Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

dinokstrunz

Xebov wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Achievements should be account wide but titles should NEVER be account wide. That's so dumb if so, not even WoW had lowbie characters running around with Kingslayers etc. Nothing will ever hold value in this game soon.

Why shouldnt they be? There is no harm at all in having them available on an account at all. If someone managed to get Godslayer and want to have a level 3 character using the title why shouldnt they? After all they earned it.

I was debating this with my friends and most disagree with me which is fine and I'm sure a lot of other people will. But to me achievements & titles instantly lose any value and inventiveness which these changes. That's just my opinion after all, they don't feel like achievements anymore at least to me. These changes to me are all rather pointless but devalue the game for me.

tmbrinks

guarstompemoji wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

Brinks, I got hate mail for adding slightly different color to text within a game, once.

The human brain can wire against change.

As a support player, I am loving this. The raid lead wants my warden healer instead of my templar? Great! My necro? Awesome! I don't need to worry about stacking the clears on one character.

For roleplay, this is awesome! I want to earn the Lord or Lady title, then use that on a new character to play an estranged young and bumbling noble? Awesome!

But your good/noble character now has the assassin title.

Your thief character now has the Benefactor title.

It cuts both ways.

Give account-wide overview. You can see that yeah you got GS and GH on your warden, but got TTT and DB on your tempar, but you can show you've gotten all 4 on your account.

Wolf_Eye

tmbrinks wrote: »

guarstompemoji wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

Brinks, I got hate mail for adding slightly different color to text within a game, once.

The human brain can wire against change.

As a support player, I am loving this. The raid lead wants my warden healer instead of my templar? Great! My necro? Awesome! I don't need to worry about stacking the clears on one character.

For roleplay, this is awesome! I want to earn the Lord or Lady title, then use that on a new character to play an estranged young and bumbling noble? Awesome!

But your good/noble character now has the assassin title.

Your thief character now has the Benefactor title.

It cuts both ways.

But that doesn't mean you have to use those titles on those characters.

I respect that you do not like this, but please understand there are those of us who do. Please don't try to take away our choice in attempting to preserve your own choice. There must be a better solution.

karekiz

tmbrinks wrote: »

Give account-wide overview. You can see that yeah you got GS and GH on your warden, but got TTT and DB on your tempar, but you can show you've gotten all 4 on your account.

I honestly can't see an issue with this. Who cares?

tmbrinks

.

karekiz wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Give account-wide overview. You can see that yeah you got GS and GH on your warden, but got TTT and DB on your tempar, but you can show you've gotten all 4 on your account.

I honestly can't see an issue with this. Who cares?

It's a thing called sensible changes. Something I have to do as a leader at my job when negotiating for salary/benefits/etc for my job and the other 100+ people I represent.

It seems a lot here are for the Win/Lose outcome (which as stated in the live stream, this is, there are winners and there are losers) instead of trying to find a Win/Win that lets everybody feel respected for their time/effort/gameplay/etc...

M0ntie

It would be good to see which character actually got the achievement.
People aren’t equally skilled on all character types and this is important for the very end game titles. The end game titles are the main reason many long term players play.
This change seems another kick in the guts by ZoS for people who have put the effort into the hardest titles on multiple characters.

spartaxoxo

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

An account overview doesn't give people who want account wide achievements anything they want, and is not a compromise. I wouldn't have the option to equip a title I wanted to use that I earned on character to another. I couldn't buy an achievement furnishing without having to swap toons. I'd still be unable to swap toons in groups because it would screw up my achievement progress to do it in the wrong character.

An overview saying character x has an achievement that character y doesn't is just rubbing the current system in our face at all times and is not at all a compromise. A compromise means we both can get at least something we want.

It's impossible to compromise when one side claims even having the option to do what you want is an affront. Like you don't want the titles available to you, not even equipped, just available to be equipped to someone who wants it. So, there's no compromise available.

MaddPowered

This change completely kills all replayability with raiding, whats the point in ever joining a progression team / play with multiple teams on different characters ever again if you can just get it once and that's it forever.

Raid trifecta titles should remain character specific lol

tmbrinks

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

An account overview doesn't give people who want account wide achievements anything they want is not a compromise. I wouldn't have the option to equip a title I wanted to use that I earned on character to another. I couldn't buy an achievement furnishing without having to swap toons. I'd still be unable to swap toons in groups because it would screw up my achievement progress to do it in the wrong character.

An overview saying character x has an achievement that character y doesn't is just rubbing the current system in and is not at all a compromise. A compromise means we both can get at least something we want.

So, you're okay with taking away how some people play the entire game, so you don't have to character swap to buy a furnishing? Done well, the overview can take into account "partial achievements" earned on 1 character and finished on another.

A compromise is a Win/Win. Not the clear Win/Lose this is where there are winners and losers.

Wrakz

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

You ever heard of ESO Logs?

How would it be any different than a paid carry? How would it be any different than linking achievements like its 2015? You've no idea if that's legit or not because you could also just ask someone else to link theirs and then link that one.

Not to mention there is also an Armory System now (though this could've been before this, just way more convenient now). You could have done Godslayer or something on a tank then became a DPS main. Now everyone will assume you've done it as DPS. But still, if you've put in the effort to to earn these titles, chances are you know the ins and outs of the trial REGARDLESS of said role.

Wolf_Eye

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

An account overview doesn't give people who want account wide achievements anything they want, and is not a compromise. I wouldn't have the option to equip a title I wanted to use that I earned on character to another. I couldn't buy an achievement furnishing without having to swap toons. I'd still be unable to swap toons in groups because it would screw up my achievement progress to do it in the wrong character.

An overview saying character x has an achievement that character y doesn't is just rubbing the current system in our face at all times and is not at all a compromise. A compromise means we both can get at least something we want.

It's impossible to compromise when one side claims even having the option to do what you want is an affront. Like you don't want the titles available to you, not even equipped, just available to be equipped to someone who wants it. So, there's no compromise available.

I think it should be when you log in for the first time after the patch, you have to pick one or the other: you either have individual character achievements or global achievements. Once you pick, you can't ever change your choice; it's permanent.

That would give people the option of their choice while also having a note of finality to it.

spartaxoxo

tmbrinks wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

An account overview doesn't give people who want account wide achievements anything they want is not a compromise. I wouldn't have the option to equip a title I wanted to use that I earned on character to another. I couldn't buy an achievement furnishing without having to swap toons. I'd still be unable to swap toons in groups because it would screw up my achievement progress to do it in the wrong character.

An overview saying character x has an achievement that character y doesn't is just rubbing the current system in and is not at all a compromise. A compromise means we both can get at least something we want.

So, you're okay with taking away how some people play the entire game, so you don't have to character swap to buy a furnishing? Done well, the overview can take into account "partial achievements" earned on 1 character and finished on another.

A compromise is a Win/Win. Not the clear Win/Lose this is where there are winners and losers.

When your playstyle takes away my playstyle, then yes. It's not a win win for me to know my character has progress on something. I already know that. I get literally nothing out of that.

Something like a toggle or a character sync would be a compromise, because then I could have account wide achievements and you don't have to opt in.

But when you claim that even having the option to have account wide achievements is ruining the game for you, I can't compromise on that because you're saying I should get nothing at all that I want, and pretending an interface that rubs that in is throwing me a bone.

spartaxoxo

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

An account overview doesn't give people who want account wide achievements anything they want, and is not a compromise. I wouldn't have the option to equip a title I wanted to use that I earned on character to another. I couldn't buy an achievement furnishing without having to swap toons. I'd still be unable to swap toons in groups because it would screw up my achievement progress to do it in the wrong character.

An overview saying character x has an achievement that character y doesn't is just rubbing the current system in our face at all times and is not at all a compromise. A compromise means we both can get at least something we want.

It's impossible to compromise when one side claims even having the option to do what you want is an affront. Like you don't want the titles available to you, not even equipped, just available to be equipped to someone who wants it. So, there's no compromise available.

I think it should be when you log in for the first time after the patch, you have to pick one or the other: you either have individual character achievements or global achievements. Once you pick, you can't ever change your choice; it's permanent.

That would give people the option of their choice while also having a note of finality to it.

Yeah. Something like that could work. I don't think declining it should be permanent but syncing it up should be.

Something like "would you like to sync this character's achievements with your account? Warning: This cannot be undone!"

An the account wide achievements are all of your synced achievements.

Xebov

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Achievements should be account wide but titles should NEVER be account wide. That's so dumb if so, not even WoW had lowbie characters running around with Kingslayers etc. Nothing will ever hold value in this game soon.

Why shouldnt they be? There is no harm at all in having them available on an account at all. If someone managed to get Godslayer and want to have a level 3 character using the title why shouldnt they? After all they earned it.

I was debating this with my friends and most disagree with me which is fine and I'm sure a lot of other people will. But to me achievements & titles instantly lose any value and inventiveness which these changes. That's just my opinion after all, they don't feel like achievements anymore at least to me. These changes to me are all rather pointless but devalue the game for me.

So its personal preference. I can respect that.

tmbrinks wrote: »

.

karekiz wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Give account-wide overview. You can see that yeah you got GS and GH on your warden, but got TTT and DB on your tempar, but you can show you've gotten all 4 on your account.

I honestly can't see an issue with this. Who cares?

It's a thing called sensible changes. Something I have to do as a leader at my job when negotiating for salary/benefits/etc for my job and the other 100+ people I represent.

It seems a lot here are for the Win/Lose outcome (which as stated in the live stream, this is, there are winners and there are losers) instead of trying to find a Win/Win that lets everybody feel respected for their time/effort/gameplay/etc...

Iam all for getting it done in a way that all players somehow benefit. However there are 2 things to consider here. The first is that the player base created strong walls on both sides, you always had players that liked it the way it is and the players that wanted it otherwise and noone was willing to compromise. Even the compromise of having both was not accepted by some. The second is that the game did it differently from otehr games and having all these achievments for each character likely also puts some preasure on the database given that each achievment has 2 values (progress and timestamp) to it. So changing it might also have technical reasons to improve database performance.

SerenityC84

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Could it not be optional?

I hope so. I was initially excited but the more I think about it... I'm not sure I want this.

Serenez

tmbrinks wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

An account overview doesn't give people who want account wide achievements anything they want is not a compromise. I wouldn't have the option to equip a title I wanted to use that I earned on character to another. I couldn't buy an achievement furnishing without having to swap toons. I'd still be unable to swap toons in groups because it would screw up my achievement progress to do it in the wrong character.

An overview saying character x has an achievement that character y doesn't is just rubbing the current system in and is not at all a compromise. A compromise means we both can get at least something we want.

So, you're okay with taking away how some people play the entire game, so you don't have to character swap to buy a furnishing? Done well, the overview can take into account "partial achievements" earned on 1 character and finished on another.

A compromise is a Win/Win. Not the clear Win/Lose this is where there are winners and losers.

I agree with tmbrinks.

I am not a role player as mentioned previously however there are a vast number of players that play for the RPG part of the MMO. I can appreciate how some players just want to achieve something once and move on and have it on all characters for convenience. That is one type of play style.

There are many however that replay their characters for the sole purpose of achieving character specific development.

What is seen as a QOL for some, will be the end of the game for others, depending on how this change is implemented. I personally do not care which of my characters get thieving achievements for instance, however I know of some players who have been very upset they got an achievement on a role playing character that is not a thieving character. Although it would not make a difference to me in my play style, I can respect how upsetting it is for others. I can only imagine how they would feel if all their toons shared these achievements. It would almost seem like there characters have lost their carefully chosen identify.

Players all play this game for their own enjoyment in their own way. Not everyone shares the same play style. Not everyone shares the same QOL requests. People are going to be impacted by this change to Account Wide Achievement in both a good and bad way. I hope that players recognize this and realize sometimes how a QOL for some may be detrimental to others.

Gaebriel0410

I think the whole 'link achievement / title X to prove Y' mindset is not very beneficial to anything.

The whole armchair elitist buildreader attitude you see so often on MMO forums is kinda weird, since the only thing indicative of player skill is.. well, actual player skill. Titles can be bought, carries exist, so it's mostly desperate flailing from those who wish to retain their exclusive pixel prestige.

You can already put the hideous amberplasm skin on your low level characters, and dye their gear with legate emperor black. Why not use the tick tock tinfoilhat title on them as well?

I deffo get the thrill of high level raiding, which can be very exciting but that gatekeepery attitude is completely unnecessary, and it is that exact attitude more than anything else, that actually threatens to ruin the fun for other players much more than any accountwide achievement could ever.. achieve.

Elsonso

guarstompemoji wrote: »

For roleplay, this is awesome! I want to earn the Lord or Lady title, then use that on a new character to play an estranged young and bumbling noble? Awesome!

I suppose that depends on what you want to role play, and how you want to do it. If your intent is to jump into a fully "end game" sort of role, where you have maximum flexibility and don't want to play the game to get there, then yes, it is an awesome step forward. I expect that ZOS will continue down this path, making more things account wide. This isn't for making role playing better, but it will probably benefit people who want to do this sort of thing.

If the intent is to develop the character with the goal of arriving at the "end game", rather than just jumping into it, then this is much less than awesome. With this type of role playing, the player may not want new characters living in the shadow of the ones that came before. This change is quite the splash of cold water.

Sadly, I grew up with RPGs meaning the latter, so this change is less than awesome for me. ZOS is not going in this direction with the game. I need to rethink my game play.

"End game" in quotes because I am not necessarily talking about trials and dungeons, but whatever the player is hoping to achieve long term by playing the game.

guarstompemoji wrote: »

It will calm down after, though.

It will. This is not the first time that ZOS has been a disappointment, and if the player can stomach the changes, things usually turn out OK. If they can't, well, then they leave, and things still turn out OK.

SASQUATCH0

I think people against it are over reacting a bit. They said on stream that there will still be character locked achievement/titles. We will probably get a list of those included/not included in the pts patch notes.

Lady_Galadhiel

I did delicately keep my main character away from Dark brotherhood,she never even entered the sanctuary but she should then get all achievements unlocked for it what my thief assassin Khajiit did?
Honestly I can see some people wanting this but I don't.
So if it would be optional everyone would benefit.

phairdon

WraithShadow13 wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development.

How?

I'm one person playing a game. If i unlock something, i want it to be UNLOCKED for me, not conditional. I don't want to have to go through and redo it over and over and over again for every character. How many times do i have to earn something before i've actually earned it?

^

Psiion

Greetings all,

After review, we have removed a few posts and would like to leave a reminder for everyone to keep the discussion respectful and within the Forum's Community Rules. Baiting is simply never appropriate on the ESO Forums.

Please keep the Community Rules in mind moving forward.

tuxon

maboleth wrote: »

This one is a khajiit of level 1 in a robe and no sword, but already kitted with Emperor title.

Talk about further dumbing down the gameplay.

Make the titles to unlock after you beat level 50. Done.

Arthtur

It will feel soooo wierd not getting achievements after u do some HM or trifecta on a new character...

Can we just make titles account-wide and leave achievements alone? Or at least make this all optional choice?

Arunei

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I'm...confused.

People are claiming this will keep them doing content on other characters just because the title will be unlocked for the whole account. But how does the title being unlocked mean anything? You can still work towards getting your other characters geared up to complete the content that would give that title.

Just because you have the title doesn't mean you still can't do the content. Shouldn't you still get a sense of accomplishment if you manage to get any given character through some of the hardest content? They would have that title either way, the title itself doesn't matter, actually clearing the content on that character does.

I just really don't understand why people are acting like "title unlocked for account = no point in taking numerous characters through hard content". Just because you have that title unlocked for all your characters to use doesn't mean anything.

You gotta see it like this; if you worked towards a hard goal with a group there is nothing better then once you accomplish what you wanted the achievement unlocked thing appearing on your screen.

Am not an end gamer but honestly I think the "reward" is somewhat taken away if it's simply unlocked before actually completing it.

I would assume the reward is knowing any given character can complete the content. If the title is going to be unlocked either way once a given character completes any given piece of content...I don't know. I just don't see why people are saying there's no point in doing endgame stuff. If endgame was what I did I'd be more concerned with actually being able to beat it on X or Y character. It just seems like a non-issue to me, but maybe that's because I don't do that content.

Kikazaru

I'm happy to see this addition since I originally came from GW2 where achievements are account wide. I can finally play my other characters and work towards the same achievements that 'm currently doing on my main character.

I wonder what achievements will be excluded from the account wide category, and how ZOS will try to appease both crowds. Those who want account wide and those who want it to remain individualized.

A lot of people I know are overjoyed with this announcement; a few are not.

emilyhyoyeon

I am someone who rps but I don't really take issue with having the murderer achievements unlocked on a righteous character because achievements just don't really mean much to my rp. I can see how people who like having an ingame character-specific tracker of stuff wouldn't like this change, but for me it doesn't matter. The ingame achievement list has nothing to do with my rp, it's something I do whether achievements exist or not.

Varana

The problem with this is also that ESO achievements were designed to be character-specific, at least generally speaking.

Changing that now with low effort (just grant everyone everything) leads to weird consequences
- skill point progression (again, the Undaunted skill levels up by getting achievements, which you won't get anymore on new characters...)
- role-playing (people do want to avoid or specifically get certain achievements for certain characters and not others because for them, a character is more than just a tool)
- personal satisfaction (from having an achievement pop up to reward a challenging activity, to getting things on multiple characters to prove that you're able to do it)
- achievement progress (if I do the exact same four quests in Rivenspire on ten characters, will I get the "Rivenspire Adventurer" achievement?), and so on.
That's where the comparison with other games is not entirely helpful - specifically games that had account-wide achievements have their achievements designed with that fact taken into account. ESO did not.

These are all issues that can be overcome - but that needs effort, and work put into the system. Revamping certain achievements, implementing both character-based and account-based systems, reworking certain skill lines and quests, and a few other thing.
I'm not overly confident they're investing that kind of effort, though. I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised.

One note: If there were to be a toggle, I'd like to have that per achievement. I have nothing against just cheaply collapsing all achievements into one for some of them, but would like to have others separate. Choosing all-or-nothing is a really bad idea.

Oliviander

I am strictly against account wide achievements !!!
And all the reasons that I have, are mentioned above.
I subbed this game from the beginning, and I accepted
every change whether I liked it or not. (Adjust is the keyword)
But devaluing my hard earned achievements will totally demotivate me playing the game.
That said I wouldn't have a problem with an accountwide achievement board in addition
to the character achievements. (and I actually don't care for titles)
But if you take the possibility from me to track my achievements per character
meaning stripping my characters from all their 7 year long achievement history
that would be a mighty slap in the face !!!
And It might actually lead me into quitting ESO.

guarstompemoji

Fennwitty wrote: »

Achievements, titles and clears are currently not a foolproof system of validating a given character's "ability".

Yepyep. And why for "higher tiers," logs are required by some trials guilds.

There are many ways to certify if someone can do a thing. Logs, which are all over the trials community. Tossing them into a trial for 5 minutes. Asking them about a specific mech. Saying, "Go tank Lord Farquad on hm," and seeing if they panic.

I'd rather have better performance, more rp options, and some easing on support players, and the freedom to create a new character just for a new chapter, and enjoy it from their PoV, without worrying about stacking achievos on one. Single. Character.