally I'd like such a tool to include dates of completion.

The character specific list looks great and would definitely go far to alleviate a lot of what the current implementation of AWA takes away, at least from my perspective.

I'm in the camp of wanting festival stuff to remain character specific, mostly for sentimental reasons as it's my way of marking another year played in eso over the holidays. But perhaps it could be tracked through a toggle too, which includes dates.

Yeah, the RNG and grindy trackers were hard for me to categorize, because I know some people use them like objectives. Fishing especially is in kind of a grey area for me, because it's got a distinct list of objectives. However, I know that people hate RNG, and accumulating progress globally to reduce RNG grind would be a boon for them.

Personally, I think Master Angler achievements could be character specific if the RNG aspects were reduced. Perhaps make it curated per character, so that you only get drops you haven't collected yet?

Edit: To riff on that idea a bit, museum quests, monster trophy collections and rare fish collections could all go into a new Character Collections tracker, and that could be used to curate drops similar to the sticker book.

Edit 2: on second thought, I don’t know if curating monster trophy collections would work, since they all drop from specific mob types.

Totally understandable, it's definitely a gray area. I like the idea of a curated character collections tracker being added to alleviate the rng so many dislike. The only problem that I see there is that people might feel it reduces the prestige of master angler

A legitimate concern, but unfortunately, there is always going to be a certain tension between accessibility and prestige - we can't have both. Right now it's probably so prestigious that it might as well not exist for most players. I think it's probably fine to make it a bit more accessible, as long as it's not watered down to complete easy mode. Similar to how vMA is far easier with save points than it used to be before them, but it's still quite challenging the first several times. If anyone asks, you can always respond with:

wolfie1.0.

vingarmo wrote: »

I’m only leaving my feedback here, because of unjustified outcry about what was supposed to be a good change. Remember, most people are happy with account wide achievements as it was asked for years and there is barely any reason to post happy feedback or keep track of this thread at all. Don’t let few people [snip] cancel something that was supposed to be huge improvement for the community.

For me as a player with 18 characters of different classes, builds and specializations this change is amazing. I’ve always played the ones I enjoyed the most at the time and didn’t fixate on a single character with one major downside of it being: I was missing on a lot of achievements I’d have done long time ago if I played on 1 character only and it did frustrate me a bit. In fact, none of my characters even has less than 10k achievement points, because I always did something different on each one but chasing something grindy was much harder than for those who play on single character. The examples of those could include: compete zone dailies 30 times, slayer ones with the most annoying one: kill 100 flame colossuses in CoA2 (with only 4 in the whole dungeon and 3 of them always skipped), trophies, kill 500 enemy players on flag in bg, etc. Now on PTS most of them are completed for me and it’s a huge improvement because, frankly, I don’t think they were balanced correctly from the start. After this update goes live I wouldn’t feel bad about playing different characters and would just log on whatever class I want, maybe even try to complete something new with niche achievements being easier to track. No negative impact here whatsoever.

I don’t feel bad about account wide titles and I have 15 spirit slayers, flawless conqueror, several grand overlords, former emperors, etc. I did them because I enjoyed the gameplay behind those titles and account wide achievements do not diminish any of them for me. If I’d have more characters I would do some of them again just for fun. Sorry, but if you grinded several master anglers, murkmire preppers, godslayers, tamriel heroes or whatever while hating your life the problem isn’t in account wide achievements and it is not a valid reason why it shouldn’t be implemented.

A lot of misinformation was posted here about non-repeatable story quests, missable skillpoints, no options to track progress etc. You still have zone guide with all important information, zone quests and skyshards tracked per character, dungeon and trials still grayed out if you haven’t done them and you can do them again on different characters, etc. No gamebreaking changes here either, yet some people act like ZOS wiped all their progress and prevent them from replaying anything before even testing it themselves. Most of the negative responses could be solved with better communication about the change, hopefully your Q&A address them well.

While it wasn’t communicated properly I suppose there is implication that this was partly done to improve performance. Maybe with much less character unique data there would be a room for more character slots or even new class in the future. Good. It’s about time to add more.

Not to mention that every other MMO I’ve played had account wide achievements. The current in-game implementation of achievements in ESO is most user unfriendly system I’ve ever seen.

Overall, it’s a wonderful change for the game [snip]. I hope it will go live as it is, with minor bug fixes of course. And if one of the most exiting changes in a while would be canceled because of some petty reasons that barely have any common sense it would be a huge reputation blow.

[edited to remove baiting comments]

Some of what you said is in fact misinformation. There are documented broken quests, npc interactions, and many other issues with the system zos has put in place with very little reassuance that these will be fixed. There is also no proof or comment from ZOS that this is performance related. Until they have an official statement indicating that it is, saying that is the case is misinformation.

In addition for years ZOS leaned heavily on achievements for character progression. The zone guides are incomplete and showing items that are not completed on your character as completed.

As far as the community and wanting this? Maybe your right it has been talked about for years. However, my counter to that is that ZOS gave no notice that they were even considering it, not at least in any official statement I can find. Nor did they indicate that they were going to do so in this manner. If they had given us more notice then there very likely would have been more outcry and push back on the idea.

We didn't have incentive until now. No warning until now. Which is why we are vocal now

most of us here are not opposed to AwA. We are instead wanting to preserve what we have had for years. I have 4 characters that grinded their way to vet 16 with very very different methods and paths. I will lose the uniqueness of those characters. I have another that only killed NPCs ever on its way. Another that was raised to cp by only crafting quests. All of that is lost. The uniqueness gone.

If we get assurances from zos that my characters personalized achievements are still tracked in the back end, they fix the know questing and npc interactions bugs, they fix the zone guide completion, And they give me a more robust questing/character progression feature.

Then I will stop pushing back on this. Until then I will be noisy about it.

wolfie1.0.

silvereyes wrote: »

I went through and evaluated every achievement on PTS. Here are my opinions on each classification.

Achievements I'm fine with being account-wide

• RNG collections. Things like catching rare fish, collecting monster trophies, collecting all the motifs. Some may think of them as objectives, but there's too much randomness for me to think of them that way. Motifs specifically have a way to track them in the lore book section.
• Grindy lists. Things like slaying a large number of enemies of a particular type, doing a large number of dailies, doing a large number of quests for a zone to unlock housing. I would make an exception for things like mass murderer that have morality implications (see the next section below).
• Funny surprising achievements, like falling off a cliff in Orsinium or being slaughterfished. The surprise is gone after the first time.
• Incredibly easy achievements. Things you can get just by entering a house, joining a guild, putting on some gear or assigning CP are really mostly for new players. I'm fine with these being account wide.
• Most PvP achievements. Most of these would fall into the grindy list category, with some exceptions below. Regarding Alliance Rank achievements, since Alliance Rank itself is tracked separately, I don't see an issue with the badges being account-wide.
• Things that unlock achievement furniture. I don't see how achievement furniture could be account-wide without tracking the achievements account-wide. Cyrodiil furniture should also be unlocked by achievements, not Alliance Rank. Exploration and story quest progression is tracked pretty well in the zone guide, so I don't think achievements are needed to track that. However, NPC dialog bugs and quest progression bugs need to be addressed.
• Prologue quests. You can see if you've done these by looking in the Crown Store and Journal
• Companion achievements. Raport is tracked at the character level still, so no issue here.

Achievements I think should be changed back to character-specific

I think of the following as objectives that should be moved back to being character specific. They are check lists that can be accomplished on every zone or dungeon, or on every skill tree, without RNG mechanics or what I consider to be excessive grind.

• Tracking which bosses have been killed in public and instanced dungeons, delves and overworld zones (e.g. Vanquisher / Conqueror).
• Tracking which world events have been completed in a zone. This doesn't need to be an achievement, if zone guide were fixed. But there needs to be a way to track it.
• Dungeon and arena challenges that can be completed on every dungeon or arena. Things like defeating a dungeon or arena on veteran level, hard mode, no-death, speed runs, trifectas. The titles can be account-wide to show that you've done it before no matter which character you are logged in on, but there should still be a way to track individual character progression through those challenges.
• PvP mode challenges, like finishing a BG deathmatch with a certain K/D ratio, or siezing four capture points without dying in Crazy King.
• Skill line reputation. Undaunted, Scrying and Excavation leveling should be no harder on a new character.
• Mage's Guild and Fighter's Guild story quests progress.
• Museum quests. Things like Precursor, Bard's College and the other Chapters' artifacts quests should only display the pieces collected on that character, and should be repeatable.
• Skyshard hunters. There's really very little reason to have these account-wide, and they are a nice way to track Skyshards in a central location, without needing to visit every zone's guide.
• Justice system, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood achievements. Even though some of these are grindy lists, they are the closest thing that ESO has to a morality system, and the presence or absence of these achievements can have profound impact on role-playing.
• Vampire / Werewolf achievements. I don't see why someone needs these globally, and they also have an impact on role-playing.
• Crafter progression, like traits researched, alchemy reagents learned, or which writ certifications a character has.

Achievements I'm ambivalent about one way or another

• Festival achievements. Personally, I put those more into the grind category, but I appreciate people disagree. I'd be fine with those remaining character specific.

I would be happy with this. And could accept it. Festival achievements probably could go account wide.

I still would like a progress journal.

ArchangelIsraphel

silvereyes wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I like your list, silvereyes. Some I don't nessicarily agree with but they would be compromises I'm willing to make if I could get something like a fishing tracker even if the badge itself is account wide. A tracker for some of those grindy achievements wouldn't interfere I think so long as it wasn't linked to the achievement itself, that way people wouldn't feel pressured to complete it and it could just be a handy tool. It could even be an optional tool that could be toggled on or off in the interface so it isn't bothersome to those that don't want it. We might have to hope someone in the modding community makes one. Ideally I'd like such a tool to include dates of completion.

The character specific list looks great and would definitely go far to alleviate a lot of what the current implementation of AWA takes away, at least from my perspective.

I'm in the camp of wanting festival stuff to remain character specific, mostly for sentimental reasons as it's my way of marking another year played in eso over the holidays. But perhaps it could be tracked through a toggle too, which includes dates.

Yeah, the RNG and grindy trackers were hard for me to categorize, because I know some people use them like objectives. Fishing especially is in kind of a grey area for me, because it's got a distinct list of objectives. However, I know that people hate RNG, and accumulating progress globally to reduce RNG grind would be a boon for them.

Personally, I think Master Angler achievements could be character specific if the RNG aspects were reduced. Perhaps make it curated per character, so that you only get drops you haven't collected yet?

Edit: To riff on that idea a bit, museum quests, monster trophy collections and rare fish collections could all go into a new Character Collections tracker, and that could be used to curate drops similar to the sticker book.

Edit 2: on second thought, I don’t know if curating monster trophy collections would work, since they all drop from specific mob types.

Totally understandable, it's definitely a gray area. I like the idea of a curated character collections tracker being added to alleviate the rng so many dislike. The only problem that I see there is that people might feel it reduces the prestige of master angler

A legitimate concern, but unfortunately, there is always going to be a certain tension between accessibility and prestige - we can't have both. Right now it's probably so prestigious that it might as well not exist for most players. I think it's probably fine to make it a bit more accessible, as long as it's not watered down to complete easy mode. Similar to how vMA is far easier with save points than it used to be before them, but it's still quite challenging the first several times. If anyone asks, you can always respond with:

Got a good laugh out of that meme xD but again I agree. Since it's an achievement I like to pursue to chill out on a character the curating would likely make it all the more relaxing, with the bonus of it being more accessible to players who aren't comfortable fishing in pvp zones. Having it curated would mean they could earn those fish a bit faster, even if they only want to do it once for the AWA badge.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

SilverBride wrote: »

vingarmo wrote: »

I’m only leaving my feedback here, because of unjustified outcry about what was supposed to be a good change. Remember, most people are happy with account wide achievements as it was asked for years and there is barely any reason to post happy feedback or keep track of this thread at all. Don’t let few people [snip] cancel something that was supposed to be huge improvement for the community.

That is an assumption and opinion, not a fact. From what I have seen and read and heard from others in game is that most are very unhappy with this change, and rightfully so.

And i know a bunch, particulary from my few guild that love it so i guess arguing on wich side as the majority is pointless

Also people that didnt want it were monstly absent in the thread asking for it , mostly because they were content with the actual system and reverse might be true on the pts, those who are content with the change mostly wont participate in thread asking the removal, postponing or to reduce the amount of stuff included in the QoL feature

Jaraal

Yeah I'm buying up all the cheap perfect roe right now, because the price will skyrocket once this change goes through and there's no achievement motivation for people to fish any more. And there are a lot of other things that achievements drive people to acquire that will soon generate an artificially high demand (and price.)

silvereyes

Cross posting this from the bug reports thread.

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

tim77 wrote: »

Precursor is finished as soon as you get the quest for it (notice, there is a pre-quest you have to do to get the real one)


edit:
We missed a huge chance here to make "Elderic memories" accountwide (not mage guild books, just the notes and memories!), which would fix 90% of the bugged books in the game ("You missed to read that book at a specific quest-step? Just read it with another char") for the past, the present and all the future.
The last patches didnt made any bugfixes for the books, but each story dlc implements new bugged books. Each single one.
I believe not one single player would dislike accountwide memories and notes and people are asking for it for the same long time as for achievments.
Yet you leave the books alone and implement only achievments in such a bad way, that even most of the people who likes it, have complaints/concerns.

Please rethink about it a bit more before you implement them like on pts shown right now. I'm afraid it will open pandoras box, and there is not Dr. Who inside this time, but many bugs we dont think of right now and it will hunt us a long time, if not forever (see bugged memories).

Does this mean every one of our characters can get a Precursor furnishing or that we can only get it once? I’d be perfectly fine finding all the parts just one time, and then from then on every time one of my alts gets that quest they automatically finish it and get the reward. Same for that music box quest. And I agree with the part about the other books, not the mage ones, being accountwide, that’s a great idea.

You can't get more than one music box on the PTS right now. So if you want multiple music boxes, you have to start hunting for them now before the update drops. Otherwise, your alts will be locked out of the quest once the game detects you have finished the quest once before on another character.

I just tested this, and there is a way to get multiple music boxes, but only if you have already started the quest on multiple characters before turning it in for the reward.

Test conditions:
1. 1 character did the opening quest to get the lute, and turned in all but one of the other instruments.
2. 1 character did the opening quest to get the lute, and turned in the one remaining instrument.
3. 1 character only did the opening quest to get the lute.
4. 1 character collected none and did not start the quest.

Results:

• Characters 1, 2, and 3 were all able to do the final quest to place handbills and then receive music boxes
  
  
  
• Character 4 was not able to start the quest or get any music box.
  

Tandor

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

vingarmo wrote: »

I’m only leaving my feedback here, because of unjustified outcry about what was supposed to be a good change. Remember, most people are happy with account wide achievements as it was asked for years and there is barely any reason to post happy feedback or keep track of this thread at all. Don’t let few people [snip] cancel something that was supposed to be huge improvement for the community.

That is an assumption and opinion, not a fact. From what I have seen and read and heard from others in game is that most are very unhappy with this change, and rightfully so.

And i know a bunch, parti ulary from my few guild that love it so i guess arguing on wich side as the majority is pointless

I agree that it is pretty pointless generally, except that in this case the complaint isn't simply by character-based supporters, it includes a lot of players who want account-wide achievements but who don't like the way it is implemented on the PTS.

So I guess the real question is this: How many of your guild members who love it as it is have actually tested it thoroughly on the PTS? We easily know from following this thread since its inception the number of commenters up until now who love the way the change has been implemented, are there any from your guilds apart from you? Or do you mean that your guild members love the concept of account-wide achievements in principle but haven't actually tested it in practice on the PTS?

I totally get that a lot of players love the idea of account-wide achievements in principle, that's never been in doubt including in this thread, what is also not in doubt is the very limited number here who support the way it has been implemented in practice.

Kesstryl

Deter1UK wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

This will ruin immersion. Please put account wide achievements on hold so this can be reworked properly!

I just don't understand WHY?

What a pointless, pointless, unnecessary change that seems to be causing nothing but grief and extra work for both devs and players.

Unless it is somehow tied in to the base code rewrites there is so much else in ESO that would be worth spending the time and money on.

Enlighten me please!

[Edit to fix quoting.]

Let me see, documented broken quests, NPCs responding to characters that haven't done certain quests or events as if they did do those things (due to quest achievements flagging NPC behavior and responses), losing the ability to track individual character progress in a clear and meaningful way, people losing the sense of replay because individual character achievements will be gone (why can't we have both individual character and account wide achievements?), and anything else that's been posted multiple times in here. Have you read anything anyone has posted about this? How about this pointless and extra grief for us players who are being impacted severely by this? Do you really want an NPC thanking your level 3 character for stopping the Planemeld before actually having gone through those quests? Well, maybe you might not care, but many of us care an infinite amount about this.

Tandor

@Kesstryl I don't think the messed up quotation formatting is helping either of you, but I think @Deter1UK is asking why ZOS are making this change, not why you're criticising it. I could be wrong, but that's how I read the broken post.

deleted221106-002999

...

silvereyes wrote: »

I went through and evaluated every achievement on PTS. Here are my opinions on each classification.

Achievements I'm fine with being account-wide

• RNG collections. Things like catching rare fish, collecting monster trophies, collecting all the motifs. Some may think of them as objectives, but there's too much randomness for me to think of them that way. Motifs specifically have a way to track them in the lore book section.
• Grindy lists. Things like slaying a large number of enemies of a particular type, doing a large number of dailies, doing a large number of quests for a zone to unlock housing. I would make an exception for things like mass murderer that have morality implications (see the next section below).
• Funny surprising achievements, like falling off a cliff in Orsinium or being slaughterfished. The surprise is gone after the first time.
• Incredibly easy achievements. Things you can get just by entering a house, joining a guild, putting on some gear or assigning CP are really mostly for new players. I'm fine with these being account wide.
• Most PvP achievements. Most of these would fall into the grindy list category, with some exceptions below. Regarding Alliance Rank achievements, since Alliance Rank itself is tracked separately, I don't see an issue with the badges being account-wide.
• Things that unlock achievement furniture. I don't see how achievement furniture could be account-wide without tracking the achievements account-wide. Cyrodiil furniture should also be unlocked by achievements, not Alliance Rank. Exploration and story quest progression is tracked pretty well in the zone guide, so I don't think achievements are needed to track that. However, NPC dialog bugs and quest progression bugs need to be addressed.
• Prologue quests. You can see if you've done these by looking in the Crown Store and Journal
• Companion achievements. Raport is tracked at the character level still, so no issue here.

Achievements I think should be changed back to character-specific

I think of the following as objectives that should be moved back to being character specific. They are check lists that can be accomplished on every zone or dungeon, or on every skill tree, without RNG mechanics or what I consider to be excessive grind.

• Tracking which bosses have been killed in public and instanced dungeons, delves and overworld zones (e.g. Vanquisher / Conqueror).
• Tracking which world events have been completed in a zone. This doesn't need to be an achievement, if zone guide were fixed. But there needs to be a way to track it.
• Dungeon and arena challenges that can be completed on every dungeon or arena. Things like defeating a dungeon or arena on veteran level, hard mode, no-death, speed runs, trifectas. The titles can be account-wide to show that you've done it before no matter which character you are logged in on, but there should still be a way to track individual character progression through those challenges.
• PvP mode challenges, like finishing a BG deathmatch with a certain K/D ratio, or siezing four capture points without dying in Crazy King.
• Skill line reputation. Undaunted, Scrying and Excavation leveling should be no harder on a new character.
• Mage's Guild and Fighter's Guild story quests progress.
• Museum quests. Things like Precursor, Bard's College and the other Chapters' artifacts quests should only display the pieces collected on that character, and should be repeatable.
• Skyshard hunters. There's really very little reason to have these account-wide, and they are a nice way to track Skyshards in a central location, without needing to visit every zone's guide.
• Justice system, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood achievements. Even though some of these are grindy lists, they are the closest thing that ESO has to a morality system, and the presence or absence of these achievements can have profound impact on role-playing.
• Vampire / Werewolf achievements. I don't see why someone needs these globally, and they also have an impact on role-playing.
• Crafter progression, like traits researched, alchemy reagents learned, or which writ certifications a character has.

Achievements I'm ambivalent about one way or another

• Festival achievements. Personally, I put those more into the grind category, but I appreciate people disagree. I'd be fine with those remaining character specific.

Overthinking this, methinks. You could discuss/argue in circles for years about what, where and when players would want to keep separate or squish together.

'Best' solution is to keep both the old system in its entirety and the new system with its bugs. Add in a toggle for visibility so players can choose if they want both, one or the other. Separate tabs for account(new system) and character (original/current).

Titles, dyes etc are account.

Everyone wins: devs because they have code for both, players because choice is good.

edit: editing

Marcusorion1

Numerous times when I have convinced a friend ( from real life or from another game ) to give ESO a try I will create a new character in order to play with them at the same levels and pace. It helps a new person to get " into" the game and I can explain the myriad of details as they arise so they don't get overwhelmed and turned off playing. Replaying old content and quests, often for the 3rd or 4th time is somewhat different on a new build due to the level, gear and type of build I am using.
It is entertaining which justifies to me the expense of playing.

My new quest buddy and I will share quests and progress together - and I fear that much of that will be a mess - perhaps impossible - if my new character has already achieved certain quest related rewards and advancements. Quests may not be able to be shared, doors/areas may be closed to a newer player but not to me. NPC"s may not even have the correct chat options for me.

Has any of this been considered by the " powers that be " ?

Tandor

Marcusorion1 wrote: »

Numerous times when I have convinced a friend ( from real life or from another game ) to give ESO a try I will create a new character in order to play with them at the same levels and pace. It helps a new person to get " into" the game and I can explain the myriad of details as they arise so they don't get overwhelmed and turned off playing. Replaying old content and quests, often for the 3rd or 4th time is somewhat different on a new build due to the level, gear and type of build I am using.
It is entertaining which justifies to me the expense of playing.

My new quest buddy and I will share quests and progress together - and I fear that much of that will be a mess - perhaps impossible - if my new character has already achieved certain quest related rewards and advancements. Quests may not be able to be shared, doors/areas may be closed to a newer player but not to me. NPC"s may not even have the correct chat options for me.

Has any of this been considered by the " powers that be " ?

Conversely, some of those doors/areas may be open to a newer player but not to you because you have a different character that has already completed them.

Karivaa

Varana wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

So are all of your characters emperors now and do they all have 5 stars? Did they give you the skill points earned from earning stars in Cyrodiil?

You will get the Former Emperor title and the titles for all your Alliance War ranks but the rank itself (the stars) and skill line progress are separate things.

Thank you! So my other characters will not have the Grand Overlord title also?

Jaraal

Karivaa wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

So are all of your characters emperors now and do they all have 5 stars? Did they give you the skill points earned from earning stars in Cyrodiil?

You will get the Former Emperor title and the titles for all your Alliance War ranks but the rank itself (the stars) and skill line progress are separate things.

Thank you! So my other characters will not have the Grand Overlord title also?

They will have the Grand Overlord title, even if they are too low to even enter Cyrodiil. And if you are the current Emperor, you can log out, log into your level 2 crafting mule, and they will be Emperor as well.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

I am very much looking forward to account wide achievements. This gives me the freedom to mix it up and play multiple toons while working towards a common goal.

It doesn't diminish whether I have completed a raid on one class over another as I clearly know the mechanics, and want to display title etc.

I think so long as the achievements flash up on someone's screen, and perhaps renews the date of earning the achievement, and doesn't show as completed on a map as new players work their way through, then great.

[snip]

Otherwise, then let's push to keep Champion Points as seperate per character also.

All or Nothing.

[Edit for minor bait.]

skyrimfantasy

Bucky Balls wrote: »

I logged into each of my characters. Then I created a new character on pts (eu).

This new character has the accumulated achievements of all others (the account). He is a master crafter, master angler has completed all base game zones, collected all skyshards, completed a number of dlc zones and significant portions of others and, apparently, is fairly substantial in pvp and battlegrounds.

All without setting foot outwith the spot where the game placed him after character creation.

There's nothing for this character to do - it's all completed. Replayability has been marginalised to how pretty (or ugly) he is during character creation. That's it. Done.

In almost 7 years of playing I have bought ever chapter pre-release, subbed and bought dlc too. I will not be buying the next chapter on pre-release.

If this goes live as is then I very much doubt I will continue to play, despite having many months of my current subscription to run - there's no point. This implementation kills the game.

I am not against account wide achievements nor titles.

I am against the destruction of all existing individual character history, journalling and future play that the current system provides but which this pts implementation of account wide achievements rips the heart and soul from.

Was is so terribly hard for you at zos to recognise that adding an extra tab with accumulated account achievements while retaining the current character specifics would have been universally welcomed?

I can't agree with this enough, Bucky Balls summed it up very well.

Someone else mentioned ZOS has said majority of players have only one character, so this change wouldn't affect them. Personally, in all the guilds I've been in the several years I've played I think I've met only 2 people who had only once character, in fact I know more people who have several accounts with 18 characters each. If the majority of one toon players are those who bought the game on sale and played for 2 weeks, or only 2 days, and never again - I think that's a terrible basis to implement a change like this. Just my 2 cents.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

I am very much looking forward to account wide achievements. This gives me the freedom to mix it up and play multiple toons while working towards a common goal.

It doesn't diminish whether I have completed a raid on one class over another as I clearly know the mechanics, and want to display title etc.

I think so long as the achievements flash up on someone's screen, and perhaps renews the date of earning the achievement, and doesn't show as completed on a map as new players work their way through, then great.

[snip]

Otherwise, then let's push to keep Champion Points as seperate per character also.

All or Nothing.

[Edit for minor bait.]

It is not just "accounts demonstrating they have completed an achievement", it is the fact that it locks out quest lines, changes NPC reactions, locks out some rewards, shows bosses and WB as completed when they arent, and so many other things.
Testing this on PTS, we found out that this is not what people think it is or hoped for.

silvereyes

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

...

silvereyes wrote: »

I went through and evaluated every achievement on PTS. Here are my opinions on each classification.

Achievements I'm fine with being account-wide

• RNG collections. Things like catching rare fish, collecting monster trophies, collecting all the motifs. Some may think of them as objectives, but there's too much randomness for me to think of them that way. Motifs specifically have a way to track them in the lore book section.
• Grindy lists. Things like slaying a large number of enemies of a particular type, doing a large number of dailies, doing a large number of quests for a zone to unlock housing. I would make an exception for things like mass murderer that have morality implications (see the next section below).
• Funny surprising achievements, like falling off a cliff in Orsinium or being slaughterfished. The surprise is gone after the first time.
• Incredibly easy achievements. Things you can get just by entering a house, joining a guild, putting on some gear or assigning CP are really mostly for new players. I'm fine with these being account wide.
• Most PvP achievements. Most of these would fall into the grindy list category, with some exceptions below. Regarding Alliance Rank achievements, since Alliance Rank itself is tracked separately, I don't see an issue with the badges being account-wide.
• Things that unlock achievement furniture. I don't see how achievement furniture could be account-wide without tracking the achievements account-wide. Cyrodiil furniture should also be unlocked by achievements, not Alliance Rank. Exploration and story quest progression is tracked pretty well in the zone guide, so I don't think achievements are needed to track that. However, NPC dialog bugs and quest progression bugs need to be addressed.
• Prologue quests. You can see if you've done these by looking in the Crown Store and Journal
• Companion achievements. Raport is tracked at the character level still, so no issue here.

Achievements I think should be changed back to character-specific

I think of the following as objectives that should be moved back to being character specific. They are check lists that can be accomplished on every zone or dungeon, or on every skill tree, without RNG mechanics or what I consider to be excessive grind.

• Tracking which bosses have been killed in public and instanced dungeons, delves and overworld zones (e.g. Vanquisher / Conqueror).
• Tracking which world events have been completed in a zone. This doesn't need to be an achievement, if zone guide were fixed. But there needs to be a way to track it.
• Dungeon and arena challenges that can be completed on every dungeon or arena. Things like defeating a dungeon or arena on veteran level, hard mode, no-death, speed runs, trifectas. The titles can be account-wide to show that you've done it before no matter which character you are logged in on, but there should still be a way to track individual character progression through those challenges.
• PvP mode challenges, like finishing a BG deathmatch with a certain K/D ratio, or siezing four capture points without dying in Crazy King.
• Skill line reputation. Undaunted, Scrying and Excavation leveling should be no harder on a new character.
• Mage's Guild and Fighter's Guild story quests progress.
• Museum quests. Things like Precursor, Bard's College and the other Chapters' artifacts quests should only display the pieces collected on that character, and should be repeatable.
• Skyshard hunters. There's really very little reason to have these account-wide, and they are a nice way to track Skyshards in a central location, without needing to visit every zone's guide.
• Justice system, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood achievements. Even though some of these are grindy lists, they are the closest thing that ESO has to a morality system, and the presence or absence of these achievements can have profound impact on role-playing.
• Vampire / Werewolf achievements. I don't see why someone needs these globally, and they also have an impact on role-playing.
• Crafter progression, like traits researched, alchemy reagents learned, or which writ certifications a character has.

Achievements I'm ambivalent about one way or another

• Festival achievements. Personally, I put those more into the grind category, but I appreciate people disagree. I'd be fine with those remaining character specific.

Overthinking this, methinks. You could discuss/argue in circles for years about what, where and when players would want to keep separate or squish together.

'Best' solution is to keep both the old system in its entirety and the new system with its bugs. Add in a toggle for visibility so players can choose

I agree that keeping both scopes simultaneously would be ideal. However this late in the development cycle, I was trying to come up with a compromise that makes the most people happy while requiring the least complex changes on the development side.

No matter how we got here, based on the fact that they have confirmed they are still fixing AwA bugs going into PTS week 3, the feature is almost certainly not being postponed. That leaves ZOS with 26 days to develop any changes, test them, fix any bugs and then test again, all while fixing any bugs with the dungeon DLC, new sets, new housing, combat changes, etc. That limits their options considerably from a development perspective.

Tracking simultaneous scopes would require UI updates, API updates, and event handler / trigger updates, at a minimum, something I don't know if there is the time to do, depending on how much code needs to be touched.

From a coding logic standpoint, keeping only a single scope per achievement seems much less complex. The existing code already supports it. They must already keep track of which achievements are character-specific vs. account-wide. Moving a slew of achievement ids from one scope to another seems much more ... achievable.

wolfie1.0.

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

I am very much looking forward to account wide achievements. This gives me the freedom to mix it up and play multiple toons while working towards a common goal.

It doesn't diminish whether I have completed a raid on one class over another as I clearly know the mechanics, and want to display title etc.

I think so long as the achievements flash up on someone's screen, and perhaps renews the date of earning the achievement, and doesn't show as completed on a map as new players work their way through, then great.

[snip]

Otherwise, then let's push to keep Champion Points as seperate per character also.

All or Nothing.

[Edit for minor bait.]

Oh I am totally for character based champion points. More so now that I am losing character achievements. Character based cp posts coming soon if this goes live.

You claim you want all or nothing, but in actuality you arnt getting it with this system. What you are getting is a buggy mess with only most things account wide.

ArchangelIsraphel

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

I am very much looking forward to account wide achievements. This gives me the freedom to mix it up and play multiple toons while working towards a common goal.

It doesn't diminish whether I have completed a raid on one class over another as I clearly know the mechanics, and want to display title etc.

I think so long as the achievements flash up on someone's screen, and perhaps renews the date of earning the achievement, and doesn't show as completed on a map as new players work their way through, then great.

[snip]

Otherwise, then let's push to keep Champion Points as seperate per character also.

All or Nothing.

[Edit for minor bait.]

No one who wants to have independent character tracking is holding you back. This is a misunderstanding that so many who want AWA, and AWA only, walk into this thread with. We are advocating for having AWA side by side with a better independent tracking system. Please, actually read the thread and try to understand it, because believe it or not, we are reading your feedback and understanding that you need AWA to play the way you want. This is a complex issue with far more going on than you seem to think.

Champion Points also have nothing to do with the way the achievement system is being used to track progress, they don't hold valuable data detailing dates of completion or character progress that people want to keep as a form of character building, so no, we have no problem with those things being account wide, because they aren't the same at all and are not being utilized by players in that way.

Your all or nothing statement is irrelevant because none of those systems have any equivalent function to what achievements offer. No important data is permanently and irrevocably lost by making Champion Points account wide. It is lost with achievements.

silvereyes

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

I am very much looking forward to account wide achievements. This gives me the freedom to mix it up and play multiple toons while working towards a common goal.

It doesn't diminish whether I have completed a raid on one class over another as I clearly know the mechanics, and want to display title etc.

I think so long as the achievements flash up on someone's screen, and perhaps renews the date of earning the achievement, and doesn't show as completed on a map as new players work their way through, then great.

[snip]

Otherwise, then let's push to keep Champion Points as seperate per character also.

All or Nothing.

[Edit for minor bait.]

No one who wants to have independent character tracking is holding you back. This is a misunderstanding that so many who want AWA, and AWA only, walk into this thread with. We are advocating for having AWA side by side with a better independent tracking system. Please, actually read the thread and try to understand it, because believe it or not, we are reading your feedback and understanding that you need AWA to play the way you want. This is a complex issue with far more going on than you seem to think.

Indeed. I really welcome new people coming and sharing their perspectives, but I don't understand the animosity. I feel like we are having two totally different conversations. Is there some social media fight spilling over into the forums or something?

ArchangelIsraphel

silvereyes wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

I am very much looking forward to account wide achievements. This gives me the freedom to mix it up and play multiple toons while working towards a common goal.

It doesn't diminish whether I have completed a raid on one class over another as I clearly know the mechanics, and want to display title etc.

I think so long as the achievements flash up on someone's screen, and perhaps renews the date of earning the achievement, and doesn't show as completed on a map as new players work their way through, then great.

[snip]

Otherwise, then let's push to keep Champion Points as seperate per character also.

All or Nothing.

[Edit for minor bait.]

No one who wants to have independent character tracking is holding you back. This is a misunderstanding that so many who want AWA, and AWA only, walk into this thread with. We are advocating for having AWA side by side with a better independent tracking system. Please, actually read the thread and try to understand it, because believe it or not, we are reading your feedback and understanding that you need AWA to play the way you want. This is a complex issue with far more going on than you seem to think.

Indeed. I really welcome new people coming and sharing their perspectives, but I don't understand the animosity. I feel like we are having two totally different conversations. Is there some social media fight spilling over into the forums or something?

Same here, I'm completely open to people coming in and sharing why they want AWA so we can improve upon different ideas to try to get ZOS thinking. But I don't understand why so many of these posts have been nearly identical in their hostile sentiments when many of us are doing our best to listen. It really does feel like something from somewhere else is leaking in so they assume we all have a certain perspective we don't actually have.