Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

Dark_Lord_Kuro

irswat wrote: »

Definitely prefer to earn vanity titles on each toon. Just because I can do something on a dps doesnt mean I can perform at the same level for tank. I look forward to earning the title on multiple toons and I know Im not aline in that.

What was stoping you from respec that charater as a tank and still use the title?

TempestM

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Neferet wrote: »

I like that they will make it account-wide. If you're only grinding content to get a title (on multiple characters even), then I think that is pretty sad.

I play the game on different characters as I enjoy PLAYING THE GAME.

Achievements on each character help me measure my progress ie haven’t done that (no death hm for example) on this character, so that’s something to work towards. Not ‘grind’.

So yeah, maybe I am ‘sad’ in your opinion.

You don't know exactly how they work. There can easily be both account-wide achievement completion and a separate mark for a completion on this specific character so you would still be able to do the achievement

TempestM

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

irswat wrote: »

Definitely prefer to earn vanity titles on each toon. Just because I can do something on a dps doesnt mean I can perform at the same level for tank. I look forward to earning the title on multiple toons and I know Im not aline in that.

What was stoping you from respec that charater as a tank and still use the title?

Nothing. Also nothing stops from purchasing a carry run. Only something like having a log of the run or having a recommendation from other veterans would be an actual proof of completing something, but some prefer to be delusional about importance of their title to others (it's not as important to others. Deal with it)

Theros

Skyshards will be acount shared?
Mages guild?
Fighters guild?
Psijic Order?
Thiefs guild?

Xebov

HanYolo wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

It's still the same person doing it.

this misses the point entirely. If I can get a Godslayer on a DD, chances are I can do it on a diffrerent DD as well. But it doesn't mean I have any [snip] idea how to do it as a tank or healer. So why should my healer, that has maybe 10 hours played, be able to wear that title?

You could do godslayer on a character as DD and later change the character to be a Tank, according to your logic you should also not be able to wear the title then. In reality there is no limitation and players make more out of some Achievments than they realy are.

[edited to remove quote]

ArgonianAustin

I hope everything is account wide, skills points and alliance rank.

Hamiltonmath

Theros wrote: »

Skyshards will be acount shared?
Mages guild?
Fighters guild?
Psijic Order?
Thiefs guild?

None of those will

Hamiltonmath

Xebov wrote: »

HanYolo wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

It's still the same person doing it.

this misses the point entirely. If I can get a Godslayer on a DD, chances are I can do it on a diffrerent DD as well. But it doesn't mean I have any [snip] idea how to do it as a tank or healer. So why should my healer, that has maybe 10 hours played, be able to wear that title?

You could do godslayer on a character as DD and later change the character to be a Tank, according to your logic you should also not be able to wear the title then. In reality there is no limitation and players make more out of some Achievments than they realy are.

In the endgame, changing toons happens, but not like that. Most of us have tanks, dds, and healers of every reasonably viable class. We probably wouldn't change our dd to a tank tbh.

[edited to remove quote]

DP99

Who cares if you have extra titles in your list on other characters? It’s a list that no one else sees and you only select the one you want for a character anyway. It’s just a fun cosmetic thing.

Elsonso

barney2525 wrote: »

wow. Next thing we will be able to do is customize the character by swapping physical bodies. After all, nothing apparently is specific to the Character anymore. The Character has No individual Story to it. No Uniquemess. No Immersion. Once you gain access to something, Everything gonna be Account wide. So create a Breton with the body of a Khajiit. Make an Orc skills with High Elf body.

What is the point of 'earning' anything for a specific character, if Everything just gets put into Account wide access?

Yeah, this is a significant change for the game and there are 8 years worth of habits and patterns that can go away, at least in my case.

A lot of my game play is based on "oh, this character hasn't done ____ yet" and so I go do it, which takes me back into content that I may not have done in a while. It is a very organic way of repeating content.

I thought a lot about this last night, and while I don't chase after Achievements, I will certainly miss them. I started thinking about how they can continue down the path of Player rather than the path of Character and have some suggestions for @ZOS_Kevin

1. Think of characters as cosmetics. Avatars for the Player. How the Player appears in the game.
2. Skills can be account wide, so a new alt will immediately get the full set of skills that the Player has earned.
3. Similarly, new characters will get the Level, as well as the CP, that the Player has earned. This makes all XP for the account, not individual characters, which is basically what it means after Level 50, anyway.
4. Inventory mules are a big problem, so ZOS can eliminate the Player bank and just merge all of the bank and character inventory into a single huge inventory shared by all of the Player's characters. I am sure the size and how it grows can be worked out.

This eliminates the need for a "class change token" as the Player can just create and delete characters of any class and maintain progress and skills.

Xebov

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

HanYolo wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

It's still the same person doing it.

this misses the point entirely. If I can get a Godslayer on a DD, chances are I can do it on a diffrerent DD as well. But it doesn't mean I have any [snip] idea how to do it as a tank or healer. So why should my healer, that has maybe 10 hours played, be able to wear that title?

You could do godslayer on a character as DD and later change the character to be a Tank, according to your logic you should also not be able to wear the title then. In reality there is no limitation and players make more out of some Achievments than they realy are.

In the endgame, changing toons happens, but not like that. Most of us have tanks, dds, and healers of every reasonably viable class. We probably wouldn't change our dd to a tank tbh.

That still doesnt invalidat my point. I know that many players have dedicated characters, but if the argument was you could use it on a character with a different role than changing the role shows that the argument was bad to begin with.

Elsonso wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

wow. Next thing we will be able to do is customize the character by swapping physical bodies. After all, nothing apparently is specific to the Character anymore. The Character has No individual Story to it. No Uniquemess. No Immersion. Once you gain access to something, Everything gonna be Account wide. So create a Breton with the body of a Khajiit. Make an Orc skills with High Elf body.

What is the point of 'earning' anything for a specific character, if Everything just gets put into Account wide access?

A lot of my game play is based on "oh, this character hasn't done ____ yet" and so I go do it, which takes me back into content that I may not have done in a while. It is a very organic way of repeating content.

On the otehr side you have players that simply dont play other characters because they dont want their stuff to be spread out. I never play alts and that is one of the reasons.

[edited to remove quote]

adriant1978

As a long time player, this reminds me of the discussion when Champion Points replaced Veteran Ranks.

Theros

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Theros wrote: »

Skyshards will be acount shared?
Mages guild?
Fighters guild?
Psijic Order?
Thiefs guild?

None of those will

Then can anyone explain to me:
What's the point of share achivments? I can tell about what is bad about this. But, please, explain to me, what good will this add to the game? please

Arunei

I'm...confused.

People are claiming this will keep them doing content on other characters just because the title will be unlocked for the whole account. But how does the title being unlocked mean anything? You can still work towards getting your other characters geared up to complete the content that would give that title.

Just because you have the title doesn't mean you still can't do the content. Shouldn't you still get a sense of accomplishment if you manage to get any given character through some of the hardest content? They would have that title either way, the title itself doesn't matter, actually clearing the content on that character does.

I just really don't understand why people are acting like "title unlocked for account = no point in taking numerous characters through hard content". Just because you have that title unlocked for all your characters to use doesn't mean anything.

Edit to add I get what other people who use individual achieve progress to track what their characters have done and stuff like that are upset over. I'm specifically confused why people are acting like there's no reason to take characters who haven't gotten the achieve through hard content like trifectas just because those titles will be unlocked. Like...just because you have a character with the title doesn't mean that character can do the content. Isn't what matters actually proving that character can do it?

Lady_Galadhiel

Arunei wrote: »

I'm...confused.

People are claiming this will keep them doing content on other characters just because the title will be unlocked for the whole account. But how does the title being unlocked mean anything? You can still work towards getting your other characters geared up to complete the content that would give that title.

Just because you have the title doesn't mean you still can't do the content. Shouldn't you still get a sense of accomplishment if you manage to get any given character through some of the hardest content? They would have that title either way, the title itself doesn't matter, actually clearing the content on that character does.

I just really don't understand why people are acting like "title unlocked for account = no point in taking numerous characters through hard content". Just because you have that title unlocked for all your characters to use doesn't mean anything.

You gotta see it like this; if you worked towards a hard goal with a group there is nothing better then once you accomplish what you wanted the achievement unlocked thing appearing on your screen.

Am not an end gamer but honestly I think the "reward" is somewhat taken away if it's simply unlocked before actually completing it.

Arunei

Theros wrote: »

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Theros wrote: »

Skyshards will be acount shared?
Mages guild?
Fighters guild?
Psijic Order?
Thiefs guild?

None of those will

Then can anyone explain to me:
What's the point of share achivments? I can tell about what is bad about this. But, please, explain to me, what good will this add to the game? please

One big reason people don't like making new characters to try a new Class is because they don't want to lose achievement progress on what might be their main. Things like Emperor and Master Angler can be huge pains to get a single time, let alone on more than one character.

LyricsEcho

Achievements for main questing sure give the achievements. Titles earned should not be carried over.

wazzz56

man this makes all my Master Anglers way less of a weird flex lol

Aubrey_Kidona

xAKlMB0xSLlCEx wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If the titles are account wide, there is no reason in the future to continue playing once you've completed everything.

This is my thought as well. I don't have any trifectas yet, but I loved needing to Kite Heal vCR HM to get the title on that toon. I dont care how it looks to others. It gave me a reason to push and earn the clear on a different character/role. I had DPSed it previously. But earning that achievement on my healer was a big deal for me. All titles/achievements on all characters, earned or not makes me a bit said.

Elsonso

jecks33 wrote: »

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

This feels incredibly counter intuitive. It's like being allowed to wear your grandad's medals.

the person who wear a title earned on a different char is the same person who wear the same title on the current char, it's not his grandad's character

Yup.

Most character titles don't matter at all. They are simply cosmetic and should be associated only with the Player.

With all the respecs that happen, the character that earned a dungeon or combat related title probably doesn't even exist anymore, except in class. We can change everything else about the character. Those titles on a character ars meaningless.

The only titles that might actually still apply to the character that performed them are ones like Master Angler. Maybe a bad example as that one is entirely Player achievement. It isn't like the character did anything to catch all those fish. It was the Player that suffered through hours of mindless fishing.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So basically having played this for over 6 years with my main getting all my achievements, there is zero point in playing on any of my alts as they will all be completed?!


@ZOS_Kevin

I am in a similar boat. I spread out my achievements across different characters, and they are not the same across all of them. For 8 years, I have had the freedom to build alternate characters and duplicate, in part, things I had accomplished before, and also to accomplish new things that none of my other characters did. It will be interesting to see what they did on PTS and how this all changes.

Xebov wrote: »

On the otehr side you have players that simply dont play other characters because they dont want their stuff to be spread out. I never play alts and that is one of the reasons.

Certainly, and getting new people like that to join the game for a while is very important to the survival of ESO. Long term players that pick up a new character and repeat content for years and years are a tiny minority of the "20 million" players that have gone through the turnstiles.

Theros wrote: »

Then can anyone explain to me:
What's the point of share achivments? I can tell about what is bad about this. But, please, explain to me, what good will this add to the game? please

I attribute a lot of this to non-RPG games and the achievements and trophies that they have there. It is just normal for these things to be tracked by game, not by character within the game. Characters important to role playing games, but most other games with an in-game world just have avatars that represent the player.

(Edit: this seems to be the direction that ZOS is heading with ESO. Transitioning from a multiplayer RPG to a multiplayer adventure game, so it makes sense)

tmbrinks

Jaraal wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I do however, like the idea of having 16 Grand Master Crafters overnight. That will save me millions in materials.

But they won't actually have the skills learned to actually be a GMC... They mat not have the trait knowledge, the motifs, etc...

I thought it was achievements that would be account wide.

Did I miss something?

That's the point. The character will have the title of "Grand Master Crafter", but have researched no traits, know no motifs, and can't do the things that a Grand Master Crafter can do.

valkyrie93

What about pvp ranks tho

Casul

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I do however, like the idea of having 16 Grand Master Crafters overnight. That will save me millions in materials.

But they won't actually have the skills learned to actually be a GMC... They mat not have the trait knowledge, the motifs, etc...

I thought it was achievements that would be account wide.

Did I miss something?

That's the point. The character will have the title of "Grand Master Crafter", but have researched no traits, know no motifs, and can't do the things that a Grand Master Crafter can do.

The title indicates the player can though. For some of us the title isn't an indicator of the characters capabilities. It's what the player can do.

To me flawless conqueror on a level 10 vs CP 1200 means no difference. It's the player who I am evaluating based on that information.

TempestM

valkyrie93 wrote: »

What about pvp ranks tho

What about them? Alliance Rank is a separate bar

valkyrie93

TempestM wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

What about pvp ranks tho

What about them? Alliance Rank is a separate bar

...You get achievements, achievement points and titles for reaching a new pvp rank. Wondering if those will be account wide too

SerafinaWaterstar

BuildMan wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I do however, like the idea of having 16 Grand Master Crafters overnight. That will save me millions in materials.

But they won't actually have the skills learned to actually be a GMC... They mat not have the trait knowledge, the motifs, etc...

I thought it was achievements that would be account wide.

Did I miss something?

That's the point. The character will have the title of "Grand Master Crafter", but have researched no traits, know no motifs, and can't do the things that a Grand Master Crafter can do.

The title indicates the player can though. For some of us the title isn't an indicator of the characters capabilities. It's what the player can do.

To me flawless conqueror on a level 10 vs CP 1200 means no difference. It's the player who I am evaluating based on that information.

Strictly speaking, when it comes to Grand Master Crafter, it is totally character based - which character has read the motifs & researched all traits.

Tandor

Elsonso wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

A title is something earned by the player. Players don't suddenly lose knowledge of how to do something just because they are on a different character. And titles can be purchased from other players anyway.

Horse race vs car race. In one, the achievement is earned by the horse (character), and the other, by the driver (player). ESO is less horse race and more NASCAR.

Tandor wrote: »

Wait, if one of your characters topped the leaderboard, would all of your other characters top it too? Because that's the logical implication of all the characters sharing achievements and titles !

Under global achievements, the leaderboards should not even mention character names. Only player names.

That would certainly get rid of discussions about class balance, as nobody would know which classes featured where in the leaderboards.

TechMaybeHic

Make friends. Play with them and then you know the capability of who you're playing with. Not sure how titles help that.

Greg11jkalfa

karekiz wrote: »

This new system ruins character development. How can we trust people know what they are doing now?

If someone obtains an achievement now on one character, but doesn't have it on another, in order to "prove themselves" they have to swap characters to the one that has it, potentially in order to get it for that next character. In some rare cases, people likely deleted characters with achievements they may need to "prove themselves" for any number of reasons, but suddenly have no proof they've done the work before. With account wide, you simply obtain it once, and then never need to worry about what character you're on, because you'll always have it available to show. The change only serves to prevent people from having to get achievements on every single character. If anything, now you have an even easier time being able to check people, because if they have indeed done it before, and therefore likely have the knowledge on whatever trial or dungeon, you can easily know without them needing to swap, or make sure they save the character with that achievement already unlocked.

It cannot be stressed enough, you still have to actually have the achievement unlocked, this does not mean the work was never done, it only means it may not have been done on that specific character.

Tandor

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.

It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.

No it doesn't, not for those whose reason to want to avoid repeating achievements is so that the character they levelled to 50 at Alik'r's dolmen can move straight to endgame. Those who make new alts in order to repeat content with them are likely to be the ones against this change because it takes away the personal satisfaction from repeating the content if they've already been credited with their first character's rewards for doing so.

I do agree, however, that the community is divided on this, and that is why it's odd for ZOS to have decided to implement it. Usually they say that if .e.g. some like guild traders and some like auction houses, they'll stick with it as it is, similarly when some like the idea of PvP in PvE areas and some don't, they say they'll leave it as it is. Somehow they've approached this one differently, unless they truly didn't realise how much of a game-breaker this would be for a lot of players. I hope that @ZOS_Kevin is following these feedback threads and reporting back just how much of a deal this change is for a lot of us. It needs to be optional.