Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

spartaxoxo

RisenEclipse wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

RisenEclipse wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

That’s what I find most curious about this whole thing: that ZOS would willingly take away one of their biggest motivators to get people to grind and invest time in the game. Totally unlike them to walk away from so much potential revenue. I have no idea how they got that one past the accounting department.

I very much doubt they made a lot of potential revenue off of you running content you've already purchased on an alt.

Then you clearly don’t understand all the cash sinks built into the game.

One example: say someone wants the Emperor or Grand Overlord title for their alt. They might buy riding lessons from the crown store so they don’t have to wait 60 days for max mount speed, which is crucial for success in Cyrodiil. But now, they’ll just be able to select it from a drop down, no investment of time, gold, or cash.

If the riding lessons were making it them that much money, they wouldn't be giving them away for free so often. Beyond that, there isn't really a lot to do with gameplay that is linked to rerunning content that you've already done in the cash shop. This game actually largely avoids linking the cash shop to what you are doing in the game with it mostly being cosmetic items. The exception is the DLC packs which you buy one time, it does not matter how many characters you run through it.

If that’s the case, then they can remove all the skill line tokens from the crown store. Because once you get the Undaunted Skill Master achievement on one character, you get it on all your characters and there would be no reason to purchase it.

I really don't think many people purchase skill tokens for achievement purposes... pretty sure they buy them because they don't want to go through the grind of leveling up that skill, and want to unlock the skill immediately. Which is their purpose. So the buying of tokens will by no means be effected by the new achievement system.

Well, if it’s not a shared achievement, then it’s just a shared title. And if you have the achievement, then you would have Undaunted Mettle, Undaunted Command, and actually have all the skills mastered as well.

I don't think that's how that is going to work. With that logic all quests attached to achievements would be done to. So literally whole game competed for all characters. No, that's silly. You'll just have a global achievement to see what your characters have done, but it's not going to effect those characters by giving you skills and unlocking everything. The only thing that will change is that when you reach max level in a skill, you won't get a pop up message saying you got an achievement.

Yeah. I very much doubt that as well. I just don't see that happening. If they can separate the title then I imagine we'd only get that. It not, it will probably just be an exception to the ones we get. I just don't see them automatically unlocking a bunch of skills for us, they already stated some achievements wouldn't count and that would invalidate some crown store items.

colossalvoids

After sleeping on that info I'm rather okay with that already, one one hand I would surely miss something like flawless popping up on new characters but overall flexibility is more important to me. Being able to go in content on any character I'm pleased today instead on main achievement collector would be refreshing and not feel like I'm missing out for now. Groups would become more optimised, which is a nice thing.

spartaxoxo

colossalvoids wrote: »

Groups would become more optimised, which is a nice thing.

I think is another slept on benefit tbh. There have been times where I have done things like say not swap to a healer because I wanted an achievement on my DPS instead. Now my only consideration for that will be if I feel like healing.

Jaraal

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

No way should titles be account wide. The end game community is small enough as it is. They will kill it with this. As it is, I don't want to do TTT on a toon that already has it, and if ALL of them have it, well...I'll never do TTT again. Shoot, I'll never do VHOF or NHOF again.

Yep, I’ve spent thousands of hours in Cyrodiil getting titles and achievements for my individual characters. If they will suddenly have everything available by default, I see my motivation to spend time there severely curtailed.

peacenote

Troodon80 wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Im mad because I wanted to -earn- those on each toon as my own personal goal.

Now I dont have a goal. I was looking forward to working through each toon, to get them all respectively. Now theres gonna be no damn point.

If it's a personal goal, how has the goal changed? It's personal to you. Regardless of the fact that the achievement is unlocked, you can still make it your primary goal to do it on said character to prove to yourself that you can. For personal satisfaction.

But now we won't be able to track it or in some cases be even sure if it was accomplished, as the achievement popping is the only way we know right now.

Say I start a new character and I want to try getting some no death dungeons. How will I know for sure if I accomplished this if the achievement doesn't pop?

All the achievements that have numbers to do something x times?

Seriously, I would really like to know how we would know if the other characters successfully did the activity without the achievement being triggered and logged.

Literally removes a whole dimension of the game.. trying to get achievements with a different class or in a different situation.

IronWooshu

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

No way should titles be account wide. The end game community is small enough as it is. They will kill it with this. As it is, I don't want to do TTT on a toon that already has it, and if ALL of them have it, well...I'll never do TTT again. Shoot, I'll never do VHOF or NHOF again.

This is what I've been saying, my guild does Sunspire and I have a new toon, I run it with them because I need the title/achievement on the new alt. Why should I run it now with any new alt or any trial that I have the achievements.

colossalvoids

spartaxoxo wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Groups would become more optimised, which is a nice thing.

I think is another slept on benefit tbh. There have been times where I have done things like say not swap to a healer because I wanted an achievement on my DPS instead. Now my only consideration for that will be if I feel like healing.

Yeah basically. It's still a double edged sword feature as I see it but I'm kinda trying to pick positives for now whilst we're waiting for actual patch notes to confirm how it's really is and would it actually hurt that much in implementation.

RaikaNA

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

How does it ruin character development by making achievements account wide? People can buy achievements in craglorn if they have the coin.. I see sellers advertising their skin and achievement services all the time in craglorn... It makes no difference really. If you want a clean run... depend on guild members.. don't pug.

BahometZ

I'm finding it hard to shake my immediate response of concern and sense of diminished achievement. I think if I hadn't played this game for so long and forged a sense of purpose within the system's parameters, that is striving to get the most achievements on my first and main character, I may not be so glum. Now that it is suddenly changing I agree this is a good thing for newer players, and don't begrudge them that, but I do mourn the efforts I've put in across multiple characters to break into new content and eventually open doors for my main to walk through.

I'm also thinking about those people who got Master Angler on multiple toons. Or people who pursue 5 star and Former Emperor on multiple toons because they love PvP and want to combine it with a goal.
I myself have got Grand Master Crafter on a couple toons and and am well on the way to a third, because I like the title, as well as Style Master. I've also got multiple trifectas in different teams and each one meant a lot individually. I wear those titles with pride when I'm on that toon, combined with the specific guild tabard I achieved them with. I can still do that obviously, but I will be able to do it on any character with the same outward effect. When most interactions in the game are initially face value, that face value has been reduced. A lot of people like running content on multiple toons and like to have a title on those toons that reflect their capabilities. I rock up to a trial with a couple of Immortal Redeemers in the group and I think that's pretty cool, these guys mean business and I better step up too. But how do I know whether they are capable, they may have got the clear on a warden healer, and now they're dpsing on blade.

There is a thread somewhere in here of people keeping tabs of the players with the highest achievement scores, so I know people do care about that, but I also believe that titles are a more noticeable way of keeping track of your achievements. Most people wouldn't even be able to tell you how many achievement points are achievable let alone what their score is. Regardless there are surely a lot of different ways people pursue that sense of achievement in ESO and I don't like the idea of diminishing that for others, let alone myself.

I get that people will feel more comfortable bringing a comp friendly class if it means it unlocks something for their whole account but there are also a heap of runs where people are enthused to come along to something partly because they need an achievement. It may well go both ways. A lot of raid teams work on the basis of getting completes on the characters that best ensure a clear, and then go back and help each other get it on their preferred toons when they get more comfortable with the content. It's a nice social aspect that leads to replayability.

I'm also wondering if there'll be a way for people to keep track of whether they've completed an achievement if all achievements are filled in across your account. Like I may have done Fang Focused on a couple toons but will it just fill it in for all the others? I guess it would become irrelevant because it's all the same, but then what is even the point of having 18 toons beyond basic aesthetics and roleplay? A lot of people have spent real money on these multiple characters, outfits, skill lines, horse training, etc. and combined with the armory system this move seems to reduce the practical purpose of those extra character slots. I know this is a role playing game but the very fact we're talking about achievements proves that it's more than just a feeling, there are concrete goals that we weave into our gameplay and it matters.

There are lot of people who are happy this is happening and I get the sense from Zenimax's cheery response to those people that it is a forgone conclusion. For others who have forged a sense of purpose in this system that is suddenly shifting and have a connection with different characters it's hard not to feel a lot of that time and energy has been dismissed .

IronWooshu

The only achievements I wouldn't mind being account wide are the ones were you have to kill 250 certain enemies of a dungeon or 250 dolmens etc..

thorwyn

I'm not a big fan of shared titles either. But then, at this point, it doesn't really matter anymore, that ship has sailed. After the introduction of 3d printers, sticker books, imperfected drops and curated drops, this is just another step towards the total indifference and randomness of today's fast food gaming culture.

kargen27

"You claim that your main "doesn't deserve it," but not everyone shares that point of view. Some people view achievements as things that THEY the player earn, and their characters as tools for getting those achievements. And some people view achievements as something that their character earns with them together, and thus they would be less likely to view that achievement as earned."

and that is why at the very least there needs to be a toggle so each player can decide if what they are doing will apply to account or character only.

jecks33

I'm super happy about this, now I can have titles and achievements on my main character instead of on a character I've been forced to use by my guild just for the "best group composition"

Xebov

Players dont notice titles to begin with, i see a player but i dont look at them what titles they are using, so having titles bound to the character through that argument is silly. Given the huge amount of titles many dont even know where they come from.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

2) I thought achievements as a gauge of "can they do this hardmode" were already "useless" due to paid carry runs.

Achievments where never good as a sort auf gauge to begin with.
Achievments only show you what was done and when and you implicitely knew the class it was done on. You dont get any extra information, no role, no performance, nothing. Its like doing a test and say you passed it without saying if you did great or barely made it.
Besides that achievments can be forged and reused. They are not linked to a character, they are links to the achievment combined with a timestamp and for those with progress with progress information. You can copy them around and reeuse them on your other characters, or copy them to other players outside the game. You can also just copy the link out and edit the timestamp. So they where never designed to be foolproof. Carry runs in itself have little impact on this.

Wise_Will

im super excited for this, now i wont have to pay for titles on each account. i have always thought achievements should be account wide.

RaddlemanNumber7

This feels incredibly counter intuitive. It's like being allowed to wear your grandad's medals.

TiaFrye

Some titles I will never be able to get on some of my characters (lack of time or motivation, or the right team) but having an immersive title on say cosplay toon that fits to the character they're portraying is a dream come true... I'm still the one who got it once upon a time, so what's the difference.

jecks33

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

This feels incredibly counter intuitive. It's like being allowed to wear your grandad's medals.

the person who wear a title earned on a different char is the same person who wear the same title on the current char, it's not his grandad's character

Xebov

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

This feels incredibly counter intuitive. It's like being allowed to wear your grandad's medals.

Thats the wrong compariosn. Its like being allowed to wear your army medals or keeping your rank when switching to the air force. Its a different characters, but its always you.

TheImperfect

As I said I have mixed feelings about it. Good in some ways but for other reasons definitely not. I got a skin unlocked the other night on one character and that's before account wide achievement but I can still use it on the character I wanted it for but as people have said sometimes certain characters don't want some achievements.
The worst thing happened also my pure of heart and non murderous warden is now considered a murderer because she accidentally got a bounty and her bear killed an npc in the next room who was enraged after she ran away and didn't see the bear do it.

Xuhora

im not really on board with titles ruining titles, while skins from titles are free to wear anyway

what im concerned about is the experience i got from all the slayer achievements on multiple chars. they gave arround 1.2mil XP with enlightend and XP scroll.
the other thing, and i have stated that so many times in every thread, what about the XP in skill lines? Every Vet and HM achievement gave progression towards undaunted. and it was still a PITA to level up undaunted on new chars. how is it going to be?

I really hope ZOS can explain to us: Will we earn the XP as it was even if we have the achievement allready on a different char? Will the XP fall away because of that, and if so, are there going to be other ways in earning skill line XP?

I really really hope they thought that through

Pog_Mahone

I'm glad I can do the 30 daily quest every DLC with my alts now

HanYolo

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

It's still the same person doing it.

this misses the point entirely. If I can get a Godslayer on a DD, chances are I can do it on a diffrerent DD as well. But it doesn't mean I have any [snip] idea how to do it as a tank or healer. So why should my healer, that has maybe 10 hours played, be able to wear that title?

The idea of account wide achievements is nice, if you think about something like monster trophies. But since anything that is bound to skillpoints wont be affected it is completely uselss. Because heaven forbid we comprosmise anything in the crownstore that some poor soul might waste a few bucks on.

Account wide riding lessons or skillpoints? Yes please, that would be a huge quality of life improvement. But we are getting achievements and a lot of unnecessary confusion with it. Why? Because it compromises nothing that has already been implemented in the crown store and might just silence some voices of complaint, while screwing over the silent majority that had no issue with the current system of achievments.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Katinas

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.

Kevin, please show us THREE numbers whenever you're viewing your achievements in the journal.
The total number of achievement points available in the game - currently we have 48,885 as of Deadlands DLC;
The total number of achievement points you have achieved across your account;
The total number of achievement points each particular character has earned on their own without being granted achievements earned by your other characters.

This way everyone knows exactly how much progress each of your characters have made as well as how much you've advanced collectively with your entire account.

tomfant

I like it. Makes the grindy ones much less of a pain (looking at you Murkmire prologue). But I get also the concerns re: dungeon and trial achievements. Therefore, this kind of achievements should probably list the char name and maybe also the role that gained the achievement.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

LadyHeloise wrote: »

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this too, as my characters do different things and I don't want them to all have the same access to tiles that in many cases they haven't, and shouldn't, have access to as they haven't played that content. Any chance this could be a choice?

Just dont equip those title probem solved

TempestM

Such basic QoL as account-wide progression was long overdue (although still missing in some areas like mount training) and I'm very happy that it's finally making it into the game, despite vocal minority of gatekeepers who don't understand that carries for titles existed before

SerafinaWaterstar

From other thread:

Devilon wrote: »
» show previous quotes

“Do you see the irony in that statement? You, the player, earned them achievements. The character(s) are just the tools you used to earn them.”

Not irony at all.

I played them ON A CERTAIN CHARACTER.

For example, I’ve done vMoL on my stamblade. Main character & one I probably do best on. My magwarden? Wouldn’t get past first mob.

This needs to be optional. Or a global tab.

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the idea - or at least need a detailed description of how it is going to work & what affected.

Quest achievements?
Pvp ranks & titles?
Fighters Guild?
Mages guild?
Psijic?
Dark Brotherhood?
Thieves Guild?
Antiquities?
Crafting?
Holiday achievements?

So basically having played this for over 6 years with my main getting all my achievements, there is zero point in playing on any of my alts as they will all be completed?!

Great. Really well thought out. 🤬😡

@ZOS_Kevin

Neferet

I like that they will make it account-wide. If you're only grinding content to get a title (on multiple characters even), then I think that is pretty sad.

SerafinaWaterstar

Neferet wrote: »

I like that they will make it account-wide. If you're only grinding content to get a title (on multiple characters even), then I think that is pretty sad.

I play the game on different characters as I enjoy PLAYING THE GAME.

Achievements on each character help me measure my progress ie haven’t done that (no death hm for example) on this character, so that’s something to work towards. Not ‘grind’.

So yeah, maybe I am ‘sad’ in your opinion.