PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

peacenote

vingarmo wrote: »

Remember, most people are happy with account wide achievements as it was asked for years

No one is disputing that this has been a regularly requested feature. However, what we've learned from this whole discussion is that what people mean by "account wide achievements" varies greatly. Some people really were driven by wanting titles to be account-wide. Some people wanted an account-wide overview IN ADDITION to what we have in game today. Some people wanted everything to be account-wide to reduce grind, including things like motifs. What is on PTS is like a weird compromise that in reality gives very few people who wanted either account-wide or character-specific views what they had hoped.

vingarmo wrote: »

For me as a player with 18 characters of different classes, builds and specializations this change is amazing. I’ve always played the ones I enjoyed the most at the time and didn’t fixate on a single character with one major downside of it being: I was missing on a lot of achievements I’d have done long time ago if I played on 1 character only and it did frustrate me a bit. In fact, none of my characters even has less than 10k achievement points, because I always did something different on each one but chasing something grindy was much harder than for those who play on single character.

Real question: Why do you care about the number of achievement points on your character, or that they are split across characters? There are no in-game rewards for higher achievement points.

vingarmo wrote: »

I don’t feel bad about account wide titles and I have 15 spirit slayers, flawless conqueror, several grand overlords, former emperors, etc. I did them because I enjoyed the gameplay behind those titles and account wide achievements do not diminish any of them for me. If I’d have more characters I would do some of them again just for fun. Sorry, but if you grinded several master anglers, murkmire preppers, godslayers, tamriel heroes or whatever while hating your life the problem isn’t in account wide achievements and it is not a valid reason why it shouldn’t be implemented.

Setting aside your assumption that no one would have fun pursuing these titles multiple times, which absolutely is NOT the case for everyone... Account Wide Achievements = / = Account Wide Titles. The fact that dyes and collectibles that we unlock via achievements are already account-wide proves that. You can be a big fan of having account wide titles without necessarily wanting account wide achievements. So, I'm glad that you are happy with account-wide titles but that does not in any way validate that account wide achievements are a good or bad thing.

vingarmo wrote: »

You still have zone guide with all important information, zone quests and skyshards tracked per character, dungeon and trials still grayed out if you haven’t done them and you can do them again on different characters, etc. No gamebreaking changes here either, yet some people act like ZOS wiped all their progress and prevent them from replaying anything before even testing it themselves.

Have you tested it? In its current form, only one date and one character gets credit for completing achievements, and other dates and times are wiped out. So... progress is erased. At least, a record of that progress is erased. I can't go back and see what day my warden completed something if my templar did it first. Plus, there are all kinds of reports (which may be bugs or may be intentional, we don't know because no one is answering any questions) where quests and steps don't appear if you have done them on another character on your account.

Regardless, I don't understand why people keep citing the zone guide as a replacement. In the Zone guide, I can't quickly search for all progress anywhere. Nowhere in the zone guide does it tell me if the character I'm currently on has done the dungeons in that zone. For example I can navigate to Shadowfen, but it doesn't show me the dungeons and whether I've done speed mode, no death, or hard mode on my character, or even if I've stepped foot into it at all.

I do feel bad as I have always been pro-AWA achievements as AN ADDITION, and I'm anti-AWA as they are on PTS, and those of us that see the issues with the current state keep responding to the people posting in support of what's on PTS... but I think it's really important for ZOS to understand that many people are saying YES! this is a good thing while simultaneously not understanding the ramifications of what is on PTS. I'm passionate about this because I feel that if this moves forward it won't be good for the game. But it COULD be. There have been a lot of good ideas on how to make it better. I truly understand both sides and I'm not just sitting here, waiting for an anti-sentiment to be posted. I'm really not.

kringled_1

For the people who do care about achievement point totals (which is not me), an observation a friend made in the 33.1 pts: for character specific achievements, those points are only added to your total if you have acquired them on each and every character.
I haven't had a chance to check this on this weeks pts.

ArchangelIsraphel

I just thought of something.

We have a lot of very detailed posts on why we would like to retain character specific tracking, but going over the thread, I'd really love to see some more similar posts from those who want and need AWA for their play style so we can get a better idea of what you think AWA is, what your expectations are, and what you'd like to see improved. Does this version of AWA actually meet your expectations? What are you passionate about ? What aspects of the game bring you joy? We have some, but I feel like we could use a lot more specifics that will help us devise ideas.

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation- We are not your enemy, and would like to work with you to make ZOS see that a solution that works for us both is possible. This is not an us vs them situation and does not have to be a fight.

Calmly tell us what you need, what you like about the game, what could be improved. Explain your frustrations to us without minimizing the frustrations of others who have a different play style than you- we are listening and want to help you make AWA the best possible version that it can be. please help us help you so that your voices can be heard along side ours. That way, we can empathize with you all the more.

You have many articulate and well spoken representatives who are doing a great job at assisting us in understanding your perspective. This could be a great system that is far better than what we are seeing on the PTS, and I truly believe you can help us make it so if you work with us.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I just thought of something.

We have a lot of very detailed posts on why we would like to retain character specific tracking, but going over the thread, I'd really love to see some more similar posts from those who want and need AWA for their play style so we can get a better idea of what you think AWA is, what your expectations are, and what you'd like to see improved. Does this version of AWA actually meet your expectations? What are you passionate about ? What aspects of the game bring you joy? We have some, but I feel like we could use a lot more specifics that will help us devise ideas.

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation- We are not your enemy, and would like to work with you to make ZOS see that a solution that works for us both is possible. This is not an us vs them situation and does not have to be a fight.

Calmly tell us what you need, what you like about the game, what could be improved. Explain your frustrations to us without minimizing the frustrations of others who have a different play style than you- we are listening and want to help you make AWA the best possible version that it can be. please help us help you so that your voices can be heard along side ours. That way, we can empathize with you all the more.

You have many articulate and well spoken representatives who are doing a great job at assisting us in understanding your perspective. This could be a great system that is far better than what we are seeing on the PTS, and I truly believe you can help us make it so if you work with us.

Wow. Thank You!
This is imo the best, well written post in this whole thread.
I whole heartedly agree. Let us resolve this together and hope ZoS listens and does not let this go live in the state its in.
1,000 Huzzah!!!

SilverBride

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation...

I am trying to prevent its implementation as it is now because it will completely destroy the way I have enjoyed playing this game for many years. I love this game and sincerely hope they pull this until they can find a less disruptive way to implement it.

[Edited for clarity]

vingarmo

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I just thought of something.

We have a lot of very detailed posts on why we would like to retain character specific tracking, but going over the thread, I'd really love to see some more similar posts from those who want and need AWA for their play style so we can get a better idea of what you think AWA is, what your expectations are, and what you'd like to see improved. Does this version of AWA actually meet your expectations? What are you passionate about ? What aspects of the game bring you joy? We have some, but I feel like we could use a lot more specifics that will help us devise ideas.

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation- We are not your enemy, and would like to work with you to make ZOS see that a solution that works for us both is possible. This is not an us vs them situation and does not have to be a fight.

Calmly tell us what you need, what you like about the game, what could be improved. Explain your frustrations to us without minimizing the frustrations of others who have a different play style than you- we are listening and want to help you make AWA the best possible version that it can be. please help us help you so that your voices can be heard along side ours. That way, we can empathize with you all the more.

You have many articulate and well spoken representatives who are doing a great job at assisting us in understanding your perspective. This could be a great system that is far better than what we are seeing on the PTS, and I truly believe you can help us make it so if you work with us.

Good write up and hopefully it will help to address your and all other forum posts that was written to me.

2 important things I expect from this change: launching on time with update 33 and functioning as advertised (consolidation of all achievements account wide).

What improvements it provides to me I already mentioned in my initial post:
— getting clear overview of all in game achievements completed by all my characters so I can focus on those I actually miss;
— combining all progress of time-consuming achievements with no need to redo them all over again;
— shifting focus from play your main above all else to play whichever character you want.

Everything on pts met my expectations.

I could still track zone quests and skyshards through zone guide.
I could still track unfinished dungeons, trials and arenas through map icons and for dlc dungeons from collection. It was never convenient to view those from achievements window. However, it might be an improvement for future update to create more convenient overview window for those.
No other relevant information was missing or deleted for me.

I’ll admit, I haven’t read all 50 pages of replies and not too invested in this discussion to keep up with it because I’m satisfied with this change. I’ve only read first 15 pages and I quickly skipped through last 3, but what important information was deleted with this new feature that haven’t been covered with zone guide? (Ignoring information corrupted by bugs) Wouldn’t it be simpler to improve functionality of zone guide in a future updates rather than create some new system from the start?

I’m neutral about account wide titles as it brings nothing to me personally as I already have the ones I value, but I can understand why someone would want them and why they was implemented that way on pts. No hard feelings from me on that one. It did divide end game community on the matter a bit and brought a discussion about lack of end game rewards. It does set a precedent and beg the question: maybe rewards overall deserve a second look if achievements was the only thing that stimulated replay value over most in game content? Because other MMOs do fine with account wide achievements. In my opinion, the results of this change should be watched closely by devs and those concerns should be addressed in future updates (ex. additional rewards for completing trifecta runs for vet dungeons and trials, improved rewards for leaderboard, etc.).

I didn’t deny there are bugs, though the ones I read about wasn’t gamebreaking type of crucial. Like with all previously tested and released systems there would always be some bugs and I expect the most important ones would be fixed before live and some others in a few incrementals later.

Some mechanics need a second look. For example, with delve boss spawns tied to achievements, I hope they standardize them on similar timer with other respawn times of enemies and reduce them to 1 minute. I’m already not looking forward camping Cyrodiil delves for AP buff and this change is long overdue even without AWA.

What I don’t want to see based on the feedback? Butchered feature with it’s core functionality cut in half to resemble third party addon or incentivizing more grind to a point so completing certain achievements over and over would be a must for prestige.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

SilverBride wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation...

I am trying to prevent its implementation because it will completely destroy the way I have enjoyed playing this game for many years. I love this game and sincerely hope they pull this mess until they can find a much less disruptive way to implement it.

And that why some are againt you, sure you have your reason but so does people who want it to go trough. You actively try to stop the Qol they have been asking for years

LalMirchi

Somehow I fail to see the logic in fixing what's not broken while ancient bugs wait patiently for some attention.

I would miss my beloved zone quests on my new alts so I for one do not support the concept of account-wide zone completion.

Wolfkeks

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I just thought of something.

We have a lot of very detailed posts on why we would like to retain character specific tracking, but going over the thread, I'd really love to see some more similar posts from those who want and need AWA for their play style so we can get a better idea of what you think AWA is, what your expectations are, and what you'd like to see improved. Does this version of AWA actually meet your expectations? What are you passionate about ? What aspects of the game bring you joy? We have some, but I feel like we could use a lot more specifics that will help us devise ideas.

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation- We are not your enemy, and would like to work with you to make ZOS see that a solution that works for us both is possible. This is not an us vs them situation and does not have to be a fight.

Calmly tell us what you need, what you like about the game, what could be improved. Explain your frustrations to us without minimizing the frustrations of others who have a different play style than you- we are listening and want to help you make AWA the best possible version that it can be. please help us help you so that your voices can be heard along side ours. That way, we can empathize with you all the more.

You have many articulate and well spoken representatives who are doing a great job at assisting us in understanding your perspective. This could be a great system that is far better than what we are seeing on the PTS, and I truly believe you can help us make it so if you work with us.

First of all, cheers for this post mate! I think most people, whether they want AwA or not, are willing to have this conversation in a calmly manner!

What I want from AwA:
- A way I can play different characters for my raid without losing on achievements from my main. For example, atm I'm running GS with my raid group and I was asked to bring a Necro for it, ergo I would get the achievement and the title on the wrong character for me. With AwA I could freely switch characters in raids without feeling like I'm missing out on my main
- PvP. This might sound a little silly but it goes into the same direction as the one above. I have achievements and titles on my main PvP char but not my others and while I could redo them it is really frustrating getting the higher ranks. And not only because they are time consuming but because of the bad performance I can't play effectively all the time (ergo crashing, freezing, not be able to use abilities or siege weapons etc)
- An overview so I can see what I already did (like the addon)
- A way to use titles on my other chars for RP (though they could be some limitations, like get CP for the vet PvE achievements)
- A way to combine all progress of time-consuming achievements

Does this version of AwA meet my expectations:
No.
While I can use my titles and use different characters now it does not meet my expectations. Simply because it has now bugs that hinder me doing quests. And no, I'm not saying I can't repeat all quests and so on, but as I mentioned in the bug section, I have characters that can't finish quests that are tied to achievements they already started. My favorite DLC for example is the Dark Brotherhood one and I love doing the Litany of Blood Quest on all my characters. Now I can't do that because my char is now stuck (the achievement is done but the NPC ignores me).
Another things that should be worked on is the Undaunted skill line. Since I can't use the achievements anymore for leveling up and as mentioned in the bug thread that they did not increase the reputation of the pledges it takes such a long time to finish the skill line.

What I would like to see:
A version of AwA that can make both groups happy and that is less buggy.
Maybe we can simply have another tab with account wide achievements and an opt in/opt out version for the account wide titles. So people who like AwA can use the account wide achievements tab for all the things mentioned above and people who like to do the achievements per char can use the character achievement tab (and opt out of account wide tiles) or something like this. I already saw some amazing ideas from both sides about an AwA implementation that would make most of us happy.

[edited because I can't write]

ArchangelIsraphel

SilverBride wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation...

I am trying to prevent its implementation because it will completely destroy the way I have enjoyed playing this game for many years. I love this game and sincerely hope they pull this mess until they can find a much less disruptive way to implement it.

I understand this, I truly do- I too would prefer that things remained as they are, but I am afraid that there is the possibility that we cannot have that. I know my post does not speak for everyone who wishes to keep their character data. But I would like to try to encourage ZOS to create a system along side AWA which preserves everything we hold dear, possibly giving us an even better means to track character development. A tool that is truly meant for those who wish to preserve that data, while also being optional for those who only want to look at AWA. In order to do that, I feel we need to get a clearer idea of where the two playstyles crossover due to how entangled they currently are. I'd personally like more data.

One of the insights I've gained from this thread is that there are many who do not think of the achievement badges as being tied to the character due to how they are used in other games. I think if we help ZOS see that it is possible to disentangle the badge itself from the independent progress, it will still be possible to have the dates and a way to show that characters completed or did not complete certain things.

I definitely want a less disruptive way to implement it- and feel it should not go live yet, but eventually should after much time and work has been spent considering the needs of all. That's why I say many of us aren't trying to completely prevent implementation. Instead I feel it can be improved upon it for a later time.

Even so, I do realize there are some who would like to totally bring it to a halt and never see it go live, ever. I actually wanted to in the beginning, but then I realized there were things that could be done to allow my play style to exist along side AWA if only we could get ZOS to listen.

I also hope that by listening and empathizeing with those who are strictly pro-AWA, it will encourage them to listen and understand other points of view and reduce some of the hostility that is blocking us all. That doesn't mean we shouldn't dismantle misconceptions or back down from speaking our minds. Honesty is so important in this situation and I respect what you are saying.

ZOS needs to think really hard on this. It's such a divisive issue

Deter1UK

Tandor wrote: »

@Kesstryl I don't think the messed up quotation formatting is helping either of you, but I think @Deter1UK is asking why ZOS are making this change, not why you're criticising it. I could be wrong, but that's how I read the broken post.

Indeed. I was agreeing wholeheartedly with @Kesstryl

Sorry if my sparse use of quotes caused confusion

silvereyes

vingarmo wrote: »

Everything on pts met my expectations.

I could still track zone quests and skyshards through zone guide.
I could still track unfinished dungeons, trials and arenas through map icons and for dlc dungeons from collection. It was never convenient to view those from achievements window. However, it might be an improvement for future update to create more convenient overview window for those.
No other relevant information was missing or deleted for me.

[snip]

what important information was deleted with this new feature that haven’t been covered with zone guide? (Ignoring information corrupted by bugs) Wouldn’t it be simpler to improve functionality of zone guide in a future updates rather than create some new system from the start?
[snip]
What I don’t want to see based on the feedback? ... incentivizing more grind to a point so completing certain achievements over and over would be a must for prestige.

Thanks for sharing! It's very helpful to have details about your perspective!

To answer your question about what is deleted at the character level:

• Whether dungeons have been completed on vet mode
• Which bosses have been killed in dungeons.
• Which challenges have been completed (hard mode, speed run, no death, trifecta). Some players do these as part of the content that a dungeon has to offer, like a challenge mode, and they want to do them on every character. It's less about the prestige, and more about rising to a challenge the game gives them.
• Dates that second+ characters completed achievements individually. Many use this as a sort of activity log scrap book, to remember what they did on important dates in their lives.

These data are not things that can just be improved upon in a future update, if they are wiped clean by being assimilated into the collective achievement.

This is what people mean when they talk about achievements being too entangled with in-game objectives and logging. Achievements are the only way we have to track those things today. These things may not be important to you, but they are to many people, and they are afraid the data is being thrown in the trash. That's why they are frantic right now.

And obviously, there's also all the things reported in the bugs thread, which we still haven't gotten confirmation whether ZOS considers them all bugs or not.

Edit: Actually, we've gotten explicit confirmation that ZOS is not actively working on all the bugs reported in that thread. Gina said only "some" are.

Necrotech_Master

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I just thought of something.

We have a lot of very detailed posts on why we would like to retain character specific tracking, but going over the thread, I'd really love to see some more similar posts from those who want and need AWA for their play style so we can get a better idea of what you think AWA is, what your expectations are, and what you'd like to see improved. Does this version of AWA actually meet your expectations? What are you passionate about ? What aspects of the game bring you joy? We have some, but I feel like we could use a lot more specifics that will help us devise ideas.

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation- We are not your enemy, and would like to work with you to make ZOS see that a solution that works for us both is possible. This is not an us vs them situation and does not have to be a fight.

Calmly tell us what you need, what you like about the game, what could be improved. Explain your frustrations to us without minimizing the frustrations of others who have a different play style than you- we are listening and want to help you make AWA the best possible version that it can be. please help us help you so that your voices can be heard along side ours. That way, we can empathize with you all the more.

You have many articulate and well spoken representatives who are doing a great job at assisting us in understanding your perspective. This could be a great system that is far better than what we are seeing on the PTS, and I truly believe you can help us make it so if you work with us.

in some of the examples ive made earlier in this thread the main reason i want acct wide achievements is to make it easier to work on some of the achievements (kill/do X number of times achievements, or composite achievements)

an example i gave in my previous post was this:

there is achievement for completing both falkreath hold and bloodroot forge on vet which unlocks a dye

player has 2 characters:
character A who has completed falkreath hold, but has not completed bloodroot forge
character B who has completed bloodroot forge but not falkreath hold

player has completed both dungeons, but is not eligible for the achievement for completing both because they were done on different characters

account wide achievements solve this problem, and actually allow the person to play multiple characters to work on achievements, instead of being forced to do everything on 1 toon

i see account wide achievements as actually freeing up my ability to work on achievements through multiple toons

now, this is not saying i agree with their current implementation which could have been done much better (i detail out how i would do the account wide achievements in a way that would actually make sense and make both parties happy in my previous post in this thread here)

maximusrex45

Ugh_Tech wrote: »

AwA in my opinion is something that points in the wrong direction. There may be some achievements where it makes sense to share them over all characters but for most achievements in doesn't.
A freshly created ("born") character does not have any titles, has killed no world bosses, cleared no delves etc., it's mostly a blank piece of paper. Therefor it should be clear that he has to get his own achievements. Granting titles to a new character just because another character within the same account has them is like giving a gold medal to someone whose sibling or cousin has won one - ridiculous! And why should a character, who's never seen Cyrodiil should be called 'former emperor'?

When my characters start achieving those things when I am not at the keyboard you will have a valid point. I do support players being able to track what they have personally done on each individual character, but characters do not earn anything, players do.

maximusrex45

silvereyes wrote: »

I went through and evaluated every achievement on PTS. Here are my opinions on each classification.

Achievements I'm fine with being account-wide

• RNG collections. Things like catching rare fish, collecting monster trophies, collecting all the motifs. Some may think of them as objectives, but there's too much randomness for me to think of them that way. Motifs specifically have a way to track them in the lore book section.
• Grindy lists. Things like slaying a large number of enemies of a particular type, doing a large number of dailies, doing a large number of quests for a zone to unlock housing. I would make an exception for things like mass murderer that have morality implications (see the next section below).
• Funny surprising achievements, like falling off a cliff in Orsinium or being slaughterfished. The surprise is gone after the first time.
• Incredibly easy achievements. Things you can get just by entering a house, joining a guild, putting on some gear or assigning CP are really mostly for new players. I'm fine with these being account wide.
• Most PvP achievements. Most of these would fall into the grindy list category, with some exceptions below. Regarding Alliance Rank achievements, since Alliance Rank itself is tracked separately, I don't see an issue with the badges being account-wide.
• Things that unlock achievement furniture. I don't see how achievement furniture could be account-wide without tracking the achievements account-wide. Cyrodiil furniture should also be unlocked by achievements, not Alliance Rank. Exploration and story quest progression is tracked pretty well in the zone guide, so I don't think achievements are needed to track that. However, NPC dialog bugs and quest progression bugs need to be addressed.
• Prologue quests. You can see if you've done these by looking in the Crown Store and Journal
• Companion achievements. Raport is tracked at the character level still, so no issue here.

Achievements I think should be changed back to character-specific

I think of the following as objectives that should be moved back to being character specific. They are check lists that can be accomplished on every zone or dungeon, or on every skill tree, without RNG mechanics or what I consider to be excessive grind.

• Tracking which bosses have been killed in public and instanced dungeons, delves and overworld zones (e.g. Vanquisher / Conqueror).
• Tracking which world events have been completed in a zone. This doesn't need to be an achievement, if zone guide were fixed. But there needs to be a way to track it.
• Dungeon and arena challenges that can be completed on every dungeon or arena. Things like defeating a dungeon or arena on veteran level, hard mode, no-death, speed runs, trifectas. The titles can be account-wide to show that you've done it before no matter which character you are logged in on, but there should still be a way to track individual character progression through those challenges.
• PvP mode challenges, like finishing a BG deathmatch with a certain K/D ratio, or siezing four capture points without dying in Crazy King.
• Skill line reputation. Undaunted, Scrying and Excavation leveling should be no harder on a new character.
• Mage's Guild and Fighter's Guild story quests progress.
• Museum quests. Things like Precursor, Bard's College and the other Chapters' artifacts quests should only display the pieces collected on that character, and should be repeatable.
• Skyshard hunters. There's really very little reason to have these account-wide, and they are a nice way to track Skyshards in a central location, without needing to visit every zone's guide.
• Justice system, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood achievements. Even though some of these are grindy lists, they are the closest thing that ESO has to a morality system, and the presence or absence of these achievements can have profound impact on role-playing.
• Vampire / Werewolf achievements. I don't see why someone needs these globally, and they also have an impact on role-playing.
• Crafter progression, like traits researched, alchemy reagents learned, or which writ certifications a character has.

Achievements I'm ambivalent about one way or another

• Festival achievements. Personally, I put those more into the grind category, but I appreciate people disagree. I'd be fine with those remaining character specific.

I mostly agree with this.

Undaunted, Scrying, and Excavation need their own QoL adjustments separate from AWA. Undaunted is just a massively slow and unfun grind, but I see no problem with Skill Line progression being per character. The Antiquities lines are also very grindy, which is made worse by the fact that you don't really need it on multiple characters, but the perk Keen Eye: Treasure Chests for some reason is very deep into the line, in the grindiest part. I would like that addressed, but don't see it as part of AWA.

I can't speak for everyone, but a lot about AWA is trying to check off the lists, so grindy stuff like Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Festival Achievements, Vampire, and Werewolf should absolutely be account wide.

I think that for a lot of the areas of disagreement a good compromise would be to have an account view that shows your shared progress, plus a character view that shows their individual contribution. This would be basically mostly the current system with shared contribution and account roll-up in the journal.

I'd like to note that Dark Brotherhood's "museum" quest to kill specific NPCs across the zones have never been offered to my alts, though I can still get credit for killing them on alts and have the images show up in the Sanctuary.

SnowP

maximusrex45 wrote: »

When my characters start achieving those things when I am not at the keyboard you will have a valid point. I do support players being able to track what they have personally done on each individual character, but characters do not earn anything, players do.

You play this game by doing content with an actual character. Without a character you can not earn anything.
So a player taken alone can not earn anything in the game, an account taken alone can not earn anything.
Only the combination of a player playing a specific character can earn something.
And with the actual implementation the link between the character and the player is lost.

maximusrex45

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Same here, I'm completely open to people coming in and sharing why they want AWA so we can improve upon different ideas to try to get ZOS thinking. But I don't understand why so many of these posts have been nearly identical in their hostile sentiments when many of us are doing our best to listen. It really does feel like something from somewhere else is leaking in so they assume we all have a certain perspective we don't actually have.

There are enough posters here making clear they are dead set against AWA and that are people who even want AWA at all just don't want to play the game that is can as much be about trying to get a Pro AWA message out as any spillover from outside. I think a lot of AWA supporters are just not aware of how bad it is on PTS. I want AWA but what is on PTS just isn't very good and is alarming to me.

SilverBride

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

For new and old posters to the thread who are excited about AWA, but are upset and think we are trying to prevent it's implementation...

I am trying to prevent its implementation because it will completely destroy the way I have enjoyed playing this game for many years. I love this game and sincerely hope they pull this mess until they can find a much less disruptive way to implement it.

And that why some are againt you, sure you have your reason but so does people who want it to go trough. You actively try to stop the Qol they have been asking for years

It has very detrimental effects for those of us who enjoy playing each character as individuals, and we don't see it as a quality of life change.

[Edited for clarity]

silvereyes

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

now, this is not saying i agree with their current implementation which could have been done much better (i detail out how i would do the account wide achievements in a way that would actually make sense and make both parties happy in my previous post in this thread here)

The side-by-side tracking for account and character achievements would not make "both sides" happy, because there are more than two sides here. Let's not dismiss those that explicitly don't want to have two checklists per character, for reasons I attempt to summarize here.

IMO, many of the things that people are sad to loose if all achievements go account-wide would be much better tracked in a separate character log / objectives tracker that isn't coupled to badges or collectibles at all.

Edit: I'm not saying that I think we'll get that this update though. There's not enough time. That is why I suggested moving several of the more objective-like achievements to a character-specific scope. I don't see that list as a permanent solution, though, only a stopgap so that the per-character objective data isn't lost.

KMarble

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

Otherwise, then let's push to keep Champion Points as seperate per character also.

All or Nothing.

That is exactly how I play my characters on live. None of them use CP points until they reach level 50.

I know I'm not the only one because I've seen a few threads pop up through the years asking for ways to track CP points earned on alts so that these players can have a similar experience to what they went through with their first character.


The full price of each new expansion is $39.99. I could justify paying the same as a new game because I'm able (until AWA is implemented on live) to replay the game with other characters and achieve what my previous character(s) have already done before.

We're in the 3rd week of PTS and the ONLY bug related to AWA fixed so far was the ability to buy skyshards on characters that didn't have them. There isn't enough time to check all the quests that might had been affected by this. The fact that a major flaw is still present in the main quest of N. Elsweyr on the 3rd week of testing is troublesome. How many others are there?

I cannot think of any game that only allows you to play through it once completely and then will only allow you to replay through certain parts of it if you decide to "start over" (create a new character).

Again, I'm not against AWA. I'm against the way AWA was implemented so far in the PTS.

Necrotech_Master

silvereyes wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

now, this is not saying i agree with their current implementation which could have been done much better (i detail out how i would do the account wide achievements in a way that would actually make sense and make both parties happy in my previous post in this thread here)

The side-by-side tracking for account and character achievements would not make "both sides" happy, because there are more than two sides here. Let's not dismiss those that explicitly don't want to have two checklists per character, for reasons I attempt to summarize here.

IMO, many of the things that people are sad to loose if all achievements go account-wide would be much better tracked in a separate character log / objectives tracker that isn't coupled to badges or collectibles at all.

i mean i understand that there are different issues:

• title sharing (im personally indifferent on this either way, see notes below about similar situations with unlockable cosmetics)
• obtaining unlocks (most people point out monster trophy dyes, but in reality ALL achievement unlocks except for titles are already account wide anyway, its the composite ones which are most problematic because all sub-parts have to be done on the same toon)
• character/quest progression (im personally fine with this being per character especially if there are a lot of things keying off this, but i would still like account level tracking to make sure i have done everything)

for something similar to the titles, a lot of people are complaining you can use "grand overlord" on a brand new toon that never set foot in cyrodiil, but this fails to take into account that i could roll a brand new character and equip them with the emperors regalia costume (since ive gotten emp before) without ever setting foot in cyrodiil, and use the skin from vMOL, and this i could do right now on the live server

using a "side by side" system, you are not losing any character identity compared to what we have now, but having achievements unlockable at the account level would alleviate a lot of annoyance especially with already-account-wide unlockables tied to achievements

Jaraal

silvereyes wrote: »

The side-by-side tracking for account and character achievements would not make "both sides" happy, because there are more than two sides here. Let's not dismiss those that explicitly don't want to have two checklists per character, for reasons I attempt to summarize here.

Agreed, there are some who don't want AWA, but are OK with account wide titles. But some feel that titles should be earned per character, so as to not cheapen the whole achievement. Then there are those who think some AWA are ok, like monster trophies, but think harder achievements like Emperor or Trifectas should remain hard to get. And some who think everything should be account wide, and some who think nothing should be account wide.

So, regardless of what they do, somebody's not going to be happy. I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years. But that can of worms has been opened, so now I think ZOS will look at what percentage of people are most likely to stop playing / play less / spend less money, and move in that direction. But then again, who really knows. I guess we'll find out soon.

SilverBride

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

I still wonder what exactly prompted this change and what possible benefit it could have.

[Edited for clarity]

Dark_Lord_Kuro

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

silvereyes

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Honestly, I think they were probably just trying to do something they thought players wanted, and they misjudged badly during the implementation. I don't think we have to try and divine some ulterior motive. Hopefully they will clarify their motives during the Q & A, and help us understand what went wrong.

At the end of the day, though, their motives don't matter nearly so much as their actions. I really hope they take action to preserve character-specific data, whether it be by creating a stopgap, delaying rollout, or whatever.

Jaraal

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

They are certainly in no hurry to tell us.

SilverBride

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

There have been forum threads asking for a lot of things repeatedly over the years that haven't been implemented. We would just like to know what prompted this change and what benefit it would bring.

[Edited for clarity]

Tandor

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

There have been far fewer threads asking for account-wide achievements than there have been about e.g. auction houses, these sorts of thing tend to be cyclical and none of them tend to attract such overwhelming support as to warrant a complete change to a core system that has become well established in the game. That's why ZOS haven't introduced an auction house, and yet they have introduced account-wide achievements and titles with virtually no warning and absolutely no explanation. It's all very strange, especially as they have introduced it in a form that hasn't even gone down well with many of those who want account-wide achievements, but I can only assume from the lack of clarity and openness that this is something they introduced for their own reasons, not ours.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

SilverBride wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

There have been forum threads asking for a lot of things repeatedly over the years that haven't been implemented, especially without any indication that they actually found it feasible and an asset to the game. Something else is behind their decision to do this and I think we deserve to know what that is.

Agree. Who thought this was gonna be a good change?
There have been many more posts about class change tokens, new skill line, more character slots, spellcrafting, performance, new class, etc than for AwA, imo.
I still wonder if ZoS had this planned back at Armory Station roll out, as it seems they want to make playing alts more confined and less fun. Wonder why we haven't heard an update on this "Q&A".
@ZOS_Kevin , any news? Inquiring minds want know.
Just my 2 drakes.
Huzzah!

Mephit

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I think the least amount of displeased people would have been for them to have never even brought the subject up, and let the game continue as it has for the last eight years.

This exactly. And I still wonder what exactly prompted them to do this and what they are trying to accomplish with it.

Maybe all the forum thread asking for it for the last few year?

I'm sure there was, and I'd be intrigued to understand what exactly they wanted, though I suspect there was no consensus, much like there isn't now. I suspect many (most) who wanted AWA wanted it done properly.

Those of us who prefer character level achievements (for most achievements) haven't been posting on the forums though have we, cos things are ok as they are. We didn't for one moment suspect they would tear out the heart of a perfectly sensible (and story line embedded) existing achievement system, and replace it with this nonsense.

Even when I heard it mentioned in the reveal, I remember feeling positive about getting something new to complete... but no, they took the stoopid path.

ZOS > good news, we're releasing some new content you have to pay for! bad news, we're removing existing content you enjoy.. but at least that is free!! yay