Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

kargen27

Kwoung wrote: »

Are people really arguing that a character earned titles? Do their characters run around when they are asleep or something and they wake up to new titles? Seriously? The player earns titles, the character is nothing without the player... just log your character in, don't touch your keyboard and look at how much that character can accomplish.

How can we tell if someone is qualified if we don't know that character earned the title... come on really? Clue in, your toon doesn't earn anything, it's a toon that does absolutely nothing without someone controlling it!

Can you get a title without your character? Are you seriously telling me you can gain a title without even logging into the game and accessing a character? You can just sit at the character selection screen and hit "E" until you are a master fisher. The title is an effort accomplished by you and your character. Takes both. If another character wasn't a part of that accomplishment they shouldn't get the title.

Uvi_AUT

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

You do realize that the only thing seperating the classes from each other is the color of the spells?
Its alwas BuffLABuffLAdotLAdotswitchdpsladpsladpsladotswitch, no matter what the name of the spell is.
Its the player that got the Achievement.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

kargen27 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Are people really arguing that a character earned titles? Do their characters run around when they are asleep or something and they wake up to new titles? Seriously? The player earns titles, the character is nothing without the player... just log your character in, don't touch your keyboard and look at how much that character can accomplish.

How can we tell if someone is qualified if we don't know that character earned the title... come on really? Clue in, your toon doesn't earn anything, it's a toon that does absolutely nothing without someone controlling it!

Can you get a title without your character? Are you seriously telling me you can gain a title without even logging into the game and accessing a character? You can just sit at the character selection screen and hit "E" until you are a master fisher. The title is an effort accomplished by you and your character. Takes both. If another character wasn't a part of that accomplishment they shouldn't get the title.

By your logic
If a character wasnt part of looting something he shoulnd have access to it at all
Make everything character bound
Outfit, currency, sets, sieges, maps, survey and everything else!
Delete bank because they are now useless

peacenote

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Are people really arguing that a character earned titles? Do their characters run around when they are asleep or something and they wake up to new titles? Seriously? The player earns titles, the character is nothing without the player... just log your character in, don't touch your keyboard and look at how much that character can accomplish.

How can we tell if someone is qualified if we don't know that character earned the title... come on really? Clue in, your toon doesn't earn anything, it's a toon that does absolutely nothing without someone controlling it!

Can you get a title without your character? Are you seriously telling me you can gain a title without even logging into the game and accessing a character? You can just sit at the character selection screen and hit "E" until you are a master fisher. The title is an effort accomplished by you and your character. Takes both. If another character wasn't a part of that accomplishment they shouldn't get the title.

By your logic
If a character wasnt part of looting something he shoulnd have access to it at all
Make everything character bound
Outfit, currency, sets, sieges, maps, survey and everything else!
Delete bank because they are now useless

I'd say it's more like all characters are part of a household. Like a family or part of a military barracks or whatever resonates most closely for how you think of your characters.

If you are associated with the other people in the household in some way... there's a place to which you all have access, you can touch and pick up and use all the things. You can go into your house mate's room and borrow their outfit. You can drink the milk they bought in a grocery store and picked up the store and is now in the fridge. In fact, you can even sneak into their room, steal one of their medals (titles!) and put it on and go out in the world and pretend you earned it.

However, one thing that can't happen is that each person can't do the activity in exactly the same way at exactly the same time at exactly the same moment. One person might buy milk today, the next person might buy milk tomorrow, they might go to the same store, back to back, and buy milk from the same clerk, but they can't do it simultaneously. If they decide to team up, one person pays, or if they split the cost, there still would be even a few seconds difference between splitting the charge or putting money on the counter.

Even with the character/player debate, this is true. A player cannot log on to multiple characters at once (unless they are spread across multiple accounts) so while the player might log in on a specific character to do activity xyz, and as a result all characters can access the item that came from xyz, only one character (member of the household) could possibly be doing the activity at that time. The characters can't do things when the player isn't playing, but even when the player is playing only one character is active.

THIS is why I feel account-wide titles were inevitable, because they were something to equip and use and almost everything else like this in ESO has become account-wide. I understand why some folks don't like it, but it was a direction we were going in for a long time. However, there should be a SEPARATE RECORD for when each character is guided through activity attached to the title, because they literally can't do the activity simultaneously. We are getting the records wiped out alongside the ability to use the titles. That's not like real life NOR does it accurately reflect what happens in game (using two characters at once) so that's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Official records should not look like all characters did the same thing at exactly the same time. They absolutely didn't.

Even if you take the stance that I am a player and the characters are nothing, I would compare it to winning a medal multiple years in a row. You get a medal each time you win the competition. If you win it a second time, the people don't say "ehhh, you won last year so this time it doesn't count." Nope. The record books show that you won the award two years in a row. You, a real person. The difference is, in ESO, the award is a pixelated title, so there's no benefit to having multiple copies of the identical words in a row, or multiple copies of the same skin. But you still DID the accomplishment twice and even if we pretend characters are no different than a different outfit, YOU did it a second time in a different outfit and normally there would be a record of this somewhere.

Therefore I feel players should be able to know when each character went through an activity that's tied to a reward, for themselves, but it doesn't necessarily mean OTHER people have to be 100% guaranteed that the reward was done by that character.

TheDarkRuler

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

Short: No. The new account-wide achievement was long overdue. It will - if anything - benefit the player base. From my POV this could be even further with Motifs and so on.

JKorr

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

Short: No. The new account-wide achievement was long overdue. It will - if anything - benefit the player base. From my POV this could be even further with Motifs and so on.

Being blocked from completing some quests will benefit me how? I have a main that has done just about all the achievements and titles I'm interested in getting. My new/newish alts won't be able to do the same quests, I believe the Adoring Fan is one example, because I've completed it with my main. It isn't a question of not getting credit; it is not being permitted to do the quest at all. Preventing me from replaying content I want to replay is a *benefit*? There are serious differences in our respective dictionaries if that is the definition of "benefit" in yours.

Feaky

IronWooshu wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If you have any questions or concerns about account wide achievements, please let us know. We can circle back with the dev team for feedback and get back to you.

@ZOS_Kevin I got a concern, what is the point of creating an alt now if all titles and achievements are unlocked? My new alt will literally have nothing to work towards and even when you do complete something you don't get the satisfaction or reward of completing it with that new character. It will literally take attachment from any new characters from us, I know it will for me.

This should be optional at least.

It is optional. Just hit 'C' to get your character screen and then select the drop down for "Titles". You can select whether or not you want to use any of the titles that either you or one of your alts earned.

Your welcome!

ElvenOverlord

Blinx wrote: »

trust me when I say no one is impressed by your titles, except you

That's wrong cause I'm impressed by it, especially if its a title that is challenging to achieve. It literally takes one person caring to prove this comment wrong lol.

JKorr

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Blinx wrote: »

trust me when I say no one is impressed by your titles, except you

That's wrong cause I'm impressed by it, especially if its a title that is challenging to achieve. It literally takes one person caring to prove this comment wrong lol.

You mean like the title people get by paying to get carried through earning it? How about Emperor? I found it interesting someone came to the forum to complain because the current emperor didn't accept his bribe to be killed so he could get the title for a few minutes. If someone actually thinks that most of the titles that can be cheesed/carried/bribed to get are impressive, well, good for them.

Titles that used to be impressive like Master Angler, Grandmaster Crafter, Librarian actually had to be worked for; whether that continues to be true with the AWA remains to be seen. From what people have been posting, the crafter title doesn't have a lot of work involved if you have alts that know the basics....

sarahthes

JKorr wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Blinx wrote: »

trust me when I say no one is impressed by your titles, except you

That's wrong cause I'm impressed by it, especially if its a title that is challenging to achieve. It literally takes one person caring to prove this comment wrong lol.

You mean like the title people get by paying to get carried through earning it? How about Emperor? I found it interesting someone came to the forum to complain because the current emperor didn't accept his bribe to be killed so he could get the title for a few minutes. If someone actually thinks that most of the titles that can be cheesed/carried/bribed to get are impressive, well, good for them.

Titles that used to be impressive like Master Angler, Grandmaster Crafter, Librarian actually had to be worked for; whether that continues to be true with the AWA remains to be seen. From what people have been posting, the crafter title doesn't have a lot of work involved if you have alts that know the basics....

I don't care if others care about my titles. I care that I care about my titles. And I'm thrilled that the one trifecta I got on my necro can be used on my main if I want, because I hate that trial and don't want to go back into it on my main ever again.

Giving someone more options in this sort of scenario is always better than artificially restricting them.

The_Boggart

If I see the title 'MasterAngler' in the future can I assume the owner of that title as got it from running a fleet of trawlers.

xaraan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

N00BxV1 wrote: »

Make the achievements and titles gilded for the characters that have earned them:

- Character_A: "World's Best Player" (earned on another character, not gilded)
- Character_B: "World's Best Player" (earned on this character, gilded)

This is probably the best idea I've seen on this problem.

Making character earned titles gold and shared ones silver or something like that. Gives title availability to all characters, but still gives those who have worked hard to earn it on every character something to show for it.

That just allows people to easily gatekeep others through a Scarlet Letter. I think having something like earned on --/---/-- on your achievement list so that you can still track your individual achievements is better.

Yea, I've already rethought my stance on this when discussing it in another thread.

The whole drama surrounding the account wide titles is IMO a bit lame.

Titles mean absolutely nothing to anyone but who earns them, so the display of them is meaningless b/c that is for others to see.

People can buy titles by paying for carries.

People that earned a title during the first months of content launch like VMA worked a million times harder for their title than anyone running it today due to power creep and nerfs.

A lot of titles are just time sinks.

They really are about the same to me as costumes and the like. Just another decoration for creating the look and feel of your character. So all the people trying to gatekeep it need to chill.

peacenote

sarahthes wrote: »

Giving someone more options in this sort of scenario is always better than artificially restricting them.

Generally speaking I agree with this from every angle, especially in a game that has the mantra of "play the way you want" or however it's worded.

Therefore it's a shame that ZOS got it backwards. Titles should have gone account-wide with everything else years ago, but AwA should have added an overview so people could go by account achievements or character achievements or enjoy both. More options is almost always better, although I'm sure there's an exception to everything.

I do feel bad for the folks that worked hard for their titles but part of the issue is that titles (and skins and whatnot) all vary greatly on whether they are hard to get or easy or just time consuming. That means unless ZOS created a custom rule for every time (this title is easy, it can be shared across accounts, this skin is a badge of honor for a trifecta, only the character that earned it can wear it...) it is impossible to cover both sides. But rewards have been going account wide for quite some time which means this was kind of inevitable.

Spiritrush

peacenote wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Giving someone more options in this sort of scenario is always better than artificially restricting them.

Generally speaking I agree with this from every angle, especially in a game that has the mantra of "play the way you want" or however it's worded.

Therefore it's a shame that ZOS got it backwards. Titles should have gone account-wide with everything else years ago, but AwA should have added an overview so people could go by account achievements or character achievements or enjoy both. More options is almost always better, although I'm sure there's an exception to everything.

I do feel bad for the folks that worked hard for their titles but part of the issue is that titles (and skins and whatnot) all vary greatly on whether they are hard to get or easy or just time consuming. That means unless ZOS created a custom rule for every time (this title is easy, it can be shared across accounts, this skin is a badge of honor for a trifecta, only the character that earned it can wear it...) it is impossible to cover both sides. But rewards have been going account wide for quite some time which means this was kind of inevitable.

I think it is clear the manner in which the AWA was implemented caused the significant issues we warned about, affecting player gameplay experience, game replayability, content creator motivation, and ultimately (among other issues) player retention.

I still believe that fixing this issue (even if an imperfect fix that combines pre-AWA backup data and current AWA data) is in the best interest of the players and the longevity of the game.

I also wish these forums were managed in such a way that we as players knew whether feedback was actually being listened to. Other major MMOs have clearly identified team member roles whose sole job is to glean, organize, present to developers, and communicate with players what the major gameplay issues are identified to be, and what stage they are at in terms of current and future development/fixes. Instead, we generally feel left in the dark by the developers, and in a vacuum forums are cluttered with more inter-player responses who miss the point of a post than need to be - and then the implementation is simply forced through regardless of proper, useful, constructive feedback. Communication solves so much more than the absence of communication.

Update: Note that the term 'anti-pattern' was originally coined based on ineffective software development.

EmEm_Oh

What we need is more specifics in the achievement menus, which tell you which character got the achievement initially, and then have the option to check a box for each additional character to "fulfill achievement through questing" or something like it so your other characters can have fun questing.

Is that NOT what ESO is all about?

As it is, it's confusing.

Amottica

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

What we need is more specifics in the achievement menus, which tell you which character got the achievement initially, and then have the option to check a box for each additional character to "fulfill achievement through questing" or something like it so your other characters can have fun questing.

Is that NOT what ESO is all about?

As it is, it's confusing.

The additional information per character being removed from the servers was the secondary reason for doing AWA. For every character that we have logged into their achievement data no longer exists.

BTW, I agree that it would have been better to have AWA but also character or something similar. I (I am sure many of us) had suggested AWA with keeping character info well before Zenimax announced this change.

SkaraMinoc

Some of my titles took years to earn. I'd be pissed if I had to do them all over again on another character.

Xarc

account wide achivement was the worst feature added to the game

we really did not need that.

Tandor

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Some of my titles took years to earn. I'd be pissed if I had to do them all over again on another character.

You wouldn't have had to if you didn't want to. Unfortunately, those who do want to no longer have the option.

Spiritrush

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Some of my titles took years to earn. I'd be pissed if I had to do them all over again on another character.

Yes, I think you've misunderstood. As Tandor said, you wouldn't have to if you didn't want to.

Your message perfectly illustrates my point above:

"Instead, we generally feel left in the dark by the developers, and in a vacuum forums are cluttered with more inter-player responses who miss the point of a post than need to be - and then the implementation is simply forced through regardless of proper, useful, constructive feedback. Communication solves so much more than the absence of communication. Update: Note that the term 'anti-pattern' was originally coined based on ineffective software development."

Cheers.

TiberX

NO!

Kesstryl

TiberX wrote: »

NO!

YES!

I mean, AwA doesn't have to go away, we just wanted to have both AwA and Individual character achievements.

I think maps, dungeons, trials, WB, delves, wayshrine unlocking, and story quests should have all been character achievements. All the cumulative stuff like how many monsters killed as an example and titles should be account wide, just like colors and style pages.

Even then, keeping what we had for our alts and then putting a new system to combine achievements to the account would have satisfied everyone. If other MMOs could do it, why couldn't ESO?

SkaraMinoc

Spiritrush wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Some of my titles took years to earn. I'd be pissed if I had to do them all over again on another character.

Yes, I think you've misunderstood. As Tandor said, you wouldn't have to if you didn't want to.

Your message perfectly illustrates my point above:

"Instead, we generally feel left in the dark by the developers, and in a vacuum forums are cluttered with more inter-player responses who miss the point of a post than need to be - and then the implementation is simply forced through regardless of proper, useful, constructive feedback. Communication solves so much more than the absence of communication. Update: Note that the term 'anti-pattern' was originally coined based on ineffective software development."

Cheers.

I entered the thread, read the first post, and clicked Reply. Agreed that online forums, while popular in the 1990's and 2000's, are now considered an anti-pattern.

lusshtgarel

I think it was a great change. It's still the same person doing the achievement, and character-bound achievements were very inconvenient imo.

blue_peaceful_Manticore

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

It's all ok Mate.

If one Healer can heal solo vSS and get achivm now he is the perfect DD for portals.
If one DD can complete vRG with no die and get his achivm, he is the perfect tank for vRG.

Achivments prove it.

I see no problem at all.

Xarc

Kesstryl wrote: »

TiberX wrote: »

NO!

YES!

I mean, AwA doesn't have to go away, we just wanted to have both AwA and Individual character achievements.

I think maps, dungeons, trials, WB, delves, wayshrine unlocking, and story quests should have all been character achievements. All the cumulative stuff like how many monsters killed as an example and titles should be account wide, just like colors and style pages.

Even then, keeping what we had for our alts and then putting a new system to combine achievements to the account would have satisfied everyone. If other MMOs could do it, why couldn't ESO?

brandolini's law : 3sec,3letters to write a lie/absurd content/falsehood and many pages of explanation to describe why it's bullsh!t.

Shihp00

Give extra reward (like a Flying Mount) to whoever unlocked every achievement on all of their characters. Bet you lazy players would be boycotting the game over it

Dark_Lord_Kuro

EnKor wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

It's all ok Mate.

If one Healer can heal solo vSS and get achivm now he is the perfect DD for portals.
If one DD can complete vRG with no die and get his achivm, he is the perfect tank for vRG.

Achivments prove it.

I see no problem at all.

Nothing ever stoped a dps that had a trial trifecta to respec to a tank and still habe the achievement

NOTHING NEW HERE!