Account Wide Titles ruin Titles

Fennwitty

Achievements, titles and clears are currently not a foolproof system of validating a given character's "ability".

Some trials guilds have requirements like "must have done trial X hard mode/trifecta" etc. and that 'certifies' a character, but it was never foolproof due to carries existing.

Personally I think that titles applying to the player rather than the character makes sense in many instances.

If you got Battleground Butcher or Former Emperor on one character, but now you're sick of that character -- you won't be a total scrub for long on your new character. You probably have tons of CP and the real experience behind fighting.

Sure you make a new level 1 character and technically *can* call it a Former Emperor. And that will be a little awkward until you hit level 50 and get your new build right.

But you can still probably wipe the floor with the majority of other players regardless. And when you go to Cyro, your opinions in /zone or /group on what the next tactical move should be should not be discounted simply because you're on a new character and grinding the AP skill lines.

SerafinaWaterstar

Tandor wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.

It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.

No it doesn't, not for those whose reason to want to avoid repeating achievements is so that the character they levelled to 50 at Alik'r's dolmen can move straight to endgame. Those who make new alts in order to repeat content with them are likely to be the ones against this change because it takes away the personal satisfaction from repeating the content if they've already been credited with their first character's rewards for doing so.

I do agree, however, that the community is divided on this, and that is why it's odd for ZOS to have decided to implement it. Usually they say that if .e.g. some like guild traders and some like auction houses, they'll stick with it as it is, similarly when some like the idea of PvP in PvE areas and some don't, they say they'll leave it as it is. Somehow they've approached this one differently, unless they truly didn't realise how much of a game-breaker this would be for a lot of players. I hope that @ZOS_Kevin is following these feedback threads and reporting back just how much of a deal this change is for a lot of us. It needs to be optional.

^^this^^

Thank you @Tandor for your post. Much more rational than mine which are being coloured by the anger & frustration I feel about this.

Elsonso

Tandor wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

If we feel it is bad then it isn't stupid to say so. A big part of an MMOs success is content being repeated. Account wide achievements take away the incentive to repeat content on multiple characters. That is bad for the game.

It taking away your incentive to use multiple characters =/= taking away the incentive for the game. While many have said that they are less likely to use alts now, many others have said they are MORE likely to use them because they know that they won't be "hurting" their main's achievement progress. And making new alts tends to come hand in hand with repeating content.

No it doesn't, not for those whose reason to want to avoid repeating achievements is so that the character they levelled to 50 at Alik'r's dolmen can move straight to endgame. Those who make new alts in order to repeat content with them are likely to be the ones against this change because it takes away the personal satisfaction from repeating the content if they've already been credited with their first character's rewards for doing so.

Exactly. I don't give a skeever's butt about dolmen runs. If it takes a while to level up to 50, then it takes a while. Looking back, I find that I am quite possibly not playing a game that is a good fit for me. I mean, it used to be fairly close, but it has been drifting away rather steadily as it seeks approval from players that don't share the same goals in an MMORPG game with me.

Tandor wrote: »

I do agree, however, that the community is divided on this, and that is why it's odd for ZOS to have decided to implement it. Usually they say that if .e.g. some like guild traders and some like auction houses, they'll stick with it as it is, similarly when some like the idea of PvP in PvE areas and some don't, they say they'll leave it as it is. Somehow they've approached this one differently, unless they truly didn't realise how much of a game-breaker this would be for a lot of players. I hope that @ZOS_Kevin is following these feedback threads and reporting back just how much of a deal this change is for a lot of us. It needs to be optional.

I am also surprised. This is a big change for the game, and one that is rather polarizing. ZOS is no stranger to making polarizing decisions, and I am sure they have lost some players for it. I am curious as to how this will unfold next week.

I think ZOS is very dedicated to the idea of removing the "ESO is grindy" commentary with changes like these, and several other changes in the last year that work to bypass the "grind". I am also curious to see if this is what the game needed, when people look back in a couple years at these changes.

Jeffrey530

HanYolo wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

It's still the same person doing it.

this misses the point entirely. If I can get a Godslayer on a DD, chances are I can do it on a diffrerent DD as well. But it doesn't mean I have any [snip] idea how to do it as a tank or healer. So why should my healer, that has maybe 10 hours played, be able to wear that title?

The idea of account wide achievements is nice, if you think about something like monster trophies. But since anything that is bound to skillpoints wont be affected it is completely uselss. Because heaven forbid we comprosmise anything in the crownstore that some poor soul might waste a few bucks on.

Account wide riding lessons or skillpoints? Yes please, that would be a huge quality of life improvement. But we are getting achievements and a lot of unnecessary confusion with it. Why? Because it compromises nothing that has already been implemented in the crown store and might just silence some voices of complaint, while screwing over the silent majority that had no issue with the current system of achievments.

What kind of logic is that?Say if you got the godslayer on your dd, should you lose the title then if you respec your dd into a healer?

Edit: someone mentioned it already, cosmetics are already account wide lol, so your healer can already use the senche earned in the godslayer acheivement even if he/she 'doesn't deserve it'.

[edited to remove quote]

Jeffrey530

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Neferet wrote: »

I like that they will make it account-wide. If you're only grinding content to get a title (on multiple characters even), then I think that is pretty sad.

I play the game on different characters as I enjoy PLAYING THE GAME.

Achievements on each character help me measure my progress ie haven’t done that (no death hm for example) on this character, so that’s something to work towards. Not ‘grind’.

So yeah, maybe I am ‘sad’ in your opinion.

Great, measure it yourself then lol.

Serenez

I am very pleased that Motifs will not be included in the account wide achievements as this could have game economy repercussions, as Motifs known affect drop rates of Master Writs etc.

I would also suggest excluding Master Angler from the account wide achievement as well. For those that have put in not just hours or days but months of their valuable time earning this on each character, it would negate all that hard work and time. That title that they have earned on all their characters is worth of a lot of respect in my opinion, would be meaningless if everyone could earn it on all characters. I remember a post on these forums of a player that captured the moment that each of their characters achieved this title. I have to say it was impressive and something imo to be proud of to earn as it took a lot of time and dedication to achieve that. With account wide achievements it would no longer carry that same meaning.

Although I am not a 'role-player' I do foresee a displeasure with the role players with account wide achievements, as some are very careful as to not get certain achievements on certain characters.

@ZOS_Kevin Solution - Make an option to opt in per character via the character log in screen. Click apply account wide achievements yes or no on a per character basis.

Not everyone will agree with me and that is fine. I both accept and expect that.

SerafinaWaterstar

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Neferet wrote: »

I like that they will make it account-wide. If you're only grinding content to get a title (on multiple characters even), then I think that is pretty sad.

I play the game on different characters as I enjoy PLAYING THE GAME.

Achievements on each character help me measure my progress ie haven’t done that (no death hm for example) on this character, so that’s something to work towards. Not ‘grind’.

So yeah, maybe I am ‘sad’ in your opinion.

Great, measure it yourself then lol.

Why should I have to when there is a perfectly adequate way of doing so already in the game?

Why not have this as optional, for those ‘sad’ players that like to ‘grind’ the achievements?

Xebov

Fennwitty wrote: »

Some trials guilds have requirements like "must have done trial X hard mode/trifecta" etc. and that 'certifies' a character, but it was never foolproof due to carries existing.

This has nothing to do with caries. Achievments dont link to a specific characters achievments, they are just a generic link to that achievment followed by a timestamp. This means you could simply copy them out of the game and resuse them on any character or account you like. Thats frequently done that players lend links to eahc other to help them out getting somewhere. You could also simply use an unfinished one, edit it and use it in game. So regardless of carries even existing, the system was never foolproof and would never have been even without carries.

Remathilis

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

HanYolo wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

It's still the same person doing it.

this misses the point entirely. If I can get a Godslayer on a DD, chances are I can do it on a diffrerent DD as well. But it doesn't mean I have any [snip] idea how to do it as a tank or healer. So why should my healer, that has maybe 10 hours played, be able to wear that title?

The idea of account wide achievements is nice, if you think about something like monster trophies. But since anything that is bound to skillpoints wont be affected it is completely uselss. Because heaven forbid we comprosmise anything in the crownstore that some poor soul might waste a few bucks on.

Account wide riding lessons or skillpoints? Yes please, that would be a huge quality of life improvement. But we are getting achievements and a lot of unnecessary confusion with it. Why? Because it compromises nothing that has already been implemented in the crown store and might just silence some voices of complaint, while screwing over the silent majority that had no issue with the current system of achievments.

What kind of logic is that?Say if you got the godslayer on your dd, should you lose the title then if you respec your dd into a healer?

Edit: someone mentioned it already, cosmetics are already account wide lol, so your healer can already use the senche earned in the godslayer acheivement even if he/she 'doesn't deserve it'.

You know, I just made a brand new level 1 character that I outfitted in the Emperor's regalia costume (dyed regicide red, bedlam purple and void pitch), added the sul-xan raider face and body marks, the z'maj's shadow skin (made seeing the markings difficult, big design fail) and equipped the beast personality and mounted the Sunspire champion senche. Then looked at my level 1 toon and thought "this whole system is a bit rubbish, in it?"

[edited to remove quote]

Drammanoth

titles are meaningless, but COLOURS' - if account-wide - accessibility will be of huge benefit.

IronWooshu

Drammanoth wrote: »

titles are meaningless, but COLOURS' - if account-wide - accessibility will be of huge benefit.

I think they are, like I can outfit change my alt with motif styles that my main has learned and the color pallet seems open. My alt just can't craft those armor styles.

Soulshine

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

1) people use and notice titles?

2) I thought achievements as a gauge of "can they do this hardmode" were already "useless" due to paid carry runs.

This is pretty much where I am with it.

The value of "earned" was completely thrown out by the practice being so widely accepted, so at this point in 8 yrs of playing they don't mean anything to me when I see them on others.

All of my own were actually earned, but I don't even use them anymore. I will continue to work my alts as before.

FantasticFreddie

I personally find this to be a bit of a let down. It removes the incentive and challenge to repeat content on my other toons.

I'd really like for either the titles to remain per toon, or for trifectas (trials, dungeons, arenas) to be excluded.

"Oh, you can just opt out!"

Yeah, but that's still not the same, is it?

gorky1

Serenez wrote: »

I am very pleased that Motifs will not be included in the account wide achievements as this could have game economy repercussions, as Motifs known affect drop rates of Master Writs etc.

I would also suggest excluding Master Angler from the account wide achievement as well. For those that have put in not just hours or days but months of their valuable time earning this on each character, it would negate all that hard work and time. That title that they have earned on all their characters is worth of a lot of respect in my opinion, would be meaningless if everyone could earn it on all characters. I remember a post on these forums of a player that captured the moment that each of their characters achieved this title. I have to say it was impressive and something imo to be proud of to earn as it took a lot of time and dedication to achieve that. With account wide achievements it would no longer carry that same meaning.

Although I am not a 'role-player' I do foresee a displeasure with the role players with account wide achievements, as some are very careful as to not get certain achievements on certain characters.

@ZOS_Kevin Solution - Make an option to opt in per character via the character log in screen. Click apply account wide achievements yes or no on a per character basis.

Not everyone will agree with me and that is fine. I both accept and expect that.

I disagree with the master angler part above. I've only done a little fishing on most of my 20 or so chars. I have too many to try to get Master Angler on them all.
On the other hand, I spent a VAAAAASSSSTTTTT majority of my time getting my chars all the various 30 delves, 30 bosses, xx dragons, etc kinds of quests done to get those achievements. Massive hours spent here, that others will get for free.

I'm OK with that. I saved some money on some motif's, just like those who fished got a lot of fish to skin for profit.

This change allows me to focus more on getting other things done in the game now. More win than loss IMHO.

CBixby

I like having all titles on one character and then disguising as a noob on alt toons. I worked so hard for multiple titles on multiple toons. I need a goal in a game otherwise I don’t [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

Xebov

Tandor wrote: »

I do agree, however, that the community is divided on this, and that is why it's odd for ZOS to have decided to implement it.

Its not odd at all, there are various reasons why the move makes complete sense:

• Many games use account wide achievments so ESO is more of an exception which confuses ppl
• While some ppl like Character based achievments its also one of the reasons ppl play less alts because they dont want to have stuff spread out.
• It saves Database space, if you have 18 characters on an account you have to store all achievment data of each character. Now you reduce this to 1 set per account

CBixby

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have wanted this for years, no longer will I be forced to cure my Vampire just to get a few Werewolf achievements.

Can you not use the armoury system for different builds? Build 1: vampire build 2: werewolf?

Can still be same toon.

I have one vampire dps and one non-vamp healer on same toon.

Jaraal

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I do however, like the idea of having 16 Grand Master Crafters overnight. That will save me millions in materials.

But they won't actually have the skills learned to actually be a GMC... They mat not have the trait knowledge, the motifs, etc...

I thought it was achievements that would be account wide.

Did I miss something?

That's the point. The character will have the title of "Grand Master Crafter", but have researched no traits, know no motifs, and can't do the things that a Grand Master Crafter can do.

That's not an achievement.... that's a title.

AScarlato

Since the game is incredibly large and it's already hard to find time to do everything once, let alone many times on alts, I prefer account-wide titles.

I don't find the complaints that "you did it on another character and can't possibly do it on your alt too" compelling. Most of this is more a timesink to re-do things than anything about prestige or difficulty.

Like other posters said, most people don't even read other people's titles or care. Also the fear-mongering over being "tricked" by a title seems implausible.

dinokstrunz

Achievements should be account wide but titles should NEVER be account wide. That's so dumb if so, not even WoW had lowbie characters running around with Kingslayers etc. Nothing will ever hold value in this game soon.

TempestM

valkyrie93 wrote: »

TempestM wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

What about pvp ranks tho

What about them? Alliance Rank is a separate bar

...You get achievements, achievement points and titles for reaching a new pvp rank. Wondering if those will be account wide too

Probably. But you won't get actual rank, which is shown separately near your nickname, and skill points, which are given for rank, not achievement, so there's no problem in this

Xebov

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Achievements should be account wide but titles should NEVER be account wide. That's so dumb if so, not even WoW had lowbie characters running around with Kingslayers etc. Nothing will ever hold value in this game soon.

Why shouldnt they be? There is no harm at all in having them available on an account at all. If someone managed to get Godslayer and want to have a level 3 character using the title why shouldnt they? After all they earned it.

tmbrinks

Jaraal wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

I do however, like the idea of having 16 Grand Master Crafters overnight. That will save me millions in materials.

But they won't actually have the skills learned to actually be a GMC... They mat not have the trait knowledge, the motifs, etc...

I thought it was achievements that would be account wide.

Did I miss something?

That's the point. The character will have the title of "Grand Master Crafter", but have researched no traits, know no motifs, and can't do the things that a Grand Master Crafter can do.

That's not an achievement.... that's a title.

There's a Grand Master Crafter achievement too... Which grants the title. That's how it works

Elsonso

Xebov wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Achievements should be account wide but titles should NEVER be account wide. That's so dumb if so, not even WoW had lowbie characters running around with Kingslayers etc. Nothing will ever hold value in this game soon.

Why shouldnt they be? There is no harm at all in having them available on an account at all. If someone managed to get Godslayer and want to have a level 3 character using the title why shouldnt they? After all they earned it.

Yup. In this game, they did. It only matters if the game is an RPG game, and then it would be applied to the character, not the player..

Remathilis

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Achievements should be account wide but titles should NEVER be account wide. That's so dumb if so, not even WoW had lowbie characters running around with Kingslayers etc. Nothing will ever hold value in this game soon.

Yet that lowbie can ride the Sunspire champion senche or wear the skin? Maybe collectables should be by character too then.

Serenez

You get Grand Master Crafter 'from' achievements. It is those Crafting Achievements that dictate Master Writ drops which have an impact on the economy. Some of these crafting achievements are being excluded from Account Wide achievements, I would guess for those reasons.

Achievements give some players a purpose, a goal, something to earn and be proud of. Although some Achievements may be insignificant, there are others that take so much time and effort and they imo should remain as individual character achievements. Selecting which ones to include and which ones to exclude, I hope will take much consideration by the Development team to maintain the integrity of these achievements earned.

Regarding my comment in a few posts above. This post below is what I was referencing above for Master Angler. This took this player it would appear 2 years to achieve this on all their toons. This is pre CP 2.0 and faster reel times. Mad respect I have for their dedication and I hope that the integrity of such an accomplishment will be maintained. There is a Youtube link within that showed the moment each character achieved it. I still have yet to earn this title on one character, although I am getting close. The feeling of accomplishment I can only imagine this player must have felt, I really don't want to die within the game. Not everyone cares about achievements in this way on multiple characters, however there are those that do.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/315328/i-got-master-angler-on-12-characters/p1

AshfieldLad

I’m all for this, currently I have 9 char’s my main(1st created) which has some dung titles and all of the crafting/ master angler etc and my tank which I created which has nearly all of the dung trifecta on but nothing else. I’m currently pigeon holed into playing one of these 2 characters so I don’t miss any achievements and it’s already annoying enough I have my titles split between two. I have a magplar and necro tank I really enjoy playing but I refuse to use them for anything I haven’t got already. Now I’ll be able to use different characters without worry of missing out on something I can’t or don’t want to repeat multiple times( it’s hard to get a full group to swap chars to repeat something you’ve already done). It’s a great change for me.

tmbrinks

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

Dojohoda

AVA titles better not be included.

guarstompemoji

tmbrinks wrote: »

An account overview for Achievements would allow all of those who want to see their total account progress to see it. While still allowing players who want that feeling of completion and accomplishment on individual characters to have that.

This change will likely take away from all those players who want to do things individually, while there exists an option to do this without taking away. (This is if it's as worded as was said on the stream... I hope to (insert your favorite deity here) they're just introducing an account overview and their wording was inaccurate)

The amount of accusations and disparaging comments directed towards those that want to keep the individuality of their characters is astounding to me, and frankly disheartening of the community as a whole.

I would get organized hate mail for adding slightly different color to text within a game, once.

The human brain can wire against change.

It will calm down after, though. Same with Google's icon change. Etc.

On another note, though, too.

As a support player, I am loving this. The raid lead wants my warden healer instead of my templar? Great! My necro? Awesome! I don't need to worry about stacking the clears on one character.

For roleplay, this is awesome! I want to earn the Lord or Lady title, then use that on a new character to play an estranged young and bumbling noble? Awesome!